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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
the 17th question actually is in there to distinguish AfD from even further right parties. The
17: Culture of Remembrance The genocide of european Jews should continue to be a central part of German culture of remembrance. I've read an article about that the other day and basicly they ran into the problem of having the AfD not be distinguishable from NPD / Die Rechte. IIRC the AfD answered the above question with something along the line of "it should still be part of german culture of remembrance but we should also teach our kids more about other parts of our history. The fall of the wall etc" (not a direct quote but it was something like that). Whereas the NPD and Die Rechte more or less said they wish to stop that because no other countries do that, with hints at the brits and french history among others and instead focus on the "glorious" parts of our history. German word they used was "ruhmreich", idk if there's a better translation for that than glorious
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Lol my results are so strange:
DIE RECHTE 64,5% CDU/CSU 56,6% SPD 55,3% GRUNE 50% AfD 50% PIRATEN 47,4% FDP 43,4% DIE LINKE 40,8%
How can Die Rechte be the first when AfD is similar and just ties with Greens? Also SPD more than AfD?!
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NPD 63,2 % GRÜNE 52,6 % DIE LINKE 51,3 % FDP 51,3 % PIRATEN 50 % SPD 50 % CDU/CSU 48,7 % AfD 47,4 %
Hmm.
I will also say that a lot of these questions I had to answer neutral because I didn't really have an opinion one way or the other.
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On September 18 2017 08:01 Toadesstern wrote:the 17th question actually is in there to distinguish AfD from even further right parties. The Show nested quote +17: Culture of Remembrance The genocide of european Jews should continue to be a central part of German culture of remembrance. I've read an article about that the other day and basicly they ran into the problem of having the AfD not be distinguishable from NPD / Die Rechte. IIRC the AfD answered the above question with something along the line of "it should still be part of german culture of remembrance but we should also teach our kids more about other parts of our history. The fall of the wall etc" (not a direct quote but it was something like that). Whereas the NPD and Die Rechte more or less said they wish to stop that because no other countries do that, with hints at the brits and french history among others and instead focus on the "glorious" parts of our history. German word they used was "ruhmreich", idk if there's a better translation for that than glorious  If there is one thing about Germany that is special, it's how the country deals with its past. It's important to underscore that I wrote deals and not dealt because we have not finished learning lessons from our past. It still has to be evoked time and again to put the ideology and thoughts of movements and parties into perspective.
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There is an Austrian version of wahl-o-mat too (for German speakers):
https://wahlkabine.at
Since the order of the questions is randomized I can't give you a useful translation.
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lol "Papamonat"
that's the cutest name you guys could have come up with, isn't it? Leave it to the austrians
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There is a second name for it to cater to the needs of our biggest economic refugee group: Väterfrühkarenz
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getting the greens on first place in Austria. And also the commies are scoring higher with me than the SPÖ lol. Is that normal?
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On September 19 2017 02:22 Nyxisto wrote: getting the greens on first place in Austria. And also the commies are scoring higher with me than the SPÖ lol. Is that normal?
Our satire magazine wrote an article titled: "Even Strache has KPÖ on top in Wahlkabine" (the freedom party leader). So yeah, commies scoring high seems to be a normal match if you have a reasonable political position. 
For SPÖ and ÖVP - they are more left-rigjt than their german counterparts SPD and CDU if you want to read anything into that. I love how ÖVP regularily scores by far lowest with me.
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Austrian nationalist party would be quite a fitting translation, right?
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On September 19 2017 04:30 Artisreal wrote: Austrian nationalist party would be quite a fitting translation, right? Usually it is "people's party" and it is a rename. The original party from after the monarchy was the christ-social party (like the bavarian CSU). After they turned fascist in 1933 and after the second world war they needed a new name.
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Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something?
Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue.
Source
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On September 20 2017 18:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something? Show nested quote +Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue. Source
There's a massive problem in that the politicians in charge are giant idiot assholes. On the one hand, we have Rajoy, who has systematically refused to even consider measures that might assuage Catalan people unhappy about their situation in the union... and he has systematically refused for the last 6 years, so why change now? Especially as he is from the conservative PP, a party that is rather unpopular in Catalunya, so it's not as if he really cares about that community.
And on the other hand, we have Puigdemont, a bungling incompetent corrupt asshole, and he is the head of a coaltion with the CUP, who believe that Catalunya should be an independent socialist utopia (and in general, their policy ideas are contradictory and nonsensical). But their principal power base are Catalan independentists, and the more radical, the more likely to vote again for these idiot parties.
So that's the setting in which gave rise to this farcical joke of a referendum. It's worth noting that "Junts pel Sí" won the election on a promise that they would declare Catalan independence, and the general discontent has been growing since the start of the crisis in 2008, so this is not some fringe movement, but actually does represent a significant part of the Catalan population (by now... independentists were a fringe movement when I first moved here), mainly due to complete mismanagement by the national government.
Anyway, even Puigdemont had the brains to realize unilaterally declaring independence wasn't going to work, so he is trying to save face by claiming the previous referendum was illegitimate and non-representative (both true), so what we need is a proper referendum. Ignoring the fact that this next referendum will have all of the exact same problems as the previous one:
- The Spanish Constitution doesn't allow for this type of referendum, and it is thus illegal.
- There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned.
- It's completely unclear (still! and the referendum is in 2 weeks) who can even vote, because the generalitat doesn't actually have a census. Presumably I would be allowed to vote, as I am a legal resident of Catalunya. However, I am not a Spanish national, and cannot usually vote: but that information is only available at national institutions, who are not cooperating with the whole thing. Not to mention, nobody even knows who is supposed to man the voting booths, and there are definitely no impartial monitors as every organization that would normally do this is not touching the Catalan referendum with a 10-foot pole.
- It's not even clear what anybody is voting for. In this sense, it's very similar to the Brexit vote: remain is very clear in that it simply prolongs the status quo. Leave means... what? And in many ways it's even worse, because unlike Brexit which at least has a legal framework for leaving the EU, there is no such framework for Catalunya. Does voting for leave mean you are in favour of an armed rebellion if that's what it takes? How far does "leave" go?
But obviously this referendum *does* have quite a bit of political support, and the threatening stance of the national government is just throwing gasoline on the fire. Especially as the dismissal of the Catalans' (often valid) complaints is exactly what sparked the whole movement in the first place. And while he cannot possibly do much to assuage the historical and cultural aspects of the movement, those are insignificant to most of the population: the main anger is about the economic and political inequality. I'll just copypaste from Quora, which has a reasonable summary:
Catalonia suffers a tax deficit with respect to the Spanish state of around 8% of its GDP which in 2010 amounted to €16,000,000,000 of Catalan taxes that were paid to Madrid and not reinvested in Catalonia. This makes Catalonia the most highly taxed region in Europe and its schools, health services, roads and infrastructures are suffering in comparison to supposedly poorer regions of Spain.
Furthermore, many decisions taken by central government have negative effects on the local economy. Here are two examples.
Barcelona Airport despite being Spain's busiest airport some months of the year still has no metro connection, a very poor train service and out of date roads whilst Madrid Barajas has train, metro, new roads and there are plans for a high-speed AVE connection. AENA, the central airport authority, also prioritises intercontinental flights to Madrid meaning there are no direct flights from many destinations to Barcelona, which has a detrimental effect on multinational business in Catalonia.
The Port of Barcelona is one of the busiest in Europe and is so profitable it subsidises other Spanish ports that run at a loss. The Port of Barcelona would be even more successful if it had a freight railway line that could take goods north into Europe because ships from Asia that currently dock in Rotterdam could access the Mediterranean via the Suez Canal. Both Catalonia and the EU have been lobbying for the so-called Mediterranean Corridor, which would also benefit Valencia, Cartagena, Malaga and Algeciras, but central government has blocked the Mediterranean Corridor for years because it doesn't pass through Madrid.
So I hope it's clear why the Catalans are upset, and why this is a political trainwreck waiting to happen. Now sit back and watch the wreckage. It's what most Catalans that I know are doing anyway
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On September 20 2017 19:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 18:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something? Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue. Source [*] There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned. I'm becoming more and more convinced that it should be mandatory to have 'fuck off with this stupid referendum' as an option on any referendum ballot to give the people that think it's a dumb idea a way to use their voice instead of just abstaining.
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On September 20 2017 20:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 19:42 Acrofales wrote:On September 20 2017 18:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something? Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue. Source [*] There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned. I'm becoming more and more convinced that it should be mandatory to have 'fuck off with this stupid referendum' as an option on any referendum ballot to give the people that think it's a dumb idea a way to use their voice instead of just abstaining. Or... you go and vote No?
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On September 20 2017 20:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 20:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:42 Acrofales wrote:On September 20 2017 18:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something? Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue. Source [*] There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned. I'm becoming more and more convinced that it should be mandatory to have 'fuck off with this stupid referendum' as an option on any referendum ballot to give the people that think it's a dumb idea a way to use their voice instead of just abstaining. Or... you go and vote No? Well then your vote would be interpreted as being anti-independance while you might just disagree with a illegal referendum and creating tension with Madrid while still wanting independence in a different way.
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bit late to the wahl-o-mat party.
pirates 82.4% die PARTEI 77.8% grün 74.1% linke 74.1% fdp 57.4% spd 50.9% cdu/csu 42.6% afd 34.3%
note that die PARTEI is basically a party run by satirists and comedians. them having a huge oveflap with me tells me i should either be worried about my political views or the views of ths other parties. otherwise not hugely surprised. overall i think we will probably end up with merkel and a spd+cdu/csu coalition again. personally just hope the afd wont get too much of a growth. from predictions ive seen afd be between 8 and 12% which is fairly worrying.
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Spain’s prime minister has called on Catalan separatist leaders to end their “escalation” as several thousand people took to the streets of Barcelona to protest at Madrid’s attempts to stop a banned referendum on independence.
“Stop this escalation of radicalism and disobedience once and for all,” Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement on Wednesday night as protesters remained in the centre of the city after a day-long demonstration.
Catalonia’s president earlier accused the Spanish government of suspending the region’s autonomy after police intensified efforts to stop a vote on independence that has sparked one of the worst political crises since Spain’s return to democracy four decades ago.
Spanish Guardia Civil officers raided a dozen Catalan regional government offices and arrested 14 senior officials on Wednesday as part of an operation to stop the referendum from taking place on 1 October.
Carles Puigdemont, the head of Catalonia’s pro-sovereignty government, described the raids as a “a co-ordinated police assault” that showed that Madrid “has de facto suspended self-government and applied a de facto state of emergency” in Catalonia.
He also appeared to draw a parallel between the raids and the repression and abuses of the Franco dictatorship, tweeting: “We will not accept a return to the darkest times. The government is in favour of liberty and democracy.”
Speaking after an emergency ministerial meeting, Puigdemont vowed the poll would go ahead.
“We reaffirm our peaceful response,” he said. “The Spanish government has crossed a red line and become a democratic disgrace.”
The mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, called the raids “a democratic scandal” and said Catalans would defend their institutions.
Tensions between Madrid and Barcelona have escalated rapidly over recent days as the government of the Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, attempts to make good its promise to stop the vote.
On Wednesday morning, Spain’s interior ministry announced it was cancelling leave for all the Guardia Civil and national police officers tasked with preventing the referendum. In a statement, it said the affected officers would have to be available between 20 September and 5 October, but added the period could be extended if necessary.
in his TV address, Rajoy called on Catalonia’s regional leaders to cancel the referendum on the grounds that it goes against Spain’s laws. “Don’t go ahead. Go back to the law and democracy. This referendum is a chimera,” he said.
The raids come a day after the Guardia Civil confiscated referendum documents from the offices of a private delivery firm in the Catalan city of Terrassa. More than 1.5m referendum leaflets and posters have also been seized.
The Catalan high court said that police acting on a judge’s orders had searched 42 premises on Wednesday – including six regional government offices – adding that 20 people were being investigated for alleged disobedience, abuse of power and embezzlement related to the referendum.
The regional government confirmed that Josep Maria Jové, secretary general of economic affairs and an aide to the Catalan vice-president, and Lluis Salvado, the secretary of taxation, were among those arrested.
The Spanish interior ministry said that police had confiscated nearly 10m ballot papers. Polling station signs and documents for electoral officers were also seized during a raid on a warehouse in a small town outside Barcelona.
As news of the arrests emerged, a crowd began to gather outside the finance ministry, one of the targets of the raids. By mid morning the crowd had swelled to more than 2,000 people blocking Gran Via, one of Barcelona’s principal thoroughfares.
By late afternoon, under the clatter of surveillance helicopters and with a heavy police presence, the angry but peaceful rally had grown to some 5,000, with hundreds more people joining as they finished work or got out of school.
The crowd, breaking into the Catalan national anthem and waving placards reading “We are voting to be free,” began by chanting “No tinc por” (I’m not afraid) – the slogan used in response to last month’s terrorist attacks in the city.
But the chant was soon replaced by a new cry: “Occupation forces out!”
Smaller demonstrations were being held in other parts of the city, blocking major roads and causing traffic chaos. The mood was tense and very different from the party atmosphere at the million-strong pro-independence rally a little over a week ago.
Catalonia is mainly policed by the local Mossos d’Esquadra. The paramilitary Guardia Civil, strongly associated in some people’s minds with the fascist dictatorship, is rarely seen in the region.
Source
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