EPTOn February 22 2017 23:06 MyTHicaL wrote:
Mélenchon is a boss ;o.
Mélenchon is a boss ;o.
My French isn't quite good enough to understand what's going on, can you summarize?
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 675
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LightSpectra
United States3409 Posts
My French isn't quite good enough to understand what's going on, can you summarize? | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On February 22 2017 23:39 DickMcFanny wrote: How do you know that? You're right, but why do you know this? I'm about to become a lawyer and my practice area includes public benefits, entitlements, and healthcare reform. Knowing what y'all are doing across the pond ends up being a pretty big difference maker in terms of pushing forward reform, particularly in the area of healthcare. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 22 2017 21:44 bardtown wrote: Can you point me to things he has done to make you feel this way? I'm also curious to hear about where Le Pen has overstepped the mark if anyone has examples (her specifically, not her father or party). The Front National has 30 years of xenophobic/racist messages, why would she even need to overstep the mark? The legacy and the name are enough, pretty much everyone knows where she stands regarding those questions. But you can still find cases where she triggered controversies, for instance when she compared some street prayers from Muslims (a marginal phenomenon which, of course, she had vastly exaggerated) to nazi occupation, or when she promised to—quoting literally—“eradicate bacterial immigration”. Add the fact that she had nothing to say during all the years where her father spouted his hateful and racist speeches when he was leading the party (she only started to condemn his sh*t recently, for the sake of the normalization storytelling), and that there are authentic neofacists around her (who manage the money of the party), and it's pretty clear where she stands. The majority of the population still perceive her as racist and belonging to the far-right. She barely needs to say radical things anymore, all she has to do is play on undertones and she'll get perfectly understood. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 22 2017 23:48 LightSpectra wrote: My French isn't quite good enough to understand what's going on, can you summarize? Mélenchon, at the beginning, accuses Le Pen of not being a true defender of sex equality (as she previously claimed), because she wants to cancel the coverage of abortion by the national healthcare system. Instead of answering the accusation, Le Pen goes on to first accuse the journalist of wanting a "boxing match" to boost audience figures instead of a "real debate", also saying (apparently falsely) that France 2 forced her to have Mélenchon against her in the debate. Then, she says that she refuses to debate with Mélenchon because he's a "small" candidate (literally saying "we're not on the same electoral level"), who has a "deeply anti-Republican attitude" (quoting several of Mélenchon's speeches attacking her) that is "insulting to millions of Frenchmen" who are ready to vote for her, and is "not a real candidate" (because he said that he'll call to vote for the candidate of the Left in the secound round). Basically, she spends 6+ minutes doing a typically politician non-answer to Mélenchon, who made a legit point. And then people will come and tell you that she's different from the usual politicians, that she's genuine, and all that shit... (Mélenchon then shows that FN members, at diverse levels of government, voted against texts favorizing sex equality) TLDR : Victimization at its finest. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 23 2017 02:03 LegalLord wrote: She is right that he is a peasant candidate though. Should get the Jeb Bush treatment. Well, at the time of the debate, I'm pretty sure they were even in the polls (iirc they were both at 15% (+- 3%) in the polls, and in the end Mélenchon underperformed at only 11-12% vs Le Pen's 17-18%), so I'm not sure what you're getting at On February 23 2017 02:11 Nyxisto wrote: the only group of people that threaten sex equality is obviously the religious right because they're the only group that is politically active and has the required numbers to roll the legal protection back. That shouldn't even be controversial. Obviously if you care for gay rights you cannot vote for Le Pen. Le Pen is not really the religious right anymore, though. Or, to be more precise, Le Pen is now much more than just the religious right. And she knows how to use sex equality and gay rights when it matters, that is, to spread anti-Muslim feelings. Fillon used a similar tactic at first when the fake job scandal began : his first reaction was to accuse the Canard Enchaîné of being "misogynist" for claiming that it was not normal for his wife to work because she was a woman (needless to say, the Canard Enchaîné never claimed or even hinted at such a thing). | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Hoping she makes it happen. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 23 2017 03:46 LegalLord wrote: Most recent polls suggest Fillon and Macron have reached parity (different polls have different candidates of the two winning), with Le Pen gaining in the head-to-heads. Hoping she makes it happen. Most recent Ifop poll from today still shows her losing severely to Macron or Fillon in head-to-head... (from 57/43 to 65/35) | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
http://cdn-new-parismatch.ladmedia.fr/var/ifop/22-02-2017.pdf | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
this is ridiculous | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6324 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 23 2017 05:39 LegalLord wrote: Maybe not having a platform is better than any concrete policy stances. Well, I mean, people are talking about him not having a real policy program, but when you look at how bad his opponents' programs are (random unexplained measures, one or two "best-seller" policies and nothing thought-out behind that, symbolic measures with no actual predictable effect, shock measures that are retracted once they create disapproval, etc), maybe it's not that bad. Macron has understood that it's not so much the actual policies that matter to the voter, but the reasoning and values behind them - something that Trump mastered with his MAGA motto. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 23 2017 15:23 OtherWorld wrote: Well, I mean, people are talking about him not having a real policy program, but when you look at how bad his opponents' programs are (random unexplained measures, one or two "best-seller" policies and nothing thought-out behind that, symbolic measures with no actual predictable effect, shock measures that are retracted once they create disapproval, etc), maybe it's not that bad. Macron has understood that it's not so much the actual policies that matter to the voter, but the reasoning and values behind them - something that Trump mastered with his MAGA motto. Trump had a few bestsellers though. The Wall is probably the most famous. I think Macron's strategy is great for the second round, not having too much to critizise about his policies makes it easy to accept him as a compromise once your favorite candidate has failed. But to get there is just about being as polarizing as possible. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
- For weeks, Bayrou (center-right) had attacked Macron for being the candidate of money, an “agent of financial interests,” and basically a danger for the independance of the political power. As a consequence, yesterday, Bayrou offered Macron... an alliance. Which Macron accepted, apparently against the vague promise of a law to “moralize the public life” (lol). Anyway, with Bayrou not running a fourth time for the presidential, Macron has the whole space near the centre for him. - Hamon (PS) and Jadot (ecologist) may conclude a deal soon. In that case, Jadot would drop out. (He weighs 1-2% in polls.) Negotiations between Hamon and Mélenchon (~radical left, though he doesn't present himself this way) failed before they even began. Hamon's campaign is fairly lackluster so far, he lost several points in polls since his victory at the primary and Mélenchon might surpass him again soon in the polls. Hamon is under pressure from the right wing of the PS, which is not happy with his political line and the way he runs the campaign. One of his concurrents at the primary, some social-liberal ecologist who had scored 3%, committed the first perjury of the primaries and decided to rally Macron. Not a big deal since he's a notorious opportunist and weighs absolutely nothing, but it's funny. - Mélenchon detailed his keynesian economic program in some 5 hour emission on his YouTube channel. - Fillon wants to stick until the end, whatever happens at judicial level. And if he's elected... 5 years of immunity. - Marine Le Pen's chief of staff was indicted in the case of the Front National's fake jobs at the European Parliament. It is suspected that she used the money of the European Parliament to pay several people who were only working for the National Front. As usual, she denied and cried conspiracy, etc. On a side note, Fillon + Le Pen weigh between 45 and 50% in the vote intentions. So we have one French in two who has apparently no problems voting for thieves who use public funds for their personal benefit or their party. Then those people will cry “all rotten!” and complain about our political life being dirty and corrupt   | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22675 Posts
On February 23 2017 20:18 TheDwf wrote: On a side note, Fillon + Le Pen weigh between 45 and 50% in the vote intentions. So we have one French in two who has apparently no problems voting for thieves who use public funds for their personal benefit or their party. Then those people will cry “all rotten!” and complain about our political life being dirty and corrupt Same thing during the US election. People are really good at eating up cheap propaganda if it confirms their world view and ignoring any hypocrisy in the message/messenger. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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