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I don't think that the argument of "well, if we resolve the issue of these 2 enclaves it won't resolve the issue of immigrants trying to illegally enter" really holds water, we had this type of boat illegal immigration for ever, it's perfectly normal to see coast guards of various nations intercepting these boats, catching them while they are trying to make a landing and turning them back, those are "good" images that show the people who have been propagandized that "no one is doing anything" and "governments are importing these people to replace you" that the system is there and borders are maintained in a pretty standard way.
It's very much different then having 2 enclaves with 6 meter tall walls surrounded by territory of a state they don't belong to getting swarmed by tens of thousands of people, many of them dying, most of them young men, those are powerful images that stoke the above fears, they give images to bullshit "invasion" narrative that is not going away.
That is the problem, to me, not that there is illegal immigration, there always will be as long as we have borders and nation states, how just that is, well, that's a completely different discussion that we can have but it again has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
This part that I don't get is why is no one willing to acknowledge how much worse these kind of incidents are then anything similar happening with immigrants trying to enter any other way.
Maybe giving these enclaves to Morocco is a stupid idea, I can concede that, I just refuse to concede that the current situation is fine and we can dismiss it because there are other ways of immigrants coming in.
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On August 14 2026 19:39 Jankisa wrote:
I don't think that the argument of "well, if we resolve the issue of these 2 enclaves it won't resolve the issue of immigrants trying to illegally enter" really holds water, we had this type of boat illegal immigration for ever, it's perfectly normal to see coast guards of various nations intercepting these boats, catching them while they are trying to make a landing and turning them back, those are "good" images that show the people who have been propagandized that "no one is doing anything" and "governments are importing these people to replace you" that the system is there and borders are maintained in a pretty standard way.
It's very much different then having 2 enclaves with 6 meter tall walls surrounded by territory of a state they don't belong to getting swarmed by tens of thousands of people, many of them dying, most of them young men, those are powerful images that stoke the above fears, they give images to bullshit "invasion" narrative that is not going away.
That is the problem, to me, not that there is illegal immigration, there always will be as long as we have borders and nation states, how just that is, well, that's a completely different discussion that we can have but it again has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
This part that I don't get is why is no one willing to acknowledge how much worse these kind of incidents are then anything similar happening with immigrants trying to enter any other way.
Maybe giving these enclaves to Morocco is a stupid idea, I can concede that, I just refuse to concede that the current situation is fine and we can dismiss it because there are other ways of immigrants coming in.
The thing is that immigrants are NOT coming in through Ceuta and Melilla. They are coming into Ceuta, in some misguided belief that making it to Ceuta means they can access mainland Spain easily. And almost all leave again voluntarily when they are told that they can apply for a visa, but are otherwise stuck in Ceuta, with no lodging, no work and no hope of doing anything they couldn't also do from their home. Those with legitimate asylum requests get processed in the same way they would be at the Spanish embassy. The only really "problematic" immigrants are unaccompanied minors. They can't just be sent back over the border, they need their guardians to be contacted, etc. and that takes longer. And that takes time, so they need to be cared for in the meantime. Even so, they will eventually all be returned unless there's reasons they could immigrate legally. So as far as migration goes, this is a non-issue.
That said, this clearly isn't a non-issue. It is pounced upon by right-wing pundits worldwide with terrible footage of "the masses invading Europe". But that's exactly the kind of thing you claim you don't want to give in to. It's right-wing populists riling up their base with basically fake news. That said, the left's response has clearly been subpar as well to this media offensive. But it's a communication problem of Sanchez's government dropping the ball; partially because he's trying to appease Morocco while they're emboldened and happy to embarrass him while Trump also has it out for Spain: there are larger diplomatic games here than anything to do with Ceuta.
The other thing that isn't a non-issue is the humanitarian tragedy that is caused by the desperate people trying to swim kilometers in the sea to reach the exclave. That said, the humanitarian crisis caused by mass migration is considerably worse in other parts of the Mediterranean. Depopulating Ceuta isn't going to solve desperate people killing themselves in an attempt to reach Europe. The solution lies in improving conditions in Africa, not in anything to do with Ceuta.
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Thank you for that reply, I feel like we are finally talking about the same thing.
I am aware of how it works over there, it's not like I'm falling for the propaganda, just acknowledging it's existence and horrible influence.
I try to look at things from a pragmatic view point, looking at what is more or less likely, unfortunately, due to the climate crisis getting worse and worse, I feel like the pathway of improving things in Africa to the point where desperate people aren't willing to take a risk to get to Europe is not very likely.
The biggest difference between deaths at the gates of Ceuta like in this incident and ones in migrants dying due to boat related stuff while crossing is that in the first case you assign blame and gain these disgusting political points against Spain and EU, while in the latter it's the smugglers, the sea etc.
I'm not trying to minimize the tragedy that happens each year on these boat routes, you are completely right, 20 x the deaths of this incident every year, and it's getting worse, so a solution to that is just as, if not more important then the one to these enclaves.
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On August 05 2026 00:43 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2026 02:47 oBlade wrote:On August 02 2026 06:44 Godwrath wrote:On August 02 2026 06:29 Sent. wrote:It's a non issue for simple folk and somehow a massive problem for the 22 EU leaders who signed the letter. Even if you want to disregard the Italian initiative they still had Danish officials working with them and 20 other governments supporting them. They know why it's a big deal and I'm only curious why exactly it is a big deal. Goverment was going for an extraordinary legalization of 500k undocumented illegals. Requisites being having no criminal record, not pending a deportation order, etc etc. Also It IS only for inmigrants Who came before 2026 and met the requisites. Obviously noone who entered Ceuta was going to be elegible for this, but scoring easy points at home is too juicy for politicians. What happened in Ceuta seems to have happened over facebook where suppossedly "Spain lifted the Frontier". This happens from time to time, specially if Morocco can use It as a bargaining chip of some sort. Sánchez was on Algeria (Morocco's rival) to negotiate natural gas imports, so there is that. I also don't know what people expect security forces to do when 50k people overrun the place completely, shoot them ? They are not Hamas members trying to decapitate people. You don't really know who they are at first so you want to stop them before they overrun anything to begin with, you'd expect border security to have nonlethal/less lethal options and crowd control options. Fire hoses, tear gas, smoke, beanbags, rubber bullets, etc. To say they're not Hamas members this time misses that again if you don't know who they are, the fact that someone can let this happen, is a vulnerability which is also step 1 to how pogroms happen. You are just pissed off because Spain handled it well and you would have prefered them machine gunning the brown people. Minimum deaths, no risk of entry to the mainland, no entry in to Schengen, 46k deported in 48h hours and all of them in another 48h. The thing is that border control is a two nation job. 60k people don't just show up at the border at the same time. The border section in Ceuta is one of the most fortified in the world when it comes to non militarised borders. But you don't stop 60k people coming at once with non lethal weapons. You say they didn't know who were coming. But they did for two reasons: 1) they had eyes. 2) Marroco wouldn't have let 60k armed militants gather at their internal border because that would have been a declaration of war. All the same Israel had a militarised border and couldn't stop a much smaller incursion. All in all this a provocation from Marroco and not a border problem. Spain refused to take the bait and adequately solved the problem. And the rest of Europe now has egg on their face. Especially Italy that are the worst offenders when it comes to border security.
I've been noticing updates from time to time about the Ceuta situation and it made me want to look into and double check the "adequately solved the problem" assessment.
There have still been 5k-8k migrants in Ceuta for weeks. Or a rotating population of around the same, I'm not sure exactly.
The government of Spain actually issued an apology to Ceuta over the incident. Spoiler: They didn't apologize for handling it too well.
As a result of tensions like the people who live there trashing the tent/shanty towns of migrants that are appearing. Residents blocked the Red Cross. A mob of migrants stoned a military vehicle with soldiers in it. The authorities also used rubber bullets but in this case to quell protestors. That last fact at least seems to vindicate someone's idea about nonlethal border security measures. And in the midst of all this Spain is asking for assistance still.
Spain has asked Europe’s Border and Coastguard Agency, Frontex, for help to process some 5,000 migrants in Ceuta who crossed into the North African territory one month ago.
Spanish Interior Minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska sent the request to Beate Gminder, the European Commission’s director general for migration and home affairs, on Friday.
Grande-Marlaska also requested an extra 10 Frontex officers to speed up screening efforts.
Spanish authorities must identify those remaining in Ceuta to establish whether they are entitled to international protection or, if not, begin procedures for their return.
Authorities say between 5,000 and 8,000 migrants, including unaccompanied children, still in Ceuta are among the 72,000 people who crossed the border from Morocco on July 30.
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EPT
