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I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Edit: Admin, I didn't see an Overwatch forum. But since this is generally an Sc2 community, I put it here.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account
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On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account
Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against?
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So what? I dont get the point - youre saying by forming a team before the beta ends this gives players less chance to rise to the top?
Thats now how pro teams work, they change their rosters constantly. My guess is they just want a constant team to practice with.
Last of all, you dont need to worry -
Overwatch is going to stay fairly small - like Heroes of the storm compared to dota. Its simply not as fun to watch / play as a shooter like cs go.
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The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers. You also recognize players that are good without outside influence. It's a really neat community, everyone recognizes each other and they're all really nice and friendly. I'm gonna miss that when it's no longer closed beta.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers.
It's almost like some hundreds to maybe a thousand or so people have been cherry picked out to market the game
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Finland948 Posts
On April 10 2016 13:39 weikor wrote:
Overwatch is going to stay fairly small - like Heroes of the storm compared to dota. Its simply not as fun to watch / play as a shooter like cs go.
I think there's tons of potential, actually. The game is fun, it looks good, and the gameplay is varied and interesting. It's certainly very different from CS, which dates back to 1999 (hell, even CS owes a lot to AQ2 and Navy Seals). More modern in many ways.
Of course, there's always the chance that it'll just fizzle out, but I think that there's still room for a TF2-esque shooter. CS fills another, very different niche, and does it very well.
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On April 10 2016 14:11 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +The player pool is incredibly tiny in beta right now. I constantly face again the same people during late nights. It's actually quite nice cause a good amount of them are big twitch steamers or youtubers. It's almost like some hundreds to maybe a thousand or so people have been cherry picked out to market the game
I think it only seems like that, because they play very regularly and take it as a job.
The ratio of regular lucky dudes getting in the beta and them also playing the shit out of it is probably fairly small.
For example, I have a friend who got into beta in the first wave, played the game for some hours, really hated the experience and never played the game again. That's one Overwatch beta acc being dormant since the first week of beta.
That may be an extreme example, but because most players with accounts probably play the Overwatch beta only occasionally (which is the reality for most gamers with limited time and interest in multiple games), you end up seeing the hardcore Overwatch beta players quite regularly.
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Take the bull by the horns, I say. Never say no to a possibly foolish investment in a game which's fate we have no way to determine. It's obvious to me that explosive growth at the release of a game can only be a good thing. If it works, the game is better for everybody. If it fails, the game was going to fail anyway. A team of "known quantities" doesn't hinder the ability of anyone to reach the competitive scene. Rather, it gives them someone to beat, whereas in many games, you just get good and no one gives a shit because there's nothing to gain from being good.
Pour money in it, I say. It's not mine.
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On April 10 2016 12:51 SirPinky wrote:
I read your post about a new team sponsored by TL for the new Blizzard game, Overwatch.
Anytime there is sponsorship within e-sports I am excited since it promotes fiscal growth within the community; however, I wonder, isn’t this premature? The game has been in the beta stages for several months. Characters are not completely balanced and/or developed, there is still a lack of understanding of the roles, and the game is still evolving. I know Team Liquid wants to make its mark early, but isn’t part of the camaraderie and exhilaration of a new game working to be the best? How can Team Liquid make its roster on a new game based off previous FPS games? That would assume all FPS games are created equal and follow the same formula. This is not the case.
From the newspost:
Understand your reasoning and I'm not sure if it came across like that in my OP, but we aren't picking these guys up just because they were good in other games. We definitely believe in their skillset and potential specifically in Overwatch, which as you say is not at all guaranteed just from their backgrounds. There are certain things you can get from it though such as dedication, personality, and mechanics. These things play a role but are not the defining factor on who to work with.
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
I will not be one of those great players, as my hands are too crippled from playing Broodwar/SC, in the early 2000s, in my college days. I also enjoyed the bunny hopping before it was patched. But I never saw “pro” teams created before it was even out. It kind of defeats the purpose of trying to be “the best” when you have people retained on contract before we even see the game.
Edit: Admin, I didn't see an Overwatch forum. But since this is generally an Sc2 community, I put it here.
As for the second part; I understand some may feel this is early. In this case I can't agree with the reasoning given. The idea that it would be demotivating that Liquid has already picked up a roster is completely counterintuitive to how esports actually works. Seeing pros at work pursuing their passion as a career is hugely motivating for new talent. I don't believe for a second that this would somehow overall be demotivating to the general population of ambitious players.
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On April 11 2016 08:05 Djzapz wrote:
Take the bull by the horns, I say. Never say no to a possibly foolish investment in a game which's fate we have no way to determine. It's obvious to me that explosive growth at the release of a game can only be a good thing. If it works, the game is better for everybody. If it fails, the game was going to fail anyway. A team of "known quantities" doesn't hinder the ability of anyone to reach the competitive scene. Rather, it gives them someone to beat, whereas in many games, you just get good and no one gives a shit because there's nothing to gain from being good.
Pour money in it, I say. It's not mine.
Yep. Even a one in 100 chance to have "a NiP" (a team of highly skilled pros from other games, that dominate for a year or so just because they were early) is enough to justify this investment. It's a really easy gamble.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
@Nazgul any comment on the picking up of teams when 99% of people including competitors can't play Overwatch yet?
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United States22883 Posts
On April 10 2016 13:04 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against?
Think of it this way: pro gamers play lots of other games with each other, besides their primary game. When I was in CAL-i, my team still played WoW, L2, TF2 and CoD together. Of course our main game was CS, but the teamwork and communication skills carried over from game to game and we simply enjoyed playing with each other so it worked out. We actually played CoD 1 kind of competitively even though we had zero experience with the game when it came out.
I see no reason that a pro team couldn't form/develop around a current game, and then transition to an upcoming game together. Especially in a game like Overwatch, which is especially teamwork focused even for an FPS game.
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On April 11 2016 14:54 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 13:04 SirPinky wrote:On April 10 2016 12:52 Cyro wrote:
Before it is even playable to the 99% of players (and not as in the bottom 99% of skill.. 99% of players, regardless of how good they are)
There's no way to actually play the game for these last few months outside of:
* being extremely lucky
* personally knowing a blizzard employee
* several dishonest and bannable offenses including paying money for access to somebody elses battle.net account Agreed. Beta was EXTREMELY tight. I don't follow anyone on the roster; I could care less about their "dirt" or their previous experience - this is a NEW game. But when I see someone is practicing "everyday". Really? Who is that against? Think of it this way: pro gamers play lots of other games with each other, besides their primary game. When I was in CAL-i, my team still played WoW, L2, TF2 and CoD together. Of course our main game was CS, but the teamwork and communication skills carried over from game to game and we simply enjoyed playing with each other so it worked out. We actually played CoD 1 kind of competitively even though we had zero experience with the game when it came out. I see no reason that a pro team couldn't form/develop around a current game, and then transition to an upcoming game together. Especially in a game like Overwatch, which is especially teamwork focused even for an FPS game.
I agree, most games I've played I ended up being in the top X% due to the competitive spirit and drive. Friends of me don't even include me in internal rankings because "it's useless to name the top 1, since its mostly you".
I've played Ra2, Cnc3,LotR:BFME(1&2), Cnc:Renegade, CS:S, SC2 (and even a bit of HoMM3), all at either a top level or subtop.
Back in 2012 when there was a game called "ShootMania" it got hyped up in Alpha aswell. Most players in Alpha were either top players from FPS's or other games and you could easily spot the difference in skill and game know-how between the 'first-timers' and the e-sport guru's.
I'm pretty certain that both Shootmania and Overwatch are similar games in skill. You can carry over your teamwork, FPS skills, reaction time, hand-eye coordination over to this new game pretty easily and just stand out of the rest.
I'm currently in the BETA but due to a minor concussion haven't even been able to play it, yet I'm pretty certain that I'm also able to pick this up much quicker than alot of my gamer-friends or most gamers in general.
I'm sorry if this comes across as very arrogant, and maybe it indeed is. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is something called talent in e-sports, which I'm confident that the people at Team Liquid are very good at to spot it.
Don't forget that people like Nazgul used to be on the top of the food-chain in gaming aswell, and I wouldn't be surprised if people like him are also excelling in other games next to RTS.
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I don't understand why this bothers OP so much that he feels obligated to write an "open letter". Like, who cares?
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On April 11 2016 19:09 NukeD wrote:
I don't understand why this bothers OP so much that he feels obligated to write an "open letter". Like, who cares?
He is secretly really really good, if only he got to play the Beta.
Now that there is a TL team his powers have been stolen and he will be average at best, yet in his mind he could have risen to the top and been the new Flash if only pro teams did not form while a game was in Beta.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
@ Gorsameth
why do you feel the need to attack people over showing concern?
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Katowice25012 Posts
This is echoing what Naz said but I'd argue that having top level organizations like Liquid is more motivating, because it sets a very clear goal for players to work towards if they want to be on a prestigious team. The goal of seeing what a large team is doing in the game is far more inspiring as a straight forward path for exactly waht you want to do and where you want to be, rather than trying to form your own team with the idea of "finding the right organization" at a later date. Both are awesome, and integral to what esports is at its core, but the first has a place you can set your sights on and definitive place of what you set your sights on and aim to be in the future.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
If they are shit they will be removed and youl have new people, its great from a marketing perspective, higher chances from a competitive perspective and if they happen to be utterly shit 3 months in when the game gets released they can be removed.
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On April 11 2016 20:19 Cyro wrote:
@ Gorsameth
why do you feel the need to attack people over showing concern?
Because its a concern with no basis in reality and as such deserves no sympathy.
The existence of pro teams, regardless of what state a game is in does not stunt growth at all. If it did then we would not be seeing great players arise months/years after a game is released.
Did all those pro teams that existed when SC2 was still in beta prevent new players from quickly rising to the top?
Did it stop players in Heroes of the Storm?
No, it didn't and Overwatch is no different.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Because its a concern with no basis in reality and as such deserves no sympathy.
Even if you believe that, it's a bit of a leap to attack people for your beliefs
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If I may add, Dota 2 has been played competitively while it was still in Beta! Even a million dollar tournament (TI1) was held while the game wasn't fully developed yet. I don't see any point why should it be bad to form teams in a beta-phase. If anything, it hypes the game for a larger player base later on after the release and more importantly, it gives the developers much needed data on how the game would look like under professional and competitive circumstances. This in turn will increase the overall quality a lot! And that's for ALL OF US who want to eventually play the game. Just watching random guys play for fun will result in different stats and possibly a worse balance within the game. So I really really welcome developments like Liquid Overwatch. I get hyped up for playing the game myself and it is just really entertaining watching pros play that game. A game which potentially will be better because these pros played it competitively (aka in a funded team) even before its release.
I appreciate your concerns, but I don't share them at all since I see much more pros than cons to this.
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Difference being dota 2 was in "beta" for years and became open access pretty early on.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
It's more about the "99% of people that want to compete can't play" than the "beta" tag. Dota 2 was not at all like that.
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On April 11 2016 14:25 Cyro wrote:
@Nazgul any comment on the picking up of teams when 99% of people including competitors can't play Overwatch yet?
I would love to, but you're just stating a fact. It appears you feel something is wrong with that, but don't explain what that is. I legitimately don't see the problem at the moment. Looking forward to hearing your concerns though, don't mind thinking about another perspective. For reference we picked up TLO and Jinro three months before official release, and I legitimately am confused why that would have been a bad thing. Just don't see it, sorry.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Picking up a team for a game like this sends a very different message, that you're committing to these players and nobody else for a significant period of time. Starcraft 2 is a group of individual players that you can pick out one at a time but an Overwatch team is a team, it's often all or nothing.
Given that the players in the beta are either exceptionally lucky (the closed beta seems to be hundreds to a few thousand out of what could be a 7 figure playerbase) or breaking rules under the table (such as the bannable account sharing + buying which is rampant in WoW & overwatch) it seems wrong to me.
I wasn't into sc2 pre-release so i'm not sure how the beta was handled. For the Legacy beta, TL and other organizations were given keys to use and hand out and for a long time before release everybody had the opportunity to preorder-buy into playing if they wanted to compete, so it was a completely different situation.
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The SC2 beta was close to the Overwatch beta, except it lacked the twitch streaming element. But there was nothing fair about it. I remember getting my key from pre-ordering SC2 and people had already been playing for months upon months. Some people were lucky and got early access.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
There's another part of this that people aren't considering: there's a lot of organizations who have already picked up teams for Overwatch and if TL didn't sign a team before the game actually came out most of the good players would already be signed. TL is still a business, and being the last one to get into the market is always bad. Just check the Liquipedia Portal here for a list of teams and look at all the big names who have also already signed teams. Whether or not you think it's too early/unfair to sign players in an exclusive beta it's already happened and that's how it's probably going to go with all would-be esports titles from now on.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
most of the good players would already be signed
In a month the playerbase is going to increase dramatically, 20x - 100x or more. That includes more esport-tier players than the everyone that's in overwatch right now
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On April 12 2016 03:48 Cyro wrote:In a month the playerbase is going to increase dramatically, 20x - 100x or more. That includes more esport-tier players than the everyone that's in overwatch right now
Ok, why does TL care? They are signing a team now with people they can work with, as opposed to later when everyone has access. What are they supposed to do, wait until the game is out for 2 months so people cut their teeth and the cream can rise to the top? Or is it three months? What completely arbitrary date would you like to set before they can sign a team?
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
What are they supposed to do, wait until the game is out for 2 months so people cut their teeth and the cream can rise to the top? Or is it three months?
It's 1 month for the game to go from a tiny random super closed-off playerbase to all esports players playing. Seems worth the wait to me if you're not going to sign any more players after the initial selection.
Ok, why does TL care?
Why would TL not care about who they're selecting?
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I'm fine with picking up a roster this early, but I have a much bigger with a proven match fixer on the roster
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On April 12 2016 04:03 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +What are they supposed to do, wait until the game is out for 2 months so people cut their teeth and the cream can rise to the top? Or is it three months? It's 1 month for the game to go from a tiny niche random playerbase to all esports players being able to play. Seems worth the wait to me if you're not going to sign any more players after the initial selection. Why would they not care, in particular? You're wording that as if the default is nobody caring
The owner of TL has posted several times about their business decision and found none of these arguments compelling. Yet you continue to make them like they are new and original. There is no reason for them to wait to sign a team, since they can always update their roster. Your entire argument seems to be based on your personal metric for what is fair.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Bigger & better selection of players is more important than it being fair. A lot of people agree in the liquid overwatch thread
There is no reason for them to wait to sign a team, since they can always update their roster.
Messy to kick half a team, messier to kick a whole team
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On April 12 2016 04:14 Cyro wrote:
bigger & better selection of players is more important than it being fair
TL clearly feels differently, as they have stated above. So they do not agree with your assessment of the situation or opinion on when they should form a team. They can always let members go that are not working out and sign new talent if necessary, as with every single team sport on the planet.
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On April 12 2016 03:48 Cyro wrote:In a month the playerbase is going to increase dramatically, 20x - 100x or more. That includes more esport-tier players than the everyone that's in overwatch right now
I'm fairly certain that those who are at the top right now will be there for some time after launch though. New stars from the wave of players will rise for sure but there will be a delay and many of these people will still stay relevant because they do also have track record that shows they have great potential in this title.
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Wasn't SC2 post-launched mainly dominated by players who participated in beta?
I think that saying it doesn't matter if you don't get beta access is just wrong. You are up against players with months of practice already, and while you can still rise to the top, you'll still have to put in many more hours than anyone else to catch up.
No one is born a progamer for any game.
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On April 13 2016 00:42 KeksX wrote:
Wasn't SC2 post-launched mainly dominated by players who participated in beta?
I think that saying it doesn't matter if you don't get beta access is just wrong. You are up against players with months of practice already, and while you can still rise to the top, you'll still have to put in many more hours than anyone else to catch up.
No one is born a progamer for any game.
It helped them yes and you can certainly argue that for example Fruitdealer won the first GSL because of this headstart but this disappears in a few months, which is also why TL signed a team now, because if they wait for the new "real" stars to rise they miss out on the first few months of tournaments and at the end of the day the pro-gaming side of TL is a business.
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On April 10 2016 12:51 SirPinky wrote:
Gamers like to believe that they, either one person or many, can rise to the top of the ladder (or any ranking system) with hard work, skill and perseverance. In my opinion, making a team before the game is even released adds a certain futility to the hope gamers can someday be part of a well-respected team, like Team Liquid. It narrows the ability for future, better, gamers to work their way to the top echelon of gameplay.
On April 12 2016 02:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 14:25 Cyro wrote:
@Nazgul any comment on the picking up of teams when 99% of people including competitors can't play Overwatch yet? I would love to, but you're just stating a fact. It appears you feel something is wrong with that, but don't explain what that is. I legitimately don't see the problem at the moment. Looking forward to hearing your concerns though, don't mind thinking about another perspective. For reference we picked up TLO and Jinro three months before official release, and I legitimately am confused why that would have been a bad thing. Just don't see it, sorry.
If I may. I think I can parse the concern / complaint of the OP and explain why he thinks this is a "bad thing."
Going into the release of Overwatch there was an illusion among some gamers of an "even playing field". They believed that if they picked up the game on release and played a lot - and played well, that they could rise to the top of the field and become pro. While this belief isn't entirely crushed by the formation of a pro team prior to release it certainly puts to lie the "even playing field" myth.
Comparisons to the release of Starcraft 2 (Jinro TLO etc...) are not very applicable to this situation. There were no myths of an equal starting point there. SC2 was an obvious successor to SC Broodwar and WC3 so it was equally obvious that progamers from those former titles would have a leg up on the common gamers. Gamers that saw SC2 release, knowing that they would never be good enough to turn pro, looked forwards to the next Blizzard title for their "big break."
Another difference between Overwatch and SC2 is that an SC2 team can always pick up another player if they are outstanding on the ladder. Roster size is unlimited. Not so much in Overwatch. SC2 is all about individual success - whereas success in Overwatch will rely greatly upon team chemistry and cohesion. All of this means that in Overwatch - it appears less hopeful for solo queue stars to be added to a pro team.
There is no reason that someone who has never played at a pro-level in another esport can't become pro in Overwatch through practice and determination - but having already named the Team Liquid roster puts into perspective the uphill battle that they face to achieve that success. This can be disheartening.
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I can see why it may be disheartening to an aspiring pro without a beta key, but I am not sure what you would want me to do about it or why it is relevant to us picking up a team. I don't see anyone bothering to show why the two are connected when it comes to Liquid picking up a team. It is probably disheartening to an aspiring pro that there are no replays in LoL, but that is no reason for teams not to pick up players. I'm also imagining 99% of the planet not having money to pursue car racing. It sucks and the sport has to deal with that when it comes to fans. It is however no reason for a car racing team not to pick up talent if they are in the business of running a sport team. Overwatch as a sport has to figure out how to popularize it and have as much fan appeal as possible.
Just to be perfectly clear when the game is out officially the group that has pro potential, but does not have beta access, isn't going to be good from day one of public release at all. They're going to need time to catch up with the players who already had access. One month into full release they will be nowhere close to guys playing for half a year. Two months they will be nowhere close, either. So you are asking us to wait.. how long exactly? Sounds like we would have to wait one or two years after public release just to give the entire player base a chance. And then after that young kids will come along who will have started three years post release. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not saying we must get in this early, but these arguments that we shouldn't because not everyone has access are nonsensical. If there's a good team to pickup that we believe in then we should do so, beta or no beta.
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else. There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.
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On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else.
I think this discussion has to do a lot with the fact that Alpha's and Beta's are much more known and viewable nowadays.
The top players of games always have been invited to Alpha's and Beta's (as you know), yet most of the time we had to sign strict NDA's, where streaming (didn't really exist yet), screenshots, publicly talking about it, previews, reviews were all banned. Most Alpha's consisted of a few hundred players maximum. Depending no the developer, Beta's were much less strict and most of the time a chunk bigger.
Forward to 2016 and we see Beta's getting 1000's of players (Hearthstone, Sc2, Dota), including streams, previews etc.
In contrast to how a Beta used to be, the Beta's we have now, are 99% of the final product itself and they are becoming some sort of advertisement/balance mechanic.
Hell, even payment methods are available in most Beta's, which still amazes me to this day...
Long story short, the way games are produced has changed and Alpha's & Beta's are different from what they used to be, with things like Twitch.
I went back in memory lane (my hotmail account) and quickly found lines like this :
"This Beta test is still under strict NDA. Please do not discuss it outside of our Private Beta Forums"
"This NDA implies that the test pilot may not hand out such confidential information to any third party, such as private individuals, companies, authorities and organizations i.e. to friends, to magazines or YouTube. This agreement applies one year from the day of signing."
There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.
The same reason that ex-TF2 players will be monsters at OW, even without early access.
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On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else. There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.
I think what the OP is focusing on is the fact that there's a pool of pro talent out there, and those with contacts to Blizzard have a massive advantage because they get into the Beta earlier(and for some - at all. Especially unknown EU players pretty much don't get beta access unless they're terribly lucky). It's more of a criticism towards Blizzard's beta policy.
If you are part of the newcomer pro talent out there but have no contact to Blizzard, the chances of you getting pro is lower than those with months of access already.
This also results in NA essentially having a headstart, due to them having an advantage in the whole beta process by Blizzard.
You are still right. Many players have proven themselves way before they got early access, and they deserve it. But do you think that automatically means they would have been ahead of the curve to the same degree had they started at the release of the game? They still benefit from the fact that they got access before anyone else did. They might not benefit as much - because the majority of their skill translates over to the game - but it's still an advantage making it even worse for new talent to catch up.
But as you said, you as a progaming team can't really wait and you want to be on top of things. And while the premise of eSports is that everyone is on equal footing, you can't not take advantage of these players that show promise to you. Thats perfectly understandable and nothing you have to excuse yourself for.
In fact, I think the open letter is directed at the wrong company. It's not Liquid that should be criticized for this, it's Blizzard.
The solution to the problem isn't anything that pro teams can do. Because it boils down to Blizzard opening the beta process and giving everyone a fair chance.
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Sorry Nazgul, I didn't mean to imply that you had done anything wrong. I wasn't criticizing the fact that you have picked a team. I think it's great that Liquid has a team and that will likely give the pro scene a good jump-start. I was just trying to explain what I felt the OP was complaining about.
What I really was criticizing was the mindset of gamers. I don't want to hold myself aloof - I think many of the same things. Life isn't fair and neither is the gaming industry - we just need to man up and get over it. People like people that they know (duh). Of course the established pros are going to get into the first teams in Overwatch. This isn't something that we should react negatively against, even if it feels in your gut like a window of opportunity is closing.
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EPT
