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Canada11343 Posts
You do not know what you are talking about. I suspect you are super-imposing your american vision of your own world onto a situation you do not understand.
I don't know why you would say that. He is correct that mathematically all First Past the Post ought to devolve down to a two party race. The only reason it has not in Canada is our regional interests are so strong. The West is perfectly willing to say screw you to both major parties and vote for some upstart party for a couple decades even if it means being out of power for just as long. Quebec will swing wildly between a few different parties but will often default to the Bloc which as the spectre of separatism fades mostly functions to defend Quebec's regional interests. We are more regionally divided than we are ideologically politically divided which is why we have (so far) bucked the inevitable logic of FPTP.
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US.
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On April 30 2025 02:42 Billyboy wrote:
JJR, the NDP have as much power as the bloc, the Liberals can work with either.
The big news is Pierre losing his seat, I would have to think this means a new Conservative leader. The question is whether that leader will lean more like Harper with a strong rebuke to Trump or an even more populist than Pierre leader pulling the party even more right.
i will go into further detail as to exactly why the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc.
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-losing-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that-means/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.html
Members of official parties can also sit on parliamentary committees, where they can then cultivate stakeholder relations, network with members of other parties and acquire knowledge of key policy issues, experts say.
“The incentives to get official party status are legitimacy, financial (allowances) as well as the ability to speak and have privileges recognized in the House of Commons.”
There are 50+ other reasons.. i'm too lazy to list them.
Should the NDP and Liberals attempt to hold down a government they are one measles outbreak away from losing a vote in parliament. A Bloc and Liberal coalition is more tenable for countless reasons.. some outlined in the article i posted. Also, they'd hold ~190 seats. Lots of room for error and lots of room to stand up to any rogue back benchers that don't want to vote with the government.
In conclusion, the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc Quebecois
On April 30 2025 07:42 Falling wrote:
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US.
Trump was not the cause of the fall of the NDP. Jagmeet Singh finished 3rd in his riding. He failed. Jagmeet Singh is the reason he came in 3rd in his own riding and the reason the NDP has 7 seats. Singh failed, end of story. Trump did not cause the people in Singh's riding to sour on him. OTOH, the PQ is kicking ass and taking names the last few months.
which "3rd parties"? The Bloc? The NDP? The former Reform Party of Canada? CAQ? PQ? He did not "break the back" of the BQ. In fact, the BQ and CAQ are doing just fine. I'd say Trump rhetoric only increase PQ's popularity.
The BQ lost 70,000 votes this election. That's nuttin'.
and i'll say this... Blanchet successfully represented his constituents and won on his own merits. pierre poilievre and Jagmeet Singh lost in their own riding due to their own failures... not because of that guy with weird hair. He will try to claim he is influencing everything though. Some people fall into his BS i guess.
The Liberal Party in Quebec has been declining recently and now sits at 11% while the CAQ and PQ are at ~25% and ~35% respectively. If anything at all, Trump's yapping has only made the PQ more popular. Over the decades, the PQ has had massive impacts on Canada at a Federal level. THat has not changed at all since Trump starting yapping away.
The US Prez can not impact on the mechanisms within Canada that made parties like the BQ, NDP , and Reform to come into existence and yield massive amounts of power on both the provincial and federal levels.
There continues to be a metric tonne of political power wielded by parties other than the Conservatives and Liberals in Canada.
perhaps this is that thing called TDR?
One thing I think Trump is contributing towards ... it is a shift to the right by Canadians.
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Your conclusion is wrong, which ever one partners with the Liberals to run the government is going to have more power and that is going to be the NDP. There are not 50 other reasons, you just made that up to sounds important and to not admit your wrong, because in spite of consistently being so you never do. And as I mentioned the more important issues with official party status can be (and have been often) changed with a simple motion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_party_status
Most of the rules governing official party status are not laws, but are internal rules governing the legislatures. Therefore, the members of a legislature may, if they choose, pass a motion to dispense with the rules and grant official status to parties that would otherwise fail to qualify. There are many examples of this practice in multiple areas.
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On April 30 2025 08:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 02:42 Billyboy wrote:
JJR, the NDP have as much power as the bloc, the Liberals can work with either.
The big news is Pierre losing his seat, I would have to think this means a new Conservative leader. The question is whether that leader will lean more like Harper with a strong rebuke to Trump or an even more populist than Pierre leader pulling the party even more right. i will go into further detail as to exactly why the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc. https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-losing-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that-means/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.htmlShow nested quote +Members of official parties can also sit on parliamentary committees, where they can then cultivate stakeholder relations, network with members of other parties and acquire knowledge of key policy issues, experts say. Show nested quote +“The incentives to get official party status are legitimacy, financial (allowances) as well as the ability to speak and have privileges recognized in the House of Commons.” There are 50+ other reasons.. i'm too lazy to list them. Should the NDP and Liberals attempt to hold down a government they are one measles outbreak away from losing a vote in parliament. A Bloc and Liberal coalition is more tenable for countless reasons.. some outlined in the article i posted. Also, they'd hold ~190 seats. Lots of room for error and lots of room to stand up to any rogue back benchers that don't want to vote with the government. In conclusion, the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc Quebecois Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 07:42 Falling wrote:
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US. Trump was not the cause of the fall of the NDP. Jagmeet Singh finished 3rd in his riding. He failed. Jagmeet Singh is the reason he came in 3rd in his own riding and the reason the NDP has 7 seats. Singh failed, end of story. Trump did not cause the people in Singh's riding to sour on him. OTOH, the PQ is kicking ass and taking names the last few months. which "3rd parties"? The Bloc? The NDP? The former Reform Party of Canada? CAQ? PQ? He did not "break the back" of the BQ. In fact, the BQ and CAQ are doing just fine. I'd say Trump rhetoric only increase PQ's popularity. The BQ lost 70,000 votes this election. That's nuttin'. and i'll say this... Blanchet successfully represented his constituents and won on his own merits. pierre poilievre and Jagmeet Singh lost in their own riding due to their own failures... not because of that guy with weird hair. He will try to claim he is influencing everything though. Some people fall into his BS i guess. The Liberal Party in Quebec has been declining recently and now sits at 11% while the CAQ and PQ are at ~25% and ~35% respectively. If anything at all, Trump's yapping has only made the PQ more popular. Over the decades, the PQ has had massive impacts on Canada at a Federal level. THat has not changed at all since Trump starting yapping away. The US Prez can not impact on the mechanisms within Canada that made parties like the BQ, NDP , and Reform to come into existence and yield massive amounts of power on both the provincial and federal levels. There continues to be a metric tonne of political power wielded by parties other than the Conservatives and Liberals in Canada. perhaps this is that thing called TDR? One thing I think Trump is contributing towards ... it is a shift to the right by Canadians.
lololol so dumb
Canada's faced with an existential threat, or at least as much of one as we've seen recently. Some dumbass to the south is threatening to annex territory and challenging Canadian sovereignty. It is wholly and completely unsurprising to see a draw away from the 'minor' parties and see people consolidating votes in the structures most likely to protect us from this threat.
Fewer people casually tossed their vote to the NDP over the libs, or BQ for simply this reason.
Hard to call it 'TDR' when the doofus is tweeting about '51st state' on our election day. Even though said doofus is not smart, he is leading a more powerful country that is also our neigbour. No derangement required to take that threat seriously.
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Northern Ireland24909 Posts
On May 01 2025 02:19 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 08:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 30 2025 02:42 Billyboy wrote:
JJR, the NDP have as much power as the bloc, the Liberals can work with either.
The big news is Pierre losing his seat, I would have to think this means a new Conservative leader. The question is whether that leader will lean more like Harper with a strong rebuke to Trump or an even more populist than Pierre leader pulling the party even more right. i will go into further detail as to exactly why the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc. https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-losing-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that-means/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.htmlMembers of official parties can also sit on parliamentary committees, where they can then cultivate stakeholder relations, network with members of other parties and acquire knowledge of key policy issues, experts say. “The incentives to get official party status are legitimacy, financial (allowances) as well as the ability to speak and have privileges recognized in the House of Commons.” There are 50+ other reasons.. i'm too lazy to list them. Should the NDP and Liberals attempt to hold down a government they are one measles outbreak away from losing a vote in parliament. A Bloc and Liberal coalition is more tenable for countless reasons.. some outlined in the article i posted. Also, they'd hold ~190 seats. Lots of room for error and lots of room to stand up to any rogue back benchers that don't want to vote with the government. In conclusion, the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc Quebecois On April 30 2025 07:42 Falling wrote:
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US. Trump was not the cause of the fall of the NDP. Jagmeet Singh finished 3rd in his riding. He failed. Jagmeet Singh is the reason he came in 3rd in his own riding and the reason the NDP has 7 seats. Singh failed, end of story. Trump did not cause the people in Singh's riding to sour on him. OTOH, the PQ is kicking ass and taking names the last few months. which "3rd parties"? The Bloc? The NDP? The former Reform Party of Canada? CAQ? PQ? He did not "break the back" of the BQ. In fact, the BQ and CAQ are doing just fine. I'd say Trump rhetoric only increase PQ's popularity. The BQ lost 70,000 votes this election. That's nuttin'. and i'll say this... Blanchet successfully represented his constituents and won on his own merits. pierre poilievre and Jagmeet Singh lost in their own riding due to their own failures... not because of that guy with weird hair. He will try to claim he is influencing everything though. Some people fall into his BS i guess. The Liberal Party in Quebec has been declining recently and now sits at 11% while the CAQ and PQ are at ~25% and ~35% respectively. If anything at all, Trump's yapping has only made the PQ more popular. Over the decades, the PQ has had massive impacts on Canada at a Federal level. THat has not changed at all since Trump starting yapping away. The US Prez can not impact on the mechanisms within Canada that made parties like the BQ, NDP , and Reform to come into existence and yield massive amounts of power on both the provincial and federal levels. There continues to be a metric tonne of political power wielded by parties other than the Conservatives and Liberals in Canada. perhaps this is that thing called TDR? One thing I think Trump is contributing towards ... it is a shift to the right by Canadians. lololol so dumb Canada's faced with an existential threat, or at least as much of one as we've seen recently. Some dumbass to the south is threatening to annex territory and challenging Canadian sovereignty. It is wholly and completely unsurprising to see a draw away from the 'minor' parties and see people consolidating votes in the structures most likely to protect us from this threat. Fewer people casually tossed their vote to the NDP over the libs, or BQ for simply this reason. Hard to call it 'TDR' when the doofus is tweeting about '51st state' on our election day. Even though said doofus is not smart, he is leading a more powerful country that is also our neigbour. No derangement required to take that threat seriously.
Jimmy’s seeming incapability to go Occam’s Razor here is really quite something.
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On May 01 2025 02:19 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 08:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 30 2025 02:42 Billyboy wrote:
JJR, the NDP have as much power as the bloc, the Liberals can work with either.
The big news is Pierre losing his seat, I would have to think this means a new Conservative leader. The question is whether that leader will lean more like Harper with a strong rebuke to Trump or an even more populist than Pierre leader pulling the party even more right. i will go into further detail as to exactly why the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc. https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-losing-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that-means/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.htmlMembers of official parties can also sit on parliamentary committees, where they can then cultivate stakeholder relations, network with members of other parties and acquire knowledge of key policy issues, experts say. “The incentives to get official party status are legitimacy, financial (allowances) as well as the ability to speak and have privileges recognized in the House of Commons.” There are 50+ other reasons.. i'm too lazy to list them. Should the NDP and Liberals attempt to hold down a government they are one measles outbreak away from losing a vote in parliament. A Bloc and Liberal coalition is more tenable for countless reasons.. some outlined in the article i posted. Also, they'd hold ~190 seats. Lots of room for error and lots of room to stand up to any rogue back benchers that don't want to vote with the government. In conclusion, the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc Quebecois On April 30 2025 07:42 Falling wrote:
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US. Trump was not the cause of the fall of the NDP. Jagmeet Singh finished 3rd in his riding. He failed. Jagmeet Singh is the reason he came in 3rd in his own riding and the reason the NDP has 7 seats. Singh failed, end of story. Trump did not cause the people in Singh's riding to sour on him. OTOH, the PQ is kicking ass and taking names the last few months. which "3rd parties"? The Bloc? The NDP? The former Reform Party of Canada? CAQ? PQ? He did not "break the back" of the BQ. In fact, the BQ and CAQ are doing just fine. I'd say Trump rhetoric only increase PQ's popularity. The BQ lost 70,000 votes this election. That's nuttin'. and i'll say this... Blanchet successfully represented his constituents and won on his own merits. pierre poilievre and Jagmeet Singh lost in their own riding due to their own failures... not because of that guy with weird hair. He will try to claim he is influencing everything though. Some people fall into his BS i guess. The Liberal Party in Quebec has been declining recently and now sits at 11% while the CAQ and PQ are at ~25% and ~35% respectively. If anything at all, Trump's yapping has only made the PQ more popular. Over the decades, the PQ has had massive impacts on Canada at a Federal level. THat has not changed at all since Trump starting yapping away. The US Prez can not impact on the mechanisms within Canada that made parties like the BQ, NDP , and Reform to come into existence and yield massive amounts of power on both the provincial and federal levels. There continues to be a metric tonne of political power wielded by parties other than the Conservatives and Liberals in Canada. perhaps this is that thing called TDR? One thing I think Trump is contributing towards ... it is a shift to the right by Canadians. lololol so dumb Canada's faced with an existential threat, or at least as much of one as we've seen recently. Some dumbass to the south is threatening to annex territory and challenging Canadian sovereignty. It is wholly and completely unsurprising to see a draw away from the 'minor' parties and see people consolidating votes in the structures most likely to protect us from this threat. Fewer people casually tossed their vote to the NDP over the libs, or BQ for simply this reason. Hard to call it 'TDR' when the doofus is tweeting about '51st state' on our election day. Even though said doofus is not smart, he is leading a more powerful country that is also our neigbour. No derangement required to take that threat seriously.
Existential threat? I will use your quote back at you... Your comment is "Lolol so dumb".
1995 was a real threat and there was a 94% turnout. 2025 only had 68% voter turn out.
So this election..
BQ lost 70,000 votes. That is a tiny change. PQ popularity is rising sharply. Both have a laser focused agenda. None of that is on Trump because Bloc and PQ supporters are unconcerned with an existential threat to Canada. They've wanted to break up Canada for decades.
The BQ and PQ have a laser focused narrow agenda. The NDP is all over the map. Singh starts off backing gay and trans rights hard core by having 40 LBGT candidates .... Then goes silent. Singh was all over the place on other issues. Under Broadbent and Layton the NDP were far more focused.
The changes in popularity of these '3rd parties' as they were loosely defined by some other poster... Are not much related to Trump.
Just a lot of prisoner of the moment views on your part ... No long term perspective....
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On May 02 2025 04:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2025 04:10 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 03:59 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 03:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 01:21 Zambrah wrote:
They've already spent three election cycles worth of time being in adequate, so honestly Im not sure how they address the issues Canada has (like the exorbitant cost of housing) without some serious soul searching and very aggressive use of any single iota of power they have.
lol, Canada is fucked. fortunately, due to the USMCA its not hard to move an hour south. Here comes the Parti Quebecois! when times get tough Quebec nationalism rises. So, here is how Trump takes down Canada. 1) Canada's economy implodes as the USA's economy goes into a recession due to the world wide tariff war 2) Quebec separates as nationalism rises in the bad economy 3) Trump picks Canada to pieces 1 province at a time starting with Alberta. The Bloc agreed to play ball with the Liberals for 1 year. Carney is on the clock. if Carney doesn't let Quebec control their own immigration ... the Bloc will take his government down. melting down the US/world economy for 1 province at a time is truly 5D chess. masterful gambit really. /s its not 5D Chess though. Trump is floundering around ... he'll be able to gather up a couple of leaves falling from the Maple trees he is shaking. The US economy contracted this last quarter. Canada's economy is going down with it. Quebec Nationalism is coming in hard. Quebecers can correctly blame the evil english speaking man Donald Trump. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/30/economy-gdp-q1-trump-tariffsGross domestic product (GDP), a key measure of the US economy, contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of the year, down from growth of 2.4% in the last quarter of 2024. The contraction – the first since the start of 2022 – puts the US on the brink of a technical recession, defined by two quarters of negative growth. sure. so you sell to someone else if Trump is kinda bad to your businesses and in turn workers? others are seeking new alliances openly and have contingencies/are working on contingencies. it might take a bit of time but doing nothing also costs money as per your post. Quebec will separate. Alberta will try to get a better deal from the USA than it gets from Canada. The Parti Quebecois grand fromage ... looks like a tiger staring down a deer. He wants to make history. and, that'll be the end of Canada. I need more time to mull this over though. The death of Canada has not been this close since 1995.
Huh seems like you think it might be an existential threat after all.
@Wombat hard agree. It's a conspiracy theorist telling a story of UFOs when the plane's already landed right in front of them, entirely terrestrial.
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Hey guys, according to a resident expert in the USA thread the October 30th, 1995 referendum wasn't really going to break up Canada.
Bill Clinton just likes to randomly visit foreign parliaments and make 2 hours speeches for no reason while getting 10 minute standing ovations from foreign MPs. YOu know... standard stuff.
On May 02 2025 00:41 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2025 02:19 Fleetfeet wrote:On April 30 2025 08:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 30 2025 02:42 Billyboy wrote:
JJR, the NDP have as much power as the bloc, the Liberals can work with either.
The big news is Pierre losing his seat, I would have to think this means a new Conservative leader. The question is whether that leader will lean more like Harper with a strong rebuke to Trump or an even more populist than Pierre leader pulling the party even more right. i will go into further detail as to exactly why the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc. https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-losing-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that-means/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.htmlMembers of official parties can also sit on parliamentary committees, where they can then cultivate stakeholder relations, network with members of other parties and acquire knowledge of key policy issues, experts say. “The incentives to get official party status are legitimacy, financial (allowances) as well as the ability to speak and have privileges recognized in the House of Commons.” There are 50+ other reasons.. i'm too lazy to list them. Should the NDP and Liberals attempt to hold down a government they are one measles outbreak away from losing a vote in parliament. A Bloc and Liberal coalition is more tenable for countless reasons.. some outlined in the article i posted. Also, they'd hold ~190 seats. Lots of room for error and lots of room to stand up to any rogue back benchers that don't want to vote with the government. In conclusion, the NDP do not have as much power as the Bloc Quebecois On April 30 2025 07:42 Falling wrote:
I'm hoping this is a temporary thing and that Trump hasn't permanently broken the back of our third parties. I would hate to see us become as polarized as the Left vs Right in the US. Trump was not the cause of the fall of the NDP. Jagmeet Singh finished 3rd in his riding. He failed. Jagmeet Singh is the reason he came in 3rd in his own riding and the reason the NDP has 7 seats. Singh failed, end of story. Trump did not cause the people in Singh's riding to sour on him. OTOH, the PQ is kicking ass and taking names the last few months. which "3rd parties"? The Bloc? The NDP? The former Reform Party of Canada? CAQ? PQ? He did not "break the back" of the BQ. In fact, the BQ and CAQ are doing just fine. I'd say Trump rhetoric only increase PQ's popularity. The BQ lost 70,000 votes this election. That's nuttin'. and i'll say this... Blanchet successfully represented his constituents and won on his own merits. pierre poilievre and Jagmeet Singh lost in their own riding due to their own failures... not because of that guy with weird hair. He will try to claim he is influencing everything though. Some people fall into his BS i guess. The Liberal Party in Quebec has been declining recently and now sits at 11% while the CAQ and PQ are at ~25% and ~35% respectively. If anything at all, Trump's yapping has only made the PQ more popular. Over the decades, the PQ has had massive impacts on Canada at a Federal level. THat has not changed at all since Trump starting yapping away. The US Prez can not impact on the mechanisms within Canada that made parties like the BQ, NDP , and Reform to come into existence and yield massive amounts of power on both the provincial and federal levels. There continues to be a metric tonne of political power wielded by parties other than the Conservatives and Liberals in Canada. perhaps this is that thing called TDR? One thing I think Trump is contributing towards ... it is a shift to the right by Canadians. lololol so dumb Canada's faced with an existential threat, or at least as much of one as we've seen recently. Some dumbass to the south is threatening to annex territory and challenging Canadian sovereignty. It is wholly and completely unsurprising to see a draw away from the 'minor' parties and see people consolidating votes in the structures most likely to protect us from this threat. Fewer people casually tossed their vote to the NDP over the libs, or BQ for simply this reason. Hard to call it 'TDR' when the doofus is tweeting about '51st state' on our election day. Even though said doofus is not smart, he is leading a more powerful country that is also our neigbour. No derangement required to take that threat seriously. Jimmy’s seeming incapability to go Occam’s Razor here is really quite something.
On May 02 2025 14:01 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2025 04:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:10 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 03:59 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 03:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 01:21 Zambrah wrote:
They've already spent three election cycles worth of time being in adequate, so honestly Im not sure how they address the issues Canada has (like the exorbitant cost of housing) without some serious soul searching and very aggressive use of any single iota of power they have.
lol, Canada is fucked. fortunately, due to the USMCA its not hard to move an hour south. Here comes the Parti Quebecois! when times get tough Quebec nationalism rises. So, here is how Trump takes down Canada. 1) Canada's economy implodes as the USA's economy goes into a recession due to the world wide tariff war 2) Quebec separates as nationalism rises in the bad economy 3) Trump picks Canada to pieces 1 province at a time starting with Alberta. The Bloc agreed to play ball with the Liberals for 1 year. Carney is on the clock. if Carney doesn't let Quebec control their own immigration ... the Bloc will take his government down. melting down the US/world economy for 1 province at a time is truly 5D chess. masterful gambit really. /s its not 5D Chess though. Trump is floundering around ... he'll be able to gather up a couple of leaves falling from the Maple trees he is shaking. The US economy contracted this last quarter. Canada's economy is going down with it. Quebec Nationalism is coming in hard. Quebecers can correctly blame the evil english speaking man Donald Trump. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/30/economy-gdp-q1-trump-tariffsGross domestic product (GDP), a key measure of the US economy, contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of the year, down from growth of 2.4% in the last quarter of 2024. The contraction – the first since the start of 2022 – puts the US on the brink of a technical recession, defined by two quarters of negative growth. sure. so you sell to someone else if Trump is kinda bad to your businesses and in turn workers? others are seeking new alliances openly and have contingencies/are working on contingencies. it might take a bit of time but doing nothing also costs money as per your post. Quebec will separate. Alberta will try to get a better deal from the USA than it gets from Canada. The Parti Quebecois grand fromage ... looks like a tiger staring down a deer. He wants to make history. and, that'll be the end of Canada. I need more time to mull this over though. The death of Canada has not been this close since 1995. Huh seems like you think it might be an existential threat after all. @Wombat hard agree. It's a conspiracy theorist telling a story of UFOs when the plane's already landed right in front of them, entirely terrestrial.
only 68% of Canadians voted in the election. so Canadians don't really view it as a threat.
1995 was an existential threat which is why 94% of Quebecers voted, Clinton did a long speech in Canadian parliament about it and then commented in detail on the referendum days before.
People using google an ocean away, 30 years later, have a hard time grasping what an existential threat to Canada really is.
2025 is another chapter in Canada's borderline viability as a nation. Trump says it and the American media goes haywire. Lucien Bouchard says it.. Preston Manning says it.. and no one cares.
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Just read your own sources, then come back with an informed opinion. Its not difficult.
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On May 03 2025 08:02 Billyboy wrote:
Just read your own sources, then come back with an informed opinion. Its not difficult.
meh, i lived it. you did not. you might convince googlers an ocean away 30 years later something else happened on October 30th 1995 ... i guess.
Parizeau just thought hey... i'll randomly flip out for nothing.
Clinton thought hey... why not make a random speech in front of Canadian parliament for no reason.
https://www.c-span.org/clip/white-house-event/user-clip-bill-clintons-remarks-on-1995-quebec-referendum/4500094
this is some great trolling though dude. it brings back some great memories.
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I did live it. And got informed on it at the time, then double checked. Yes lots of people voted, yes it was an important part of Canadian history. It was a big deal. It is hard to believe you only believe the meme's of uninformed people when you even linked a source that goes into detail and is sourced itself.
Saying you don't need to read your own source is also just a super embarrassing statement and against the rules of the pol threads, not that you follow them or that they are enforced.
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On May 03 2025 08:07 Billyboy wrote:
I did live it. And got informed on it at the time, then double checked. Yes lots of people voted, yes it was an important part of Canadian history. It was a big deal. It is hard to believe you only believe the meme's of uninformed people when you even linked a source that goes into detail and is sourced itself.
Saying you don't need to read your own source is also just a super embarrassing statement and against the rules of the pol threads, not that you follow them or that they are enforced.
and the result of the referendum would be negotiate and leave.
and it is more than " lots of people voted". it had more participation than any election in Canadian history by a wide margin.
Thus, Quebecers viewed that day as an threat to the further existence of Canada. Whereas, only 68% voted in this election.
On May 03 2025 08:07 Billyboy wrote:
I did live it. And got informed on it at the time, then double checked.
You lived it? you were in Montreal that night? You were in Quebec? or were you watching on TV?
or you read stuff people wrote about it 20 years later?
Or, were you 1000s of kilometers away living in a culture distinctly different from Quebec?
again man, this is some great trolling.
and this precise interpretations by courts years after October 30, 1995 do not matter. it is the behaviour of Quebecers at issue here. 94% >> 68%. How many times in the history of democracy do you get 94% participation? Not often. That is what you call an extremely critical event in the life of any nation.
So again, October 30th 1995 represented a real tangible threat to Canada. This Trump stuff... results in a lot of media circuses with real on the street level Canadians behaving like these current events are "kinda important" as demonstrated by their 68% participation in the 2025 federal election.
The tension on October 30th , 1995 was wild.
You're a hockey fan? So take the tension from the OT games of the 1996 World Cup of Hockey. Remember that? Multiply that by 100. That is what it was like.
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On May 03 2025 08:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 08:07 Billyboy wrote:
I did live it. And got informed on it at the time, then double checked. Yes lots of people voted, yes it was an important part of Canadian history. It was a big deal. It is hard to believe you only believe the meme's of uninformed people when you even linked a source that goes into detail and is sourced itself.
Saying you don't need to read your own source is also just a super embarrassing statement and against the rules of the pol threads, not that you follow them or that they are enforced. and the result of the referendum would be negotiate and leave. and it is more than " lots of people voted". it had more participation than any election in Canadian history by a wide margin. Thus, Quebecers viewed that day as an threat to the further existence of Canada. Whereas, only 68% voted in this election. Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 08:07 Billyboy wrote:
I did live it. And got informed on it at the time, then double checked.
You lived it? you were in Montreal that night? You were in Quebec? or were you watching on TV? or you read stuff people wrote about it 20 years later? Or, were you 1000s of kilometers away living in a culture distinctly different from Quebec? again man, this is some great trolling. and this precise interpretations by courts years after October 30, 1995 do not matter. it is the behaviour of Quebecers at issue here. 94% >> 68%. How many times in the history of democracy do you get 94% participation? Not often. That is what you call an extremely critical event in the life of any nation. So again, October 30th 1995 represented a real tangible threat to Canada. This Trump stuff... results in a lot of media circuses with real on the street level Canadians behaving like these current events are "kinda important" as demonstrated by their 68% participation in the 2025 federal election. The tension on October 30th , 1995 was wild. You're a hockey fan? So take the tension from the OT games of the 1996 World Cup of Hockey. Remember that? Multiply that by 100. That is what it was like.
I was alive and learning it about school everyday. Where did you read that I said it wasn't a big deal? I was a massive deal, the first hurdle is a big one! The negations alone would have created chaos. Just read your OWN SOURCE and then you will understand my point.
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple of facts and make up the rest to fit your predetermined conclusion. Hell you could just read the quotes I pulled from your source and you would be most of the way there.
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted.
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and speaking of Quebec...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/cellphones-to-be-banned-from-quebec-schools/
Great move by the province. There is a reason why Quebec students consistently leads Canadians in math... They doing it right dawg...
On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ...
adverb dude.
any how,
this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously.
On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted.
again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters.
The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American media talking heads cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb.
if you're swept up in this current day 2025 media silliness you're a prisoner of the moment. and i gotta say... the US Media is very effective in making people a prisoner of the moment.
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On May 03 2025 09:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ... adverb dude. any how, this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously. Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted. again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters. The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb.
You're whole argument comes down to your feelings trump facts. Then woah just jokes brah here is some other dumb shit I made up.
Go ahead and try to find somewhere where I said "the 2025 election was more important" or anyone said that. You won't because it is more shit you made up.
I'm not going to play your stupid games. But sadly since you keep posting dumb shit in other threads you have to be corrected because people who see the Canada beside your name do not mistakenly think you actually know something.
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On May 03 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 09:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ... adverb dude. any how, this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously. On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted. again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters. The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb. You're whole argument comes down to your feelings trump facts. Then woah just jokes brah here is some other dumb shit I made up. Go ahead and try to find somewhere where I said "the 2025 election was more important" or anyone said that. You won't because it is more shit you made up. I'm not going to play your stupid games. But sadly since you keep posting dumb shit in other threads you have to be corrected because people who see the Canada beside your name do not mistakenly think you actually know something.
my argument comes down to the participation levels in the 2025 election and the 1995 referendum. it was not close dude.
and the "feelings" i've dicussed surrounding 1995 are consistent with an historic level of voter participation.
and really, with ChatGPT around , people can just check out the long term bad relationship between Parizeau and Bouchard on their own. Then they became friends in mid 1995? why? welp, Quebec was on the cusp of nationhood.
So , I'd say my argument involves dozens of facts that i've presented here. Plus my own fond memories of October 1995. The Capstone is the historic participation levels of the voters in 1995.
your views lack historical perspective. the purpose of today's news is not to inform you. the purpose of today's news is to get you/one to watch more news. and they're doing a great job.
thanks for the trip down memory lane dude.. as much as i love canadian history.. i love french history even more.
In your defense, the American Media does a very effective job making people believe it is always "2 minutes to midnight" on the Doomsday clock.
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On May 03 2025 09:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:On May 03 2025 09:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ... adverb dude. any how, this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously. On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted. again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters. The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb. You're whole argument comes down to your feelings trump facts. Then woah just jokes brah here is some other dumb shit I made up. Go ahead and try to find somewhere where I said "the 2025 election was more important" or anyone said that. You won't because it is more shit you made up. I'm not going to play your stupid games. But sadly since you keep posting dumb shit in other threads you have to be corrected because people who see the Canada beside your name do not mistakenly think you actually know something. my argument comes down to the participation levels in the 2025 election and the 1995 referendum. it was not close dude. and the "feelings" i've dicussed surrounding 1995 are consistent with an historic level of voter participation. and really, with ChatGPT around , people can just check out the long term bad relationship between Parizeau and Bouchard on their own. Then they became friends in mid 1995? why? welp, Quebec was on the cusp of nationhood. So , I'd say my argument involves dozens of facts that i've presented here. Plus my own fond memories of October 1995. The Capstone is the historic participation levels of the voters in 1995.
Then your argument now is completely different than the one you had to start with. The points you have brought up are mostly not true. And it is impossible to talk to someone who lives in a fact free with, changes their point at will, and somehow has 100% confidence in what he makes up. Listed below is your actual original argument I was replying too.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2025 22:59 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2025 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:19 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:10 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 03:59 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 03:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 01:21 Zambrah wrote:
They've already spent three election cycles worth of time being in adequate, so honestly Im not sure how they address the issues Canada has (like the exorbitant cost of housing) without some serious soul searching and very aggressive use of any single iota of power they have.
lol, Canada is fucked. fortunately, due to the USMCA its not hard to move an hour south. Here comes the Parti Quebecois! when times get tough Quebec nationalism rises. So, here is how Trump takes down Canada. 1) Canada's economy implodes as the USA's economy goes into a recession due to the world wide tariff war 2) Quebec separates as nationalism rises in the bad economy 3) Trump picks Canada to pieces 1 province at a time starting with Alberta. The Bloc agreed to play ball with the Liberals for 1 year. Carney is on the clock. if Carney doesn't let Quebec control their own immigration ... the Bloc will take his government down. melting down the US/world economy for 1 province at a time is truly 5D chess. masterful gambit really. /s its not 5D Chess though. Trump is floundering around ... he'll be able to gather up a couple of leaves falling from the Maple trees he is shaking. The US economy contracted this last quarter. Canada's economy is going down with it. Quebec Nationalism is coming in hard. Quebecers can correctly blame the evil english speaking man Donald Trump. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/30/economy-gdp-q1-trump-tariffsGross domestic product (GDP), a key measure of the US economy, contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of the year, down from growth of 2.4% in the last quarter of 2024. The contraction – the first since the start of 2022 – puts the US on the brink of a technical recession, defined by two quarters of negative growth. sure. so you sell to someone else if Trump is kinda bad to your businesses and in turn workers? others are seeking new alliances openly and have contingencies/are working on contingencies. it might take a bit of time but doing nothing also costs money as per your post. Quebec will separate. Alberta will try to get a better deal from the USA than it gets from Canada. that is a lot of assumptions... I cannot speak to it frankly as I got no idea of the dynamics here. in 1995, with the economy tanking and a right wing PM Quebec came within 50,000 votes of separating from Canada. 94% of quebecers voted in this referendum. how often do 94% vote on anything in the history of ever? we've got the economy tanking and a PM claiming he'll increase military spending, already cut the carbon tax, cutting more taxes, a set plan to execute tough on crime changes, totally ignoring environmental concerns. So we've got another right wing PM who runs around in a red tie and calls himself a liberal. the table is set. This is again factually inaccurate. Quebec was 50,000 votes from entering into good faith negotiations about separating. They almost got past step one. Here in Alberta the indigenous leaders have already said don't bother with step one because our treaty rights are with Canada and were not signing off. Likely something similar or one of the other 8 roadblocks would have stopped it in Quebec as well. You really got to stop getting your information from a combination of meme's and your own assumptions. It leads to say so many things as fact that are factually wrong.
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you probably missed this so i'll repost.
In your defense, the American Media does a very effective job making people believe it is always "2 minutes to midnight" on the Doomsday clock.
On May 03 2025 09:26 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 09:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:On May 03 2025 09:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ... adverb dude. any how, this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously. On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted. again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters. The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb. You're whole argument comes down to your feelings trump facts. Then woah just jokes brah here is some other dumb shit I made up. Go ahead and try to find somewhere where I said "the 2025 election was more important" or anyone said that. You won't because it is more shit you made up. I'm not going to play your stupid games. But sadly since you keep posting dumb shit in other threads you have to be corrected because people who see the Canada beside your name do not mistakenly think you actually know something. my argument comes down to the participation levels in the 2025 election and the 1995 referendum. it was not close dude. and the "feelings" i've dicussed surrounding 1995 are consistent with an historic level of voter participation. and really, with ChatGPT around , people can just check out the long term bad relationship between Parizeau and Bouchard on their own. Then they became friends in mid 1995? why? welp, Quebec was on the cusp of nationhood. So , I'd say my argument involves dozens of facts that i've presented here. Plus my own fond memories of October 1995. The Capstone is the historic participation levels of the voters in 1995. Then your argument now is completely different than the one you had to start with. The points you have brought up are mostly not true. And it is impossible to talk to someone who lives in a fact free with, changes their point at will, and somehow has 100% confidence in what he makes up. Listed below is your actual original argument I was replying too. + Show Spoiler +On May 02 2025 22:59 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2025 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:19 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:10 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 03:59 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 03:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 01:21 Zambrah wrote:
They've already spent three election cycles worth of time being in adequate, so honestly Im not sure how they address the issues Canada has (like the exorbitant cost of housing) without some serious soul searching and very aggressive use of any single iota of power they have.
lol, Canada is fucked. fortunately, due to the USMCA its not hard to move an hour south. Here comes the Parti Quebecois! when times get tough Quebec nationalism rises. So, here is how Trump takes down Canada. 1) Canada's economy implodes as the USA's economy goes into a recession due to the world wide tariff war 2) Quebec separates as nationalism rises in the bad economy 3) Trump picks Canada to pieces 1 province at a time starting with Alberta. The Bloc agreed to play ball with the Liberals for 1 year. Carney is on the clock. if Carney doesn't let Quebec control their own immigration ... the Bloc will take his government down. melting down the US/world economy for 1 province at a time is truly 5D chess. masterful gambit really. /s its not 5D Chess though. Trump is floundering around ... he'll be able to gather up a couple of leaves falling from the Maple trees he is shaking. The US economy contracted this last quarter. Canada's economy is going down with it. Quebec Nationalism is coming in hard. Quebecers can correctly blame the evil english speaking man Donald Trump. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/30/economy-gdp-q1-trump-tariffsGross domestic product (GDP), a key measure of the US economy, contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of the year, down from growth of 2.4% in the last quarter of 2024. The contraction – the first since the start of 2022 – puts the US on the brink of a technical recession, defined by two quarters of negative growth. sure. so you sell to someone else if Trump is kinda bad to your businesses and in turn workers? others are seeking new alliances openly and have contingencies/are working on contingencies. it might take a bit of time but doing nothing also costs money as per your post. Quebec will separate. Alberta will try to get a better deal from the USA than it gets from Canada. that is a lot of assumptions... I cannot speak to it frankly as I got no idea of the dynamics here. in 1995, with the economy tanking and a right wing PM Quebec came within 50,000 votes of separating from Canada. 94% of quebecers voted in this referendum. how often do 94% vote on anything in the history of ever? we've got the economy tanking and a PM claiming he'll increase military spending, already cut the carbon tax, cutting more taxes, a set plan to execute tough on crime changes, totally ignoring environmental concerns. So we've got another right wing PM who runs around in a red tie and calls himself a liberal. the table is set. This is again factually inaccurate. Quebec was 50,000 votes from entering into good faith negotiations about separating. They almost got past step one. Here in Alberta the indigenous leaders have already said don't bother with step one because our treaty rights are with Canada and were not signing off. Likely something similar or one of the other 8 roadblocks would have stopped it in Quebec as well. You really got to stop getting your information from a combination of meme's and your own assumptions. It leads to say so many things as fact that are factually wrong.
great, let's stick with this: in the eyes of real actual voters... the 1995 referendum was a greater threat to the future of canada than anything trump has done as evidenced by the participation level in the 2025 federal election.
Also, have you noticed JD Roberts is on Fox and calls himself "John Roberts" LOLOL. and, I love that Iron Maiden song.
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On May 03 2025 09:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote:you probably missed this so i'll repost. In your defense, the American Media does a very effective job making people believe it is always "2 minutes to midnight" on the Doomsday clock.Show nested quote +On May 03 2025 09:26 Billyboy wrote:On May 03 2025 09:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:On May 03 2025 09:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
Basically no one takes you serious because you come to a conclusion based on a couple ... adverb dude. any how, this is not a serious politics web site. it is an extremely serious web site when it comes to SC2 PvP maps. if you think this is a serious discussion about Canadian politics you're probably taking yourself too seriously. On May 03 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote:
My take on you is you think your laying some sort of sick burn with your follow up posts but they just make you look dumber and dumber because everyone else who is participating probably did the bare minimum and read at least the parts from YOUR SOURCE that I quoted. again, none of this matters. October 30 1995 was a turning point in the future of Canada far more so than the 2025 election by virtue of the behaviour of the voters. The 2025 Trump media circus surrounding Canada can be analogous to the Trudeau black-brown face "controversy". The American mainstream media went haywire.. Canadians said "meh". American cared. Canadians hardly cared at all. Trudeau did go down a % point or 2. Watching US media ... I thought Trudeau hit Iran with a nuclear bomb. You're whole argument comes down to your feelings trump facts. Then woah just jokes brah here is some other dumb shit I made up. Go ahead and try to find somewhere where I said "the 2025 election was more important" or anyone said that. You won't because it is more shit you made up. I'm not going to play your stupid games. But sadly since you keep posting dumb shit in other threads you have to be corrected because people who see the Canada beside your name do not mistakenly think you actually know something. my argument comes down to the participation levels in the 2025 election and the 1995 referendum. it was not close dude. and the "feelings" i've dicussed surrounding 1995 are consistent with an historic level of voter participation. and really, with ChatGPT around , people can just check out the long term bad relationship between Parizeau and Bouchard on their own. Then they became friends in mid 1995? why? welp, Quebec was on the cusp of nationhood. So , I'd say my argument involves dozens of facts that i've presented here. Plus my own fond memories of October 1995. The Capstone is the historic participation levels of the voters in 1995. Then your argument now is completely different than the one you had to start with. The points you have brought up are mostly not true. And it is impossible to talk to someone who lives in a fact free with, changes their point at will, and somehow has 100% confidence in what he makes up. Listed below is your actual original argument I was replying too. + Show Spoiler +On May 02 2025 22:59 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2025 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:19 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 04:10 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 04:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 03:59 Doublemint wrote:On May 02 2025 03:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 02 2025 01:21 Zambrah wrote:
They've already spent three election cycles worth of time being in adequate, so honestly Im not sure how they address the issues Canada has (like the exorbitant cost of housing) without some serious soul searching and very aggressive use of any single iota of power they have.
lol, Canada is fucked. fortunately, due to the USMCA its not hard to move an hour south. Here comes the Parti Quebecois! when times get tough Quebec nationalism rises. So, here is how Trump takes down Canada. 1) Canada's economy implodes as the USA's economy goes into a recession due to the world wide tariff war 2) Quebec separates as nationalism rises in the bad economy 3) Trump picks Canada to pieces 1 province at a time starting with Alberta. The Bloc agreed to play ball with the Liberals for 1 year. Carney is on the clock. if Carney doesn't let Quebec control their own immigration ... the Bloc will take his government down. melting down the US/world economy for 1 province at a time is truly 5D chess. masterful gambit really. /s its not 5D Chess though. Trump is floundering around ... he'll be able to gather up a couple of leaves falling from the Maple trees he is shaking. The US economy contracted this last quarter. Canada's economy is going down with it. Quebec Nationalism is coming in hard. Quebecers can correctly blame the evil english speaking man Donald Trump. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/30/economy-gdp-q1-trump-tariffsGross domestic product (GDP), a key measure of the US economy, contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of the year, down from growth of 2.4% in the last quarter of 2024. The contraction – the first since the start of 2022 – puts the US on the brink of a technical recession, defined by two quarters of negative growth. sure. so you sell to someone else if Trump is kinda bad to your businesses and in turn workers? others are seeking new alliances openly and have contingencies/are working on contingencies. it might take a bit of time but doing nothing also costs money as per your post. Quebec will separate. Alberta will try to get a better deal from the USA than it gets from Canada. that is a lot of assumptions... I cannot speak to it frankly as I got no idea of the dynamics here. in 1995, with the economy tanking and a right wing PM Quebec came within 50,000 votes of separating from Canada. 94% of quebecers voted in this referendum. how often do 94% vote on anything in the history of ever? we've got the economy tanking and a PM claiming he'll increase military spending, already cut the carbon tax, cutting more taxes, a set plan to execute tough on crime changes, totally ignoring environmental concerns. So we've got another right wing PM who runs around in a red tie and calls himself a liberal. the table is set. This is again factually inaccurate. Quebec was 50,000 votes from entering into good faith negotiations about separating. They almost got past step one. Here in Alberta the indigenous leaders have already said don't bother with step one because our treaty rights are with Canada and were not signing off. Likely something similar or one of the other 8 roadblocks would have stopped it in Quebec as well. You really got to stop getting your information from a combination of meme's and your own assumptions. It leads to say so many things as fact that are factually wrong. great, let's stick with this: in the eyes of real actual voters... the 1995 referendum was a greater threat to the future of canada than anything trump has done as evidenced by the participation level in the 2025 federal election. Also, have you noticed JD Roberts is on Fox and calls himself "John Roberts" LOLOL. and, I love that Iron Maiden song.
I didn't miss anything, I was just correcting the incorrect statement you made and continued to argue was correct. And I don't think it is a fluke that it is from the same incorrect statements that are memes on maga social media.
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In 1995, Chretien refused to say what a "YES" vote meant. That kinda says it all.. without saying it.
There were no legal guidelines for how a province could separate from Canada at that time. Chrétien likely believed that:
A "YES" vote wouldn’t automatically lead to independence.
The federal government would still have the power to negotiate terms, or even refuse negotiations outright.
Chretien has a conveniently bad memory. 
In 1995 from BC to Ontario the economies ranged from modest growth to booming. You'd think that would increase the strength of the Canadian dollar. Nah, the fear of Quebec separation held the dollar down. Fear of Quebec separation motivated Bill Clinton to visit and talk about Canadian unity for 2 hours in Canadian parliament. Then the week of the referendum Clinton again commented. Presidents never talk about Quebec. In 1995, Clinton couldn't shut up about it. Meanwhile, Chretien stays super vague about what a "YES" vote meant. That's a shitstorm dude.
Anyhow, here is a great look at why Jagmeet Singh failed hard and why blaming Trump is a bad idea for NDP supporters.
https://nationalnewswatch.com/2025/05/03/ndp-has-lost-touch-with-its-core-supporters-says-a-former-mp
Relating this to 2025.
so ya, Trump's 2025 moves were such an existential threat to Ontario and Canada that in the Ontario provincial election 45% voted. Yawn. Trump is already pivoting off of his stance by exempting USMCA Canadian auto parts. Trump had that big dust up with Ford over cutting off electricity and weeks later he/USA is exempting auto parts from Ontario, the cornerstone of Canada's auto parts industry. LOL.
I think Carney and Trump are gonna miraculously come to some amazing agreements on Tuesday. Guaranteed that the negotiating is happening as I type this.
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EPT
