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I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Edit: Admin, I didn't see an Overwatch forum. But since this is generally an Sc2 community, I put it here.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account
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On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account
Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against?
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So what? I dont get the point - youre saying by forming a team before the beta ends this gives players less chance to rise to the top?
Thats now how pro teams work, they change their rosters constantly. My guess is they just want a constant team to practice with.
Last of all, you dont need to worry -
Overwatch is going to stay fairly small - like Heroes of the storm compared to dota. Its simply not as fun to watch / play as a shooter like cs go.
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The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers. You also recognize players that are good without outside influence. It's a really neat community, everyone recognizes each other and they're all really nice and friendly. I'm gonna miss that when it's no longer closed beta.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers.
It's almost like some hundreds to maybe a thousand or so people have been cherry picked out to market the game
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Finland947 Posts
On April 10 2016 13:39 weikor wrote:
Overwatch is going to stay fairly small - like Heroes of the storm compared to dota. Its simply not as fun to watch / play as a shooter like cs go.
I think there's tons of potential, actually. The game is fun, it looks good, and the gameplay is varied and interesting. It's certainly very different from CS, which dates back to 1999 (hell, even CS owes a lot to AQ2 and Navy Seals). More modern in many ways.
Of course, there's always the chance that it'll just fizzle out, but I think that there's still room for a TF2-esque shooter. CS fills another, very different niche, and does it very well.
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On April 10 2016 14:11 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers. It's almost like some hundreds to maybe a thousand or so people have been cherry picked out to market the game
I think it only seems like that, because they play very regularly and take it as a job.
The ratio of regular lucky dudes getting in the beta and them also playing the shit out of it is probably fairly small.
For example, I have a friend who got into beta in the first wave, played the game for some hours, really hated the experience and never played the game again. That's one Overwatch beta acc being dormant since the first week of beta.
That may be an extreme example, but because most players with accounts probably play the Overwatch beta only occasionally (which is the reality for most gamers with limited time and interest in multiple games), you end up seeing the hardcore Overwatch beta players quite regularly.
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Take the bull by the horns, I say. Never say no to a possibly foolish investment in a game which's fate we have no way to determine. It's obvious to me that explosive growth at the release of a game can only be a good thing. If it works, the game is better for everybody. If it fails, the game was going to fail anyway. A team of "known quantities" doesn't hinder the ability of anyone to reach the competitive scene. Rather, it gives them someone to beat, whereas in many games, you just get good and no one gives a shit because there's nothing to gain from being good.
Pour money in it, I say. It's not mine.
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On April 10 2016 12:51 SirPinky wrote:
I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
From the newspost:
Understand your reasoning and I'm not sure if it came across like that in my OP, but we aren't picking these guys up just because they were good in other games. We definitely believe in their skillset and potential specifically in Overwatch, which as you say is not at all guaranteed just from their backgrounds. There are certain things you can get from it though such as dedication, personality, and mechanics. These things play a role but are not the defining factor on who to work with.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Edit: Admin, I didn't see an Overwatch forum. But since this is generally an Sc2 community, I put it here.
As for the second part; I understand some may feel this is early. In this case I can't agree with the reasoning given. The idea that it would be demotivating that Liquid has already picked up a roster is completely counterintuitive to how esports actually works. Seeing pros at work pursuing their passion as a career is hugely motivating for new talent. I don't believe for a second that this would somehow overall be demotivating to the general population of ambitious players.
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On April 11 2016 08:05 Djzapz wrote:
Take the bull by the horns, I say. Never say no to a possibly foolish investment in a game which's fate we have no way to determine. It's obvious to me that explosive growth at the release of a game can only be a good thing. If it works, the game is better for everybody. If it fails, the game was going to fail anyway. A team of "known quantities" doesn't hinder the ability of anyone to reach the competitive scene. Rather, it gives them someone to beat, whereas in many games, you just get good and no one gives a shit because there's nothing to gain from being good.
Pour money in it, I say. It's not mine.
Yep. Even a one in 100 chance to have "a NiP" (a team of highly skilled pros from other games, that dominate for a year or so just because they were early) is enough to justify this investment. It's a really easy gamble.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
@Nazgul any comment on the picking up of teams when 99% of people including competitors can't play Overwatch yet?
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United States22883 Posts
On April 10 2016 13:04 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against?
Think of it this way: pro gamers play lots of other games with each other, besides their primary game. When I was in CAL-i, my team still played WoW, L2, TF2 and CoD together. Of course our main game was CS, but the teamwork and communication skills carried over from game to game and we simply enjoyed playing with each other so it worked out. We actually played CoD 1 kind of competitively even though we had zero experience with the game when it came out.
I see no reason that a pro team couldn't form/develop around a current game, and then transition to an upcoming game together. Especially in a game like Overwatch, which is especially teamwork focused even for an FPS game.
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On April 11 2016 14:54 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 13:04 SirPinky wrote:On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against? Think of it this way: pro gamers play lots of other games with each other, besides their primary game. When I was in CAL-i, my team still played WoW, L2, TF2 and CoD together. Of course our main game was CS, but the teamwork and communication skills carried over from game to game and we simply enjoyed playing with each other so it worked out. We actually played CoD 1 kind of competitively even though we had zero experience with the game when it came out. I see no reason that a pro team couldn't form/develop around a current game, and then transition to an upcoming game together. Especially in a game like Overwatch, which is especially teamwork focused even for an FPS game.
I agree, most games I've played I ended up being in the top X% due to the competitive spirit and drive. Friends of me don't even include me in internal rankings because "it's useless to name the top 1, since its mostly you".
I've played Ra2, Cnc3,LotR:BFME(1&2), Cnc:Renegade, CS:S, SC2 (and even a bit of HoMM3), all at either a top level or subtop.
Back in 2012 when there was a game called "ShootMania" it got hyped up in Alpha aswell. Most players in Alpha were either top players from FPS's or other games and you could easily spot the difference in skill and game know-how between the 'first-timers' and the e-sport guru's.
I'm pretty certain that both Shootmania and Overwatch are similar games in skill. You can carry over your teamwork, FPS skills, reaction time, hand-eye coordination over to this new game pretty easily and just stand out of the rest.
I'm currently in the BETA but due to a minor concussion haven't even been able to play it, yet I'm pretty certain that I'm also able to pick this up much quicker than alot of my gamer-friends or most gamers in general.
I'm sorry if this comes across as very arrogant, and maybe it indeed is. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is something called talent in e-sports, which I'm confident that the people at Team Liquid are very good at to spot it.
Don't forget that people like Nazgul used to be on the top of the food-chain in gaming aswell, and I wouldn't be surprised if people like him are also excelling in other games next to RTS.
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I don't understand why this bothers OP so much that he feels obligated to write an "open letter". Like, who cares?
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On April 11 2016 19:09 NukeD wrote:
I don't understand why this bothers OP so much that he feels obligated to write an "open letter". Like, who cares?
He is secretly really really good, if only he got to play the Beta.
Now that there is a TL team his powers have been stolen and he will be average at best, yet in his mind he could have risen to the top and been the new Flash if only pro teams did not form while a game was in Beta.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
@ Gorsameth
why do you feel the need to attack people over showing concern?
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Katowice25012 Posts
This is echoing what Naz said but I'd argue that having top level organizations like Liquid is more motivating, because it sets a very clear goal for players to work towards if they want to be on a prestigious team. The goal of seeing what a large team is doing in the game is far more inspiring as a straight forward path for exactly waht you want to do and where you want to be, rather than trying to form your own team with the idea of "finding the right organization" at a later date. Both are awesome, and integral to what esports is at its core, but the first has a place you can set your sights on and definitive place of what you set your sights on and aim to be in the future.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
If they are shit they will be removed and youl have new people, its great from a marketing perspective, higher chances from a competitive perspective and if they happen to be utterly shit 3 months in when the game gets released they can be removed.
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On April 11 2016 20:19 Cyro wrote:
@ Gorsameth
why do you feel the need to attack people over showing concern?
Because its a concern with no basis in reality and as such deserves no sympathy.
The existence of pro teams, regardless of what state a game is in does not stunt growth at all. If it did then we would not be seeing great players arise months/years after a game is released.
Did all those pro teams that existed when SC2 was still in beta prevent new players from quickly rising to the top?
Did it stop players in Heroes of the Storm?
No, it didn't and Overwatch is no different.
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EPT
