• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:43
CEST 21:43
KST 04:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon255.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes28Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch2[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup In Early July MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! INu's Battles#17 <BO.9>
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool First season(s) of tastosis gomtv gsl vods? Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Men's Fashion Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4563 users

Open Letter to Team Liquid on Overwatch - Page 3

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
April 13 2016 08:58 GMT
#41
On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else.


I think this discussion has to do a lot with the fact that Alpha's and Beta's are much more known and viewable nowadays.

The top players of games always have been invited to Alpha's and Beta's (as you know), yet most of the time we had to sign strict NDA's, where streaming (didn't really exist yet), screenshots, publicly talking about it, previews, reviews were all banned. Most Alpha's consisted of a few hundred players maximum. Depending no the developer, Beta's were much less strict and most of the time a chunk bigger.

Forward to 2016 and we see Beta's getting 1000's of players (Hearthstone, Sc2, Dota), including streams, previews etc.
In contrast to how a Beta used to be, the Beta's we have now, are 99% of the final product itself and they are becoming some sort of advertisement/balance mechanic.
Hell, even payment methods are available in most Beta's, which still amazes me to this day...

Long story short, the way games are produced has changed and Alpha's & Beta's are different from what they used to be, with things like Twitch.
I went back in memory lane (my hotmail account) and quickly found lines like this :
"This Beta test is still under strict NDA. Please do not discuss it outside of our Private Beta Forums"
"This NDA implies that the test pilot may not hand out such confidential information to any third party, such as private individuals, companies, authorities and organizations i.e. to friends, to magazines or YouTube. This agreement applies one year from the day of signing."

There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.


The same reason that ex-TF2 players will be monsters at OW, even without early access.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-13 11:37:45
April 13 2016 11:30 GMT
#42
On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else. There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.


I think what the OP is focusing on is the fact that there's a pool of pro talent out there, and those with contacts to Blizzard have a massive advantage because they get into the Beta earlier(and for some - at all. Especially unknown EU players pretty much don't get beta access unless they're terribly lucky). It's more of a criticism towards Blizzard's beta policy.
If you are part of the newcomer pro talent out there but have no contact to Blizzard, the chances of you getting pro is lower than those with months of access already.
This also results in NA essentially having a headstart, due to them having an advantage in the whole beta process by Blizzard.

You are still right. Many players have proven themselves way before they got early access, and they deserve it. But do you think that automatically means they would have been ahead of the curve to the same degree had they started at the release of the game? They still benefit from the fact that they got access before anyone else did. They might not benefit as much - because the majority of their skill translates over to the game - but it's still an advantage making it even worse for new talent to catch up.

But as you said, you as a progaming team can't really wait and you want to be on top of things. And while the premise of eSports is that everyone is on equal footing, you can't not take advantage of these players that show promise to you. Thats perfectly understandable and nothing you have to excuse yourself for.

In fact, I think the open letter is directed at the wrong company. It's not Liquid that should be criticized for this, it's Blizzard.
The solution to the problem isn't anything that pro teams can do. Because it boils down to Blizzard opening the beta process and giving everyone a fair chance.

eScapegoat100
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada71 Posts
April 14 2016 19:06 GMT
#43
Sorry Nazgul, I didn't mean to imply that you had done anything wrong. I wasn't criticizing the fact that you have picked a team. I think it's great that Liquid has a team and that will likely give the pro scene a good jump-start. I was just trying to explain what I felt the OP was complaining about.

What I really was criticizing was the mindset of gamers. I don't want to hold myself aloof - I think many of the same things. Life isn't fair and neither is the gaming industry - we just need to man up and get over it. People like people that they know (duh). Of course the established pros are going to get into the first teams in Overwatch. This isn't something that we should react negatively against, even if it feels in your gut like a window of opportunity is closing.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg></a></p>
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CrankTV Team League
11:00
Crank Gathers S4: Qualifiers
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 285
IndyStarCraft 159
Railgan 131
MindelVK 42
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 608
Soulkey 506
Jaedong 360
Dewaltoss 83
hero 70
sorry 41
Free 39
Rock 18
Hm[arnc] 18
Bale 8
Counter-Strike
fl0m1737
kRYSTAL_65
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu261
Other Games
Grubby3093
FrodaN1184
byalli346
Sick182
C9.Mang0143
ArmadaUGS110
UpATreeSC64
Mew2King53
Trikslyr50
Chillindude20
JuggernautJason19
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV228
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream212
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1006
Other Games
• imaqtpie786
• Shiphtur413
Upcoming Events
Bombastic Starleague
17m
The PondCast
14h 17m
HomeStory Cup
15h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
HomeStory Cup
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W1
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.