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United States23455 Posts
On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry.
… I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people".
This really isn't online activism either it's really just a gesture of support to members of the LBGT community that may use TL. Also there seems to be a lot of "Why care about any issue if it's not literally THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE AS DEFINED BY ME?" or "Why do anything in regards to an issue if it's not the hardest you can possibly work to support that issue?"
It seems odd to me that people object so strongly to small gestures of support from TL
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On July 30 2014 01:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Are you really trying to say that liking violent sex is similar to homosexuality? That it's part of your identity in the same way?
I really don't think they're as far away from each other as you make it out to be. Sure, as Scarlett put it "Who you're into is not the same as what you're into" but at the same time I believe both are similar enough to be thrown under the same hood: If it's between two people who can consent, who do consent and who gain happiness from it (with the legislator stepping in to avoid long-term harm or actual injuries), why isn't it about the same?
Nobody knows that you like to punch your gf when you have sex with her (or whatever your thing is, no judgement from me!), so it's not part of your identity.
Is it really? As with many other kinksters I remember having fantasies since a rather young age (12-14) and as with many others I could not imagine having a kink-free relationship. If you look around for a bit you find dozens of stories about people who have been married for 10+ years in vanilla relationships, people who have tried to adjust to the "sexual norm" and people who are genuinely suffering under the feeling that they are completely abnormal and disgusting.
It's eerily similar to LGBT stories, is it not?
The main reason I'm mentioning it as "less accepted" at the same time is because the way legislators and e.g. therapists treat it on top of the public opinion. People recommend so called "Kink aware" lists of therapists for example to find one that does not try to treat your for an abusive relationship when you're genuinely happy in said relationship and visiting him for something else. Ever had a conversation with feminists who, despite insisting on sexual self-determination, also insist that any and all violence against a woman has to be abuse and trying to explain you your relationship can only exist because you're forcing the other into it aka Stockholm syndrome?
At the same time we don't have "homosexuality aware" therapists (despite it being treated as a disorder before) or, in general, you don't have to justify yourself because someone can't imagine anyone (!) wanting a gay sexual relatonship.
Homosexuals don't have this luxury; they can only be with the ones they love as long as society approves, because everyone can immediately see that they are homosexuals.
I genuinely don't think so. (Still in the aforementioned countries on this one.) We obviously agree that meeting someone in specific clubs or figuring out your sexuality in your bedroom isn't an issue so it comes down to doing stuff in public. How does society prevent anyone from holding hands together? Kissing in public? Sure, there might be weird looks, but there always will be for anything that isn't "normal" in the sense of "the norm" and that's totally alright. So what is left is your family, friends and co-workers. I don't know about you but I personally have cut ties with friends and family in the past if they've shown that they would break off a personal relationship because of what (or who) someone is into. Again, to me that's just part of growing up and getting older.
So what's left is your place of work. Bill saw you kissing your boyfriend in public and is telling stories about how you're gay and is starting to make fun of it. Nowadays, in our countries, the unions have our back, lawyers have our back and judges have our back. Yes, it most likely is a bigger deal than a "completely normal" person would have to deal with (which again, I consider to be alright), but if someone wants to challenge you being with your loved ones at your place of work you have all the tools at hand to stand your ground and fight it out legally. It's really not much different from someone being discriminated against because of their gender or their religion.
but it's also why pride rallies have played an important role in making gays more comfortable with being publicly gay, because the pride rallies push the boundaries for what is acceptable. (for example two men holding hands is less offensive after you watched a gay orgy).
I can understand your other point but that is what I consider complete and utter bullshit. I don't want to be shown a gay orgy. I don't want someone else to be shown what I do in the bedroom. Personal freedom has to stop where another persons personal freedom begins and that's one step too far. I don't care whether it's a gay orgy, a heterosexual orgy or a bdsm orgy. It doesn't belong in public where neutral observers can easily see it by accident. That's a classy example of something that I see celebrated in the LGBT community when all it does is make everyone involved look stupid, immature and inconsiderate. We have laws against a heterosexual orgy in the streets and the same laws should apply to homosexuals. So either we make orgies in public alright (please fucking no) or we tell anyone who is doing one to get it behind closed doors.
Further, gaming communities are in general dominated by male teenagers/early twenties, ours is very international and has a majority of its membership base from outside north-western Europe, and I just think it's nice to subtly (at least by pride-rally standards :D) voice our support in addition to the other moderational efforts we make. You are of course entitled to think it's a useless effort, and to think that maybe it does absolutely nothing at all.. We however have evidence of that not being the case because both this year and last year, several gay members of our community stated how they were really happy to see us voice our support for their cause, and from my perspective, that alone makes it worth it. If we were doing this while our staff members called people faggot while banning them, you'd have a very good point in saying that this is just useless posturing, but us changing the color of our horses' mane does not diminish any other efforts we're making, and us focusing on homosexuals does not mean that we're blind to or uncaring about other worldly problems.
As I already said, I feel as if an action like this is a horrible example to follow because it's been abused left right and center. Someone puts up a nice flag to support a cause, people clap in excitement and everyone goes home after a week and is like "Man, I'm glad place xyz really supports a good cause!" when nothing of value has been done.
I think it just makes it weirder that this is coming from the staff of a site that's known for excellence in whatever it does, for high quality content and for setting the bar for others. Personally I'd rather see no public displays for a thing like this (while keeping the policies up) than a seemingly random public display without quality content. Final Edits, stories, interviews, blogs, picture stories - TL has dozens of ways to "promote gay rights" in meaningful ways that can touch people and can change minds. Individual stories, struggles and emotions. Just... not just a banner change.
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On July 30 2014 03:25 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry. … I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/ Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people".
This might delve slightly off-topic but this is probably the one thread where people actually care to read sources: Which people that are arrested for being gay in Russia?
According to this paper (which is still the best analysis of the "Russian anti-gay-laws" I've read since the western media tore the topic apart) there have been a total of two convictions since 2006, both of which have been overturned since. I highly recommend checking out the paper I linked either way, simply because it seems pretty well researched compared to what I've gotten from our media. It's obviously written by an American for Americans (hence the direct comparisons) but that shouldn't really be a deterrent.
Maybe we have someone from Russia who can out it as utter bullshit or clarify the issue a little more.
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Ah, I was pretty confused since the major NA pride weeks were last month, didn't think of checking Europe. Glad to see this 
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To put it plainly, kink and homosexuals are different things. Yes there are common issues but to suggest that your sexual fetishism is on the same order as sexual orientation is just not intellectually honest. You're not applying your mind to the degree to which kink and orientation feature in people's lives. And further it's a false comparison between public violent sex and homosexuality. Pride Parades aren't all about sex in public it's a celebration about being gay, which as we have taken pains to point out, is much more than anal sex.
Look, just because the kink community does things one way does not mean that it's the best way for all minorities. I've no idea why you seem to think that the gay community should follow the kink model as well. How about you guys do your thing and the gays do their thing. Heck if you want your consensual rape parade go ahead. If you never wanted one in the first place then why complain about pride parades?
Finally as to the rainbow horse I'd really suggest that you let those who are more connected to the issue decide on whether it's meaningful. From your posts it seems that you're not lgbtq and so probably aren't in the best position to say whether the rainbow horse is good or not. In addition, the need for you to limit all your arguments to countries with very liberal gay laws already suggests that you concede that this could well be a meaningful gesture to the rest of the world who aren't from Germany and Scandinavia.
On a personal note I find it rather annoying that you're commenting on the usefulness of a gesture which does not really affect you, and holding teamliquid to your own arbitrary standard of what would be "appropriate action". This sort of sentiment seems to me to be implicitly dismissive of actual lgbtq people who do have a very real stake in this issue. I mean if we accept what you're saying completely we would have to remove the rainbow horse (assuming we aren't going to do more) despite the fact that many members both lgbtq and straight find meaningful. Empathy man. Have some.
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On July 30 2014 01:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Are you really trying to say that liking violent sex is similar to homosexuality? That it's part of your identity in the same way?
See it's like, I can get where you're coming from kinda. Because you, like most enlightened western youth, only consider homosexuals different from heterosexuals in terms of what sex they prefer. They prefer having sex with men, just like you prefer sex when it's "more exciting". But the thing is, like you're saying, sex is private. Nobody knows that you like to punch your gf when you have sex with her (or whatever your thing is, no judgement from me!), so it's not part of your identity. Being homosexual differs greatly in this one aspect. Like, right now, whether society approves of your sexual habits doesn't really matter much as long as you can find someone to enjoy them with, because nobody else has to know. Homosexuals don't have this luxury; they can only be with the ones they love as long as society approves, because everyone can immediately see that they are homosexuals.
This is why "coming out" and being accepted for it is so important. And that's why fighting an active stance against slurry language is very important - one of the biggest issues for homosexual teenagers is that all their friends, who might not be homophobic at all, throw around fag and gay like insults without considering how that's hurtful to their closet homosexual friends, but it's also why pride rallies have played an important role in making gays more comfortable with being publicly gay, because the pride rallies push the boundaries for what is acceptable. (for example two men holding hands is less offensive after you watched a gay orgy). Further, gaming communities are in general dominated by male teenagers/early twenties, ours is very international and has a majority of its membership base from outside north-western Europe, and I just think it's nice to subtly (at least by pride-rally standards :D) voice our support in addition to the other moderational efforts we make. You are of course entitled to think it's a useless effort, and to think that maybe it does absolutely nothing at all.. We however have evidence of that not being the case because both this year and last year, several gay members of our community stated how they were really happy to see us voice our support for their cause, and from my perspective, that alone makes it worth it. If we were doing this while our staff members called people faggot while banning them, you'd have a very good point in saying that this is just useless posturing, but us changing the color of our horses' mane does not diminish any other efforts we're making, and us focusing on homosexuals does not mean that we're blind to or uncaring about other worldly problems.
I wouldn't say that the BDSM comparison is entirely off. Obviously there are differing degrees of involvement in the lifestyle, but I imagine that coming out as an extreme submissive to your significant other of X months/years is no less terrifying than telling your family that you're gay. Or ultra conservative parents stumbling on your gag and rope is just as problematic as them finding you kissing someone of the same gender.
And dismissing it as just something to spice up your sex life kind of shows that you haven't given the same level of research to this subject as you have for LGBT material. Granted, there are plenty of people who just pull out ropes for a one-off experiment. But there are also people who have a much more compulsive and psychological attachment, where being in a "vanilla" relationship is probably very analogous to being in a relationship with someone of a gender you're not attracted to.
Of course, if there is anyone with a large investment in a BDSM lifestyle here, don't let me speak for you. Can't say I have any personal knowledge.
(Also not suggesting we have the Liquid horse turn into a Wooden pony for a week)
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United States23455 Posts
On July 30 2014 12:00 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 03:25 Darkhorse wrote:On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry. … I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/ Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people". This might delve slightly off-topic but this is probably the one thread where people actually care to read sources: Which people that are arrested for being gay in Russia? According to this paper (which is still the best analysis of the "Russian anti-gay-laws" I've read since the western media tore the topic apart) there have been a total of two convictions since 2006, both of which have been overturned since. I highly recommend checking out the paper I linked either way, simply because it seems pretty well researched compared to what I've gotten from our media. It's obviously written by an American for Americans (hence the direct comparisons) but that shouldn't really be a deterrent. Maybe we have someone from Russia who can out it as utter bullshit or clarify the issue a little more.
Probably should have been more thorough in researching the situation in Russia before posting about it here. That was a bad example and thank you for pointing that out.
I think my point still stands, however. It is a big issue (not the biggest issue in the world overall probably) because there is in fact persecution for homosexuals all over the world. I erroneously used Russia as an example but that is hardly the worst area to be gay, just got a lot of attention because it is a first world country and were strict on homosexuality.
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On July 30 2014 12:11 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 12:00 r.Evo wrote:On July 30 2014 03:25 Darkhorse wrote:On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry. … I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/ Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people". This might delve slightly off-topic but this is probably the one thread where people actually care to read sources: Which people that are arrested for being gay in Russia? According to this paper (which is still the best analysis of the "Russian anti-gay-laws" I've read since the western media tore the topic apart) there have been a total of two convictions since 2006, both of which have been overturned since. I highly recommend checking out the paper I linked either way, simply because it seems pretty well researched compared to what I've gotten from our media. It's obviously written by an American for Americans (hence the direct comparisons) but that shouldn't really be a deterrent. Maybe we have someone from Russia who can out it as utter bullshit or clarify the issue a little more. Probably should have been more thorough in researching the situation in Russia before posting about it here. That was a bad example and thank you for pointing that out. I think my point still stands, however. It is a big issue (not the biggest issue in the world overall probably) because there is in fact persecution for homosexuals all over the world. I erroneously used Russia as an example but that is hardly the worst area to be gay, just got a lot of attention because it is a first world country and were strict on homosexuality.
I mostly mentioned it because I'm not sure myself if that article I linked is factually absolutely correct, it's just become a thing to mention how it's illegal to be gay in Russia when it might not be entirely true. Not trying to take away the general point. <3
On July 30 2014 12:07 levelping wrote:
To put it plainly, kink and homosexuals are different things. Yes there are common issues but to suggest that your sexual fetishism is on the same order as sexual orientation is just not intellectually honest. You're not applying your mind to the degree to which kink and orientation feature in people's lives.
Things like 24/7 relationships have probably a stronger feature in people's lives than any possible "regular" hetero or homosexual relationships. Hell there are lots and lots of members of various kink communities who literally can't be happy without it in a relationship. Why do you consider it any different if a man craves a relationship with another man or if a man craves a relationship with another women in which he isn't allowed to ever orgasm unless she allows him to?
You're trying to argue that one thing is better or worse when my point is that any and all relationships between consenting individuals (yes, plural) that are able to give consent should be treated the same. No more or less rights for anyone. Within that spirit it is very, very easily to follow up with "Things like polyamoric or BDSM relationships are treated less equal than homosexual relationships". The sheer idea that you try to turn this into some form of "us vs them" is completely bonkers.
On a personal note I find it rather annoying that you're commenting on the usefulness of a gesture which does not really affect you, and holding teamliquid to your own arbitrary standard of what would be "appropriate action". This sort of sentiment seems to me to be implicitly dismissive of actual lgbtq people who do have a very real stake in this issue. I mean if we accept what you're saying completely we would have to remove the rainbow horse (assuming we aren't going to do more) despite the fact that many members both lgbtq and straight find meaningful.
It doesn't affect me? The idea that changing a banner or putting up a flag equals "showing support" is incredibly prominent both online and offline. It has become a politically correct, non-committing way of saying "I really support an issue but I don't really want to do anything about it that has actual value or requires time and effort". It's what I expect politicians to do, not a place that actually cares.
If you'd accept what I'm saying completely we'd have interviews with LGBT eSports figures, we'd have a blog of R1CH getting drunk with Nazgul in the streets of Amsterdam and there would be a Final Edit piece about the history of famous gay figures in eSports.
TL is known for action, active policies and quality content and that's the TL I've come to love over the years. A banner change with a couple of happy faces isn't part of that. Do it right, or don't do it at all. I really, genuinely don't care that the issue that this was done first with is a rainbow horse.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 30 2014 12:39 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 12:11 Darkhorse wrote:On July 30 2014 12:00 r.Evo wrote:On July 30 2014 03:25 Darkhorse wrote:On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry. … I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/ Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people". This might delve slightly off-topic but this is probably the one thread where people actually care to read sources: Which people that are arrested for being gay in Russia? According to this paper (which is still the best analysis of the "Russian anti-gay-laws" I've read since the western media tore the topic apart) there have been a total of two convictions since 2006, both of which have been overturned since. I highly recommend checking out the paper I linked either way, simply because it seems pretty well researched compared to what I've gotten from our media. It's obviously written by an American for Americans (hence the direct comparisons) but that shouldn't really be a deterrent. Maybe we have someone from Russia who can out it as utter bullshit or clarify the issue a little more. Probably should have been more thorough in researching the situation in Russia before posting about it here. That was a bad example and thank you for pointing that out. I think my point still stands, however. It is a big issue (not the biggest issue in the world overall probably) because there is in fact persecution for homosexuals all over the world. I erroneously used Russia as an example but that is hardly the worst area to be gay, just got a lot of attention because it is a first world country and were strict on homosexuality. I mostly mentioned it because I'm not sure myself if that article I linked is factually absolutely correct, it's just become a thing to mention how it's illegal to be gay in Russia when it might not be entirely true. Not trying to take away the general point. <3
Yeah apparently laws that outlaw homosexuality are sparsely enforced in most places. In that spotlight on Uganda's anti-gay laws on Last Week Tonight the guest said that over the past few years there had only been one conviction and he didn't even serve his sentence (although he then said that they seem to be preparing to crack down)
Anyway it would seem that the guy writing the thing about Russia's law knows what he's talking about, but I am no lawyer.
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At r.EVO:
I'm not turning this into us versus them. On the contrary in the second paragraph of my previous post I've already stated that the kink community is free to do whatever it wants but that it's flawed to think that what works for kink works for the gay community. It's actually you, albeit unintentionally I am sure, who has brought this conversation down to "well the kink community does this why must the gay community so something else". If it's kink parades you want go ahead (I'm sure there are some), if you don't want them that's cool too.
Even accepting what you say about some kink relationships being 24/7 (though I fail to see how they will feature stronger than regular homosexual lifestyles since homosexuals also happen to be homosexual 24/7) the above point would apply. That said while I can accept that in some very dedicated dom/sub relationships the kink lifestyle would be immensely pervasive, this small number of cases cannot compare to being gay wherein any relationship would be 24/7 homosexual, to use your terminology. The comparison remains disingenuous.
Finally what you are proposing is that tl either so it all or nothing. This is first a false dichotomy that arises from a purely arbitrary standard you have created. Second, I think this thread and the fact that not all tl readers come fromm the countries of Germany and Scandinavia (another artifical restriction you rely on to make your arguments work - if we are talking about the world it is pretty obvious that the kink community is able to legally get married, have children etc everywhere but homosexuals aren't able to, entirely negating your concern that what happens between consensual adults should receive the same rights (which as a matter of fact they don't), and leaving your argument with no legs to stand on) readily demonstrate that contrary to your expectations many do find this a meaningful and good expression of support. Your notion that we should take this whole thing down without coverage of Amsterdam Pride is pretty disrespectful of everyone else's (many of whom might, unlike yourself, actually be lgbtq and so have a personal stake in this) view of this being quite meaningful.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
On July 30 2014 12:00 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 03:25 Darkhorse wrote:On July 29 2014 23:56 zdfgucker wrote:On July 29 2014 23:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Good job TL. And I'm actually shocked that there are still people who argue and rant, instead of simply appreciating the message. Just because you choose to support one cause doesnt mean you ignore the rest. If TL had something on the site for every cause, there wouldn't be any room for content. Right now, the global issue of rights for LGBT is a big thing, and something worth getting behind. All you people lipping off need to just accept that this is the cause chosen by TL in support of its members. Online activism is laughable at best and sad at worst. By looking at a shiny banner you change pretty much nothing. If anybody cared enough, they'd be protesting in the streets. Also, this is a "big thing", according to whom? A few internet people? I'm sure those people are vastly outnumbered by people who live in real poverty. I blocked the whole banner, I don't want politics on TL, sorry. … I think it is a big thing globally according to people in Uganda/ Russia/etc that are being arrested for being gay not according to "A few internet people". This might delve slightly off-topic but this is probably the one thread where people actually care to read sources: Which people that are arrested for being gay in Russia? According to this paper (which is still the best analysis of the "Russian anti-gay-laws" I've read since the western media tore the topic apart) there have been a total of two convictions since 2006, both of which have been overturned since. I highly recommend checking out the paper I linked either way, simply because it seems pretty well researched compared to what I've gotten from our media. It's obviously written by an American for Americans (hence the direct comparisons) but that shouldn't really be a deterrent. Maybe we have someone from Russia who can out it as utter bullshit or clarify the issue a little more.
As far as I know no one is arrested here just for being gay. In that way Russia is definitely better than Uganda. I think the main problem here is that rights guaranteed by our Constitution (like for example freedom of assembly) often don't work for LGBT people. That goes not only for LGBT though. And of course Russian society in general is homophobic and this attitude is actually backed by our authorities and the media.
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good to know that our religious fanatic r.evo is back to continue his crusade against the evil gays he started last year.
User was warned for this post
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Off all the issues of the modern world You choose to make a stand on this on? Hunger, genocides, wars, pollution, tortures, illegal occupations, diseases and much more....And yet the one thing that TL makes political stand on is LGBT.This is weird.
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On July 30 2014 15:39 Silvanel wrote:
Off all the issues of the modern world You choose to make a stand on this on? Hunger, genocides, wars, pollution, tortures, illegal occupations, diseases and much more....And yet the one thing that TL makes political stand on is LGBT.This is weird.
False dichotomy suggesting that caring about lgbt issues means you don't care about everything else. Also liquid drone has explained why this is important given the prevalence of homosexual slurs in gaming culture.
Try again.
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So what I was expecting was a thread full of (maybe slightly over-the-top) praise for a nice gesture. I am so confused and baffled by some of these responses, I really am.
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On July 30 2014 15:43 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 15:39 Silvanel wrote:
Off all the issues of the modern world You choose to make a stand on this on? Hunger, genocides, wars, pollution, tortures, illegal occupations, diseases and much more....And yet the one thing that TL makes political stand on is LGBT.This is weird. False dichotomy suggesting that caring about lgbt issues means you don't care about everything else. Also liquid drone has explained why this is important given the prevalence of homosexual slurs in gaming culture. Try again.
BS. Racial slurs are much more prelevant in gaming culture.
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On July 30 2014 15:51 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 15:43 levelping wrote:On July 30 2014 15:39 Silvanel wrote:
Off all the issues of the modern world You choose to make a stand on this on? Hunger, genocides, wars, pollution, tortures, illegal occupations, diseases and much more....And yet the one thing that TL makes political stand on is LGBT.This is weird. False dichotomy suggesting that caring about lgbt issues means you don't care about everything else. Also liquid drone has explained why this is important given the prevalence of homosexual slurs in gaming culture. Try again. BS. Racial slurs are much more prelevant in gaming culture.
I'm at a loss as to why your statement (even if you can show it to be true, which I find doubtful) makes what I just said bullshit. Both are issues so why can't tl address one?
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I'm a trans, otherkin, half demon so this banner really hits me right in the feeluns. LGBTOMGWTFBBQ for lyf.
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About gaming:
So why dont they adress the other (issue)? It has been a year since last action, and i havent noticed any stand against racism in gaming. Perhaps, i have missed some, in that case please point me to it.
About broader picture:
I am sorry if i sound harsh but right now it looks to me that people in TL care more about LGBT than they care about genocide in palestine or war in Ukraine/Syria/Iraq . Which is fucking sad, because i love this site. People are dying right now. beacuse they are shiia, or beacuse they happen to live in palastine/Eastern Ukraine.
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On July 30 2014 16:04 Silvanel wrote:
About gaming:
So why dont they adress the other (issue)? It has been a year since last action, and i havent noticed any stand against racism in gaming. Perhaps, i have missed some, in that case please point me to it.
About broader picture:
I am sorry if i sound harsh but right now it looks to me that people in TL care more about LGBT than they care about genocide in palestine or war in Ukraine/Syria/Iraq . Which is fucking sad, because i love this site. People are dying right now. beacuse they are shiia, or beacuse they happen to live in palastine/Eastern Ukraine.
But it's an arbitrary thing to require that tl must try to address all problems in gaming at the same time, or do nothing. It's also absurdly impractical since it will mean that no one can try solving anything unless they have the answers for all problems.
The same applies to other issues in the world. If you read the first post you'd readily see thay the rainbow horse is obviously not intended to take away the importance of world issues. And it's also plainly absurd to suggest that taking a stand on lgbtq issues means we don't care about Syria or Ukraine. If you apply that argument fully then nearly every conversation on this forum (on balance in sc2, death of e sports, end of IM...) would also be "disrespectful" of those suffering in Syria.
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EPT
