European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 943

On September 17 2017 09:37 LegalLord wrote:
Macron won because his opponent was Le Pen - but there are many folk who are eager to paint it as a deep, worthy victory for the status quo.

On September 20 2017 19:42 Acrofales wrote:


There's a massive problem in that the politicians in charge are giant idiot assholes. On the one hand, we have Rajoy, who has systematically refused to even consider measures that might assuage Catalan people unhappy about their situation in the union... and he has systematically refused for the last 6 years, so why change now? Especially as he is from the conservative PP, a party that is rather unpopular in Catalunya, so it's not as if he really cares about that community.

And on the other hand, we have Puigdemont, a bungling incompetent corrupt asshole, and he is the head of a coaltion with the CUP, who believe that Catalunya should be an independent socialist utopia (and in general, their policy ideas are contradictory and nonsensical). But their principal power base are Catalan independentists, and the more radical, the more likely to vote again for these idiot parties.

So that's the setting in which gave rise to this farcical joke of a referendum. It's worth noting that "Junts pel Sí" won the election on a promise that they would declare Catalan independence, and the general discontent has been growing since the start of the crisis in 2008, so this is not some fringe movement, but actually does represent a significant part of the Catalan population (by now... independentists were a fringe movement when I first moved here), mainly due to complete mismanagement by the national government.

Anyway, even Puigdemont had the brains to realize unilaterally declaring independence wasn't going to work, so he is trying to save face by claiming the previous referendum was illegitimate and non-representative (both true), so what we need is a proper referendum. Ignoring the fact that this next referendum will have all of the exact same problems as the previous one:

1. The Spanish Constitution doesn't allow for this type of referendum, and it is thus illegal.
   
2. There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned.
   
3. It's completely unclear (still! and the referendum is in 2 weeks) who can even vote, because the generalitat doesn't actually have a census. Presumably I would be allowed to vote, as I am a legal resident of Catalunya. However, I am not a Spanish national, and cannot usually vote: but that information is only available at national institutions, who are not cooperating with the whole thing. Not to mention, nobody even knows who is supposed to man the voting booths, and there are definitely no impartial monitors as every organization that would normally do this is not touching the Catalan referendum with a 10-foot pole.
   
4. It's not even clear what anybody is voting for. In this sense, it's very similar to the Brexit vote: remain is very clear in that it simply prolongs the status quo. Leave means... what? And in many ways it's even worse, because unlike Brexit which at least has a legal framework for leaving the EU, there is no such framework for Catalunya. Does voting for leave mean you are in favour of an armed rebellion if that's what it takes? How far does "leave" go?
   

But obviously this referendum *does* have quite a bit of political support, and the threatening stance of the national government is just throwing gasoline on the fire. Especially as the dismissal of the Catalans' (often valid) complaints is exactly what sparked the whole movement in the first place. And while he cannot possibly do much to assuage the historical and cultural aspects of the movement, those are insignificant to most of the population: the main anger is about the economic and political inequality. I'll just copypaste from Quora, which has a reasonable summary:


So I hope it's clear why the Catalans are upset, and why this is a political trainwreck waiting to happen. Now sit back and watch the wreckage. It's what most Catalans that I know are doing anyway

On September 22 2017 01:09 Velr wrote:
In other news, switzerland is having votes again this sunday and the big one is:
Pensionsystem overhaul
Womens retirement age up to 65 from 64 (same as men).
Second pillar (occupational) rent down to 6 from 6.8% of your capital.
+70.00 Francs for everyone in the first Pillar.
+0.6% vat increase to finance it better.

Polls are close and even finding a compromise in the parlament before letting the people vote took several years.

Hard Right and Left politicians are against it, all others support it with mostly mild enthusiasm. The one thing everyone agrees on is just that an overhaul is necessary. The system is still healthy atm but won't be in 20 years if nothing is done.

On September 22 2017 04:24 Sent. wrote:
Different retirment ages for men and women aren't unique to Switzerland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age#Retirement_age_by_country

Am I the only one who wonders if sc-darkness is Shield's alt account?

On September 22 2017 04:24 Sent. wrote:
Different retirment ages for men and women aren't unique to Switzerland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age#Retirement_age_by_country

Am I the only one who wonders if sc-darkness is Shield's alt account?

On September 24 2017 01:02 Nebuchad wrote:
Curious what you're voting tomorrow Velr (nevermind I should have read your posts it's pretty clear)

Ended up with double yes after much consideration, still not sure I like my choice. Every argument I've seen for either side was terrible, this typically doesn't happen to me =)

On September 24 2017 03:28 Acrofales wrote:

Wait, aren't you the world's biggest Bernie bro? How can you be in favour of raising the retirement age for anybody?

The Spanish authorities have moved to place all policing in Catalonia under central control to stop the disputed independence referendum on 1 October.

Col Diego Pérez de los Cobos has been put in charge of Catalan and central police forces in the autonomous region.

Madrid said the order was aimed at achieving better co-ordination. But the Catalan authorities rejected it, saying it was an unacceptable interference.

Thousands of extra police are being sent to the region to block the vote.

...

Joaquim Forn, Catalonia's interior chief, said the local government did not "accept this interference" in the regional police, known officially as the Mossos d'Esquadra.

"The Catalan government does not accept this intervention of the state because it does not take into account all the legal framework that we have in order to take care of the security in Catalonia," he said.

"The leader of the Catalan police will not hand over his functions," he said.

On September 25 2017 01:07 HolydaKing wrote:
ARD got CDU and SPD even weaker and AFD at 13.5 as well as FPD at 10.5 atm. Yes quite the defeat, but I'm not happy about the AFD number.