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On July 08 2017 04:56 Nyxisto wrote: "No, No Angela I'm telling you those are only Russian tourists in the Ukraine!"
Also the situation in Hamburg is really bad this year, these people need to stop settings things on fire
BBC says that only a small proportion of protestors are violent. Unless you are saying that people usually set things on fire in Hamburg.
well naturally it's only a small minority given the large number of protesters, but they've actively started to destroy stores and at this point even the local population is fed up which is quite an achievement. It's basically just the black block smashing stuff
They behave like terrorists and in the end they cry about violence by the police. I got zero tolerance for those guys, hopefully theyll get beaten up real good by the police.
I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
I agree with this, for the German rioters, but considering that probably like 3/4 of them were French/Italian/greek can you do this? Or are they getting immediately deported?
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
I agree with this, for the German rioters, but considering that probably like 3/4 of them were French/Italian/greek can you do this? Or are they getting immediately deported?
Hopefully not, France is not a safe country of origin. The country is total mess and under the state of emergency since 2015! Send them to Afghanistan instead, Merkel says it's safe over there!
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
I agree with this, for the German rioters, but considering that probably like 3/4 of them were French/Italian/greek can you do this? Or are they getting immediately deported?
Hopefully not, France is not a safe country of origin. The country is total mess and under the state of emergency since 2015! Send them to Afghanistan instead, Merkel says it's safe over there!
On July 08 2017 04:56 Nyxisto wrote: "No, No Angela I'm telling you those are only Russian tourists in the Ukraine!"
Also the situation in Hamburg is really bad this year, these people need to stop settings things on fire
BBC says that only a small proportion of protestors are violent. Unless you are saying that people usually set things on fire in Hamburg.
well naturally it's only a small minority given the large number of protesters, but they've actively started to destroy stores and at this point even the local population is fed up which is quite an achievement. It's basically just the black block smashing stuff
They behave like terrorists and in the end they cry about violence by the police. I got zero tolerance for those guys, hopefully theyll get beaten up real good by the police.
Yeh people say this until they're victim of police violence themselves. I don't have a lot.of sympathy for these protestors but a lot of police are scumbags as well.
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
I agree with this, for the German rioters, but considering that probably like 3/4 of them were French/Italian/greek can you do this? Or are they getting immediately deported?
Hopefully not, France is not a safe country of origin. The country is total mess and under the state of emergency since 2015! Send them to Afghanistan instead, Merkel says it's safe over there!
Why not just give them asylum in Germany?
You could do that legally, but it wouldn't really matter. These Southern Europeans will be gone within days and choose a different EU-country with an actual cuisine.
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
I agree with this, for the German rioters, but considering that probably like 3/4 of them were French/Italian/greek can you do this? Or are they getting immediately deported?
Hopefully not, France is not a safe country of origin. The country is total mess and under the state of emergency since 2015! Send them to Afghanistan instead, Merkel says it's safe over there!
Why not just give them asylum in Germany?
You could do that legally, but it wouldn't really matter. These Southern Europeans will be gone within days and choose a different EU-country with an actual cuisine.
I personally happen to be quite partial to German foodstuffs.
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
You don't get a few weeks social work for assaulting journalists and setting people's property on fire. Come on, now. These are people who actively plan to go out and assault innocent people.
I don' think either journalists or civilians were hurt or attacked, I think it was limited to property damage, police and protesters. If someone attacked civilians, sure the punishment should be harsher, but as much as I think that damaging property is stupid and useless, we shouldn't go overboard with the punishment either. It's good that there's a clear line between damaging property and hurting civilians.
On July 09 2017 04:26 Nyxisto wrote: I don' think either journalists or civilians were hurt or attacked, I think it was limited to property damage, police and protesters. If someone attacked civilians, sure the punishment should be harsher, but as much as I think that damaging property is stupid and useless, we shouldn't go overboard with the punishment either. It's good that there's a clear line between damaging property and hurting civilians.
burning cars, pillaging stores and most importantly assaulting policemen is a more than serious crime, how on earth can some social hours do justice here? They just throw bricks and fireworks into the police unprovoked, for me thats attempted murder. a lot of policemen got hurt, one apparently lost his eyesight. Those protestant are complete scum. They don't even feel that they're doing something wrong. I heard an interview where one of their spokesmen said that he fully supports devasting stores, but he is angry that some stores in his area also got destroyed lol. Those guys are insane beyond repair.
On July 09 2017 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: I don't want them to be beat up, we don't do Erdogan policing here, but putting these guys into a few weeks of social work and public cleaning might be a good idea
You don't get a few weeks social work for assaulting journalists and setting people's property on fire. Come on, now. These are people who actively plan to go out and assault innocent people.
Can you source the assaulting journalists part? It's not that I'm not believing you ( because with what happened yesterday everything is possible honestly) but the only incidents I've seen/heard so far against journalists were done by the police.
On July 09 2017 04:26 Nyxisto wrote: I don' think either journalists or civilians were hurt or attacked, I think it was limited to property damage, police and protesters. If someone attacked civilians, sure the punishment should be harsher, but as much as I think that damaging property is stupid and useless, we shouldn't go overboard with the punishment either. It's good that there's a clear line between damaging property and hurting civilians.
burning cars, pillaging stores and most importantly assaulting policemen is a more than serious crime, how on earth can some social hours do justice here? They just throw bricks and fireworks into the police unprovoked, for me thats attempted murder. a lot of policemen got hurt, one apparently lost his eyesight. Those protestant are complete scum. They don't even feel that they're doing something wrong. I heard an interview where one of their spokesmen said that he fully supports devasting stores, but he is angry that some stores in his area also got destroyed lol. Those guys are insane beyond repair.
I'm not keen on labeling anybody as scum or getting emotional about this, that's always problematic. This is not a normal situation in Germany, it's only a very few events that produce this, and to create sweepingly harsh laws and escalate the situation isn't helpful in the long run.
Everybody who has intentionally tried to attacked civilians obviously needs a much harsher punishment than someone who vandalized a car, but to talk about scum or foaming over people being beaten up by the police is not the right response either.
We should compensate the people who were affected by it, punish the people who were caught but we also shouldn't go overboard. I don't like the zealous tone every time these things happen.
On July 09 2017 04:26 Nyxisto wrote: I don' think either journalists or civilians were hurt or attacked, I think it was limited to property damage, police and protesters. If someone attacked civilians, sure the punishment should be harsher, but as much as I think that damaging property is stupid and useless, we shouldn't go overboard with the punishment either. It's good that there's a clear line between damaging property and hurting civilians.
burning cars, pillaging stores and most importantly assaulting policemen is a more than serious crime, how on earth can some social hours do justice here? They just throw bricks and fireworks into the police unprovoked, for me thats attempted murder. a lot of policemen got hurt, one apparently lost his eyesight. Those protestant are complete scum. They don't even feel that they're doing something wrong. I heard an interview where one of their spokesmen said that he fully supports devasting stores, but he is angry that some stores in his area also got destroyed lol. Those guys are insane beyond repair.
I'm not keen on labeling anybody as scum or getting emotional about this, that's always problematic. This is not a normal situation in Germany, it's only a very few events that produce this, and to create sweepingly harsh laws and escalate the situation isn't helpful in the long run.
Everybody who has intentionally tried to attacked civilians obviously needs a much harsher punishment than someone who vandalized a car, but to talk about scum or foaming over people being beaten up by the police is not the right response either.
We should compensate the people who were affected by it, punish the people who were caught but we also shouldn't go overboard. I don't like the zealous tone every time these things happen.
If you can actually figure out a specific person that destroyed a car, they are pretty fucked anyways. They will at least have to pay for the car, and have whatever lawful punishment there is for willfully destroying property.
I also don't think that breaking someones face with a brick during a demonstration is a worse or less bad crime than doing it at any other point. If you can prove that a person broke threw a brick at someone, they should be punished according to the law in both cases.
The problem with these demonstration riots is that it is usually very hard to prove that a single person did something. There is a bunch of people with scarves over their faces, and out of that mob, bricks fly and cars get torched. This situation obviously sucks, but there is no easy solution to it. You can't just arrest all of them and punish all of them as if they were guilty of everything the mob did. Thus, you need to figure out specific crimes to pin on specific people in that mob. Which sadly often means that you can only really prove something like "unruly conduct" or whatever.
I still think this solution is better than going totalitarian and punishing anyone close to where something happened. Don't think that means that i agree with the rioters, they are obviously silly.
And i agree that i dislike that zealous tone. There is a certain subset of posters that really likes to describe anyone they disagree with as "animals" or "scum". I do not think that that is ever helpful.
I can only shake my head if people think what happened is "unruly conduct" or that they will get away with a few social hours if caught. Just take a look into our criminal code. If you get caught setting fire to a car it is arson. If you are caught destroying shops, cars etc. it is aggravated rioting.
In both cases the maximum punishment is a 10 years prison sentence.
That's exactly the point. "If he got caught," that guy would and should go to jail, but how do you identify the one balaclava'd dude out of a hundred who threw the brick?
Because it's hard to pin crimes of the mob on individuals within the mob, you end up charging the whole mob with a distributed low grade crime rather than a couple of people with a high grade crime.
A specific crime of rioting covers most things and is better than "unruly behaviour", especially if it gets secondary participants, but the penalty for that is still much lighter than for bricking someone in the face in a normal situation.
I can only shake my head at the police for beating up a friend of mine (as well as many others) severely and not getting punished at all. Like aiming a water cannon at someone on a roof close to the border. From a layman's perspective that's attempted murder on the job.
e: for a little perspective, I talk about the former protestor, not the latter. If people take violence to the streets like that, I can support the use of special units. + Show Spoiler +
She climbed on an armored vehicle of the police. What kind of mindset do you need to have to do that in a already tense situation all around the city? Obviously the police have to get her down.
That being said, a friend of mine was there and protested peacefully the whole weekend without getting interfered much and without getting hurt. According to her, this was the case in most parts of the city.
EPT
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