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On April 18 2020 06:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:31 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:16 Zambrah wrote:
Progressives would be okay branching out into another political party (and myself and others are likely to vote Third Party for President in the general election), but if you haven't noticed the idea of not lumping ourselves into the Democrats is something that gets us blamed for Trump being elected, and called unreasonable, and generally gets us lambasted by the people who say they need us but also don't want anything to do with what we want.
Kind of feels like a shitty position tbh. If it wasnt for people like AOC and Ilhan Omar I would've given up and just committed to leaving the US to it's ruin. No left-leaning person with an ounce of decency should vote for Biden until the allegations against him have been investigated thoroughly. You can't pull the song and dance you pulled with Kavanaugh and then not do it with your Presidential Candidate. Which isn't a dig at you, if anything it's support. Biden doesn't deserve your vote yet. There are more then 1 (or 2) possible candidates for the Supreme Court. There were a plethera of choices that were not Kavanaugh. Barring something massive either Trump or Biden will be the next President. Don't forget that most people here didn't want Biden during the primary but the election has now become a binary choice between Biden and Trump. Could argue they had a binary choice with Biden and Bernie and Democrats as a party think Biden is the lesser evil between him and Bernie and people that don't agree don't belong in that party. Yes but then your arguing against the 'party' and 'Americans' in general which are not on this forum. Looked to me like most people here on TL preferred Bernie or another candidate over Biden. But he didn't win, so now the choice is between Trump or Biden. I feel like this has gotten a little lost in the discussion. Really I'm arguing those people should stop being loyal to that abusive party. The people that prefer Biden to Bernie are as much a lost cause as well-informed Trump supporters imo.
Your line of arguing could give trump another term if all leftist would follow the same line.
This is why i sometimes doubt your real position,you are arguing for a devision of the opposition against trump which in the end benefits trump and not the hard left nor the moderate democrats and i think you are smart enough to see this.
The only realistic way for the hard left to gain influence is to start from the ground and slowly try to build up. Anything else only re-inforces the status quo in the end.
A slow build up is possible,sanders made senator after all and warren also made some grounds (though not as hard left as sanders). The voice of the left in the usa is stronger then it has ever been in history (even though still pretty weak overall)
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On April 18 2020 14:54 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 06:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:31 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:16 Zambrah wrote:
Progressives would be okay branching out into another political party (and myself and others are likely to vote Third Party for President in the general election), but if you haven't noticed the idea of not lumping ourselves into the Democrats is something that gets us blamed for Trump being elected, and called unreasonable, and generally gets us lambasted by the people who say they need us but also don't want anything to do with what we want.
Kind of feels like a shitty position tbh. If it wasnt for people like AOC and Ilhan Omar I would've given up and just committed to leaving the US to it's ruin. No left-leaning person with an ounce of decency should vote for Biden until the allegations against him have been investigated thoroughly. You can't pull the song and dance you pulled with Kavanaugh and then not do it with your Presidential Candidate. Which isn't a dig at you, if anything it's support. Biden doesn't deserve your vote yet. There are more then 1 (or 2) possible candidates for the Supreme Court. There were a plethera of choices that were not Kavanaugh. Barring something massive either Trump or Biden will be the next President. Don't forget that most people here didn't want Biden during the primary but the election has now become a binary choice between Biden and Trump. Could argue they had a binary choice with Biden and Bernie and Democrats as a party think Biden is the lesser evil between him and Bernie and people that don't agree don't belong in that party. Yes but then your arguing against the 'party' and 'Americans' in general which are not on this forum. Looked to me like most people here on TL preferred Bernie or another candidate over Biden. But he didn't win, so now the choice is between Trump or Biden. I feel like this has gotten a little lost in the discussion. Really I'm arguing those people should stop being loyal to that abusive party. The people that prefer Biden to Bernie are as much a lost cause as well-informed Trump supporters imo. Your line of arguing could give trump another term if all leftist would follow the same line. This is why i sometimes doubt your real position,you are arguing for a devision of the opposition against trump which in the end benefits trump and not the hard left nor the moderate democrats and i think you are smart enough to see this. The only realistic way for the hard left to gain influence is to start from the ground and slowly try to build up. Anything else only re-inforces the status quo in the end. A slow build up is possible,sanders made senator after all and warren also made some grounds (though not as hard left as sanders). The voice of the left in the usa is stronger then it has ever been in history (even though still pretty weak overall)
Your line of arguing gave us Trump in the first place as far as I can tell. This is why I doubt the strategic soundness of this kind of incrementalism. You mention Bernie Sanders, so lets use him as a reference point. He began his political career in 1971, during the Nixon presidency.
Nixon signed into existence the EPA, advocated what is basically the ACA (shot down by Democrats as not enough), created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), raised social security benefits, introduced a minimum tax on the wealthy and argued for a guaranteed minimum income for the poor.
Sanders at that time was calling for the CIA to be abolished and supportive of Castro in Cuba.
Now, Nixon hated himself some Black people, Hippies, and definitely Communists, but I'll be damned if he didn't have more significant landmark left accomplishments than Obama (which has been touted as the liberal high tide since). Especially when you consider Obama's one claim to fame was little more than a rehashed and microwaved version of Nixon's healthcare plan that Democrats rejected as woefully insufficient 40 years before they said it was going too far. (and might not survive Trump's Supreme Court anyway).
Incrementalism and compromise with Republicans has only made Republicans more extreme and Democrats less progressively bold than just 50 years ago imo and as the history shows us. Makes me think the people arguing we should this incrementalism (that seems to be going backwards) actually want that to continue sometimes.
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On April 18 2020 09:50 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:31 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:16 Zambrah wrote:
Progressives would be okay branching out into another political party (and myself and others are likely to vote Third Party for President in the general election), but if you haven't noticed the idea of not lumping ourselves into the Democrats is something that gets us blamed for Trump being elected, and called unreasonable, and generally gets us lambasted by the people who say they need us but also don't want anything to do with what we want.
Kind of feels like a shitty position tbh. If it wasnt for people like AOC and Ilhan Omar I would've given up and just committed to leaving the US to it's ruin. No left-leaning person with an ounce of decency should vote for Biden until the allegations against him have been investigated thoroughly. You can't pull the song and dance you pulled with Kavanaugh and then not do it with your Presidential Candidate. Which isn't a dig at you, if anything it's support. Biden doesn't deserve your vote yet. There are more then 1 (or 2) possible candidates for the Supreme Court. There were a plethera of choices that were not Kavanaugh. Barring something massive either Trump or Biden will be the next President. Don't forget that most people here didn't want Biden during the primary but the election has now become a binary choice between Biden and Trump. In a choice between two possible sexual predators I'm walking away, as should anyone else. SURELY you recognise that this has to be investigated? You seriously think this isn't going to be used against him? Should it be investigated? Yes
Should Biden probably not be the candidate? Yes
Walking away doesn't change that one of them will be President.
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If Biden probably shouldn't be the candidate why not have a different candidate? Not like the primaries would even be over if Bernie was still in it, so why not open it back up, have all of the dropped out candidates come back, and then have one day where every state has the chance to re-vote?
Logistical nightmare Im sure, but it'd be nice to see.
I'd settle for just shoving in a non-rapey corporate democrat stooge, tbh.
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On April 18 2020 18:12 Zambrah wrote:
If Biden probably shouldn't be the candidate why not have a different candidate? Not like the primaries would even be over if Bernie was still in it, so why not open it back up, have all of the dropped out candidates come back, and then have one day where every state has the chance to re-vote?
Logistical nightmare Im sure, but it'd be nice to see.
I'd settle for just shoving in a non-rapey corporate democrat stooge, tbh. I love how quickly opinion has flipped from "Damn the Democrats for not having a proper democratic primary" to "fuck democracy".
So your position is now that the DNC should just get rid of the primary and pick whatever candidate they feel is best? Because the people can clearly not be trusted not to nominate an (alleged) rapist.
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On April 18 2020 18:12 Zambrah wrote:
If Biden probably shouldn't be the candidate why not have a different candidate? Not like the primaries would even be over if Bernie was still in it, so why not open it back up, have all of the dropped out candidates come back, and then have one day where every state has the chance to re-vote?
Logistical nightmare Im sure, but it'd be nice to see.
I'd settle for just shoving in a non-rapey corporate democrat stooge, tbh.
They already have a logistical nightmare in that Democrats are going to have to do one (or a combination) of 3 things to make Biden the nominee
1. Pressure people to vote for Biden amid the pandemic (more than they did in Illinois and obviously disenfranchising people)
2. Change the convention/rules to make Biden the nominee.
3. Nominate him on a second ballot where all the candidates already said they'd be okay with someone other than the person with a plurality of delegates getting the nomination.
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On April 18 2020 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 18:12 Zambrah wrote:
If Biden probably shouldn't be the candidate why not have a different candidate? Not like the primaries would even be over if Bernie was still in it, so why not open it back up, have all of the dropped out candidates come back, and then have one day where every state has the chance to re-vote?
Logistical nightmare Im sure, but it'd be nice to see.
I'd settle for just shoving in a non-rapey corporate democrat stooge, tbh. They already have a logistical nightmare in that Democrats are going to have to do one (or a combination) of 3 things to make Biden the nominee 1. Pressure people to vote for Biden amid the pandemic (more than they did in Illinois and obviously disenfranchising people) 2. Change the convention/rules to make Biden the nominee. 3. Nominate him on a second ballot where all the candidates already said they'd be okay with someone other than the person with a plurality of delegates getting the nomination.
You just don't change the rules of an election in the middle of it. The Democratic consequences are simply too dramatic.
You have a fake president who is scrambling to shift the blame and avoid responsability for the Corona fiasco (compared to many other countries, including Russia) and you still try to fight the only person who can get him out of office?
I can't believe it, it is pragmatism at it's purest and most damaging.
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On April 18 2020 16:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 14:54 pmh wrote:On April 18 2020 06:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:31 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:16 Zambrah wrote:
Progressives would be okay branching out into another political party (and myself and others are likely to vote Third Party for President in the general election), but if you haven't noticed the idea of not lumping ourselves into the Democrats is something that gets us blamed for Trump being elected, and called unreasonable, and generally gets us lambasted by the people who say they need us but also don't want anything to do with what we want.
Kind of feels like a shitty position tbh. If it wasnt for people like AOC and Ilhan Omar I would've given up and just committed to leaving the US to it's ruin. No left-leaning person with an ounce of decency should vote for Biden until the allegations against him have been investigated thoroughly. You can't pull the song and dance you pulled with Kavanaugh and then not do it with your Presidential Candidate. Which isn't a dig at you, if anything it's support. Biden doesn't deserve your vote yet. There are more then 1 (or 2) possible candidates for the Supreme Court. There were a plethera of choices that were not Kavanaugh. Barring something massive either Trump or Biden will be the next President. Don't forget that most people here didn't want Biden during the primary but the election has now become a binary choice between Biden and Trump. Could argue they had a binary choice with Biden and Bernie and Democrats as a party think Biden is the lesser evil between him and Bernie and people that don't agree don't belong in that party. Yes but then your arguing against the 'party' and 'Americans' in general which are not on this forum. Looked to me like most people here on TL preferred Bernie or another candidate over Biden. But he didn't win, so now the choice is between Trump or Biden. I feel like this has gotten a little lost in the discussion. Really I'm arguing those people should stop being loyal to that abusive party. The people that prefer Biden to Bernie are as much a lost cause as well-informed Trump supporters imo. Your line of arguing could give trump another term if all leftist would follow the same line. This is why i sometimes doubt your real position,you are arguing for a devision of the opposition against trump which in the end benefits trump and not the hard left nor the moderate democrats and i think you are smart enough to see this. The only realistic way for the hard left to gain influence is to start from the ground and slowly try to build up. Anything else only re-inforces the status quo in the end. A slow build up is possible,sanders made senator after all and warren also made some grounds (though not as hard left as sanders). The voice of the left in the usa is stronger then it has ever been in history (even though still pretty weak overall) Your line of arguing gave us Trump in the first place as far as I can tell. This is why I doubt the strategic soundness of this kind of incrementalism. You mention Bernie Sanders, so lets use him as a reference point. He began his political career in 1971, during the Nixon presidency. Nixon signed into existence the EPA, advocated what is basically the ACA (shot down by Democrats as not enough), created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), raised social security benefits, introduced a minimum tax on the wealthy and argued for a guaranteed minimum income for the poor. Sanders at that time was calling for the CIA to be abolished and supportive of Castro in Cuba. Now, Nixon hated himself some Black people, Hippies, and definitely Communists, but I'll be damned if he didn't have more significant landmark left accomplishments than Obama (which has been touted as the liberal high tide since). Especially when you consider Obama's one claim to fame was little more than a rehashed and microwaved version of Nixon's healthcare plan that Democrats rejected as woefully insufficient 40 years before they said it was going too far. (and might not survive Trump's Supreme Court anyway). Incrementalism and compromise with Republicans has only made Republicans more extreme and Democrats less progressively bold than just 50 years ago imo and as the history shows us. Makes me think the people arguing we should this incrementalism (that seems to be going backwards) actually want that to continue sometimes.
I dont know,sanders would be my preferred candidate but he didnt make it and biden got the nomination fair and square (2016 was different in this regard). It is what it is and there isnt much to change that. I dont fully understand why sanders did drop out already btw as imo he still had some chance to win but he did and now we are here with biden as the candidate. Biden isnt a horrible candidate,he has a good chance to beat trump in november. Its still the lesser of 2 evils.
Like there is this saying:shoot for the stars and you might end up on the moon. But that saying doesnt go for politics i think,shoot for the stars and you might never leave orbit would be a better analogy when it comes to the progressive left in politics.
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So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation?
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On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation?
Because American elections aren't about truth.
Trump supporters will go to literally any length to excuse his failures during the pandemic.
I see it across social media constantly.
Republicans don't want to lose. Plain and simple. They sold their integrity years ago and their votes are set in stone. Trump could literally start throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live and they wouldn't change their vote.
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Northern Ireland25385 Posts
On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation?
Teflon Trump, nothing sticks to this guy.
If parallel reality Trump was running against this reality’s Trump can you imagine the debates and the Twitter spats?
Back to this reality surely some of this must? There is definite anger here against the Tories and the impact of austerity on the NHS, as to this being sustained/that anger spreading to people who were intending to vote Trump I don’t know.
There is something of a wartime mentality at present it seems so that is probably acting as some kind of shield.
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On April 18 2020 04:01 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 03:20 Logo wrote:
The trolly problem is incredibly dumb. But to entertain the analogy for a second here is the situation...
US Leftists:
* Don't build that trolley it will kill people
* If you build that trolley you will break the lever so we can't stop it going down the bad path
* We are screaming that your actions are building a trolley that will kill people in large numbers
* We are outright telling you the trolley actions you are taking are dangerous and we want no part in this scenario.
* We've dedicated massive resources to prevent you from building this trolley in order to advert a catastrophe.
* We have actual evidence that you are intentionally building this death trolley to avoid a loss of power and money. Please stop.
Moderate Response:
Oops, well please buy a ticket for our trolley so maybe you can steer it down the correct path. If you do we'll just keep building the same trolley because it keeps selling out for some reason. Will you actually ever outgrow this childish worldview where you're the enlightened good guy who has all the answers, all your opponents just want to do evil things and harm people rather than accepting that simply not everyone is on board with your idea of what the good life looks like, and that in the real world there are multitudes of interests, many of which are legitimate and which need to be reconciled? Does the US left not even have an ounce for some sort of epistemic humility and can consider that they may not actually be right? Is that a notion that occasionally occurs to people who unironically believe this stuff and are older than 16? Just look at the UK if you want to know what happens if you actually run someone who believes this nonsense. They got the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher.
Bringing up the labour party is amazing. Just amazing levels of bad faith.
Labour lost big because a significant part of their own party leadership intentionally sabotaged their candidate. That's not even conspiracy theory, those emails have been leaked. There's a fair shot 2017 Corbyn wins without the own part sabotage.
And no I will not abandoned my "childish" ideal that people should... uh... not die to preventable diseases and not be pushed into a massive climate induced mass migration.
Sorry I think those are important and do not need some sort of subtle touch in fighting for those things.
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On April 18 2020 18:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 18:12 Zambrah wrote:
If Biden probably shouldn't be the candidate why not have a different candidate? Not like the primaries would even be over if Bernie was still in it, so why not open it back up, have all of the dropped out candidates come back, and then have one day where every state has the chance to re-vote?
Logistical nightmare Im sure, but it'd be nice to see.
I'd settle for just shoving in a non-rapey corporate democrat stooge, tbh. I love how quickly opinion has flipped from "Damn the Democrats for not having a proper democratic primary" to "fuck democracy". So your position is now that the DNC should just get rid of the primary and pick whatever candidate they feel is best? Because the people can clearly not be trusted not to nominate an (alleged) rapist.
It's amazing how someone can see several sentences of text, read one of those sentences, and pretend the rest don't exist.
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On April 18 2020 21:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation? Because American elections aren't about truth. Trump supporters will go to literally any length to excuse his failures during the pandemic. I see it across social media constantly. Republicans don't want to lose. Plain and simple. They sold their integrity years ago and their votes are set in stone. Trump could literally start throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live and they wouldn't change their vote.
Democrats would vote for someone "throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live" as long as he threw them in slower than the other guy. Not exactly a level of integrity Republicans should be jealous of.
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United States24683 Posts
On April 19 2020 04:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 21:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation? Because American elections aren't about truth. Trump supporters will go to literally any length to excuse his failures during the pandemic. I see it across social media constantly. Republicans don't want to lose. Plain and simple. They sold their integrity years ago and their votes are set in stone. Trump could literally start throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live and they wouldn't change their vote. Democrats would vote for someone "throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live" as long as he threw them in slower than the other guy. Not exactly a level of integrity Republicans should be jealous of.
What is the evidence which leads you to this conclusion? I imagine if things got that bad, the democrats would replace the candidate with someone less bad. Extrapolation has limits.
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On April 18 2020 13:13 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 12:46 Nevuk wrote:On April 18 2020 12:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 10:24 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2020 09:50 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2020 05:31 iamthedave wrote:On April 18 2020 05:16 Zambrah wrote:
Progressives would be okay branching out into another political party (and myself and others are likely to vote Third Party for President in the general election), but if you haven't noticed the idea of not lumping ourselves into the Democrats is something that gets us blamed for Trump being elected, and called unreasonable, and generally gets us lambasted by the people who say they need us but also don't want anything to do with what we want.
Kind of feels like a shitty position tbh. If it wasnt for people like AOC and Ilhan Omar I would've given up and just committed to leaving the US to it's ruin. No left-leaning person with an ounce of decency should vote for Biden until the allegations against him have been investigated thoroughly. You can't pull the song and dance you pulled with Kavanaugh and then not do it with your Presidential Candidate. Which isn't a dig at you, if anything it's support. Biden doesn't deserve your vote yet. There are more then 1 (or 2) possible candidates for the Supreme Court. There were a plethera of choices that were not Kavanaugh. Barring something massive either Trump or Biden will be the next President. Don't forget that most people here didn't want Biden during the primary but the election has now become a binary choice between Biden and Trump. In a choice between two possible sexual predators I'm walking away, as should anyone else. SURELY you recognise that this has to be investigated? You seriously think this isn't going to be used against him? The precedent has been set with both Trump and Kavanaugh. Regardless of the truth of the accusation, their is less evidence for the accusation than there was against either Trump or Kavanaugh. It's not going to stick unless a lot more comes up. Is this the therapist note (which none of us saw) argument again or are you referring to something else when you suggest there's more evidence for Ford's allegation against Kavanaugh than Reade's against Biden? Not entirely sure I'd say more in a very significant sense, but Kavanaugh had multiple accusers and his defense was uh, awful enough to be negative proof, to say the least. ("I LIKE BEER"x11/calendars). Biden hasn't really presented any defense that I've heard of (I think there was some PR nonsense that said nothing basically). I think they both have multiple accusers though the accusations and evidence varies among them. Not sure it matters but all of Biden's accusers describe events when he was already an established adult who had certainly been confronted about his invasion of women's personal space and inappropriate touching/kissing before he had to be again during this current campaign as well. Surely people told him to stop after the incident with Chris Coons' daughter in 2015. Yet he had to be reminded (and made a bad joke about it) again during this 2020 campaign.
Kavanaugh had multiple accusations of violent rapes. Biden has one. The only other accusations I see are about unwanted hugs and non-sexual kisses. So yeah, bad, but in a different league from Kavanaugh's.
(Americans also definitely seem to hold the supreme court to higher standards than presidents)
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On April 19 2020 04:18 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2020 04:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2020 21:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation? Because American elections aren't about truth. Trump supporters will go to literally any length to excuse his failures during the pandemic. I see it across social media constantly. Republicans don't want to lose. Plain and simple. They sold their integrity years ago and their votes are set in stone. Trump could literally start throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live and they wouldn't change their vote. Democrats would vote for someone "throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live" as long as he threw them in slower than the other guy. Not exactly a level of integrity Republicans should be jealous of. What is the evidence which leads you to this conclusion? I imagine if things got that bad, the democrats would replace the candidate with someone less bad. Extrapolation has limits.
The Democratic party's support for Biden despite his role in putting kids in concentration camps and denying them basic hygiene is one piece. The several times we've done the "so you'd vote for ____ if ____ was the Republican nominee" another. My point about them voting for Biden even if he shot someone on 5th ave. Also the bit about how even if they believe Biden is a rapist, it's too late to replace him.
EDIT: Stuff like this:
On April 19 2020 05:01 NewSunshine wrote:
We're rapidly reaching a point where the whole house is on fire, but rather than put out half the house and buy time to find a way to put out the other half, folks are throwing their hands in the air in resignation because we don't have a way to put it out all at once. I'm not going to start blaming folks for feeling resigned to vote for Biden. Our system is genuinely fucked that there's no other choice right now, but also there's no other choice right now.
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On April 19 2020 04:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 21:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2020 20:35 Simberto wrote:
So, the US is at about a 9/11 in deaths every day due to covid 19 now. This will only keep on increasing as you haven't hit a plateau on the concurrent infected yet.
Considering how you reacted to a single 9/11 due to terrorism, has it hit yet just how much your administration in combination with your broken healthcare system has fucked this up?
Is there going to be a "war on disease" now?
How can there be any chance of Trump being reelected after this disaster, and his disastrous handling of this situation? Because American elections aren't about truth. Trump supporters will go to literally any length to excuse his failures during the pandemic. I see it across social media constantly. Republicans don't want to lose. Plain and simple. They sold their integrity years ago and their votes are set in stone. Trump could literally start throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live and they wouldn't change their vote. Democrats would vote for someone "throwing immigrants in concentration camps with active gas chambers televised live" as long as he threw them in slower than the other guy. Not exactly a level of integrity Republicans should be jealous of.
We are approaching some extremely far fetched scenarios now.
I recently discussed politics with a right-wing Norwegian who was extremely critical of a friend of his who threw his vote away by supporting an irrelevant microparty for pragmatic ideological reasons. That was in Norway, which at any time has around 8-10 different parties in their "Congress". It is not only a left wing issue.
A lot of Republicans held their nose voting for Trump. If he is to be beaten, all who oppose him need to do the same. 4 more years of this Fake anti-democratic president will have very dramatic consequences, some even speculate there might not even be another reasonably fair election after this how institutions, press and the checks and balances are being attacked.
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We're rapidly reaching a point where the whole house is on fire, but rather than put out half the house and buy time to find a way to put out the other half, folks are throwing their hands in the air in resignation because we don't have a way to put it out all at once. I'm not going to start blaming folks for feeling resigned to vote for Biden. Our system is genuinely fucked that there's no other choice right now, but also there's no other choice right now.
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EPT
