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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 10 2018 22:59 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2018 04:11 a_flayer wrote:
Because the US wanted to stop the Soviets from liberating the whole of Europe from capitalism =)
Don't respond to that, you'd be talking to a ghost.
It doesn't matter why you're here or why you're in South Korea, that time is of the past. We can be free people everywhere without bringing tanks to each others shores. I didn't intend for this to be a hostile encounter. You decided to randomly bring up these events of the past or even mention exploitation out of the blue.
Why do you think the relationship as it is is NOT unnatural, because I don't know how else to describe all the weight lying on the United States in these alliances. It's unnatural. Peace on the Korean Peninsula should be up to North and South Korea. Stability in Europe and Ukraine and Russia should be the business of those people involved. Not the United States, who is an ocean away. Past reasons be damned.
I wouldn't want the Trump administration negotiating for peace on my behalf if I lived in South Korea. How old are you? Do you remember the Balkan wars, when tiny countries more or less in the middle of Europe slaughtered each other to the best of their abilities? Do you remember the ethnic cleansings, the atrocities, the accompanying rhetoric? And most importantly, do you remember the utter inability of Europe to put an end to all of this until the US stepped in. People claiming Europe can defend itself either hopelessly overestimate us or want us defenseless. And quid pro quo, I'm 40+ these days.
I would hope the East is not the Europe it was back then, although I've seen the troubling signs as well.
And yes, we couldn't stop anything because we were dependent on the US. We should have started work to change that back then, although I was too young to really be aware of it. But you have come to the root of the unnatural problem in the relationship. So get your head out of the sand, old man, and do something. I was 15 when 9/11 hit and the West took that awful turn. I couldn't do anything about it then. Now, I can work to reverse it, but as it turns out, it's a fight against the demonic machine of neoliberalism.
On July 10 2018 23:24 Big J wrote:
Given the current trends in the formerly liberal states of Europe and America I have no hope for that until after the next World War.
Yeah, this.
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On July 10 2018 22:59 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2018 04:11 a_flayer wrote:
Because the US wanted to stop the Soviets from liberating the whole of Europe from capitalism =)
Don't respond to that, you'd be talking to a ghost.
It doesn't matter why you're here or why you're in South Korea, that time is of the past. We can be free people everywhere without bringing tanks to each others shores. I didn't intend for this to be a hostile encounter. You decided to randomly bring up these events of the past or even mention exploitation out of the blue.
Why do you think the relationship as it is is NOT unnatural, because I don't know how else to describe all the weight lying on the United States in these alliances. It's unnatural. Peace on the Korean Peninsula should be up to North and South Korea. Stability in Europe and Ukraine and Russia should be the business of those people involved. Not the United States, who is an ocean away. Past reasons be damned.
I wouldn't want the Trump administration negotiating for peace on my behalf if I lived in South Korea. How old are you? Do you remember the Balkan wars, when tiny countries more or less in the middle of Europe slaughtered each other to the best of their abilities? Do you remember the ethnic cleansings, the atrocities, the accompanying rhetoric? And most importantly, do you remember the utter inability of Europe to put an end to all of this until the US stepped in. People claiming Europe can defend itself either hopelessly overestimate us or want us defenseless. And quid pro quo, I'm 40+ these days.
The problem with Serbia is/was not that the rest of europe coulen't act, it is/was that Serbia is and has been Russia's door to middle and Southern Europe and its strategical position around the Black and Mediterranean Seas.
Hindsight doesn't help, but the way NATO broke international law has made a greate case in favor of Russian propaganda. And Russia is playing that card everyday now pointing towards the US and Germany when they are accused of breaking international law in the Ukraine or in other states.
The Balkan situation has been fucked up for 200-years and it will continue to be like that until the Serbs decide to choose individualist wealth and economic growth over Russian backed state socialism and state nationalism. Given the current trends in the formerly liberal states of Europe and America I have no hope for that until after the next World War.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On July 10 2018 23:24 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2018 22:59 Aiobhill wrote:On July 10 2018 04:11 a_flayer wrote:
Because the US wanted to stop the Soviets from liberating the whole of Europe from capitalism =)
Don't respond to that, you'd be talking to a ghost.
It doesn't matter why you're here or why you're in South Korea, that time is of the past. We can be free people everywhere without bringing tanks to each others shores. I didn't intend for this to be a hostile encounter. You decided to randomly bring up these events of the past or even mention exploitation out of the blue.
Why do you think the relationship as it is is NOT unnatural, because I don't know how else to describe all the weight lying on the United States in these alliances. It's unnatural. Peace on the Korean Peninsula should be up to North and South Korea. Stability in Europe and Ukraine and Russia should be the business of those people involved. Not the United States, who is an ocean away. Past reasons be damned.
I wouldn't want the Trump administration negotiating for peace on my behalf if I lived in South Korea. How old are you? Do you remember the Balkan wars, when tiny countries more or less in the middle of Europe slaughtered each other to the best of their abilities? Do you remember the ethnic cleansings, the atrocities, the accompanying rhetoric? And most importantly, do you remember the utter inability of Europe to put an end to all of this until the US stepped in. People claiming Europe can defend itself either hopelessly overestimate us or want us defenseless. And quid pro quo, I'm 40+ these days. The problem with Serbia is/was not that the rest of europe coulen't act, it is/was that Serbia is and has been Russia's door to middle and Southern Europe and its strategical position around the Black and Mediterranean Seas. Hindsight doesn't help, but the way NATO broke international law has made a greate case in favor of Russian propaganda. And Russia is playing that card everyday now pointing towards the US and Germany when they are accused of breaking international law in the Ukraine or in other states. The Balkan situation has been fucked up for 200-years and it will continue to be like that until the Serbs decide to choose individualist wealth and economic growth over Russian backed state socialism and state nationalism. Given the current trends in the formerly liberal states of Europe and America I have no hope for that until after the next World War.
Funny how you phrase it. I remember it differently - Yugoslavia broke away from USSR when Stalin was still alive and founded Non-Aligned Movement. As a sign of gratitude for this act of neutrality, the only help Yugoslavia received from the rest of Europe when the country started tearing itself apart was in the form of NATO bombings. After Yugoslavia broke up into multiple small states EU was and is more than happy to absorb them one by one - even socialistic and nationalistic Russian-backed Serbia.
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I don't think not pointing your rifle at someone entitles you to gratitude from them.
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On July 11 2018 02:50 Ingvar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2018 23:24 Big J wrote:On July 10 2018 22:59 Aiobhill wrote:On July 10 2018 04:11 a_flayer wrote:
Because the US wanted to stop the Soviets from liberating the whole of Europe from capitalism =)
Don't respond to that, you'd be talking to a ghost.
It doesn't matter why you're here or why you're in South Korea, that time is of the past. We can be free people everywhere without bringing tanks to each others shores. I didn't intend for this to be a hostile encounter. You decided to randomly bring up these events of the past or even mention exploitation out of the blue.
Why do you think the relationship as it is is NOT unnatural, because I don't know how else to describe all the weight lying on the United States in these alliances. It's unnatural. Peace on the Korean Peninsula should be up to North and South Korea. Stability in Europe and Ukraine and Russia should be the business of those people involved. Not the United States, who is an ocean away. Past reasons be damned.
I wouldn't want the Trump administration negotiating for peace on my behalf if I lived in South Korea. How old are you? Do you remember the Balkan wars, when tiny countries more or less in the middle of Europe slaughtered each other to the best of their abilities? Do you remember the ethnic cleansings, the atrocities, the accompanying rhetoric? And most importantly, do you remember the utter inability of Europe to put an end to all of this until the US stepped in. People claiming Europe can defend itself either hopelessly overestimate us or want us defenseless. And quid pro quo, I'm 40+ these days. The problem with Serbia is/was not that the rest of europe coulen't act, it is/was that Serbia is and has been Russia's door to middle and Southern Europe and its strategical position around the Black and Mediterranean Seas. Hindsight doesn't help, but the way NATO broke international law has made a greate case in favor of Russian propaganda. And Russia is playing that card everyday now pointing towards the US and Germany when they are accused of breaking international law in the Ukraine or in other states. The Balkan situation has been fucked up for 200-years and it will continue to be like that until the Serbs decide to choose individualist wealth and economic growth over Russian backed state socialism and state nationalism. Given the current trends in the formerly liberal states of Europe and America I have no hope for that until after the next World War. Funny how you phrase it. I remember it differently - Yugoslavia broke away from USSR when Stalin was still alive and founded Non-Aligned Movement. As a sign of gratitude for this act of neutrality, the only help Yugoslavia received from the rest of Europe when the country started tearing itself apart was in the form of NATO bombings. After Yugoslavia broke up into multiple small states EU was and is more than happy to absorb them one by one - even socialistic and nationalistic Russian-backed Serbia.
Lesson 1 of Russian propaganda: Pretend that Yugoslavia and Serbia are the same national entities.
The whole reason why Yugoslavia stayed independent from the USSR was due to Tito, a man who would be considered a Croatian in any time period outside of the one in which Yugoslavia existed.
The EU is not "absorbing" anyone. There is no pressure to join the EU from the EU. The only thing that makes these states come running to the EU are those examples that russia sets. Military interventions, economically exploited vassals and one economic crises after the other caused by nationalist/socialist/oligarchic central planning. It's not like having all of Eastern Europe join the EU is the dream scenario of any of the old Western countries either. But giving them the option to joing seems to be the least bad option in the light of Russian imperialism.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On July 11 2018 04:04 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:50 Ingvar wrote:On July 10 2018 23:24 Big J wrote:On July 10 2018 22:59 Aiobhill wrote:On July 10 2018 04:11 a_flayer wrote:
Because the US wanted to stop the Soviets from liberating the whole of Europe from capitalism =)
Don't respond to that, you'd be talking to a ghost.
It doesn't matter why you're here or why you're in South Korea, that time is of the past. We can be free people everywhere without bringing tanks to each others shores. I didn't intend for this to be a hostile encounter. You decided to randomly bring up these events of the past or even mention exploitation out of the blue.
Why do you think the relationship as it is is NOT unnatural, because I don't know how else to describe all the weight lying on the United States in these alliances. It's unnatural. Peace on the Korean Peninsula should be up to North and South Korea. Stability in Europe and Ukraine and Russia should be the business of those people involved. Not the United States, who is an ocean away. Past reasons be damned.
I wouldn't want the Trump administration negotiating for peace on my behalf if I lived in South Korea. How old are you? Do you remember the Balkan wars, when tiny countries more or less in the middle of Europe slaughtered each other to the best of their abilities? Do you remember the ethnic cleansings, the atrocities, the accompanying rhetoric? And most importantly, do you remember the utter inability of Europe to put an end to all of this until the US stepped in. People claiming Europe can defend itself either hopelessly overestimate us or want us defenseless. And quid pro quo, I'm 40+ these days. The problem with Serbia is/was not that the rest of europe coulen't act, it is/was that Serbia is and has been Russia's door to middle and Southern Europe and its strategical position around the Black and Mediterranean Seas. Hindsight doesn't help, but the way NATO broke international law has made a greate case in favor of Russian propaganda. And Russia is playing that card everyday now pointing towards the US and Germany when they are accused of breaking international law in the Ukraine or in other states. The Balkan situation has been fucked up for 200-years and it will continue to be like that until the Serbs decide to choose individualist wealth and economic growth over Russian backed state socialism and state nationalism. Given the current trends in the formerly liberal states of Europe and America I have no hope for that until after the next World War. Funny how you phrase it. I remember it differently - Yugoslavia broke away from USSR when Stalin was still alive and founded Non-Aligned Movement. As a sign of gratitude for this act of neutrality, the only help Yugoslavia received from the rest of Europe when the country started tearing itself apart was in the form of NATO bombings. After Yugoslavia broke up into multiple small states EU was and is more than happy to absorb them one by one - even socialistic and nationalistic Russian-backed Serbia. Lesson 1 of Russian propaganda: Pretend that Yugoslavia and Serbia are the same national entities. The whole reason why Yugoslavia stayed independent from the USSR was due to Tito, a man who would be considered a Croatian in any time period outside of the one in which Yugoslavia existed. The EU is not "absorbing" anyone. There is no pressure to join the EU from the EU. The only thing that makes these states come running to the EU are those examples that russia sets. Military interventions, economically exploited vassals and one economic crises after the other caused by nationalist/socialist/oligarchic central planning. It's not like having all of Eastern Europe join the EU is the dream scenario of any of the old Western countries either. But giving them the option to joing seems to be the least bad option in the light of Russian imperialism.
Let's see: Yugoslavia was initially ruled by Serbian dynasty, Serbs formed the biggest ethnic group in Yugoslavia, Serbian (or whatever you prefer to call it) language was lingua franca in Yugoslavia, Serbs formed the majority in JNA - this clearly shows there is no connection between Yugoslavia and Serbia as national entities) I also think that calling Tito - a bilingual child in a mixed Croat and Slovene family who was born in Austro-Hungarian empire and was a citizen of Yugoslavia since reaching adulthood - a Croatian is a bit intellectually dishonest.
European Union is an economy-based union first and foremost. When it is profitable there is a pressure to join EU from the EU - it just isn't an end goal like in imperialism. If it can't be achieved outright then finer methods are used - EEA membership binds Norway to EU in all the important ways while forfeiting Norway's right to participate in decisions - guess what offer would come from EU if Norway would want to participate in them? Likewise, Turkey's application never got serious traction even when the relations between EU and Turkey were better.
I could have argued that united Yugoslavia was a less profitable candidate to join EU than small separated former republics so there was no action to save it - but I'm not high on conspiracy theories. Therefore, I fail to see what backing does modern Serbia get from Russia - what I see is mostly lip service to friendship which isn't backed by any political or economical moves.
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At the time of the breakup, all Yugoslavia's republics were offered in secret meetings which were held in Vienna and Belgrade to join EU and NATO but as a package (all or none basically), 1-2 republics refused thinking they can salvage the situation and keep Yugoslavia going. There was a documentary recently about this and former top officials from Yugoslavia who were at those meetings talked about it. I think that was the first time we as a public found out about it as well. If those people weren't universally dumb back then, we'd all be way better off now and perhaps all the atrocities wouldn't have happened...
Yugoslavia didn't want to align with anyone (peace conference in Yalta I believe), Stalin got mad and had at least 5 unsuccessful assassination attempts on Tito's life. Tito even wrote Stalin a letter telling him to stop sending assassins or he'll be forced to send one too and that there wont be a need for a 2nd one, clearly mocking him lol. The relationship between Russia and Yugoslavia deteriorated in the early 50's as far as I know.
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Source on the secret meeting?
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TL is a Marxist echo chamber now. Or just about to become one, which is basically the same.
I'm writing this in response to my latest banning from the US thread since obviously I can't reply there, so please pardon the off-topic intervention.
Now, to the long and winded point. Having been here for over 10 years, I can clearly see TL has been hijacked by regressive leftists in precisely the way the very people who do the hijacking constantly fail to understand - which is: forcefully limiting the horizon of "allowable" discourse by the gradual erosive process of authoritarian ideological though-policing, in this case reporting and banning, of any reasonable dissenting opinion or communication styles - especially humor or pragmatic economics as opposed to emotion-based utopian grandstanding and collectivism - which results in a progressively more sterile environment where progressively minor offenses are considered reportable and justifiably bannable, diversity of opinion keeps on shrinking and more emotions are ruffled more easily ... and so on, and so on, ad nauseam, until there's nothing left but parrots and you start to eat your own because us normal folks are already gone.
TL used to be a fun gaming site where smart kids fooled around and exchanged views. We had idiotic topics like PUA (which I detested with particular vigor), lifting, MMA and other silly stuff, lots of joking (the difference in wit is staggering) and also in addition to the fun, the many interesting discussions that still appear to be happening - but no longer actually happen - on here.
Fast forward a couple of years and TL is effectively a progressive echo chamber stretched across the final couple of active threads. Just like modern academia. Grats, your work (or should I say the work of your cognitive masters) is complete.
I fail to understand which of the things I pointed out were remotely untrue. It seems to be an observable fact my latest comments resulted in some rather lively discussion (3 pages and literally zero vitriol?). No ad-hominems, no insults. Just a different kind of perspective.
Some of the posts that got me banned for months this year (the same posts would not have gotten me banned 5 years ago while this site was still politically neutral) were objectively funny (people actually told me so in PMs). I never -ever- willingly trolled, lied or shitposted - this I can state with absolute honesty. Just me speaking my relatively informed mind (I'm almost 40 and have been working in academia for a decade, it's safe to say I'm not a complete cretin), or, alternatively, cracking rude jokes. Because ... rude jokes are funny! Being mildly offensive is part of what constitutes not only humor but independent thinking itself. Especially when it targets violently cancerous people like Jeff Sessions or Hillary Clinton. These people deserve to be laughed at. Still, nowadays I seem to get banned by the Comrades for basically any post I make.
Since I'm looking to engage with the threads and reply, having your pen constantly taken away by Big Brother just when you're starting a discussion is rather demotivating. I no longer feel welcome on the platform, and so I won't be posting much any more since it's a waste of my time.
... and so, starting with the "trolls" and "bigots" and then lining up anyone to the right of center (which tend to simultaneously be people whose character refuses political correctness), you've already chased away all the hardline conservatives (let's just take a look at the political representation among the banned. How many radical leftists? Oh, none. Cool. How about "far right" posters? All of them? Cool.), and all the people who refuse to uphold the intellectually classist mode of expression, by reporting and banning us on a daily basis. Of course, this is exactly what you want - to eradicate opinion contrary to your ideology. More precisely, it's the ideology itself desperately defending its own existence. You're just its unwitting puppets.
I'm wondering how many times Zlefin, GH, Igne or Plansix have reported me this year between the four of them. It's just a hint I have ... pure speculation ... that at least one of them has been mashing the report button at the sight of my name.
For some context, in my roughly 13 years of actively participating on TL where I was also personally insulted numerous times, I have reported a grand total of 0 posts. Zero. I read letters, flip them around in my head and move on.
That's how people like me (whose character aligns with "right-field values") tend to operate. We are able to separate emotion from discourse and so we don't need to purge people who don't fit the dogma from our cognitive horizon. The result is free exchange of information, also known as free speech. Not anymore, not on this site.
Sadly, there is no victory in this for you guys. You've conquered this little space (which was certainly never yours to take), and now you'll keep happily rotting intellectually in your little pool of poo. Creatures like me were here for the fun and entertaining gaming site that TL used to be, we're not signing up to be educated in the progressive agenda. We contributed in earnest, and now the playground is off limits we're just moving elsewhere. In my case, to environments that resemble TL before Stalin's police took over – specifically discussion groups on Facebook where participants are interested in open argumentation and willing to set their emotions aside.
Getting shoved out of this digital space by bullies has merely reinforced my beliefs (while also evidently proving them). This, let me stress, is highly simptomatic of what is going on in current society and something most of you simply don't understand. There is literally no other way the phenomenon of leftist fascism ever works in the final analysis. It eradicates the centre through bureaucratic, autocratic and peer-pressure bullying, and then goes to war with the fascists it has helped create. Or at least, that's what happened in 1930 Germany 
Incidentally, it is the exact mechanism that powers Trump voters. You see, people don't want to be told to sit down and shut up because everything they believe in is wrong by default, especially not by depressed, resentful college students and liberal elites, both of whom tend to mingle with reality far less than they seem to believe. Of course, in the contemporary world of many bubbles, there are many parallel realities, just like there are parallel economies. You guys are stuck in your own, with a particular narrative that will not be questioned. Or that's how it appears to me, at least.
It's been fun participating for 10+ years. For a non-trivial chunk of my life I've been getting most of my news and critical thinking ideas from TL, browsed it daily, had some amazing exchanges with sparkly intelligent individuals sprinkled with lots of nonchalant banter. For that, I thank you all from my heart. It was like a fun and elaborate interactive newspaper. Sadly, this is no longer that place. The ideology won't have it. I guess xDaunt is the only pet conservative you're likely to entertain.
My final crime? Suggesting the sitting president of the US is, in fact, just maybe, not a blubbering retard but might be a person who understands politics in the current zeitgeist (ideological possession, voting by emotion as opposed to reason, minute audience attention span, memetic communication, unity through common pride) on a phenomenally acute level (as evidenced by his objective historical success in actual, real-life politics, in spite of having the entire global corporate media apparatus against him since day one, and increasingly so). Apparently, pointing out some painstakingly obvious problems to an oblivious audience is a bannable offense on this leet intellectual site. The correct thing, it would seem, is to believe that a man who has effectively been commanding global media attention by using nothing but twitter and the emotions of his opposition and supporters for years now has to be an idiot. He has to be a moron!!!! He has to be, yes, or conversely, your complete understanding of the world is broken, and that just won't do. Since I don't have 2 hours to write insanely elaborate posts about things people who think they have reality solved are fundamentally ignorant of. I took my time and wrote posts the same way I write, or talk, anywhere else. And so, I'll be taking my interest in open-minded discussion elsewhere while you guys can continue your ideological masturbation and patting each other on your collective backs while, hilariously, being constantly shocked by the global political and social developments; the many nuances of which you clearly fail to understand.
For the report-spamming college radicals in here who think they're the epitome of smarts and it's actually reality and other people that is constantly being stupid, please remember this post when Trump easily wins in 2020 and goes down in history as a legendary statesman and a decent American president ... and you're completely baffled by what's happening yet again.
Finally, lest I do myself a disservice, allow me to conclude in my preferred ruffian manner. As Bill Burr would say, you can all gobble my fragrant balls and sturdy dick ^_^
tata
Jeremy a.k.a. Kickboxer
User was banned for this post.
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Who let Jordan Peterson in here?
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Was it the same fast track that was used by countries that joined in 2004? I find it hard to believe Yugoslavia had a chance to join the union years before Czechia.
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Way to undermine your point by insulting anybody else and then claiming they are the ones that don't allow other points of view
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Nice, I’m a Marxist now. I love being awarded new titles.
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How postmodern of you :p
And why is this in the EU tread...
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On July 12 2018 22:33 Velr wrote:
How postmodern of you :p
And why is this in the EU tread...
He got thread banned from the US pol thread, the EU thread must suffer 
The best part is that he is whining about report spamming, but the post that got him banned from the US pol thread was never reported. A mod saw he was back on his bullshit and banned his ass from the thread.
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How do you know it wasn't reported?
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If you try to report a post that has been reported, the site tells you it was already reported.
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I'm going to report all of kickboxer's post now, so you sound insane.
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Ah, Kickboxer. Never missed, never mourned. May your ban be eternal so you can enjoy martyring yourself. I also love that he's acting like we haven't all predicted Trump will win again in 2020. Like... does anyone genuinely think he's losing at this juncture?
Is he a bit like the legendary Bardtown, of whom I've heard but predated my posting on the site?
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EPT
