• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:30
CET 19:30
KST 03:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1163 users

Open Letter to Team Liquid on Overwatch - Page 3

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
April 13 2016 08:58 GMT
#41
On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else.


I think this discussion has to do a lot with the fact that Alpha's and Beta's are much more known and viewable nowadays.

The top players of games always have been invited to Alpha's and Beta's (as you know), yet most of the time we had to sign strict NDA's, where streaming (didn't really exist yet), screenshots, publicly talking about it, previews, reviews were all banned. Most Alpha's consisted of a few hundred players maximum. Depending no the developer, Beta's were much less strict and most of the time a chunk bigger.

Forward to 2016 and we see Beta's getting 1000's of players (Hearthstone, Sc2, Dota), including streams, previews etc.
In contrast to how a Beta used to be, the Beta's we have now, are 99% of the final product itself and they are becoming some sort of advertisement/balance mechanic.
Hell, even payment methods are available in most Beta's, which still amazes me to this day...

Long story short, the way games are produced has changed and Alpha's & Beta's are different from what they used to be, with things like Twitch.
I went back in memory lane (my hotmail account) and quickly found lines like this :
"This Beta test is still under strict NDA. Please do not discuss it outside of our Private Beta Forums"
"This NDA implies that the test pilot may not hand out such confidential information to any third party, such as private individuals, companies, authorities and organizations i.e. to friends, to magazines or YouTube. This agreement applies one year from the day of signing."

There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.


The same reason that ex-TF2 players will be monsters at OW, even without early access.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-13 11:37:45
April 13 2016 11:30 GMT
#42
On April 13 2016 10:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I also think this whole discussion does not give nearly the appropriate amount of credit to the players that get early access. Most players that have a reputation for hard work and skill in similar games will be able to get access. They have put years into developing those skillsets, similar to how that was the case for SC1/SC2. Your new talent from Overwatch that plays itself to the top throughout the years will be able to do the same if they ever decide to transition into something else. There's a reason why these ex-TF2 players are all monsters at OW, and I can tell you it is not because they had early access.


I think what the OP is focusing on is the fact that there's a pool of pro talent out there, and those with contacts to Blizzard have a massive advantage because they get into the Beta earlier(and for some - at all. Especially unknown EU players pretty much don't get beta access unless they're terribly lucky). It's more of a criticism towards Blizzard's beta policy.
If you are part of the newcomer pro talent out there but have no contact to Blizzard, the chances of you getting pro is lower than those with months of access already.
This also results in NA essentially having a headstart, due to them having an advantage in the whole beta process by Blizzard.

You are still right. Many players have proven themselves way before they got early access, and they deserve it. But do you think that automatically means they would have been ahead of the curve to the same degree had they started at the release of the game? They still benefit from the fact that they got access before anyone else did. They might not benefit as much - because the majority of their skill translates over to the game - but it's still an advantage making it even worse for new talent to catch up.

But as you said, you as a progaming team can't really wait and you want to be on top of things. And while the premise of eSports is that everyone is on equal footing, you can't not take advantage of these players that show promise to you. Thats perfectly understandable and nothing you have to excuse yourself for.

In fact, I think the open letter is directed at the wrong company. It's not Liquid that should be criticized for this, it's Blizzard.
The solution to the problem isn't anything that pro teams can do. Because it boils down to Blizzard opening the beta process and giving everyone a fair chance.

eScapegoat100
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada71 Posts
April 14 2016 19:06 GMT
#43
Sorry Nazgul, I didn't mean to imply that you had done anything wrong. I wasn't criticizing the fact that you have picked a team. I think it's great that Liquid has a team and that will likely give the pro scene a good jump-start. I was just trying to explain what I felt the OP was complaining about.

What I really was criticizing was the mindset of gamers. I don't want to hold myself aloof - I think many of the same things. Life isn't fair and neither is the gaming industry - we just need to man up and get over it. People like people that they know (duh). Of course the established pros are going to get into the first teams in Overwatch. This isn't something that we should react negatively against, even if it feels in your gut like a window of opportunity is closing.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg></a></p>
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
Season 13 World Championship
GgMaChine vs MixuLIVE!
WardiTV1093
IndyStarCraft 223
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 223
JuggernautJason74
BRAT_OK 73
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28646
Shuttle 668
EffOrt 377
firebathero 200
Dewaltoss 118
Rock 48
scan(afreeca) 12
Shine 11
Dota 2
420jenkins812
Counter-Strike
adren_tv8
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu404
Other Games
Grubby3927
Liquid`RaSZi2089
FrodaN1817
ceh9584
Mlord538
B2W.Neo259
JimRising 254
Fuzer 237
DeMusliM213
KnowMe115
QueenE72
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick44079
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• naamasc247
• Adnapsc2 7
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV604
League of Legends
• Nemesis2352
Other Games
• imaqtpie1491
• Shiphtur300
Upcoming Events
SOOP
1d 9h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
1d 15h
Wardi Open
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
3 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-06
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.