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On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way.
Emotionally gripping news stories sell copies, and racially-charged narratives draw clicks. That's why this case is getting so much attention. Juries make mistakes from time to time, and it's not usually national news.
And of course, politicians were quick to jump on the issue to score a few cheap points...
I'm having a hard time finding details about the shooting, as the news stories are all focusing on the racial element of the jury selection instead of the facts of the case (why ever would those need to be reported on... ffs).
That said, no one seems to have demonstrated that lethal force was necessary, even if the guy was trying to steal a truck. The farmer should have been convicted of murder.
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On February 13 2018 09:40 Fprime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. Emotionally gripping news stories sell copies, and racially-charged narratives draw clicks. That's why this case is getting so much attention. Juries make mistakes from time to time, and it's not usually national news. And of course, politicians were quick to jump on the issue to score a few cheap points... I'm having a hard time finding details about the shooting, as the news stories are all focusing on the racial element of the jury selection instead of the facts of the case (why ever would those need to be reported on... ffs). That said, no one seems to have demonstrated that lethal force was necessary, even if the guy was trying to steal a truck. The farmer should have been convicted of murder.
It is a political issue though. I wouldnt call politicians jumping on it scoring cheap points. Although there probably is an element of point scoring involved. The indigenous communities arent stupid though. Just calling for stuff doesnt mean jack shit to them anymore.
Law making is done at the Federal level and its still a travesty that a guy can cross a red light ht someone, kill them and then just get a fine and some community service.
This particular case to me falls in roughly the same bucket as the above example. L
There is nothing wrong with the verdict legally. But then the claim is that perhaps we should review why it is that it can be this way.
Besides all pretty boy said was that we need to do better. Jury's making mistakes should be national news. Especially when peoples lives or fatalities are involved. This isn't the US after all where people argue whether a problem exists or not and between all the noise nothing happens.
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On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case.
There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election.
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On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election.
Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke.
These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment?
This is extremely worrisome if true.
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On February 13 2018 14:38 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election. Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke. These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment? This is extremely worrisome if true.
So trying to associate me with hard right news outlets even though there is no reason to do so? No moderate or anyone even normal that is left or right of center has been okay with the attention our country is getting because of this so-called joke.
Do you really want Canada to be associated with someone who brings this kind of international spotlight to the country?
This is extremely worrisome if true
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Canada11583 Posts
Well, that's an easy thing to say- these people we don't like also had a problem with it, therefore if you do as well, you are aligning yourself with people we don't like.
But the reality is, it was a stupid thing for him to say. It doesn't take a ridiculously outraged Piers "How Dare You" Morgan to see that. It was not taken as a joke when he said it- he got a great cheer from the crowd- the woman on the mic as well took him unironically. It was a silly thing to say, but he isn't being very honest about his original meaning. Why does it matter? Not really very much, except I think it is indicative of Trudeau's fairly surface-level thinking: I don't think he would be accused of being a great intellectual heavy weight for feminism. He's better at hashtag-feminism.
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On February 13 2018 16:36 Falling wrote:
Well, that's an easy thing to say- these people we don't like also had a problem with it, therefore if you do as well, you are aligning yourself with people we don't like.
But the reality is, it was a stupid thing for him to say. It doesn't take a ridiculously outraged Piers "How Dare You" Morgan to see that. It was not taken as a joke when he said it- he got a great cheer from the crowd- the woman on the mic as well took him unironically. It was a silly thing to say, but he isn't being very honest about his original meaning. Why does it matter? Not really very much, except I think it is indicative of Trudeau's fairly surface-level thinking: I don't think he would be accused of being a great intellectual heavy weight for feminism. He's better at hashtag-feminism.
Agreed. Ultimately we can never prove whether or not he originally meant it as a joke as he now claims, and subjectively I think he called it a joke when he saw the backlash to it. Any politician would have done the same 180, given the circumstances.
Also, for the record, the word "humanity" is a far better gender-neutral way to refer to our species than "peoplekind".
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On February 13 2018 16:08 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 14:38 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election. Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke. These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment? This is extremely worrisome if true. So trying to associate me with hard right news outlets even though there is no reason to do so? No moderate or anyone even normal that is left or right of center has been okay with the attention our country is getting because of this so-called joke. Do you really want Canada to be associated with someone who brings this kind of international spotlight to the country? This is extremely worrisome if true
I didnt try to associate anything I asked a question based on the fact that your ire seemed more in line with them than anyone closer to right or center or you know possessing basic human decency.
Whatever insecurity you project on yourself out of that is not my issue.
On February 13 2018 16:36 Falling wrote:
Well, that's an easy thing to say- these people we don't like also had a problem with it, therefore if you do as well, you are aligning yourself with people we don't like.
But the reality is, it was a stupid thing for him to say. It doesn't take a ridiculously outraged Piers "How Dare You" Morgan to see that. It was not taken as a joke when he said it- he got a great cheer from the crowd- the woman on the mic as well took him unironically. It was a silly thing to say, but he isn't being very honest about his original meaning. Why does it matter? Not really very much, except I think it is indicative of Trudeau's fairly surface-level thinking: I don't think he would be accused of being a great intellectual heavy weight for feminism. He's better at hashtag-feminism.
Just because its an easy thing to say, doesnt make it wrong + Show Spoiler +(unless the motivation for the problem with it is decidedly different (I sincerely doubt that based on the nature of the comments) )
It was a stupid thing to say, but its a relatively harmless stupid thing. My immediate reaction was.. "ehhh thats a bit much" and I just moved on. That is a normal reaction.
Its not something outrage should exist over. Once the outrage over the issue begins there is no right decision. Walking it back will fail him and so will sticking to his guns.
Trudeau's not a great intellectual anything and he does try to hard at being overly inclusive. But that's certainly a more reasonable direction to errr on.
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On February 13 2018 21:16 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 16:08 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 14:38 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election. Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke. These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment? This is extremely worrisome if true. So trying to associate me with hard right news outlets even though there is no reason to do so? No moderate or anyone even normal that is left or right of center has been okay with the attention our country is getting because of this so-called joke. Do you really want Canada to be associated with someone who brings this kind of international spotlight to the country? This is extremely worrisome if true I didnt try to associate anything I asked a question based on the fact that your ire seemed more in line with them than anyone closer to right or center or you know possessing basic human decency. Whatever insecurity you project on yourself out of that is not my issue.
You didn't even ask me a question you answered your own question then said that anyone who had a problem with the 'joke' was not normal, moderate or even right of center. Even now you're trying to imply that my comment means that I lack human decency and that I must be insecure for calling you out on your attempts to disparage my comment with name-calling and misalignment.
That fact that you have had to resort to these kind of tactics twice now says something about the type of person you are and how little substance your arguments have.
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On February 13 2018 21:39 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 21:16 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 16:08 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 14:38 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election. Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke. These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment? This is extremely worrisome if true. So trying to associate me with hard right news outlets even though there is no reason to do so? No moderate or anyone even normal that is left or right of center has been okay with the attention our country is getting because of this so-called joke. Do you really want Canada to be associated with someone who brings this kind of international spotlight to the country? This is extremely worrisome if true I didnt try to associate anything I asked a question based on the fact that your ire seemed more in line with them than anyone closer to right or center or you know possessing basic human decency. Whatever insecurity you project on yourself out of that is not my issue. You didn't even ask me a question you answered your own question then said that anyone who had a problem with the 'joke' was not normal, moderate or even right of center. Even now you're trying to imply that my comment means that I lack human decency and that I must be insecure for calling you out on your attempts to disparage my comment with name-calling and misalignment. That fact that you have had to resort to these kind of tactics twice now says something about the type of person you are and how little substance your arguments have.
Sure I did.
"These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment?"
Because I have had little evidence of outrage from moderates or liberals or even many conservatives but plenty from the people I outlined above. and your comment seemed to align with theirs than some one elses.
This was a question. You're answer was "stop trying to associate me with such people." I am not. I am asking if you are ok with that.
You can show me examples of sensible people making a big deal out prior to the right wing / moron / hate speech people shitstorm and i will happily concede the issue.
I mean I get playing the victim is a thing but come one.
There are no tactics here, this isnt some sort of trench warfare, its an observation based opinion.
That the killing news is at a similar level if not lower than this gaffe is because certain news outlets chose to make a false equivalence between a potential failing in the justice system and an overly PC comment and a foot in mouth attempt to walk it back.
Offering attention to that outrage seems silly to me.
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On February 13 2018 21:52 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 21:39 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 21:16 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 16:08 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 14:38 Rebs wrote:On February 13 2018 14:13 Sworn wrote:On February 13 2018 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Like, I fully believe that the farmer is full of shit when he says the gun went off accidentally. but neither side are Innocent victims in this case, yet one is getting treated that way. On February 13 2018 09:16 JimmiC wrote:
He's is just trying to do whats best for peoplekind And things like this are counterproductive. An obvious joke taken out of context is used as cheap dismissal of anything Trudeau, and that weakens the impact of times where we can legitimately criticize him as in this Boushie case. There is no way that was an "obvious joke" especially coming from Trudeau who is known for trying to score as many politically correct brownie points as he can get. He is just trying to backpedal because for once people got tired of it. Though the fact that we have to deal with having a Prime Minister where those types of issues come to the forefront instead of issues like the Boushie case is a problem and probably one that should be addressed the next federal election. Who is getting tired of it though? Piers Morning, Rita Panahi, Sebastian Ghorka? Fox and Friends? No moderate or anyone even normal that is right of center had a problem with the joke. These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment? This is extremely worrisome if true. So trying to associate me with hard right news outlets even though there is no reason to do so? No moderate or anyone even normal that is left or right of center has been okay with the attention our country is getting because of this so-called joke. Do you really want Canada to be associated with someone who brings this kind of international spotlight to the country? This is extremely worrisome if true I didnt try to associate anything I asked a question based on the fact that your ire seemed more in line with them than anyone closer to right or center or you know possessing basic human decency. Whatever insecurity you project on yourself out of that is not my issue. You didn't even ask me a question you answered your own question then said that anyone who had a problem with the 'joke' was not normal, moderate or even right of center. Even now you're trying to imply that my comment means that I lack human decency and that I must be insecure for calling you out on your attempts to disparage my comment with name-calling and misalignment. That fact that you have had to resort to these kind of tactics twice now says something about the type of person you are and how little substance your arguments have. Sure I did. "These are the people you want to associate with and take seriously on making a thing out of a comment?" Because I have had little evidence of outrage from moderates or liberals or even many conservatives but plenty from the people I outlined above. and your comment seemed to align with theirs than some one elses. This was a question. You're answer was "stop trying to associate me with such people." I am not. I am asking if you are ok with that. You can show me examples of sensible people making a big deal out prior to the right wing / moron / hate speech people shitstorm and i will happily concede the issue. I mean I get playing the victim is a thing but come one. There are no tactics here, this isnt some sort of trench warfare, its an observation based opinion. That the killing news is at a similar level if not lower than this gaffe is because certain news outlets chose to make a false equivalence between a potential failing in the justice system and an overly PC comment and a foot in mouth attempt to walk it back. Offering attention to that outrage seems silly to me.
I have had little evidence of people agreeing with him making the comment from moderates, liberals or conservatives but I have seen a lot of extreme leftists who try to defend it and your comments seem to align with them it would seem.
There are examples of sensible people in this thread who disagree and think it was a stupid comment to make so I don't even think I need to go further than that unless you think that everyone who disagrees has to be some sort of "right wing / moron / hate speech person".
Offering attention to something that is minor in comparison to other news stories is obviously a problem but not one that I can stop myself and is most certainly not limited to one political faction or another it is rampant throughout the industry regardless of affiliation.
The biggest issue I think most people have with the comment is the fact that as Prime Minister you should know the consequences of making such a comment and the type of media attention it will bring. You can blame news outlets for running with the story but ultimately it is the fault of the man who decided (even if it was a joke) to interrupt someone in the middle of trying to ask a legitimate political question, in what is supposed to be a serious forum, to make such a stupid comment.
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On February 13 2018 22:37 Sworn wrote:
There are examples of sensible people in this thread who disagree and think it was a stupid comment to make so I don't even think I need to go further than that unless you think that everyone who disagrees has to be some sort of "right wing / moron / hate speech person".
You mean like these people ?
On February 13 2018 21:16 Rebs wrote:
It was a stupid thing to say, but its a relatively harmless stupid thing. My immediate reaction was.. "ehhh thats a bit much" and I just moved on. That is a normal reaction..
Not gonna lie its slightly insulting that you deem what I say dismissive enough to not even pay attention.
The issue is not disagreeing with it. I disagree with it too. The issue is thinking its a big deal.
All Public figures are human aswell. Public figures make mistakes, sometimes they have a certain proclivity to repeat or overcompensate toward making those mistakes.
What you dont do is pretend that some sort of commentary gaffe is now the reason that a non issue is a parallel issue to other more serious issues.
I mean if it ends at "ehh that was dumb" and everyone moves on its fine. He already knows it was stupid now. But thats his style. Hes not an intellectual guy and he claims to possess as emotional intelligence that appeals to people (and to a degree he does) so hes going to play those cards always.
I spend more time concerning my interests with the cabinet that has done a pretty decent job overall. Whatever +'s and -'s younger Trudeau has on the PR side are largely irrelevant to me, and as it seems, they are'nt to you, I'd say he has a pretty healthy passing grade on that front anyway,.
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So I haven't been following this Trudeau thing much. Can someone explain all the hubbub to me?
My only exposure is someone linked me to the start of the full question from the town hall, and I watched that. In context, I thought the joke was kind of funny. He was teasing this delusional girl who was going on about how she was thankful for women in cabinet because they're capable of maternal love which is powered by mitochondria and oxycodone, etc.
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On February 14 2018 01:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So I haven't been following this Trudeau thing much. Can someone explain all the hubbub to me?
My only exposure is someone linked me to the start of the full question from the town hall, and I watched that. In context, I thought the joke was kind of funny. He was teasing this delusional girl who was going on about how she was thankful for women in cabinet because they're capable of maternal love which is powered by mitochondria and oxycodone, etc.
A lot of people, including mainstream media, didn't think it was a joke. That's all.
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brb gotta change the story lmao
TORONTO — A key accusation which cost Patrick Brown the leadership of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party – that he plied an underage high school girl with booze – is not true, CTV News now acknowledges.
The stunning revelation concerns a woman who told CTV that when she was a student in a Barrie high school, the then federal Conservative MP took her home from a bar, gave her booze, took her to his room, and crudely asked for oral sex.
“She now says that she was of legal drinking age and out of high school,” the CTV News online article published late Tuesday says.
The item is the fifth paragraph in a news story that begins with the accusers saying they “are not backing down” from the claims that toppled a potential premier-in-waiting.
Key accusation against Patrick Brown false, CTV now admits
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I wonder what the NDP leader is thinking now
From 3 weeks ago
The presumption of innocence is "strictly" a legal construct that shouldn't stop Canadians from believing women who come forward with allegations of assault, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said Thursday.
While some members of his caucus stood behind him with incredulous looks, Singh told reporters there are "different issues" at play when women step forward with accusations.
"If you are asking me when I was a lawyer in a legal lens, there is a discussion or presumption of innocence — but that is strictly about the procedures in court," he said.
"When it comes to creating a just society, we need to look at the reality that we have to believe survivors if we want to tackle violence against women, if we want to shift a culture that for too long women have been silent about the ongoing violence that they experienced in their lives."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/01/25/jagmeet-singh-presumption-of-innocence-is-strictly-for-courts_a_23343799/
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trying to push the "NDP is anti antisemitic" button does nothing for me. talk about the economy guys. i think Doug Ford's inexperience at large scale politics is now hurting him. he is a much better "grassroots"//local guy. This "Rae Days" stuff is also way off. History indicates Rae did a nice job piloting the province through a very tough recession a long long long time ago. Ford needs to stop talking about "Rae Days".
It appears the Kathleen Wynne Reign of Error is finally over...
onto some local news, this is just sad stuff...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-police-seek-two-suspects-after-bomb-explosion-at-mississauga/
fortunately, the 3 critically injured people have been upgraded to stable.
On February 13 2018 21:16 Rebs wrote:
Trudeau's not a great intellectual anything and he does try to hard at being overly inclusive. But that's certainly a more reasonable direction to errr on.
true, whoever i think is the smartest, most capable leader has big impact on my vote and its a big reason why i couldn't vote for Trudeau last election.
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EPT
