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On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope.
Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'.
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On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger?
The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it.
On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'.
It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation.
It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that.
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On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible.
That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread).
I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside.
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On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection?
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On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection?
Yes, there are grainy and blurry video's and twitter screenshots probably posted at a reputable news sites like patriotsuncovered-dc.c0m It's what legacy media wont tell you. + Show Spoiler + I was joking, but here is some of the bullshit
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On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection?
I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim.
On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree.
Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside.
If the RNC doesn’t want to be perceived as such then maybe don’t censure members for supporting an investigation into January 6th?
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If you incite an insurection that leads to the deaths of people then its a crime and I think it should be. This can be easily reinforced if you are made aware of the insurrection that is occurring and refuse to stop it.
The idoicy of people that you can withdraw yourself from a committee that you helped set up after people were uncomfortable with the people being investigated doing the investigation and then declare it a political witch hunt just because your team is responsible for it is astounding.
Great to see book burning not getting any sort of pushback from the right. You love to see them just accept the facism.
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On February 05 2022 09:12 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection? I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim. Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree. Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be.
Are you familiar with the idea of consequences of ones actions? There wasn't a mass psychosis among all Trumpers within earshot of the capitol, there were people telling them it was a good idea to attack the capitol in an attempt to overturn the result of an election, including the loser of that election. You can't detach from a situation where you convinced someone to set off a bomb and kill 5 people, just because you told the lie and the person who blew shit up didn't know it was wrong. Someone knew it was wrong, probably including the people who did it anyway, and it happened regardless. There's not this magical space where any and all responsibility for the damage caused just disappears. Cause and effect still applies.
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On February 05 2022 10:40 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 09:12 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection? I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim. On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree. Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be. Are you familiar with the idea of consequences of ones actions? There wasn't a mass psychosis among all Trumpers within earshot of the capitol, there were people telling them it was a good idea to attack the capitol in an attempt to overturn the result of an election, including the loser of that election. You can't detach from a situation where you convinced someone to set off a bomb and kill 5 people, just because you told the lie and the person who blew shit up didn't know it was wrong. Someone knew it was wrong, probably including the people who did it anyway, and it happened regardless. There's not this magical space where any and all responsibility for the damage caused just disappears. Cause and effect still applies.
I don't think Trump or any other leadership figure incited the crowd to do what it did, the crowd acted on its own. Thats what the publicly avaiable evidence shows. So no one should charged for inciting the crowd. Aside from that, no other potential crimes were committed, unless trumps phone call to the Georgia secretary of state or whoever it was was a crime.
Trumps political opposition has been all too eager to put him behind bars ever since he won the 2016 election. And they're willing to bend and abuse the law to get that result. So I also don't trust those efforts generally.
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On February 05 2022 12:02 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 10:40 NewSunshine wrote:On February 05 2022 09:12 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection? I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim. On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree. Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be. Are you familiar with the idea of consequences of ones actions? There wasn't a mass psychosis among all Trumpers within earshot of the capitol, there were people telling them it was a good idea to attack the capitol in an attempt to overturn the result of an election, including the loser of that election. You can't detach from a situation where you convinced someone to set off a bomb and kill 5 people, just because you told the lie and the person who blew shit up didn't know it was wrong. Someone knew it was wrong, probably including the people who did it anyway, and it happened regardless. There's not this magical space where any and all responsibility for the damage caused just disappears. Cause and effect still applies. I don't think Trump or any other leadership figure incited the crowd to do what it did, the crowd acted on its own. Thats what the publicly avaiable evidence shows. So no one should charged for inciting the crowd. Aside from that, no other potential crimes were committed, unless trumps phone call to the Georgia secretary of state or whoever it was was a crime. Trumps political opposition has been all too eager to put him behind bars ever since he won the 2016 election. And they're willing to bend and abuse the law to get that result. So I also don't trust those efforts generally.
I don't know if you've listened to his event he held but it's really hard to misinterpret "trial by combat" "match down there" and more choice instructions given by him and others on what they wanted to happen.
Even if you thought it was weird bluster it's extremely hard to excuse holding the event so close to the capital while you are telling them lies about the election not being legitimate.
People have been trying to enforce laws on trump that he refuses to follow. The gop even today excuses Jan 6 as "legitimate political discourse". My man one day you need to stop and smell the fascism.
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On February 05 2022 09:12 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection? I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim. Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree. Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be. So there is no evidence that the Jan 6th commission is going after ordinary Americans that have nothing to do with the Jan 6th insurrection yet when 2 GOP members do not blindly walk in lockstep with the party and get censored you immediately believe them at their word and you can't see how the GOP's wording could possibly label a real insurrection as 'legit political discourse'?
I don't believe the GOP and I don't believe you. And neither should the NYT.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On February 05 2022 12:02 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 10:40 NewSunshine wrote:On February 05 2022 09:12 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 08:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. Is there any evidence that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who had nothing to do with the Jan 6 insurrection? I'm not aware of any, can't say I've followed the committee too closely though. But that is the RNC's claim. On February 05 2022 08:59 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 08:03 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 07:56 JimmiC wrote:On February 05 2022 07:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 06:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489703362572558338The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. Why would the RNC censure Cheney and Kinzinger? The censure probably isn't the best idea, but their argument is that the committee is being used as a political tool to go beyond just the attack on the capitol itself. I think the argument is that the dems are using it for 2022 election purposes. So they censure any Republicans participating in it. On February 05 2022 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2022 06:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 05 2022 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Texas is still having outages, but no, I don't suppose it's the same as when people were freezing to death in their living rooms as Ted Cruz Cruz'ed his way to Cancun. They just seem to have an endemic tree branch problem this year.
In other fun stuff, the RNC has censured Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for supporting the investigation into the January 6th Insurrection, citing the mobs of people threatening and carrying out violence, attacking police, trying to hunt down senators, and calling to hang Mike Pence as "legitimate political discourse". If that causes your brain to spin for a loop, especially after them bitching and moaning nonstop about BLM protests, I wouldn't blame you. But I am recalling the notion that politics and law are all about determining acceptable targets of violence, so it's starting to track. This is America, where one of your 2 major parties is a terrorist organization, and the other party is kinda cool with that. And that is what happens when you break lockstep with your fellow Republicans for even a moment, for even suggesting that your Dear Leader might be open to scrutiny. I assume you are referring to the NYT's misinformation on the RNC censure: The censure does not actually call the capitol attack "legitimate political discourse." It says the Jan 6 committee is "persecuting Americans who engaged in legitimate political discourse." The longstanding RNC argument against the committee is that the committee is going beyond just the capitol riot and persecuting Americans who believe in election fraud. So the NYT story, in failing to accurately report that argument, amounts to deliberate misinformation (which is funny because the Twitter employees who write the trending topics are currently parroting the NYT). Nothing new of course. The media sensationalizes the truth in order to increase its audience size. That defence only works if you actually believe the Jan 6th committee is beyond the scope of that attack on the US Constitution, which I have seen no indication of. They are investigating the event that organised the group that then attempted an insurrection. Which falls very much under that scope. Nor did the people organising said event engage in 'legitimate political discourse' unless you think organising an attack on the verification of the US Presidential election is 'political discourse'. It doesn't depend on what you believe because the NYT's claim is about what the RNC said. If the RNC did not say what the NYT claims, then the story is misinformation. It is legitimate political discourse to assert that there was election fraud, even if that assertion is ultimately wrong. I think the RNC argument is that the Jan 6 committee is going after regular Americans who did that. It is not legitimate political discourse when they know it is not true. Which of course they did the reason was to retain power not because they actually believed voter fraud. Hell they are still claiming it and anyone that is not deep in a very strange web of conspiracies knows it is not true, most of the claims were not is possible let alone plausible. That may be true of the people in leadership positions who propagated the election fraud claim. But there everyday Americans who sincerely believe there was election fraud. The RNC's claim is about them. My point is that the NYT misrepresented the RNC's claim. Which is misinformation that leads people to say things like "the Republican Party is a terrorist organization" (as we just saw in this thread). I mean really, the Republican party would not release a statement saying the capitol riot was legitimate discourse, all hyperbole about fascism and terrorism aside. Is what you are saying that we should hold the people in leadership accountable for the damage there willful lies are creating? Because if so I completely agree. Well lying to the public is not a crime and I don't think it should be. Are you familiar with the idea of consequences of ones actions? There wasn't a mass psychosis among all Trumpers within earshot of the capitol, there were people telling them it was a good idea to attack the capitol in an attempt to overturn the result of an election, including the loser of that election. You can't detach from a situation where you convinced someone to set off a bomb and kill 5 people, just because you told the lie and the person who blew shit up didn't know it was wrong. Someone knew it was wrong, probably including the people who did it anyway, and it happened regardless. There's not this magical space where any and all responsibility for the damage caused just disappears. Cause and effect still applies. I don't think Trump or any other leadership figure incited the crowd to do what it did, the crowd acted on its own. Thats what the publicly avaiable evidence shows. So no one should charged for inciting the crowd. Aside from that, no other potential crimes were committed, unless trumps phone call to the Georgia secretary of state or whoever it was was a crime. Trumps political opposition has been all too eager to put him behind bars ever since he won the 2016 election. And they're willing to bend and abuse the law to get that result. So I also don't trust those efforts generally.
Perhaps claiming the election was stolen and endlessly repeating it had something to do with it, despite no evidence and much to the contrary?
Far as I can tell the GOP would rather rebuke the minority of legislators who think this is a bad thing than try to rein in this nonsense.
The rationale of not persecuting ordinary Americans for a ‘legitimate belief’ doesn’t wash because how does an investigation do this?
If Cheney subpoenaed a bunch of Joe Schmoe’s based on their social media postings about the steal, then maybe that charge passes the smell test. Far as I can tell this is not the case.
January 6th could have been a positive straw breaking the camel’s back moment and the party could have pulled away from the path of madness, I actually thought they would but now they’re seemingly doubling down again.
For Trump and his base, of all things. In a sane world/country Trump should be in jail for something, or at the very least his reputation and political career absolutely dead in the water.
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If we talk about not recognizing election results as a deadly sin surely Stacey Abrams should receive the same treatment. Till this day she still refuses to admit defeat in the Georgia governor race claiming the race was rigged.
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On February 05 2022 23:12 gobbledydook wrote:
If we talk about not recognizing election results as a deadly sin surely Stacey Abrams should receive the same treatment. Till this day she still refuses to admit defeat in the Georgia governor race claiming the race was rigged.
Did she organize an armed insurgency to try to overturn the whole thing?
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I don't think Trump was competent enough to organize an armed insurrection. The rioters were definitely goaded by Trump but inciting a mob and organizing an insurrection are two different things.
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EPT
