Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On January 07 2021 09:06 Doublemint wrote: should have clarified, the "Clinton discussion", thats the one I am not interested in. who gives a fuck about them? Rs need new boogeymen that stick for realz, especially when radical liberal pastor warnock can win in a state like GA. /s
But her emails
Do you not understand the damage those emails have done to America. She could of ended America with those emails, never forget.
I know. solar winds hack was nothing in comparison, think of all the phishing that could have taken place in 33k DELETED EMAILS.
You're not interested in the Clinton discussion, only the little riffs on how her corruption seems quaint now. Do I have you right? Hillary Clinton acting above the law operating private servers to send classified information is one of the sickening acts of brazen "above the law" behavior that made Trump absolutely necessary in 2016.
But seriously, my party needs all the help it can get right now, so it needs reminders of the good old days when the media would downplay or ignore Democratic scandals and the American electorate said enough was enough.
On January 07 2021 09:21 Mohdoo wrote: I would put the odds over 50% of 25th being discussed right now. Pence with a 2 week presidency would be kind of funny.
No idea how reliable this is but
Also apparently Pence went over Trump's head and he was the one who called in the national guard.
I thought only the president had that power? No? Can the VP legally go over the head of the P when it comes to mobilizing the DC guard?
You think it would be Trump to call in the national guard? The same Trump who said "We will never give up, we will never concede" shortly beforehand which set off the entire mob? The same Trump who is still tweeting that the election was stolen? (Thankfully deleted and now blocked). Pence ordering the national guard is more realistic considering the mob is aiming to kill him. An act of self preservation.
On January 07 2021 09:21 Mohdoo wrote: I would put the odds over 50% of 25th being discussed right now. Pence with a 2 week presidency would be kind of funny.
Pence order the national guard(?), everyone is saying the president does that????
Unless the president is unavailable, in which case, the VP can. From what I'm reading no one could get in touch with Trump outside of his inner circle even for him to tell them no. So it is possible.
I have no fondness for the efforts to shame you into compliance or whatever it is. It really is not what your country needs right now.
I actually entirely disagree here. I don't think people try to force him into compliance, they try to force him to actually reflect. The reason he gets hammered on is despite this entire shit show, he still goes back to whataboutism, talking about how bad Clinton was and how she deserved to lose and whatnot.
This "piling on" is entirely of his own making by refusing to accept that trump was a mistake, and that it was ALWAYS obvious.
I bet you the second people actually would for a split second believe that he thinks Trump was a mistake (which he doesn't), people would slow down "the pilening".
He doesn't think Trump was a mistake against Hillary, but he admitted several pages ago that retrospectively, Trump was a mistake against Biden.
.. and it doesn't sound odd to you, at all?
"I'm okay with the obviously insane person winning against Hillary, but now that the obviously insane person is losing, now it's a mistake - only that part though"?
I'm sorry. This was always going to happen. People knew BEFORE he was running for president that he's a conman, and living in a different reality. For people a bit slower than the norm, that was immediately obvious straight after the inauguration when he started inventing "facts".
Fact is, trump was always a mistake. There's no "degradation" of trumps mind, this is trump being trump. There's no "it's a mistake now, but wasn't back then".
edit: to be a bit clearer: claiming the necessity of hindsight in regards to trump is stupid. The only point you're making is that you didn't give a shit beforehand. At best. At worst, you were simply okay with it because it was "your team winning".
It's a mistake now because he lost, and that's as far as it goes. Danglars would be happily on the Trump train if he won, because he delivers the results. He's described him as one of the best Republican presidents in history in the past because of his seating of conservative judges on the supreme court. All of the things he supported him for in the past are still there, it's just he's now done exactly what we all knew he would and done something so indefensible in defeat that he has to begrudgingly condemn him. Once. And then go back to deflection and the usual Danglars Shuffle.
Back in the day, Democracy meant that judges would craft legislation, and the electorate had to sit on their hands with 9 legislators in black robes. I'm not sorry that Trump was the instrument of a major change in the court. I'm pleased and confirmed in my posts that his justices were the ones throwing out meritless lawsuits from Trump lawyers, much to the constitution of their appointer, Trump (shitposters today may have trouble admitting they predicted his judges would hand Trump the election). That act is a major help in the coming years; where actual disagreements on policy can't only be executive order, bureaucratic department, memorandum, or judges. It's a major, better playing field.
I disagree with all the bad-faith framing and bad assumptions you put in, but at least you sprinkled in some truth. Trump could've sailed out of that White House not tweeting or doing one thing after November, 2020, and he'd have been somewhat successful. Tell me he's a one-term president at the end of 2016, but in exchange, I get 3 originalist judges on the court, and I'd sign that deal any day of the week. Maybe he's only known for his actions in the last two months in office, maybe that's the historical perspective, and still it can't invalidate that simple truth.
On January 07 2021 09:06 Doublemint wrote: should have clarified, the "Clinton discussion", thats the one I am not interested in. who gives a fuck about them? Rs need new boogeymen that stick for realz, especially when radical liberal pastor warnock can win in a state like GA. /s
But her emails
Do you not understand the damage those emails have done to America. She could of ended America with those emails, never forget.
I know. solar winds hack was nothing in comparison, think of all the phishing that could have taken place in 33k DELETED EMAILS.
I for one think there needs to be at least another 30 investigations at least. The 15 or so that they did on her where clearly not enough. Make her testify for a week straight. The whole day testimony was clearly to easy for Clinton.
On January 07 2021 09:06 Doublemint wrote: should have clarified, the "Clinton discussion", thats the one I am not interested in. who gives a fuck about them? Rs need new boogeymen that stick for realz, especially when radical liberal pastor warnock can win in a state like GA. /s
But her emails
Do you not understand the damage those emails have done to America. She could of ended America with those emails, never forget.
I know. solar winds hack was nothing in comparison, think of all the phishing that could have taken place in 33k DELETED EMAILS.
You're not interested in the Clinton discussion, only the little riffs on how her corruption seems quaint now. Do I have you right? Hillary Clinton acting above the law operating private servers to send classified information is one of the sickening acts of brazen "above the law" behavior that made Trump absolutely necessary in 2016.
But seriously, my party needs all the help it can get right now, so it needs reminders of the good old days when the media would downplay or ignore Democratic scandals and the American electorate said enough was enough.
every SoS before her did the same... the fault is systemic. and now would you be so kind and tell me how many people in Trump's orbit AND cabinet were caught doing the same. I just lost count it was so many - be a sweetheart would you?
and yeah - mainstream media totally ignored that democratic scandal LOOL.
your attempt at humor falls flat and it's tiring please stop obsessing about the CLINTON CRIME FAMILY.
Bad faith? Yet here you are talking about Hillary Clinton 4 years on, on the night when the results of the election is certfied, a mob insitgated by Trump broke into Capitol building.
On January 07 2021 09:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Bad faith? Yet here you are talking about Hillary Clinton 4 years on, on the night when the results of the election is certfied, a mob insitgated by Trump broke into Capitol building.
I disagree with all the bad-faith framing and bad assumptions you put in, but at least you sprinkled in some truth. Trump could've sailed out of that White House not tweeting or doing one thing after November, 2020, and he'd have been somewhat successful. Tell me he's a one-term president at the end of 2016, but in exchange, I get 3 originalist judges on the court, and I'd sign that deal any day of the week. Maybe he's only known for his actions in the last two months in office, maybe that's the historical perspective, and still it can't invalidate that simple truth.
And if you add, to be not extreme, 10% of covid deaths due to him being unable to simply say "stay safe, protect yourself and others, try to reduce your social interactions and be responsible" ? (10% still means nearly 30,000dead americans) Or just the alleged 700people dead to covid from attending rallies? Or just the one that died today?
Those three judges are worth how much exactly? That's what supporting an irresponsible fuck for selfish reasons get you.
I have no fondness for the efforts to shame you into compliance or whatever it is. It really is not what your country needs right now.
I actually entirely disagree here. I don't think people try to force him into compliance, they try to force him to actually reflect. The reason he gets hammered on is despite this entire shit show, he still goes back to whataboutism, talking about how bad Clinton was and how she deserved to lose and whatnot.
This "piling on" is entirely of his own making by refusing to accept that trump was a mistake, and that it was ALWAYS obvious.
I bet you the second people actually would for a split second believe that he thinks Trump was a mistake (which he doesn't), people would slow down "the pilening".
He doesn't think Trump was a mistake against Hillary, but he admitted several pages ago that retrospectively, Trump was a mistake against Biden.
.. and it doesn't sound odd to you, at all?
"I'm okay with the obviously insane person winning against Hillary, but now that the obviously insane person is losing, now it's a mistake - only that part though"?
I'm sorry. This was always going to happen. People knew BEFORE he was running for president that he's a conman, and living in a different reality. For people a bit slower than the norm, that was immediately obvious straight after the inauguration when he started inventing "facts".
Fact is, trump was always a mistake. There's no "degradation" of trumps mind, this is trump being trump. There's no "it's a mistake now, but wasn't back then".
edit: to be a bit clearer: claiming the necessity of hindsight in regards to trump is stupid. The only point you're making is that you didn't give a shit beforehand. At best. At worst, you were simply okay with it because it was "your team winning".
It's a mistake now because he lost, and that's as far as it goes. Danglars would be happily on the Trump train if he won, because he delivers the results. He's described him as one of the best Republican presidents in history in the past because of his seating of conservative judges on the supreme court. All of the things he supported him for in the past are still there, it's just he's now done exactly what we all knew he would and done something so indefensible in defeat that he has to begrudgingly condemn him. Once. And then go back to deflection and the usual Danglars Shuffle.
Back in the day, Democracy meant that judges would craft legislation, and the electorate had to sit on their hands with 9 legislators in black robes. I'm not sorry that Trump was the instrument of a major change in the court. I'm pleased and confirmed in my posts that his justices were the ones throwing out meritless lawsuits from Trump lawyers, much to the constitution of their appointer, Trump (shitposters today may have trouble admitting they predicted his judges would hand Trump the election). That act is a major help in the coming years; where actual disagreements on policy can't only be executive order, bureaucratic department, memorandum, or judges. It's a major, better playing field.
I disagree with all the bad-faith framing and bad assumptions you put in, but at least you sprinkled in some truth. Trump could've sailed out of that White House not tweeting or doing one thing after November, 2020, and he'd have been somewhat successful. Tell me he's a one-term president at the end of 2016, but in exchange, I get 3 originalist judges on the court, and I'd sign that deal any day of the week. Maybe he's only known for his actions in the last two months in office, maybe that's the historical perspective, and still it can't invalidate that simple truth.
Since the bolded statement didn't actually happen, it seems like you got played but haven't acknowledged it yet.
On January 07 2021 06:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: tbh, I would have been curious to see xdaunt's response to post-election Trump.
Now people have to declare me combative and all that because they miss their favorite punching bag.
Yeah, I would've appreciated hearing his thoughts, but it is pretty rich hearing it said from someone in admin.
I don't really see any discrepancy between thinking someone could've had an interesting opinion on topic x and thinking that same person had no interest in being a part of our community and for that reason became toxic to the point where keeping him around was pointless. I did support the ban of xdaunt, but it was less because of his political opinions (I've fairly consistently argued for keeping multiple points of view around and I've also fairly consistently defended you) and more because he didn't seem to want to post in a civil manner at all. There's very little I agree with you politically on, but I still want to have you around, and I have no fondness for the efforts to shame you into compliance or whatever it is. It really is not what your country needs right now.
I dislike hearing the problem was his lack of a civil manner, when today featured posters saying I personally wanted a violent riot on the capitol and a member of your moderation team calling me a "spineless Quisling" today. I can grant you the perspective that you aren't looking favorably on such things, but you're still a part of the team that imposes different rules for different ideological points of views. I just don't think what you wish to be true stands up to the test of time. Call it a blind eye to toxicity. I've just chosen to cease responding to certain shitposters at almost all times simply because of their conduct in the forum.
I'd be lying if I didn't add that this was mixed up in almost every single poster in my side of the political aisle being banned or stopping posting regularly over the course of the ~10 years with you guys.
The same moderator who called you a Quisling today once called me a rapist in the old megathread. I think not responding to the people you find unreasonable is the wisest course of action.
*I'm not really interested in having a discussion about danglars with people that aren't danglars, and I didn't intend that previous line as an attack on Kwark, whom I think is a fantastic poster most of the time. But I sometimes feel the need to play the role of 'fringe-person-whisperer' because I feel posters on the fringes frequently have their opinions misrepresented by people near the center. I want this thread to be a source of information on american politics, this includes having posters around that might give some insight into why 74 million people voted for Trump. And I genuinely do not believe that 74 million Americans are fascists. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and if someone does believe that having voted for Trump means you are a fascist or ignorant, I can both see where that person is coming from and disagree at the same time.
On January 07 2021 09:40 farvacola wrote: Melania's chief of staff and former WH Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham has resigned in protest of today's events.
This is actually worse because it implies that she had a line and that everything up until now was, for her, acceptable. I genuinely have less of a problem with zealots who would lay down their lives for Trump than people who draw the line here because at least zealots don't pretend to have morality beyond serving the great leader.
On January 07 2021 09:06 Doublemint wrote: should have clarified, the "Clinton discussion", thats the one I am not interested in. who gives a fuck about them? Rs need new boogeymen that stick for realz, especially when radical liberal pastor warnock can win in a state like GA. /s
But her emails
Do you not understand the damage those emails have done to America. She could of ended America with those emails, never forget.
I know. solar winds hack was nothing in comparison, think of all the phishing that could have taken place in 33k DELETED EMAILS.
You're not interested in the Clinton discussion, only the little riffs on how her corruption seems quaint now. Do I have you right? Hillary Clinton acting above the law operating private servers to send classified information is one of the sickening acts of brazen "above the law" behavior that made Trump absolutely necessary in 2016.
But seriously, my party needs all the help it can get right now, so it needs reminders of the good old days when the media would downplay or ignore Democratic scandals and the American electorate said enough was enough.
Not necessarily replying to you in particular but spring-boarding from this.
This is the end of Trump, thankfully. But it is remarkably foolish to think that the conditions that allowed such a character to win a primary and the presidency are just going to go away. He lost, but it was quite close, and his party still has more seats now than they predicted on Nov. 2. And arguable it's Trump's personal behavior that cost them GA when voters normally vote for divided government.
For the media to think that they can go back to the "no scandals" Obama era is mistaken. Not everyone upset with the way they are being ignored is an a-hole carrying a confederate flag in theUnited States capitol (screw those people). Those people are actual deplorables. The millions Hillary lambasted are still around, but it appears they are still going to be ignored. Everyone is positioning, including twitter, whose been waiting for a long time to extend their reach further.
Think I've said it before, but Trump is a symptom not a cause. The next few years will have a weak, feeble, and incompetent president fighting with his left flank that still likes shouting at politicians in restaurants... All while pretending he can bring us back the good old days when we just ignored people we didn't like. It isn't going to turn out the way he thinks or anyone who moved Heaven and Earth to get him in there thinks.
In 2020, Clinton was still declaring her loss illegitimate. She was given interviews where she repeated it. And nobody cared about accepting the results then or now. Like I said, tell 64 million Americans that the real story of the election was Russian interference and not their combined voices. But when people are intent on making 2016-2020 Trump about his final months, you better be ready to retell all the lies about why you lost the 2016 election. Nothing has changed with you bunch.
Armed violence in the Capitol building is still a major step up from refusing to admit you lost fair and square (what you might call, Democracy-undermining questioning the legitimacy of elections). Trump should've walked out the door having kept a couple major campaign promises, and lost Georgia by less than Stacey Abrams. He took it up a notch and he should be impeached and removed for doing so. But I've already said quite a bit on that subject already.
On January 07 2021 09:06 Doublemint wrote: should have clarified, the "Clinton discussion", thats the one I am not interested in. who gives a fuck about them? Rs need new boogeymen that stick for realz, especially when radical liberal pastor warnock can win in a state like GA. /s
But her emails
Do you not understand the damage those emails have done to America. She could of ended America with those emails, never forget.
I know. solar winds hack was nothing in comparison, think of all the phishing that could have taken place in 33k DELETED EMAILS.
You're not interested in the Clinton discussion, only the little riffs on how her corruption seems quaint now. Do I have you right? Hillary Clinton acting above the law operating private servers to send classified information is one of the sickening acts of brazen "above the law" behavior that made Trump absolutely necessary in 2016.
But seriously, my party needs all the help it can get right now, so it needs reminders of the good old days when the media would downplay or ignore Democratic scandals and the American electorate said enough was enough.
Not necessarily replying to you in particular but spring-boarding from this.
This is the end of Trump, thankfully. But it is remarkably foolish to think that the conditions that allowed such a character to win a primary and the presidency is just going to die. He lost, but it was quite close, and his party still has more seats now than they predicted on Nov. 2. And arguable it's Trump's personal behavior that cost them GA when voters normally vote for divided government.
For the media to think that they can go back to the "no scandals" Obama era is mistaken. Not everyone upset with the way they are being ignored is an a-hole carrying a confederate flag in theUnited States capitol (screw those people). Those people are actual deplorables. The millions upon Hillary lambasted are still around, but it appears they are still going to be ignored. Everyone is positioning, including twitter, whose been waiting for a long time to extend their reach further.
Think I've said it before, but Trump is a symptom not a cause. The next few years will have a weak, feeble, and incompetent president fighting with his left flank that still likes shouting at politicians in restaurants... All while pretending he can bring us back the good old days when we just ignored people we didn't like. It isn't going to turn out the way he thinks or anyone who moved Heaven and Earth to get him in there thinks.
This is not the end for Trump, he will carry 20-30% of his base going forward into whatever media venture he slurps up to.
I do think he will fizzle out year by year up to 2024 and will have a disastrous attempt to run, where even the fringe members of the republicans will be hesitant
EPT
