We have a big announcement today as we are officially making our way into Overwatch. After having been on the look out for some time now, we have found the roster that we want to work with. We have been exploring our options over the past couple of months because, as you know, we will always look at Blizzard games with a particular interest. In Overwatch we see a fresh and entertaining approach to shooters (at the very least among the major esports) that we feel will really take off with the right support.
During our search we eventually got in touch with dummy from The Life of Hanzo. Upon talking to him we immediately felt we had found a strong leader and a team with great potential. As with any team game, so much about advancing yourself into a winning position is about having the right attitude. This roster has an abundance of that, and they combine it with an incredible amount of talent. Those of you who have followed other scenes such as Quake, TF2, and Counter-Strike will recognize some of the names on the roster as a few of the best players to have played those games. Today they will join the ONOG Overwatch Invitational to test themselves against the best out there. Welcome to the family AZK, DaHaNG, dummy, Frisco, MESR and vee.
I do want to spend a few words on the addition of AZK as well, something I assure you we have not taken lightly. What he did in CS:GO is one of the worst offenses a professional gamer can ever commit. The punishment for this needs to be taken very seriously and I am glad Valve has paved the way as a publisher by stepping in with research and judgment to ensure a healthy environment for all aspiring gamers. For a while the esports industry had been wondering when the indefinite punishment was going to turn into a definite one. Earlier this year Valve came out with a clarification that it would be a permanent ban. On a personal level I feel that this may have been too much, and that just and right punishment is not done by permanently banning offenders for a first offense. It has put us in a spot with this team where we had to seriously think about our course of action. After speaking at length about the situation with AZK as well as dummy we are ready to move forward with this team. Eighteen months later and in a different game, we feel confident it is time for a second chance and new opportunity, and we are excited to see what AZK does with it.
- Victor "Liquid`Nazgul" Goossens
I'm sure it should come as no surprise that Team Liquid was my introduction into the world of esports. It all started with TSL 2, which was my first taste of StarCraft: BroodWar. I followed the game even into StarCraft II. The website functioned as a substantial resource for learning, and it also provided a community I found myself complete absorbed in. I lurked the forums, watched Day[9] dailies and State of the Game, and learned the history of StarCraft through Liquipedia.
Team Liquid nurtured my passion for esports and it feels very natural for me to transition into representing them as a player. I really appreciate the opportunity Liquid is giving me and my team, and I'm excited to compete in future Overwatch tournaments as part of the organization.
- Tim "dummy" Olson
As many of you know, I was involved in a matchfixing scandal in CS:GO. I know that no excuse can possibly justify my actions. I fully deserve the punishment that I received from Valve, and I have learned to accept the greater consequences of what I did. Words cannot express how much I regret those decisions, and it will take more than apologies to repair my reputation.
Even though I realize that I hurt the scene that I enjoyed so much, the only way I know to prove that I've changed is through competition. I know that many of you are skeptical about me participating in esports again, but I swear to do it right. I may not deserve your trust or even your forgiveness, but I plan to earn it in Overwatch. Very few people receive second chances like this, and I am aware of how lucky I am that an organization like Liquid believes in me. I take full responsibility for my past mistakes, and part of that is showing everyone that I have reformed and matured. I do not expect anyone to believe me right now, but hopefully I can change minds with hard work, perseverance, and a positive attitude.
Going into Overwatch, the game has been a lot of fun so far, and it feels like I still have a lot to learn. I'm currently practicing every single day trying to reach the level that I was at in Counter-Strike. We have a great group of guys who have all been elite players in the games that they've played and I believe we have what it takes to become one of the best teams in the world.
Lastly, I would like to ask the fans to spare my teammates from unwarranted criticism. They have been kind enough to trust me as a teammate and as a friend, and they have nothing to do with my past. I am lucky enough to be on a team with a bunch of great people, and I hope that you can support them even if you cannot support me.
This is interesting, a Valve banned player switching to a Blizzard game. Well, I guess that's his chance of redemption, but I doubt he will manage to escape the past as he will always be reminded of it.
i have some reservations about people hyping up a comp scene for a game that's still a month away from being released to the public, but that's cool i guess
On April 10 2016 02:52 Deyster wrote: This is interesting, a Valve banned player switching to a Blizzard game. Well, I guess that's his chance of redemption, but I doubt he will manage to escape the past as he will always be reminded of it.
I wonder what would happen in the real world if say, a tennisman banned from competing was switching to Football or Handball for example.
On April 10 2016 03:29 AsnSensation wrote: idk how I feel about signing a known matchfixer but i guess everyone deserves a second chance
If any org is gonna understand matchfixing its TL. Remember, TL as a community and Nazgul have been around for a very very long time and know well the impact of matchfixing.
I am sure that they did not take the signing lightly and spent a lot of time talking to AZK and discussing it internally. If I trust any org with signing an ex match fixer its TL.
Keep in mind also a lot of the CSGO community believe that its getting to the point where ex-IBP deserve a second chance and that a perma ban from valve is too harsh and that the ban should have a time limit.
On April 10 2016 03:40 nighcol wrote: DaHang! Even Rapha is looking to play some competitive Overwatch.
I played with Rapha the other day in two matches. Dude is good, but I don't know how serious he is taking it tbh he mentioned he was just enjoying playing for now when i asked him.
On April 10 2016 03:11 calippo wrote: haha signing a player that got busted for matchfixing in CS:GO, way to go Liquid.
TL has signed on players in the past, despite slight controversies; they reformed and became respectable players once more. Even in StarCraft 2...
When have they ever signed a player that has done anything close to matchfixing?
For example, Haypro was caught hacking in SC1, yet the community got over it and trusted him as he joined TL's SC2 team. Very similar to how this CS:GO cheater will hopefully be eventually accepted into Overwatch, because TL is vetting him.
I'm fine with trusting TL and seeing how things play out.
On April 10 2016 03:41 ZeromuS wrote: If any org is gonna understand matchfixing its TL. Remember, TL as a community and Nazgul have been around for a very very long time and know well the impact of matchfixing.
On April 10 2016 03:11 calippo wrote: haha signing a player that got busted for matchfixing in CS:GO, way to go Liquid.
TL has signed on players in the past, despite slight controversies; they reformed and became respectable players once more. Even in StarCraft 2...
When have they ever signed a player that has done anything close to matchfixing?
For example, Haypro was caught hacking in SC1, yet the community got over it and trusted him as he joined TL's SC2 team. Very similar to how this CS:GO cheater will hopefully be eventually accepted into Overwatch, because TL is vetting him.
I'm fine with trusting TL and seeing how things play out.
The Haypro thing was apparently an accident, and even if it wasn't, it was nowhere near matchfixing, and generally it always felt like Liquid wanted to stay away from controversial players.
Waxangel's opinions are his own and not representative of Liquid's, but in the thread about Kespa possibly persuing legal action against the PRIME matchfixers, he said:
"The fact that [Savior is] very publicly streaming and getting along relatively fine (at least from the outside) sets an awful example."
On April 10 2016 02:54 suicideyear wrote: i have some reservations about people hyping up a comp scene for a game that's still a month away from being released to the public, but that's cool i guess
So much this. I think this game needs time in the public before anything and even then I don't see it as a very entertaining nor fun e-sports game to watch.
On April 10 2016 05:17 -NegativeZero- wrote: not every game should be forced into esports
... Overwatch is designed from the grounds up to be an esport. One I'm actually looking forward too. With this line-up it won't be Liquid I'll be rooting for unfortunately.
Only heard of AZK from the matchfixing thing and Dummy from NotEnigma back in the old beta. Still, it'll be interesting to see how they do. The scene is raw and the game isn't even finished yet, so the roster's probably going to fluctuate wildly. Still, will be interesting to see what happens.
Still not sold on overwatch as an esports but Blizzard have done a great job balancing the heroes. A Month ago, you would see pro teams running the same comp like two Winston,reapers,tracer, genji or zen. But lately, I have been seeing diverse comps from pro teams. Spectator mode is still pretty iffy thought.....
On April 10 2016 06:16 Jealous wrote: Savior matchfixes, has his name stricken from the records, championships removed, almost universally hated on TL.
Add matchfixer to Liquid` roster.
Word.
You just cannot compare Savior's matchfixing to what AZK and the rest of ex-ibuypower did. It was definitely bad, but to condemn AZK for the rest of his life, especially after hes permabanned from CS is just dumb
On April 10 2016 06:16 Jealous wrote: Savior matchfixes, has his name stricken from the records, championships removed, almost universally hated on TL.
Add matchfixer to Liquid` roster.
Word.
You just cannot compare Savior's matchfixing to what AZK and the rest of ex-ibuypower did. It was definitely bad, but to condemn AZK for the rest of his life, especially after hes permabanned from CS is just dumb
"Now, the Daily Dot has been provided with new corroborating details from multiple sources that strongly indicate the game was fixed and that multiple, unusual bets were placed just prior to the match by a player with strong connections to the players on both sides—wagers that garnered more than $10,000 in earnings."
Still pretty bad and I don't see how it's not comparable. 18 months seems like too little time, as well.
On April 10 2016 06:16 Jealous wrote: Savior matchfixes, has his name stricken from the records, championships removed, almost universally hated on TL.
Add matchfixer to Liquid` roster.
Word.
You just cannot compare Savior's matchfixing to what AZK and the rest of ex-ibuypower did. It was definitely bad, but to condemn AZK for the rest of his life, especially after hes permabanned from CS is just dumb
"Now, the Daily Dot has been provided with new corroborating details from multiple sources that strongly indicate the game was fixed and that multiple, unusual bets were placed just prior to the match by a player with strong connections to the players on both sides—wagers that garnered more than $10,000 in earnings."
Still pretty bad and I don't see how it's not comparable. 18 months seems like too little time, as well.
To be fair the earnings werent in money but rather in CS:GO skins, which, even though its bad, it's atleast not as bad as for getting 10000$ in money. One of the reasons i don't like comparing the cases is that Savior was brokering alot of games in Proleague, the biggest and best league in Starcraft at the time, with lots of different players and making the sc-scene a mess pretty much. On the other hand IBP threw one pointless match which didn't have any meaning (kinda like that one Naniwa vs Nestea game) but decided to get some earnings from that (which was a dumb choice for sure) since they didn't get salary or anything and were apparently quite poor.
Now im not saying that what IBP did was right, it definitely wasnt and i was against unbanning them for a long time, but i think that they have definitely understood just how bad what they did was and i wouldn't have trouble seeing them play CS:GO again, but since that isnt possible moving onto other games, what they did in the past shouldn't imo hurt them. That's why i dont feel bad about AZK being on this team. I doubt that they would go and throw a game for short term earnings and i think that he and the rest of the team have suffered their punishment.
Been trying to find a team in OW that I wanted to root for, but didn't know any of the FPS players to have background on them. I'm so happy that Liquid has supplied me my first favorite OW team!
On April 10 2016 06:16 Jealous wrote: Savior matchfixes, has his name stricken from the records, championships removed, almost universally hated on TL.
Add matchfixer to Liquid` roster.
Word.
You just cannot compare Savior's matchfixing to what AZK and the rest of ex-ibuypower did. It was definitely bad, but to condemn AZK for the rest of his life, especially after hes permabanned from CS is just dumb
"Now, the Daily Dot has been provided with new corroborating details from multiple sources that strongly indicate the game was fixed and that multiple, unusual bets were placed just prior to the match by a player with strong connections to the players on both sides—wagers that garnered more than $10,000 in earnings."
Still pretty bad and I don't see how it's not comparable. 18 months seems like too little time, as well.
To be fair the earnings werent in money but rather in CS:GO skins, which, even though its bad, it's atleast not as bad as for getting 10000$ in money. One of the reasons i don't like comparing the cases is that Savior was brokering alot of games in Proleague, the biggest and best league in Starcraft at the time, with lots of different players and making the sc-scene a mess pretty much. On the other hand IBP threw one pointless match which didn't have any meaning (kinda like that one Naniwa vs Nestea game) but decided to get some earnings from that (which was a dumb choice for sure) since they didn't get salary or anything and were apparently quite poor.
Now im not saying that what IBP did was right, it definitely wasnt and i was against unbanning them for a long time, but i think that they have definitely understood just how bad what they did was and i wouldn't have trouble seeing them play CS:GO again, but since that isnt possible moving onto other games, what they did in the past shouldn't imo hurt them. That's why i dont feel bad about AZK being on this team. I doubt that they would go and throw a game for short term earnings and i think that he and the rest of the team have suffered their punishment.
I think it's largely a question of how likely a repeat offense is.
With someone who's been permabanned from CS:GO, and seen how much shit you get in for matchfixing, I think the chances are QUITE low that he or she would matchfix again. Come to think of it, Savior probably wouldn't matchfix again, but that's neither here nor there.
I think the biggest determining factor behind the hatred for and disappointment in Savior is his status as a legend of BW. The guy was one of the greatest SC:BW players of all time, and was getting paid a lot in endorsements, team salary, and winnings. IBP, from the little I know about the situation, was nowhere near the status of Savior in terms of gosu-ness and prestige in the game they played.
Savior has no redeeming qualities with regards to his matchfixing. He was winning and winning and winning, and had become a legend in SC, and THEN committed his offense. The let-down just isn't the same for IBP.
Hell no. No. No cheater should allowed second chances. Period. We always considered e-sports as a sport right?
She is Lisa Dobriskey. She became 10th in 2012 London Olympics in 1500m womans. After race she told to press her rivals were probably cheating.
After 4 years especially after technological improvements against doping and using biological identities as anti-doping system that race became one of the worst races in Olympics
See.. If those fucking cheaters didn't run that day maybe Lisa won a bronze medal! You will feel different when 9 opponents ahead of you then 3 opponents. (BTW i am a Turk and i am ashamed of these cheaters which come first and runner up. They simply dont have the olympic spirit. Olympics should care about racing, not winning. They don't deserve second chances. Just like Armstrong)
Azk's matchfixing feels the same to me. I have a simple question for Nazgul? What do you feel about Lisa? What do you feel about Azk's matchfixing? Yes azk didn't cheat for win. Instead he throw on purpose. But also it doesn't mean he wont cheat again!!! He already showed his lack of ethics. Do you really belive azk is the right guy for TL? For me TL is ALWAYS the good guys of e-sports. If a damn cheater allowed to play under TL banner....
Nazgul. Please, i humbly request to reconsider your decision.
On April 10 2016 03:40 nighcol wrote: DaHang! Even Rapha is looking to play some competitive Overwatch.
I played with Rapha the other day in two matches. Dude is good, but I don't know how serious he is taking it tbh he mentioned he was just enjoying playing for now when i asked him.
We asked him in his stream chat and he said he's interested in competing.
On April 10 2016 07:26 Aceace wrote: Wait a second.. azk in TL roster???
Hell no. No. No cheater should allowed second chances. Period. We always considered e-sports as a sport right?
She is Lisa Dobriskey. She became 10th in 2012 London Olympics in 1500m womans. After race she told to press her rivals were probably cheating.
After 4 years especially after technological improvements against doping and using biological identities as anti-doping system that race became one of the worst races in Olympics
See.. If those fucking cheaters didn't run that day maybe Lisa won a bronze medal! You will feel different when 9 opponents ahead of you then 3 opponents. (BTW i am a Turk and i am ashamed of these cheaters which come first and runner up. They simply dont have the olympic spirit. Olympics should care about racing, not winning. They don't deserve second chances. Just like Armstrong)
Azk's matchfixing feels the same to me. I have a simple question for Nazgul? What do you feel about Lisa? What do you feel about Azk's matchfixing? Yes azk didn't cheat for win. Instead he throw on purpose. But also it doesn't mean he wont cheat again!!! He already showed his lack of ethics. Do you really belive azk is the right guy for TL? For me TL is ALWAYS the good guys of e-sports. If a damn cheater allowed to play under TL banner....
Nazgul. Please, i humbly request to reconsider your decision.
If it makes you feel any better prolly a majority of the current CS-scene players have cheated at one point in 1.6 or something. I doubt theyre cheating now, so a lot of the time people do change. Also check my post earlier where i talked about the IBP-incicent
Why choose a team when the game is in a tiny closed beta? I'm not sure if 95% or 99.5% of the people who want to play overwatch have not been able to play yet, but it seems wrong.
On April 10 2016 08:48 Cyro wrote: Why choose a team when the game is in a tiny closed beta? I'm not sure if 95% or 99% of the people who want to play overwatch have not been able to play yet, but it seems wrong.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already and during the early competition they'll have a big advantage. Seems like pretty much all of them also have a competitive background in other first person shooters and some of those skills will certainly apply. Don't know what the timeframe is for the start of big tournaments but if it's at all close to release it absolutely makes sense to already start forming squads.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already
So how does one find "a way to get in the beta already". I've got half a team that's been waiting to play since the hour it was announced and am more than qualified - i have not had a chance, nor have almost all of the people that i know that want to play at a casual or competitive level.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already
So how does one find "a way to get in the beta already". I've got half a team that's been waiting to play since the hour it was announced and am more than qualified - i have not had a chance, nor have almost all of the people that i know that want to play at a casual or competitive level.
I don't know about how legal/illegal it is (probably varies by jurisdiction) but the most obvious way would be to just buy accounts from those that have received access. I'm certain some people have done that if they've not been lucky enough to know someone who knows someone at Blizzard or whatever.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already
So how does one find "a way to get in the beta already". I've got half a team that's been waiting to play since the hour it was announced and am more than qualified - i have not had a chance, nor have almost all of the people that i know that want to play at a casual or competitive level.
I don't know about how legal/illegal it is (probably varies by jurisdiction) but the most obvious way would be to just buy accounts from those that have received access. I'm certain some people have done that if they've not been lucky enough to know someone who knows someone at Blizzard or whatever.
Pretty sure that wouldn't be 'illegal' anywhere, but would be against their terms of use, so they could just ban you if they found out.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already
So how does one find "a way to get in the beta already". I've got half a team that's been waiting to play since the hour it was announced and am more than qualified - i have not had a chance, nor have almost all of the people that i know that want to play at a casual or competitive level.
I don't know about how legal/illegal it is (probably varies by jurisdiction) but the most obvious way would be to just buy accounts from those that have received access. I'm certain some people have done that if they've not been lucky enough to know someone who knows someone at Blizzard or whatever.
Blizzard ban for that, they also ban for account sharing. I've been knee deep in that drama with friends trying to get WoW beta access to compete with others that randomly got it.
On April 10 2016 07:26 Aceace wrote: Wait a second.. azk in TL roster???
Hell no. No. No cheater should allowed second chances. Period. We always considered e-sports as a sport right?
She is Lisa Dobriskey. She became 10th in 2012 London Olympics in 1500m womans. After race she told to press her rivals were probably cheating.
After 4 years especially after technological improvements against doping and using biological identities as anti-doping system that race became one of the worst races in Olympics
See.. If those fucking cheaters didn't run that day maybe Lisa won a bronze medal! You will feel different when 9 opponents ahead of you then 3 opponents. (BTW i am a Turk and i am ashamed of these cheaters which come first and runner up. They simply dont have the olympic spirit. Olympics should care about racing, not winning. They don't deserve second chances. Just like Armstrong)
Azk's matchfixing feels the same to me. I have a simple question for Nazgul? What do you feel about Lisa? What do you feel about Azk's matchfixing? Yes azk didn't cheat for win. Instead he throw on purpose. But also it doesn't mean he wont cheat again!!! He already showed his lack of ethics. Do you really belive azk is the right guy for TL? For me TL is ALWAYS the good guys of e-sports. If a damn cheater allowed to play under TL banner....
Nazgul. Please, i humbly request to reconsider your decision.
first ever big time olympian steroid cheat caught was ben johnson at the '88 olympics in korea. every other participant in the race was busted for 'roids later in their careers.
in a world where every one breaks the law.. the only crime is getting caught.
Many people who want to go pro in it will have found a way to get in the beta already
So how does one find "a way to get in the beta already". I've got half a team that's been waiting to play since the hour it was announced and am more than qualified - i have not had a chance, nor have almost all of the people that i know that want to play at a casual or competitive level.
I don't know about how legal/illegal it is (probably varies by jurisdiction) but the most obvious way would be to just buy accounts from those that have received access. I'm certain some people have done that if they've not been lucky enough to know someone who knows someone at Blizzard or whatever.
Blizzard ban for that, they also ban for account sharing. I've been knee deep in that drama with friends trying to get WoW beta access to compete with others that randomly got it.
Sure, but it's still a working option that would get someone practicing and I doubt it's very easy for Blizzard to find out. Of course it would limit what you can do pre-release somewhat but still.
On April 10 2016 10:26 Cyro wrote: Why encourage people to spend large amounts of money to break the rules? Either of those suck but both together is way worse.
Who do you think is encouraging, Blizzard? Yeah, I don't really like the situation either but I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
A lot of people. Blizz created the situation but people are doing this sort of thing and organizations like TL are rewarding it by picking up all of their players during the onlywatch phase.
I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Before everybody gets their pitchforks out because of AZK, why don't we focus on Overwatch itself, which to me seems like the far bigger wildcard? For example, do we know for sure that Overwatch won't have the same shitty business model like that of Hearthstone? If it's anywhere near the same, then I'm not even going to consider watching or playing the game and I personally couldn't give two shits about whether a former CSGO match-fixer was playing for Liquid or not.
On April 10 2016 13:49 writer22816 wrote: Before everybody gets their pitchforks out because of AZK, why don't we focus on Overwatch itself, which to me seems like the far bigger wildcard? For example, do we know for sure that Overwatch won't have the same shitty business model like that of Hearthstone? If it's anywhere near the same, then I'm not even going to consider watching or playing the game and I personally couldn't give two shits about whether a former CSGO match-fixer was playing for Liquid or not.
Blizzard cares enough about the integrity of Overwatch to allow the gameplay to dictate the payment model rather than the other way round. They've said that because you can switch characters in the middle of an Overwatch match they will release new heroes for free, you won't have to pay for anything that affects gameplay.
Even if it had a shitty payment model like LoL, HS, or Heroes, I don't think it would affect its viability as an eSport any ways (unfortunately).
You cant compare the IBP throw to savi0r's throw in BW because one scene was at the peak of its era and one scene was still growing and not a fully developed scene.
Match fixing is match fixing no matter how you try to justify it. You don't have to compare to savior, we have several ongoing issues with match fixing at the moment in starcraft 2 alone
On April 10 2016 08:48 Cyro wrote: Why choose a team when the game is in a tiny closed beta? I'm not sure if 95% or 99.5% of the people who want to play overwatch have not been able to play yet, but it seems wrong.
I didn't expect TL to recruit match fixers either
TL has had a 'special relationship' with Blizzard ever since SC2 came out. In the money making side of website forums TL is uniquely positioned in the Blizzard community building aspect. I don't know how close TL staff are to Blizzard but any kind of negative comment about Blizzard gets scrutinised here.
Look at the Heroes of the Storm fiasco. There were puff piece 'hype' articles coming out for months, you would think HotS was the second coming of BW reading a TL article about it. It really felt like astro turfing how artificial it all felt, at least Hearthstone was a card game and LoL had its own organic hype.
And yes, it was clearly visible to anyone back then that no one was going to take HotS seriously. An unfinished game in beta that was going to be subjected to sweeping game changes to make it 'easier to get into' being forced into competitiveness, sigh. There has to be an organic community there for this to work.
edit: At least they arent building a new forum for Overwatch, just a team gets them an auto spot in Blizzcon and free tickets so I guess it pays off from that perspective.
On April 10 2016 13:11 SirPinky wrote: I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
They're looking at a team with talent, and putting in resources to help developer that talent. A lot of these people might not be in the scene six months from now, but that's normal. Game competitions are fierce and dynamic. Most of the people on top of the ladder in Wings of Liberty beta are not going to be the same people who have huge dynasties in the game years later.
I don't think such a headstart matters long-term. That type of skill isnt a snowball. And I think Blizzard recognizes that, and they understand equal opportunity is important, thats why Hots and Hearthstone didnt have a prizepool their first year at Blizzcon, since it would be unfair because there wasnt open qualifiers.
I'm gonna be the lone voice here and say that I think a second chance for azk is in order. I know I'm not the only one here who has harmed others by making stupid, selfish decisions. However, the lessons we learn from those instances are what shapes us into the people we are; those single bad decisions shouldn't hurt us for the rest of our lives.
I don't support lifelong punishments on first offenses for pretty much anything but the most extreme circumstances (I. E. murder), and I don't think participating match fixing is anywhere close to that category. Azk has clearly felt his shame, suffered his punishment from valve, learned his lesson, made his apology, and is ready to move on.
Match fixers should not receive second chances. Period. That is the worst thing you can do as a competitor, as it is on par with cheating just in the opposite direction.
And I do not care about Overwatch, but Liquid was once the team, which have had higher standards. I am quite dissapointed by that.
On April 10 2016 17:36 Kitai wrote: I'm gonna be the lone voice here and say that I think a second chance for azk is in order. I know I'm not the only one here who has harmed others by making stupid, selfish decisions. However, the lessons we learn from those instances are what shapes us into the people we are; those single bad decisions shouldn't hurt us for the rest of our lives.
I don't support lifelong punishments on first offenses for pretty much anything but the most extreme circumstances (I. E. murder), and I don't think participating match fixing is anywhere close to that category. Azk has clearly felt his shame, suffered his punishment from valve, learned his lesson, made his apology, and is ready to move on.
Best of luck to TL in Overwatch!
I agree with this pretty much 100%. And I also trust Liquid to work with azk close enough that he'll grow as a player and as a person.
Never heard of the others before but I certainly remember DaHanG. He was one of the top 8 players in Quake Live when it was still played at IEM. I always enjoyed watching that game there and was a bit sad when it was dropped. Nice to see him being supported by Liquid now.
On April 10 2016 17:36 Kitai wrote: I'm gonna be the lone voice here and say that I think a second chance for azk is in order. I know I'm not the only one here who has harmed others by making stupid, selfish decisions. However, the lessons we learn from those instances are what shapes us into the people we are; those single bad decisions shouldn't hurt us for the rest of our lives.
I don't support lifelong punishments on first offenses for pretty much anything but the most extreme circumstances (I. E. murder), and I don't think participating match fixing is anywhere close to that category. Azk has clearly felt his shame, suffered his punishment from valve, learned his lesson, made his apology, and is ready to move on.
On April 10 2016 17:36 Kitai wrote: I'm gonna be the lone voice here and say that I think a second chance for azk is in order. I know I'm not the only one here who has harmed others by making stupid, selfish decisions. However, the lessons we learn from those instances are what shapes us into the people we are; those single bad decisions shouldn't hurt us for the rest of our lives.
I don't support lifelong punishments on first offenses for pretty much anything but the most extreme circumstances (I. E. murder), and I don't think participating match fixing is anywhere close to that category. Azk has clearly felt his shame, suffered his punishment from valve, learned his lesson, made his apology, and is ready to move on.
Best of luck to TL in Overwatch!
I agree with you, lifelong punishments leave little for reform, especially in it's first ever instance.
Ok so for all the people who weren't around when ibp actually threw the match in question let me fill you in on a few facts.
Ibp had just returned from a month in Europe at which point they were forced to play a match online in cevo that had no implications on their standings (they would finish first in the league regardless). The match was on season a map that was not played in Europe at all and Ibp hadn't played for at least 3 months as they were prepping for international lans.
Furthermore, they were playing netcode guides a team that the ingame leader of ibp (dazed) was a co owner of. Netcode needed a win in order to make playoffs. Funny that no one hates on cevo at all for this even though they allowed this conflict of interest in the first place.
Now tell me your sorry for the people who bet on ibp at 6-1 odds considering all those factors, they deserved to lose their money anyways. Not saying I condone match fixing but it drives me crazy seeing all the people parroting "match fixers shouldn't get a second chance" without knowing any of the context.
On April 11 2016 00:33 whuderE wrote: Ok so for all the people who weren't around when ibp actually threw the match in question let me fill you in on a few facts.
Ibp had just returned from a month in Europe at which point they were forced to play a match online in cevo that had no implications on their standings (they would finish first in the league regardless). The match was on season a map that was not played in Europe at all and Ibp hadn't played for at least 3 months as they were prepping for international lans.
Furthermore, they were playing netcode guides a team that the ingame leader of ibp (dazed) was a co owner of. Netcode needed a win in order to make playoffs. Funny that no one hates on cevo at all for this even though they allowed this conflict of interest in the first place.
Now tell me your sorry for the people who bet on ibp at 6-1 odds considering all those factors, they deserved to lose their money anyways. Not saying I condone match fixing but it drives me crazy seeing all the people parroting "match fixers shouldn't get a second chance" without knowing any of the context.
Doesn't this happen in F1? I'm pretty sure I've seen some guys let his mate pass in front of him because he had a better placement in the championship. Indeed it's a pretty big mistake from CEVO in the first place.
On April 11 2016 00:33 whuderE wrote: Ok so for all the people who weren't around when ibp actually threw the match in question let me fill you in on a few facts.
Ibp had just returned from a month in Europe at which point they were forced to play a match online in cevo that had no implications on their standings (they would finish first in the league regardless). The match was on season a map that was not played in Europe at all and Ibp hadn't played for at least 3 months as they were prepping for international lans.
Furthermore, they were playing netcode guides a team that the ingame leader of ibp (dazed) was a co owner of. Netcode needed a win in order to make playoffs. Funny that no one hates on cevo at all for this even though they allowed this conflict of interest in the first place.
Now tell me your sorry for the people who bet on ibp at 6-1 odds considering all those factors, they deserved to lose their money anyways. Not saying I condone match fixing but it drives me crazy seeing all the people parroting "match fixers shouldn't get a second chance" without knowing any of the context.
Doesn't this happen in F1? I'm pretty sure I've seen some guys let his mate pass in front of him because he had a better placement in the championship. Indeed it's a pretty big mistake from CEVO in the first place.
It was allowed when Schumacher/Ferrari did it and it was again allowed the last years till 2016 with the new rules considering the team radio. And in F1 they are actually teammates, IBP against NCG havent been team mades, just 2 orgs with some connections.
Matchfixing stays matchfixing and Liquid shouldnt go that way. I saw Liquid always as the anti C9, now they become C9 each day a bit more.
On April 10 2016 07:26 Aceace wrote: Wait a second.. azk in TL roster???
Hell no. No. No cheater should allowed second chances. Period. We always considered e-sports as a sport right?
She is Lisa Dobriskey. She became 10th in 2012 London Olympics in 1500m womans. After race she told to press her rivals were probably cheating.
After 4 years especially after technological improvements against doping and using biological identities as anti-doping system that race became one of the worst races in Olympics
See.. If those fucking cheaters didn't run that day maybe Lisa won a bronze medal! You will feel different when 9 opponents ahead of you then 3 opponents. (BTW i am a Turk and i am ashamed of these cheaters which come first and runner up. They simply dont have the olympic spirit. Olympics should care about racing, not winning. They don't deserve second chances. Just like Armstrong)
Azk's matchfixing feels the same to me. I have a simple question for Nazgul? What do you feel about Lisa? What do you feel about Azk's matchfixing? Yes azk didn't cheat for win. Instead he throw on purpose. But also it doesn't mean he wont cheat again!!! He already showed his lack of ethics. Do you really belive azk is the right guy for TL? For me TL is ALWAYS the good guys of e-sports. If a damn cheater allowed to play under TL banner....
Nazgul. Please, i humbly request to reconsider your decision.
I definitely think we need to take this very seriously, and really don't mind different opinions on the topic. I also don't think my thoughts and opinions on this are absolute. There's room for differing perspective. What I can say is that we do not and will never take this lightly.
I think that if you want to look at different sports you need to compare things such as precedent, culture, and longevity of ones career. When we ran TSL and there was win-trading going on in our ladder qualifier we were the first organization to really do something about this in western SC:BW. Our punishment was between eight and twelve months because of the lack of precedent. We specifically came out and announced heavier punishment for the exact same offenses going forward, because players deserve to get educated on the ethics as well as consequences. For what its worth even the announced penalties were still all eighteen months and under. In my opinion we need to define serious and consistent penalties for unethical conduct and create a situation where players know exactly what to expect. Esports has come a long way and we still have very far to go in this regard.
Additionally you could make the argument that penalties from one sport never carry over to the next. In fact oftentimes penalties from one organization don't even carry over to the next even within the same sport. I'm not sure how much I agree with that though, and in a perfect world all of these would be working together. However again if we apply such a thing across all sports worldwide sometime, they would always start with education and precedent on this being the case.
In this case with a mixture of it being a new game, as well as the duration of the punishment, I feel strongly that it is time for another chance.
On April 10 2016 13:11 SirPinky wrote: I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Understand your reasoning and I'm not sure if it came across like that in my OP, but we aren't picking these guys up just because they were good in other games. We definitely believe in their skillset and potential specifically in Overwatch, which as you say is not at all guaranteed just from their backgrounds. There are certain things you can get from it though such as dedication, personality, and mechanics. These things play a role but are not the defining factor on who to work with.
People make mistakes and AZK is definitely feeling the consequences of it. CS:GO is extremely popular now and so many pro players are making good money. He's been playing counter-strike for a very long time. He played source prior to global offensive when there was not a lot of money and prestige (best NA source player imo).
I don't know much about savior's match fixing but I do know that starcraft is a 1v1 game and so that he acted alone; and perhaps his matches had much more significance. With ibp's match fixing, I can see some players being peer pressured into doing it. The whole team has to agree to match fix to fix the matches properly.
Knowing that caseyfoster and dazed are co-owners of netcodeguides (and that caseyfoster was also linked/banned with match fixing), it's pretty obvious that dazed initiated the match fixing and relayed his ideas to his teammates. Some people have a really laid back demeanor, and AZK and Swag seemed to be like that. I have watched AZK's stream prior to the bans, he's really quiet and chill.
As far as the single match that ibp match fixed, it was a really insignificant one. It was an online regular season match that wouldn't matter much in the standings. It would be like a match where a coach decides to sit out their starters in a sport if they had already made playoffs when there is nothing of significance to play for.
So I'm happy for AZK to have a second chance because I believe in second chances. Who I really feel bad for is swag. Dazed, who's like 25/26 right now and like 8 years older than swag, the team leader, and the most vocal of the bunch. He's in a position of influence. After the dust settled, dazed is now one of the top streamers and hustling more than just skins; promoting gambling sites and getting lots of subs on twitch. The irony is that he's probably benefited from being caught :/
On April 11 2016 06:23 illsick wrote: People make mistakes and AZK is definitely feeling the consequences of it. CS:GO is extremely popular now and so many pro players are making good money. He's been playing counter-strike for a very long time. He played source prior to global offensive when there was not a lot of money and prestige (best NA source player imo).
I don't know much about savior's match fixing but I do know that starcraft is a 1v1 game and so that he acted alone; and perhaps his matches had much more significance. With ibp's match fixing, I can see some players being peer pressured into doing it. The whole team has to agree to match fix to fix the matches properly.
Knowing that caseyfoster and dazed are co-owners of netcodeguides (and that caseyfoster was also linked/banned with match fixing), it's pretty obvious that dazed initiated the match fixing and relayed his ideas to his teammates. Some people have a really laid back demeanor, and AZK and Swag seemed to be like that. I have watched AZK's stream prior to the bans, he's really quiet and chill.
As far as the single match that ibp match fixed, it was a really insignificant one. It was an online regular season match that wouldn't matter much in the standings. It would be like a match where a coach decides to sit out their starters in a sport if they had already made playoffs when there is nothing of significance to play for.
So I'm happy for AZK to have a second chance because I believe in second chances. Who I really feel bad for is swag. Dazed, who's like 25/26 right now and like 8 years older than swag, the team leader, and the most vocal of the bunch. He's in a position of influence. After the dust settled, dazed is now one of the top streamers and hustling more than just skins; promoting gambling sites and getting lots of subs on twitch. The irony is that he's probably benefited from being caught :/
You need to read about Savior's match-fixing. He did more than matchfix his own games.
On April 11 2016 00:10 Lappen.464 wrote: First a cheater in CS:GO now here... Liquid lost ist Soul.
AZK didn't cheat. If you want to point out cheaters, then look at S1mple who had a 1.6 wire ban but now plays for Liquid as well
He was cheating... throwing a game is cheating. And with my post i also pointed on Simple
swissman777 Profile PM Joined September 2014
502 Posts
3 hours ago #123
On April 11 2016 00:10 Lappen.464 wrote: First a cheater in CS:GO now here... Liquid lost ist Soul.
Well I support their work, does it mean that I also lost my Soul?
I simply mean, that I liked the Team especially for one reason: They were the good guys. And in SC2 they chose their Players very carefully. A bad mannered Player did not have a chance to get on tl's roster. And now they do the exact opposite. The second cheater in a row... I mean a cheater... not even EG would hire that.
Only problem I have with this news is that swag didnt make the team too
I am not at all comfortable with players receiving lifetime bans in a game when they were not receiving a salary, were being forced to play a meaningless match, and have absolutely no player's union to defend them and to ensure a fair process and punishment.
Most esports pros are getting screwed some way or another behind the scenes. Sure there are a bunch making tons of money on the bigger orgs but most players are treated like cattle and dropped the second they have a rough patch. These players do more than anyone to promote these games and they get the least amount of protection. Look at what has happened to korean sc2 pros this year. Valve was more concerned about punishing these players than protecting the thousands upon thousands of children who are probably going to develop gambling problems later in life due to valve's tepid endorsement of skin betting sites because valve only cares about their bottom line. Swag was 17 at the time of the throw and is probably still the best player in NA. Valve has single handedly decided this kid will no longer have a career that he has spent half his life preparing for. Pro athletes dont even get lifetime bans for PED's, and here we have esport fans calling for lifetime bans over something so completely minute. Context is everything, and in this context a lifetime ban is completely inappropriate and I applaud liquid's maturity to assess the situation and make the correct decision regarding the future of a great person and talented gamer who made a single shitty mistake in his accomplished career.
She is Lisa Dobriskey. She became 10th in 2012 London Olympics in 1500m womans. After race she told to press her rivals were probably cheating.
After 4 years especially after technological improvements against doping and using biological identities as anti-doping system that race became one of the worst races in Olympics
See.. If those fucking cheaters didn't run that day maybe Lisa won a bronze medal! You will feel different when 9 opponents ahead of you then 3 opponents. (BTW i am a Turk and i am ashamed of these cheaters which come first and runner up. They simply dont have the olympic spirit. Olympics should care about racing, not winning. They don't deserve second chances. Just like Armstrong)
Azk's matchfixing feels the same to me. I have a simple question for Nazgul? What do you feel about Lisa? What do you feel about Azk's matchfixing? Yes azk didn't cheat for win. Instead he throw on purpose. But also it doesn't mean he wont cheat again!!! He already showed his lack of ethics. Do you really belive azk is the right guy for TL? For me TL is ALWAYS the good guys of e-sports. If a damn cheater allowed to play under TL banner....
Nazgul. Please, i humbly request to reconsider your decision.
On April 11 2016 09:50 ItsMeDomLee wrote: When are we going to get a Liquid Lost Vikings team?
Right after a professional Mafia team to compete in Town of Salem web browser game. I personally am quite annoyed at Liquid just throwing its name all over the place in any and every game nowadays it seems. This just results in subpar teams all around, I dunno why Nazgul feels the need to have a team in so many games.
On April 11 2016 09:50 ItsMeDomLee wrote: When are we going to get a Liquid Lost Vikings team?
Right after a professional Mafia team to compete in Town of Salem web browser game. I personally am quite annoyed at Liquid just throwing its name all over the place in any and every game nowadays it seems. This just results in subpar teams all around, I dunno why Nazgul feels the need to have a team in so many games.
What games are you referring too? I am a bit out of the loop I guess.
On April 11 2016 00:33 whuderE wrote: Ok so for all the people who weren't around when ibp actually threw the match in question let me fill you in on a few facts.
Ibp had just returned from a month in Europe at which point they were forced to play a match online in cevo that had no implications on their standings (they would finish first in the league regardless). The match was on season a map that was not played in Europe at all and Ibp hadn't played for at least 3 months as they were prepping for international lans.
Furthermore, they were playing netcode guides a team that the ingame leader of ibp (dazed) was a co owner of. Netcode needed a win in order to make playoffs. Funny that no one hates on cevo at all for this even though they allowed this conflict of interest in the first place.
Now tell me your sorry for the people who bet on ibp at 6-1 odds considering all those factors, they deserved to lose their money anyways. Not saying I condone match fixing but it drives me crazy seeing all the people parroting "match fixers shouldn't get a second chance" without knowing any of the context.
Doesn't this happen in F1? I'm pretty sure I've seen some guys let his mate pass in front of him because he had a better placement in the championship. Indeed it's a pretty big mistake from CEVO in the first place.
lots of sports have situations where teams "drop" games or positions to get more favorable draws in the future but that's not really the case here
On April 11 2016 09:50 ItsMeDomLee wrote: When are we going to get a Liquid Lost Vikings team?
Right after a professional Mafia team to compete in Town of Salem web browser game. I personally am quite annoyed at Liquid just throwing its name all over the place in any and every game nowadays it seems. This just results in subpar teams all around, I dunno why Nazgul feels the need to have a team in so many games.
What games are you referring too? I am a bit out of the loop I guess.
Liquid currently has teams/players in: StarCraft II Dota 2 League of Legends Heroes of the Storm Hearthstone Street Fighter Super Smash Bros Melee Super Smash Bros 4 Counter-Strike Call of Duty Halo Overwatch
We're all soldiers now! excited to follow Team Liquid into the overwatch scene. I hope the roster will stay stable to build the kind of player-brand identity the way the SC2 squad has
On April 11 2016 23:08 iloveav wrote: But... this game is not out yet, is it?
I would need to do some checking, but I think pros and teams have started forming long before almost every game’s official release, with the exception of SC2 and LoL.
On April 11 2016 23:08 iloveav wrote: But... this game is not out yet, is it?
I would need to do some checking, but I think pros and teams have started forming long before almost every game’s official release, with the exception of SC2 and LoL.
sc2 had sponsored players during closed beta, most from broodwar teams but there were some new acquisitions. Dota2 TI1 had teams competing but they were all dota 1 teams and then it became public.
On April 11 2016 23:08 iloveav wrote: But... this game is not out yet, is it?
I would need to do some checking, but I think pros and teams have started forming long before almost every game’s official release, with the exception of SC2 and LoL.
thus giving an advantage to already established orgs/players in other games to get a head start in the new game (when it's closed beta)
On April 11 2016 23:08 iloveav wrote: But... this game is not out yet, is it?
I would need to do some checking, but I think pros and teams have started forming long before almost every game’s official release, with the exception of SC2 and LoL.
thus giving an advantage to already established orgs/players in other games to get a head start in the new game (when it's closed beta)
Becoming a member of a quality pro team is very much about who you know and if you are good enough. Nothing can be done to change that.
AZK's statement in the OP doesn't sway me from the opinion that match fixing for personal benefit is one of the most harsh things to do in esports. With the pity point I want to award him, it's A for effort but sadly I cannot believe how letting them swap sports makes their previous actions right. It acknowledges the good spirit of the human heart but if anyone is committed to it, they won't care about that.
I am at a loss at this point, and as much as it is a personal opinion the past will always reflect upon you. At some point, your actions felt justified. At some point, it felt like the right thing to do. How can I comprehend this, and supposedly cheer for this person?
The confusion gets to me, because as much as I thought Liquid was going to make a good move in signing an Overwatch team, I did not think it would be riddled with this level of controversy. Now is the time I wish there was an instance above it all that was able to lay down a final verdict.
Great well I guess stealing is stealing and we will ignore all context and give the guy who stole a chocolate bar the same punishment as the guy who robbed a bank. Or perhaps you think the guy who stole the chocolate bar should get a lifetime ban from shopping in any capacity?
Even murder has different levels of punishment applied based on the circumstances. Savior was the ring leader in a throw ring that shook the top of the pro scene to its core. Ibp throw was an insignifigant online match they should of never had to play in the first place.
Do people really think that the ibp guys deserve to be banned from all pro gaming for life when there was no precedent set before they did what they did?
On April 12 2016 05:28 Erasme wrote: seriously id really like to know how much blizzard is paying tl to have a team in both overwatch and heroes of the storm
Its more like their sponsors are giving them money to maximize their exposure. So more teams in more games= more exposure for the advertisers.
REAllY TL REALLY Azk the matchfixing REALLY and yet yu still have one of the best BW players ban so much bullshit. i mean honestly -.- im starting to agree with TB has said it many times. TL is very shady & not to be trusted.
On April 12 2016 12:03 ANGELIAS1234 wrote: REAllY TL REALLY Azk the matchfixing REALLY and yet yu still have one of the best BW players ban so much bullshit. i mean honestly -.- im starting to agree with TB has said it many times. TL is very shady & not to be trusted.
On April 12 2016 05:28 Erasme wrote: seriously id really like to know how much blizzard is paying tl to have a team in both overwatch and heroes of the storm
Its more like their sponsors are giving them money to maximize their exposure. So more teams in more games= more exposure for the advertisers.
Yeah, I'd assume that TL doesn't need to pay this overwatch team much money overall. So the exposure:cost ratio would be very high!
On April 10 2016 02:52 Deyster wrote: This is interesting, a Valve banned player switching to a Blizzard game. Well, I guess that's his chance of redemption, but I doubt he will manage to escape the past as he will always be reminded of it.
He shouln't try to escape, he should work with it. As in actively working against matchfixing and discouraging people from doing it.
On April 11 2016 23:08 iloveav wrote: But... this game is not out yet, is it?
I would need to do some checking, but I think pros and teams have started forming long before almost every game’s official release, with the exception of SC2 and LoL.
thus giving an advantage to already established orgs/players in other games to get a head start in the new game (when it's closed beta)
and you're beta testing a company's product for them. Changes are bigger during beta compared to after the game is out. So you run the risk of wasting time learning on the "bleeding edge" of the game. You run a much greater risk of learning stuff and spending time on game mechanics that never end up in a real product. You may adapt to a meta that never becomes part of the main game. So its not that great of an advantage.
On April 12 2016 05:05 whuderE wrote: Do people really think that the ibp guys deserve to be banned from all pro gaming for life when there was no precedent set before they did what they did?
Yes. People with the mentality to screw over their own fans should not be able to set a foot again in pro gaming.
On April 13 2016 04:45 Viruuus wrote: This news made me get a refund for my prepurchase. I cant start playing a game 1 month after already some sort of Pro-team is established.
Wont play Overwatch at all now, I don't get Blizzards Betarules tbh.
I honestly don't understand how people get recruited to pro teams in betas. The same problem happened for me in Rainbow Six: Siege. I was one of the top people in beta, barely losing any matches even with random teammates. Hadn't heard anything about pro teams, then a week or two before the release of the game an annoucement was made, "We're inviting and flying out the best teams of the beta to California to compete!!!! etc etc etc" mfw..
Also apparently there's already pro teams and whatnot for the new UT (which is in pre-alpha...) however I can't ever find a match against real people when I play it.
Anyone who was seen as a "first offender" (especially on these forums) time and time again has proven they were not worthy of the trust that was put in them. The games may have changed over the years, but the Testies haven't. People aren't "maphacking" or "matchfixing", they are lying and deceiving and this is a problem of attitude which can't be fixed over the course of a few months or even years. In the BW-times for all the notorious cheaters it took at least 5 years from the point of them getting caught. There may have been less money involved in the foreigner scene then, but way more pride than nowadays.
For those of you who don't know some players...Here is one of Dahangs frag videos. (IMO one of the most well made highlight videos I've seen)... Dahang 2010
EDIT: For those who follow Quakecon...Dahang apparently is only Overwatch now, Rapha might attend...probably an easy 1st place and a bit of cash if he does. If he doesn't it might be Evil's chance to grab 1st in a weaker pool of players. I doubt many EU players will attend this year.
On April 14 2016 20:17 Dubag wrote: For those of you who don't know some players...Here is one of Dahangs frag videos. (IMO one of the most well made highlight videos I've seen)... Dahang 2010
EDIT: For those who follow Quakecon...Dahang apparently is only Overwatch now, Rapha might attend...probably an easy 1st place and a bit of cash if he does. If he doesn't it might be Evil's chance to grab 1st in a weaker pool of players. I doubt many EU players will attend this year.
On April 14 2016 20:17 Dubag wrote: For those of you who don't know some players...Here is one of Dahangs frag videos. (IMO one of the most well made highlight videos I've seen)... Dahang 2010
EDIT: For those who follow Quakecon...Dahang apparently is only Overwatch now, Rapha might attend...probably an easy 1st place and a bit of cash if he does. If he doesn't it might be Evil's chance to grab 1st in a weaker pool of players. I doubt many EU players will attend this year.
wow do watch this even if you don't play quake. The editing is top class
On April 22 2016 08:20 MostGroce wrote: "Pro Players" aka People with the ability to practice the game for a year before anyone else. At least wait for the game to come out... jeez
Normal gamers are going to have to step-in against their muscle memory and familiarity advantages regardless.
^This. There were bunch of players who played OW in open beta for first time and just crushed everyone else. Having good aim from quake/tf really helped a lot.
And I'm sure if you have the opportunity you get dahang on your team in every case, kek.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://runningmagazine.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Womens-1500.jpg)
