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On April 23 2015 01:30 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 21:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I'm from Alberta, and initially I was going 100% conservative once again, and after all that's happened in the last two years, I'm a bit more iffy, but at the end, I still think I'll go with the Harper government.
What I desire, is things in this country to operate efficiently. There is a reason why manufacturing is dead in Ontario, and why Canada isn't able to create anything beneficial to the rest of the world besides natural resources, which we are lucky to have.
I like that I'm rewarded for my own hard work, it's probably a more selfish environment than what it'd be under the liberals or NDP, but that way, the honest hard working people don't have to put up with so much bullshit. I like their view on ISIS as well. I like that they are making it more difficult to immigrate to Canada, so many people have been taking advantage of the loop holes.
As for what I don't like: I dislike how they all seem really christian, I don't know, but very often it feels like they are acting with christian traditions in mind, and as someone who is pro-choice and pro-LGBT, pro-prostitution, pro-bestiality, pro doing whatever people want to long as there are minimal impacts to other people, which a lot of this is... I just want them to stay out of my bedroom and family. That's a party I can't find anywhere - 50% republican 50% conservative economic policy, 30% conservative, 20% green, 50% liberal social policy, with complete religious freedoms, and laws not founded on Islam or Christianity.
Besides that, I think people have more person freedoms with the conservatives, but that means more places for things to go wrong. And for that reason, I don't mind the increased monitoring as much, although I think it's a bit over the top, although that might be because I'm acting in my self interest rather than societies. A higher allocation of funding into public services would make me happy, but I think that's more so due to our provincial government more than Harper. Seems like you are a libertarian, welcome to the club 
I don't even know what I am... People can really oppose laws at first sight, but once you analyze them with enough depth, they can turn out quite well, and vice versa also.
I think that's what makes us switch political parties every few years moreso than the fear of corruption. At first sight, many laws seem good, but once we have time to live with them, we see it's not so great, and we reject other ideas that seem bad at first sight, but are actually good.
Anyway, I have a feeling the conservatives wont win, the polls suggest so anyway, and there's been a lot of vocal opposition recently.
On the other hand, I would be very unhappy if the Liberals won, and it seems like the main reason are voting for them is because the name Trudeau, which is even more absurd to me. And voting NDP is almost like voting communism... They want to tax capital gains at the tax rate, and lots of other pretty absurd stuff.
Really hard for me, no party that I really really like, maybe if the Conservatives were a bit more charismatic or something... Or if NDP understood economics better.
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On April 23 2015 02:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 01:30 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 22 2015 21:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I'm from Alberta, and initially I was going 100% conservative once again, and after all that's happened in the last two years, I'm a bit more iffy, but at the end, I still think I'll go with the Harper government.
What I desire, is things in this country to operate efficiently. There is a reason why manufacturing is dead in Ontario, and why Canada isn't able to create anything beneficial to the rest of the world besides natural resources, which we are lucky to have.
I like that I'm rewarded for my own hard work, it's probably a more selfish environment than what it'd be under the liberals or NDP, but that way, the honest hard working people don't have to put up with so much bullshit. I like their view on ISIS as well. I like that they are making it more difficult to immigrate to Canada, so many people have been taking advantage of the loop holes.
As for what I don't like: I dislike how they all seem really christian, I don't know, but very often it feels like they are acting with christian traditions in mind, and as someone who is pro-choice and pro-LGBT, pro-prostitution, pro-bestiality, pro doing whatever people want to long as there are minimal impacts to other people, which a lot of this is... I just want them to stay out of my bedroom and family. That's a party I can't find anywhere - 50% republican 50% conservative economic policy, 30% conservative, 20% green, 50% liberal social policy, with complete religious freedoms, and laws not founded on Islam or Christianity.
Besides that, I think people have more person freedoms with the conservatives, but that means more places for things to go wrong. And for that reason, I don't mind the increased monitoring as much, although I think it's a bit over the top, although that might be because I'm acting in my self interest rather than societies. A higher allocation of funding into public services would make me happy, but I think that's more so due to our provincial government more than Harper. Seems like you are a libertarian, welcome to the club On the other hand, I would be very unhappy if the Liberals won, and it seems like the main reason are voting for them is because the name Trudeau, which is even more absurd to me. And voting NDP is almost like voting communism... They want to tax capital gains at the tax rate, and lots of other pretty absurd stuff.
source on capital gains?
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On April 23 2015 02:53 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 02:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 23 2015 01:30 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 22 2015 21:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I'm from Alberta, and initially I was going 100% conservative once again, and after all that's happened in the last two years, I'm a bit more iffy, but at the end, I still think I'll go with the Harper government.
What I desire, is things in this country to operate efficiently. There is a reason why manufacturing is dead in Ontario, and why Canada isn't able to create anything beneficial to the rest of the world besides natural resources, which we are lucky to have.
I like that I'm rewarded for my own hard work, it's probably a more selfish environment than what it'd be under the liberals or NDP, but that way, the honest hard working people don't have to put up with so much bullshit. I like their view on ISIS as well. I like that they are making it more difficult to immigrate to Canada, so many people have been taking advantage of the loop holes.
As for what I don't like: I dislike how they all seem really christian, I don't know, but very often it feels like they are acting with christian traditions in mind, and as someone who is pro-choice and pro-LGBT, pro-prostitution, pro-bestiality, pro doing whatever people want to long as there are minimal impacts to other people, which a lot of this is... I just want them to stay out of my bedroom and family. That's a party I can't find anywhere - 50% republican 50% conservative economic policy, 30% conservative, 20% green, 50% liberal social policy, with complete religious freedoms, and laws not founded on Islam or Christianity.
Besides that, I think people have more person freedoms with the conservatives, but that means more places for things to go wrong. And for that reason, I don't mind the increased monitoring as much, although I think it's a bit over the top, although that might be because I'm acting in my self interest rather than societies. A higher allocation of funding into public services would make me happy, but I think that's more so due to our provincial government more than Harper. Seems like you are a libertarian, welcome to the club On the other hand, I would be very unhappy if the Liberals won, and it seems like the main reason are voting for them is because the name Trudeau, which is even more absurd to me. And voting NDP is almost like voting communism... They want to tax capital gains at the tax rate, and lots of other pretty absurd stuff. source on capital gains?
http://xfer.ndp.ca/2013/policybook/2013-04-17-PolicyBook_E.pdf
Page 4, search "capital"... I recommend giving it a full read if you are considering voting NDP. Much better than getting watered down and biased stuff you'll read on the internet. Of course, the thing is written by NDP, but gives you a better idea of everything they want to do, read it with caution.
Like 6 months ago, I went to all the party sites and read their entire policy ideas.
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Canada11287 Posts
@FiWiFaKi
As for what I don't like: I dislike how they all seem really christian, I don't know, but very often it feels like they are acting with christian traditions in mind
Well, I don't know. It seems to me that Harper has specifically shut down the social conservative element in his caucus. There's been all sorts of complaints from social conservatives that they aren't allowed to introduce legislation in to that effect. Lunney becoming independent, etc.
@JimmyJ
I would see Turner as simply a continuation of the general turn away from Trudeau and his policies. Liberal's were a damaged brand and once Mulroney blew up too, there was the huge shift away from mainstream parties because nobody seemed to represent the west, thus we run into strong regionalism in the federal elections. (I'm glad that we're back to federal parties dominating all provinces- I hope NDP or another federal party continues to take Quebec . Would it be better to say in the immediate aftermath of the Trudeau years he was strongly disliked, rather than hated? (Except how he talked back to reporters, my grandpa always liked that.) And now, I suspect people look back more fondly as we are wont to do.
I will agree that the West is not uniform- that Alberta in particular leans far more heavily right than its neighbours.
In general:
Also, what is this Forces et Démocratie they are ex-Bloc members, but are they just a splinter group of the Bloc? Is it just a collaboration of basically two independents or are they trying to become a major party in Quebec?
Oh. Here is one prediction for sure. Elizabeth May will be back representing the Green Party. That particular riding in Victoria is super environmentally conscious and also sent a Green member into the Legislative Assembly.
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So they don't like capital gains and TFSA's. Trudeau said he was going to repeal the TFSA increase.
They're making a great case for me to vote for them
/s
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Man, just rereading that NDP paper, such socialism, wow.
I dunno, I think Australia and Germany are pretty model systems, I think they have a good balance of everything... The low oil price, and thus the struggling economy will turn us to this extreme socialism like it did to Europe in the early 1930s.
Seriously, everyone should read that above PDF, they are weak, would increase costs of bureaucracy 10 fold , would need 3x current taxes to fund what they have planned, kill all innovation and economic strength in Canada. Talk about lack of freedoms with the conservatives now, C51 is nothing.
Want to stop all privatization, add tariffs to everything, no more nuclear energy, much larger carbon tax or carbon market (this I can actually agree with, having done some environmental economics), more money and accommodations to aboriginal people, distortions from competitive equilibrium in every market due to some form of regulation. I can't see any benefits to vote for this party if you are middle to upper middle class at all.
Just complain more:
-"Ensuring that large profitable corporations pay a
fair share of taxes."... The tax system would become extremely progressive, no such thing as being rich
-"Ensuring that the banks provide reasonable access
to credit at fair interest rates."... When does a responsible person require lots of credit, the worst case is some medical emergency, but public health care and disability benefits already deal with this quite well. This just distorts the market, and the people with good credit ratings will suffer as a result
-"Regulating airlines to ensure majority Canadian control of the industry. "... Just moving back, why?
-"Protecting small producers in our natural resource sectors by discouraging the trend toward vertical integration."... What does this achieve exactly? Seems to only add inefficiencies.
-"Establishing “Buy Canadian” procurement policies and fostering Canadian ownership and control of our major sectors."... i.e. Raise prices for consumers just so buy our own stuff, instead of making money by efficiently producing and exporting our products to other economies, and buying cheap from them
-"Increasing the number of RCMP officers."... Has anyone here actually benefited from the RCMP, most people don't even know what they do.
-"Investing in a special fund to assist high-crime communities."... More equalization, that will create costs for wealthier people
-"Stopping the smuggling of illegal firearms andenable all municipalities, provinces, and territories to implement a ban on handguns."... Hand gun ban, do we really have that many issues with shootings?... Seems unnecessary, but I wont start a gun debate.
-"Moving pensioners and long-term disability recipients to the front of the line of creditors when employers enter court protection or declare bankruptcy."... Call me selfish, but why should disabled people get benefits before the hard working people do?
-"Offering employers a one year reduction on Canada Pension Plan and EI contributions for each new employee hired."... Much dislike for this, I've taken courses in labor economics, and can't think of any practical reason for this. Just an unneeded distortion in the market.
-"Making EI benefits more flexible and generous to allow families to take time off to care for dying parents at home."... Higher EI benefits mean higher EI costs. Again, punishes the responsible people, and gives benefit to people who choose to not work. Rather have lower EI, and be unemployed less.
-"Boosting EI benefits in case of illness or injury."... Oh boy. Fake doctors notes here we come. Injury/illness should be irrelevant when it comes to EI benefit.
-"Assisting low-income households to improve household energy efficiency."... I've actually done research on a paper why this is bad. With higher efficiency, they'll use more energy, and the "rebound" effect, will offset all the benefit from the increased energy efficiency.
Man, gross. (I did only pick out the bad, and not the good)... But man, if I see in the polls that they have a shot at winning, I will personally go out to protest their policies.
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On April 23 2015 03:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Man, just rereading that NDP paper, such socialism, wow.
I dunno, I think Australia and Germany are pretty model systems, I think they have a good balance of everything...
Sounds like you were picking countries out of a hat, couldnt have picked two different from each other than these two in the Western world.
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Guy who makes fun of party's platform for incoherence can't coherently reference his ideal models. Oh joy!
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On April 23 2015 03:54 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 03:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Man, just rereading that NDP paper, such socialism, wow.
I dunno, I think Australia and Germany are pretty model systems, I think they have a good balance of everything... Sounds like you were picking countries out of a hat, couldnt have picked two different from each other than these two in the Western world.
From the things I've read, I don't really think that's true, but I'm no expert of course. They are my two bounds on right-wing and centrist ideas, even though I hate using the idea of a vector for a political spectrum.
Although https://www.politicalcompass.org/ suggests that the big parties in both countries are relatively similar.
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On April 23 2015 04:00 farvacola wrote:
Guy who makes fun of party's platform for incoherence can't coherently reference his ideal models. Oh joy!
Yes, it's a bit unfortunate that I chose a more math and science career path. I've always been interested in philosophy and politics, and always enjoy discussions about what is good or bad about certain policies, but I've never had a formal education, thus don't know many of the terms, etc.
Politics just seems like such a mess, very difficult to get objective education in it, as it's all very fragmented... The words "conservative" and "liberal" party don't line up with their historic equivalent party. Democrats and Republicans pretty much flipping ideologies in the past shows how this is commonly the case.
I forget which famous Mathematician/Scientist spent years studying politics and whatnot, and then said how much of a wasted effort it was to try and study politics ( that's why I try to avoid it, even though I find the topic very interesting).
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On April 23 2015 04:04 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 03:54 Sub40APM wrote:On April 23 2015 03:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Man, just rereading that NDP paper, such socialism, wow.
I dunno, I think Australia and Germany are pretty model systems, I think they have a good balance of everything... Sounds like you were picking countries out of a hat, couldnt have picked two different from each other than these two in the Western world. From the things I've read, I don't really think that's true, but I'm no expert of course. They are my two bounds on right-wing and centrist ideas, even though I hate using the idea of a vector for a political spectrum. Although https://www.politicalcompass.org/ suggests that the big parties in both countries are relatively similar.
One country is a resource exporter that wholly depends on China and the real estate market in its major cities -- so like a more racist version of Canada -- and the other country is a machine exporter with a split labor market where roughly half work in a labor force infinitely more union friendly than anything in Canada and the other half work essentially temp jobs forever.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the idea behind taxing capital gains and wages the same is mostly twofold, prevent tax avoidance moves that add no value except to dodge taxes, and achieve some fairness.
this can be accomplished by changing the qualification for when a cap gains income can receive preferential treatment. some sort of longer holding time etc. the need for longer term planning and investment horizon is pretty clear.
it's fine to have some sort of preference for saving and investment in tax policy while also acknowledging the perverse incentives created by this. the u.s. policy has tilted way too far to the other side, not sure about canada.
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On April 23 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:
the idea behind taxing capital gains and wages the same is mostly twofold, prevent tax avoidance moves that add no value except to dodge taxes, and achieve some fairness.
investing provides no value? what?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
tax avoidance moves.
please read better
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Remember guys, if none of the mainstream parties match your demands there is always the Rhinoceros Party.
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The more I read about the Conservatives' budget, the more it seems like a complete farce. Very little in it seems even remotely sustainable. It is based entirely on predictions for economic growth that don't reflect reality, and is partly dependent on money saved from public labour negotiations that won't happen until September. Not to mention the TFSA change is not grounded in reality and even the Conservatives' own previous Finance Minister was against it because of how much money it would cost versus the benefits of it.
This entire budget seems to be based on deceiving those who don't read news beyond the headlines into thinking the Conservatives actually accomplished something when the fine print clearly indicates otherwise and it is clear that this budget is incredibly fragile.
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On April 23 2015 05:01 oneofthem wrote:
tax avoidance moves.
please read better
Don't be stupid. Capital gains and dividends will not be taxed at the same level as income.
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I am a fan of our Federal Conservatives and their budget. Their policies match my views about 85%. I think Canada will be fine whomever wins though.
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On April 23 2015 06:43 Ben... wrote:
The more I read about the Conservatives' budget, the more it seems like a complete farce. Very little in it seems even remotely sustainable. It is based entirely on predictions for economic growth that don't reflect reality, and is partly dependent on money saved from public labour negotiations that won't happen until September. Not to mention the TFSA change is not grounded in reality and even the Conservatives' own previous Finance Minister was against it because of how much money it would cost versus the benefits of it.
This entire budget seems to be based on deceiving those who don't read news beyond the headlines into thinking the Conservatives actually accomplished something when the fine print clearly indicates otherwise and it is clear that this budget is incredibly fragile.
Most Canadians use their TFSA to hold GIC's/cash to fund down payments, reno's or vacations. Those with a bit of investing knowledge and cutback on spending will benefit the most (middle class imo). How much tax is being missed from those with GIC's and high interest savings? Not much.
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On April 23 2015 07:30 Wolfstan wrote:
I am a fan of our Federal Conservatives and their budget. Their policies match my views about 85%. I think Canada will be fine whomever wins though.
We can not put Harper back in. Anyone but him is fine. He has caused alot of economic damage to thsi country and his all in on Alberta Oil failed miserably. Thankfully I fully expect the conservatives (who i sadly voted for last time...) to see a very sharp decline in votes out west. Rural Alberta and Sask may finally have new colors on the seat map this time around.
Like what was pointed out earlier, in Edmonton and Calgary, notorious Conservative strong holds NDP is polling the highest. Harper may not even win his riding in Calgary
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EPT
