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On July 28 2014 23:38 Butterednuts wrote:
I saw the banner and thought that there was some revolutionary gay news that happened over the weekend.
Regardless, I'm happy to see TeamLiquid be so supportive and initiate support for equality. Thank you so much, Team Liquid!
What would qualify as revolutionary gay news? Lmao sorry its a funny thing to say, headlines suddenly "scientists find way for same-sex couples to have their own children!"
And as others have mentioned, good for you TL.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 29 2014 00:46 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 23:38 Butterednuts wrote:
I saw the banner and thought that there was some revolutionary gay news that happened over the weekend.
Regardless, I'm happy to see TeamLiquid be so supportive and initiate support for equality. Thank you so much, Team Liquid! What would qualify as revolutionary gay news? Lmao sorry its a funny thing to say, headlines suddenly "scientists find way for same-sex couples to have their own children!" And as others have mentioned, good for you TL.
Well I can think of a whole bunch of interesting breakthroughs that could happen as far as the T in LGBT goes 
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On July 26 2014 14:27 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Like I mentioned in the previous thread, an unnecessary political statement and a slap in the face of those who contribute to the site that do not share the same political views.
And as always with political stuff: if you don't enjoy it, ignore it (or start a wild discussion with TL staff about how this site is being led in a monarchic kind of way that you think sucks. #irony).
I actually thing that gay pride parades are as stupid as hetero pride parades would be. Sadly, we live in a time where there are still people around that do not use their brain to its full extent. In a truely equal world, gay pride would be as unnecessary as, well, wars or cancer. Being gay is not a thing to be proud of, it's simply normal.
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Much love to all members on this site, y'all are my friends and an online family of sorts to me.
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On July 28 2014 22:48 LeeJohnDong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 14:01 Pangpootata wrote:On July 27 2014 01:10 r.Evo wrote:
Once more, I'm completely happy if TL wants to be political in any shape or form, I'm completely happy if TL wants to push for equal rights for everyone in places where those rights aren't supported. I just firmly believe that putting up a banner and calling it a day is a horrible way to go about it. It's completely non-committal and not more or less than a nice gesture. I agree that the rainbow horse doesn't have much effect by itself, but just because TL puts up a nice gesture doesn't mean that it doesn't have concrete actions to make LGBT people feel comfortable. For example, TL will ban people who hate on gays or say inappropriate things about Scarlett in the forum. To make an analogy, if you want to stop animal cruelty, you will put up signs saying stop animal cruelty, as well as take concrete actions to punish offenders. The signs don't have much effect by themselves, but are an important part of the campaign as it raises awareness, as well as reiterates the firm stance of the ruling organisation in eradicating bad behaviour. A campaign with punishments for offenders, but without any signs, will certainly be much less effective. Similarly, TL's rainbow horse also raises awareness on the discrimination LGBT people still face (which is clearly needed, as evinced by the people in this thread who are myopic enough to only consider select western communities, and somehow think that LGBT rights are no longer a problem.) It also serves as a reminder to the TL denizens that derogatory comments against LGBT people will not be tolerated. This, in conjunction with the warnings and bans that mods hand out, will form a complete campaign to support equal rights in the TL forum. Wait.. Why would Scarlett be targeted for people to say stuff? and how is that relevant to this discussion?
Because she's transgender, which is what the "T" in LGBT stands for.
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gotta say pridehunter looks great on liquiddota
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On July 28 2014 22:48 LeeJohnDong wrote:
Wait.. Why would Scarlett be targeted for people to say stuff? and how is that relevant to this discussion?
Son we may need to sit down and talk...
( In all seriousness, happy to see rainbow horse flying high and proud. )
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Well done TL! Thanks for showing support for the community.
To the people who say, "We yada yada yada, get yada yada out of esports." Go back to complaining about how awareness of disease is detrimental to society and how educating people about sex leads to more abortions.
Again! Thank you TL! Means a lot to us! Being accepted by a group of people who I know I can talk to when things get rough matters to me. 
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You could arguably say that "equal rights" in the context of supporting LGBT means "supporting equal rights for LGBT people", rather than "equal rights for everyone in general, but we'll narrowly only consider LGBT due to personal preference".
I actually haven't been to an LGBT parade, I don't know if they're in your face about it. But really, even if they do have rallies that most other minority groups don't have, and maybe if they are more "loud and proud" than seems necessary, its not really a big deal. It should be remarked on as an oddity, like an intense group of people declaring their joy for flying model airplanes.
Just in the context of helping a specific group of people this is a nice effort. It feels so much better to know that a forum you frequent supports these things, I guess it just feels more personal and real than any other rally on the street, because I don't really know those people so well.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 29 2014 03:03 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 14:27 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Like I mentioned in the previous thread, an unnecessary political statement and a slap in the face of those who contribute to the site that do not share the same political views. And as always with political stuff: if you don't enjoy it, ignore it (or start a wild discussion with TL staff about how this site is being led in a monarchic kind of way that you think sucks. #irony). I actually thing that gay pride parades are as stupid as hetero pride parades would be. Sadly, we live in a time where there are still people around that do not use their brain to its full extent. In a truely equal world, gay pride would be as unnecessary as, well, wars or cancer. Being gay is not a thing to be proud of, it's simply normal.
Sigh there are always these statements such as "black pride is the same as white pride and gay pride is the same as hetero pride".
Here's the thing: gays/minorities have been made to feel in the past like less than a person, and gay pride parades do a number of things. 1) they celebrate the fact that the world is (slowly) becoming more tolerant 2) allow gay people who have perhaps been condemned for what they are to meet with and be accepted by like minded individuals and 3) they help people who live in parts of the world where they still are scared to come out (all over) see that you can in fact be proud of who you are. Hetero pride isn't the same thing because heterosexual people don't have the same struggles as LBGT people do
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I'm glad TL supports the LGBT community (i myself used to be a monthly donor to HRC) but I'm also incredibly frustrated that this has to even be an issue which is discussed. I can't imagine a less important topic than men/women that are sexually attracted to the same sex. It shouldn't even be a 'thing', who the hell cares?! It's incredibly sad we're distracted by these pointless issues when we (as a collective society USA or otherwise) could focus on more important issues.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 29 2014 09:50 crms wrote:
I'm glad TL supports the LGBT community (i myself used to be a monthly donor to HRC) but I'm also incredibly frustrated that this has to even be an issue which is discussed. I can't imagine a less important topic than men/women that are sexually attracted to the same sex. It shouldn't even be a 'thing', who the hell cares?! It's incredibly sad we're distracted by these pointless issues when we (as a collective society USA or otherwise) could focus on more important issues.
It would be nice if everyone treated it like a non issue, but a lot of people don't. There are places in the world where it is a criminal offense to be gay, so I feel it actually is an important issue to talk about.
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Pride hunter is lovely indeed!
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On July 29 2014 09:40 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 03:03 boxerfred wrote:On July 26 2014 14:27 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Like I mentioned in the previous thread, an unnecessary political statement and a slap in the face of those who contribute to the site that do not share the same political views. And as always with political stuff: if you don't enjoy it, ignore it (or start a wild discussion with TL staff about how this site is being led in a monarchic kind of way that you think sucks. #irony). I actually thing that gay pride parades are as stupid as hetero pride parades would be. Sadly, we live in a time where there are still people around that do not use their brain to its full extent. In a truely equal world, gay pride would be as unnecessary as, well, wars or cancer. Being gay is not a thing to be proud of, it's simply normal. Sigh there are always these statements such as "black pride is the same as white pride and gay pride is the same as hetero pride". Here's the thing: gays/minorities have been made to feel in the past like less than a person, and gay pride parades do a number of things. 1) they celebrate the fact that the world is (slowly) becoming more tolerant 2) allow gay people who have perhaps been condemned for what they are to meet with and be accepted by like minded individuals and 3) they help people who live in parts of the world where they still are scared to come out (all over) see that you can in fact be proud of who you are. Hetero pride isn't the same thing because heterosexual people don't have the same struggles as LBGT people do
You're right! As long as you have to fight for it, you can be proud of it. I just wanted to express the thought that in a perfect world, pride parades would not be necessary in any way. Personally, I think that sexual preferences are something very private and intimate, and do not belong to demonstrations in the public. That's just me, though.
You're saying "Hetero pride isn't the same thing because heterosexual people don't have the same struggles as LBGT people do" - in a perfect world, those struggles wouldn't exist. But I love all those groups for putting up the fight for their rights, and it's a great thing of TL to show its support via the banner.
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To r.EVO:
I think it is a bit narrow minded to take the view that the lgbt issue is now passe. For most tl users, their country (the us) is just beginning to recognise lgbt rights. For yet more users such as myself, consensual sex between adult gay men is still a crime which you can get imprisoned for. Or even killed in some African states. While it is great that the European union has largely lead the way on this, please don't forget that people still struggle with this else where.
In fact nerds and geeks have until recently been a somewhat uncool status and it was on sites like teamliquid where we were able to share our interests without the rest of society judging our hobby. So i think it's wonderful that teamliquid is doing what it is doing to show support and solidarity with others who are also being judged or discriminated against.
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On July 29 2014 15:45 levelping wrote:
To r.EVO:
I think it is a bit narrow minded to take the view that the lgbt issue is now passe. For most tl users, their country (the us) is just beginning to recognise lgbt rights. For yet more users such as myself, consensual sex between adult gay men is still a crime which you can get imprisoned for. Or even killed in some African states. While it is great that the European union has largely lead the way on this, please don't forget that people still struggle with this else where.
In fact nerds and geeks have until recently been a somewhat uncool status and it was on sites like teamliquid where we were able to share our interests without the rest of society judging our hobby. So i think it's wonderful that teamliquid is doing what it is doing to show support and solidarity with others who are also being judged or discriminated against.
Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I don't believe a change of the TL logo or a gay pride parade in the middle of Amsterdam helps gays in Singapore in any shape or form (maybe in the US or Italy, I'll give you that). Apart from that it's preaching to the choir (since, as can be clearly seen from these threads, the amount of "anti-LGBT" people is pretty much non-existent on this site due to awesome moderation) and, to me, incredibly hypocritical to celebrate it as more.
As someone said earlier, there is nothing wrong with just a nice non-committal gesture. But holy hell, pretending it's any more than that is just delusional.
Same deal with Pride Parades. Personally, despite being into things that aren't exactly mainstream or "vanilla", I don't go out on the streets to celebrate it either. Why? Because sexuality is something inherently personal. It's your business and the business of people you have relationships with (as many as you'd like to for all that I care). To me such a parade is equivalent to me beating my girlfriend through the streets and being confused if people are offended by that or intervene and/or call me fucking retarded for doing such a scene in public which is exactly what it would be.
Doing such a thing would make the general public (which in the end determines what's legal and what not) most likely think worse of me despite me just "celebrating my sexuality in public". Wouldn't I be stupid to do such a thing? If there was a country where beating your significant other is illegal no matter the context (I'm sure there has to be one) I'd like them to reconsider their stance by seeing "Hey, those guys aren't any different from us, they just do different things in the bedroom" instead of giving them more arguments on why their stance is awesome and how morally indecent the thing is they're forbidding ("LOOK AT THOSE GUYS IN THE STREETS HOLY SHIT THEY'RE ANIMALS!!!").
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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On July 29 2014 16:18 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 15:45 levelping wrote:
To r.EVO:
I think it is a bit narrow minded to take the view that the lgbt issue is now passe. For most tl users, their country (the us) is just beginning to recognise lgbt rights. For yet more users such as myself, consensual sex between adult gay men is still a crime which you can get imprisoned for. Or even killed in some African states. While it is great that the European union has largely lead the way on this, please don't forget that people still struggle with this else where.
In fact nerds and geeks have until recently been a somewhat uncool status and it was on sites like teamliquid where we were able to share our interests without the rest of society judging our hobby. So i think it's wonderful that teamliquid is doing what it is doing to show support and solidarity with others who are also being judged or discriminated against. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I don't believe a change of the TL logo or a gay pride parade in the middle of Amsterdam helps gays in Singapore in any shape or form (maybe in the US or Italy, I'll give you that). Apart from that it's preaching to the choir (since, as can be clearly seen from these threads, the amount of "anti-LGBT" people is pretty much non-existent on this site due to awesome moderation) and, to me, incredibly hypocritical to celebrate it as more. As someone said earlier, there is nothing wrong with just a nice non-committal gesture. But holy hell, pretending it's any more than that is just delusional. Same deal with Pride Parades. Personally, despite being into things that aren't exactly mainstream or "vanilla", I don't go out on the streets to celebrate it either. Why? Because sexuality is something inherently personal. It's your business and the business of people you have relationships with (as many as you'd like to for all that I care). To me such a parade is equivalent to me beating my girlfriend through the streets and being confused if people are offended by that or intervene and/or call me fucking retarded for doing such a scene in public which is exactly what it would be. Doing such a thing would make the general public (which in the end determines what's legal and what not) most likely think worse of me despite me just "celebrating my sexuality in public". Wouldn't I be stupid to do such a thing? If there was a country where beating your significant other is illegal no matter the context (I'm sure there has to be one) I'd like them to reconsider their stance by seeing "Hey, those guys aren't any different from us, they just do different things in the bedroom" instead of giving them more arguments on why their stance is awesome and how morally indecent the thing is they're forbidding ("LOOK AT THOSE GUYS IN THE STREETS HOLY SHIT THEY'RE ANIMALS!!!").
I kinda think you need to take a step back and calm down because you're projecting a number of things onto the rainbow horse which isn't in issue. As the op states this is just a small gesture to extend support and goodwill. No one suggests it's about to change the world, or the laws of Singapore. Further I think I am in a better position to say whether this helps gays in Singapore since I'm actually in this country, and I would appreciate if you didn't jump to conclusions on my behalf. When you are in a country where being gay is illegal and religious leaders routinely suggest that gays and lesbians are out to convert children into an immoral lifestyle, it is a small bit meaningful experience to come to your favourite gaming website to see that hey at least someone cares, even from the other side of the globe.
Also you're a reasonable poster, so I hope you can see that consensual intercourse between adults is different from and should not be compared to beating your girlfriend. Unless of course you're referring to it in some sort of bdsm context, in which case you are at full liberty to do so and as far as I know no one will stop you and her so long as it is consensual. So the comparison is still flawed since your sexual lifestyle as a straight man is something you are at full liberty to pursue, and is something that receives far more social and cultural acceptance than gay couplings.
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Norway28779 Posts
r.evo it's like, I don't know what you're trying to argue here, or why you're trying, if you're just so urban-north-western europe-centric that gay rights seems like something we've fought for and won, or what the deal is. Because it's like, we on the teamliquid staff know that teamliquid is a webpage dedicated to computer games, and that we don't actually dictate global policy. We understand that countries where homosexuality is illegal will not suddenly make it legal because we changed our logo. Still though, I think it's nice to show our support, even knowing that it will not immediately convince any policy makers of anything. Furthermore, it seems like you are somehow very positive towards homosexuality and homosexuals, but you don't support us voicing our support of homosexuality and homosexuals' ability to freely showcase their sexuality because there are still other sexual or other minorities that need our support more?
I mean, firstly, I actually literally think that homosexuals are the minority most repressed on a global scale. In western europe, I can accept that being a muslim immigrant is probably tougher, but either way, that's irrelevant. Because what you're arguing is essentially that you should ignore whatever isn't the most pressing issue in the world. And only one thing can actually be the most pressing issue in the world. In reality, way more than one thing is messed up about this beautiful planet we inhabit and well, there's also a lot of people and a lot of different communities out there.
Secondly, have you ever played computer games on the internet before and have you been to other communities formed by and inhabited by males in their late teens or twenties? Most of these communities, hell, most places inhabited by male teenagers, suffer from the word "gay" being thrown around ubiquitously as some generic negative word. Faggot is certainly among the most used direct insults. Even though it might not be that big a deal to you, I don't know how linguistically conscious you are, I've talked to several homosexuals who find this hurtful, and I live in a Norwegian city - as open of a region as you could possibly find. Our community comparably being relatively free from insults deriving from sexual orientation is a consequence of our active stance in this issue. These logo changes reflect that and are very much in line with the broader site philosophy.
Thirdly, pride rallies. I'm actually shocked that you tried to make an analogy equating homosexuality to beating your girlfriend, but I'll chalk that up to "linguistic unconsciousness" because I don't actually think you think that homosexuality is anything like that. Maybe what you meant to do was equate it to some type of SM-fetish thing where your girlfriend was actually very happy and even sexually aroused through being slapped around the city, but you didn't say that and I need to base my reply around what you wrote rather than what you possibly could have meant to say that would make it less stupid. And it would be pretty stupid anyway. Either way though, there are multiple reasons why pride rallies are important.
Like you said, sexuality is personal. So is opening up about being gay. For many homosexuals, "leaving the closet" is about the biggest decision they ever make. It's such a difficult thing that there are still many who don't do it. It almost seems like most homosexuals try out heterosexuality because they really really want to be normal, accepted and not having to worry about people finding out who they "really" are. Pride rallies are one great, great avenue for homosexuals who have not yet had the guts to openly tell society about who they are: Firstly, they can see that other people who are homosexuals are actually parading through the streets without being beaten up and hated. Strength in numbers and all that. Secondly, it's actually possible to participate anonymously in those - which again can be really helpful for teenagers who are on the verge of accepting their "new identity". Thirdly, while you seem to think that western european societies are completely accepting of homosexuals and homosexuality, pride rallies deserve some credit for this development through normalizing behavior we previously found shocking. Two men holding hands while walking down the street - which in Trondheim would have been a fairly shocking sight 20 years ago - and something countless homosexuals have been beaten up over - just doesn't hold the same shock value when you just last week watched twenty leather-clad ultra-flamboyant homosexuals partying through the streets on some crazy gay party bus.
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Is Mora still around? I'm sure he'd love the reason behind the banner :p
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EPT
