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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On September 25 2017 01:48 Big J wrote:
Every politician talking about the AfD being the biggest problem. Prepare for 20-25% after the next (regular) election. You can't get strategically more retarded than a centralist politician.
Edit: Oh, I take that back for the SPD. Martin Schulz seems to have understood something, being extremely open about the CDU being the main opponent. Let's just hope they really take the opposition role and try to become a better alternative to the CDU.
To be honest I don't see that happening. I think 10% is a goal fair enough for a ostensibly one policy party - "Against".
Even though the name suggests differently, they're a fucked up bunch of hypocrites who feed on false outrage about the establishment.
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On September 25 2017 02:24 Nyxisto wrote:The base was sick of it and it would have been suicide. This is a good decision. Not happy that we got wrecked again but at least only as much as was expected. The CDU took a large hit. Greens doing fairly well. The worst thing is the East German vote. 21% for the Afd among East Germans making them the second strongest party by far. What a pile of crap.
We? Are you a SPD member? Or just a symphatizer?
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On September 25 2017 02:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 02:24 Nyxisto wrote:The base was sick of it and it would have been suicide. This is a good decision. Not happy that we got wrecked again but at least only as much as was expected. The CDU took a large hit. Greens doing fairly well. The worst thing is the East German vote. 21% for the Afd among East Germans making them the second strongest party by far. What a pile of crap. We? Are you a SPD member? Or just a symphatizer?
member. And as a staunch left-winger you should probably be less gleeful about struggling social democracy and a rise of the far-right.
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On September 25 2017 02:56 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 02:54 TheDwf wrote:On September 25 2017 02:24 Nyxisto wrote:The base was sick of it and it would have been suicide. This is a good decision. Not happy that we got wrecked again but at least only as much as was expected. The CDU took a large hit. Greens doing fairly well. The worst thing is the East German vote. 21% for the Afd among East Germans making them the second strongest party by far. What a pile of crap. We? Are you a SPD member? Or just a symphatizer? member. And as a staunch left-winger you should probably be less gleeful about struggling social democracy and a rise of the far-right.
Aaaah, OK
Well, maybe your party wouldn't be in that state had you listened more to people like me, so...
And I never rejoiced about the rise of the far-right
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The far right is a necessary evil. If no one else stands up against a dangerous consensus then at the very least as a protest party they have a very valuable purpose for existing.
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Sooo, what are FDP's and Greens' stances on:
- Russia,
- EU reform (assuming they want it),
- team Orban?
If they happen to form a coalition with CDU, should we expect any significant changes in these areas?
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On September 25 2017 03:05 LegalLord wrote:
The far right is a necessary evil. If no one else stands up against a dangerous consensus then at the very least as a protest party they have a very valuable purpose for existing.
If emboldening right wing nationalist were as harmless as a shakeup to the political landscape I'd immediately march next to you on this one. Where would we be without the greens shaking things up in the 80s and early 90s?!
But it has real life implications for many non generic people so I take a pass on your interpretation of necessary evil. A little more backbone on the established parties' side e.g on addressing the accompanying challenges of the recent wars in the middle East and less focus on the AfD would have been a tremendous help on keeping down the "we'll show em"part of the electorate.
Possibly.
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Germany3128 Posts
in my opinion there are two reasons why the AFD is so strong in this election but I want to focus on the 2nd point
1st: obviously the disconnect between voters and the big mainstream parties CDU and SPD
2nd: the Media has to take a big chunk of the responsibility. Not in the sense of: they were surpressing the views of the AFD but that they were in fact playing directly in their hands. The AFD is an one issue party. Immigration is what allowed them to grow and is still their main topic. So what did the mainstream media do? They would only ever ask them or report about Immigration - their main topic. Every AFD politician can ramble on about Immigration for hours and despite how shocking some of those views are, the AFD voters already know those and will still vote for them, despite how hard you try to make those views look as despisable as possible.
What the media should have done is to focus on some of the other stuff the AFD wants:
-retirement age at 72
-less support for single parents
-getting homeless people for unpaid state jobs
-the same income tax for everyone, no matter if you are a cashier or a top manager at a bank
-"Homosexuality is inconstitutional"
and suddenly, considering that 60% of the AFD votes were protest votes, you would have a lot less votes for them
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I can understand vote for AfD. 1 million refugees was too many in too short time. Merkel never apologised and she's stubborn about it. If it was so good, why is the EU now funding countries outside the EU to take care of refugees? Why is the EU not getting more refugees if it's such a good idea?
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On September 25 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
I can understand vote for AfD. 1 million refugees was too many in too short time. Merkel never apologised and she's stubborn about it. If it was so good, why is the EU now funding countries outside the EU to take care of refugees? Why is the EU not getting more refugees if it's such a good idea?
And what solution does the AfD offer?!
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Ideally, the beheading of the current parties and the replacement of them with a more sane alternative. Germany is going to be a tough nut to crack though, they are quite aggressively status quo.
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On September 25 2017 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Ideally, the beheading of the current parties and the replacement of them with a more sane alternative.
No, I mean regarding the people who arrived in Germany in 2015. What do they want to do? Expel them? Forbid islam??
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On September 25 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
I can understand vote for AfD. 1 million refugees was too many in too short time. Merkel never apologised and she's stubborn about it. If it was so good, why is the EU now funding countries outside the EU to take care of refugees? Why is the EU not getting more refugees if it's such a good idea?
I think you're missing every point you appear to be addressing.
Firstly our law, though much more our history as Germany, incentivises us to take in and shelter people fleeing war.
The EU is funding an advanced border because we're not able or willing to address mistakes from the (recent as well as more distant) past and take on the cause rather than the symptoms
One million refugees is one in five hundred and fifty. Shocking, truly.
And the EU will continue to be supposed saviour of countless forsaken lives from outside the continent of wars continue and climate change is not at least managed.
E: apologies for leaving out the quote
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On September 25 2017 03:50 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
I can understand vote for AfD. 1 million refugees was too many in too short time. Merkel never apologised and she's stubborn about it. If it was so good, why is the EU now funding countries outside the EU to take care of refugees? Why is the EU not getting more refugees if it's such a good idea? And what solution does the AfD offer?!
I don't know. I'd not vote for AfD. They don't match up my beliefs but they're a protest party in a similar way UKIP is in the UK. Brexit happened, then UKIP died. I imagine if AfD's policies go through (e.g. something about immigration), then AfD will die too. As I said, I don't support AfD but I support reduction of political correctness a little bit at least
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On September 25 2017 03:55 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Ideally, the beheading of the current parties and the replacement of them with a more sane alternative. No, I mean regarding the people who arrived in Germany in 2015. What do they want to do? Expel them? Forbid islam??
Expel them would be a decent solution, yes. Not without damage of course but stupid decisions in the past require painful responses in the present.
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Please LL. Keep the trolling in the us thread where you actually have a clue what you're talking about.
You can't expel people into war zones.
At least not official ones
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Putting them back in Turkey would be fine as well. You need to stop misrepresenting my posts and grudgemaking at every opportunity.
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On September 25 2017 03:59 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 03:55 TheDwf wrote:On September 25 2017 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Ideally, the beheading of the current parties and the replacement of them with a more sane alternative. No, I mean regarding the people who arrived in Germany in 2015. What do they want to do? Expel them? Forbid islam?? Expel them would be a decent solution, yes. Not without damage of course but stupid decisions in the past require painful responses in the present.
Germany shouldn't have invited 1 million refugees in such a short time, yes. Once they're invited, they can't expel them without being called nazi, and that's so easy considering their history. Even if it's not Germany, once they're in, it's difficult to deport them without massive outcry. Either don't let them in or if you let them in, stick with that.
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On September 25 2017 03:59 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 03:55 TheDwf wrote:On September 25 2017 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Ideally, the beheading of the current parties and the replacement of them with a more sane alternative. No, I mean regarding the people who arrived in Germany in 2015. What do they want to do? Expel them? Forbid islam?? Expel them would be a decent solution, yes. Not without damage of course but stupid decisions in the past require painful responses in the present.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't you live outside of the country where you were born?
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EPT
