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On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis.
It's sadly not far off from reality.
On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo.
I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with.
"A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof".
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On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof".
If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other.
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On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other.
Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity.
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On August 01 2014 06:52 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity.
I've been to Israel for a while a few years ago. I do know some Arab immigrants, but I also don't know why that is relevant.
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On August 01 2014 06:52 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:52 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity. I've been to Israel for a while a few years ago. I do know some Arab immigrants, but I also don't know why that is relevant.
Because you have a terrible view on arabs and muslim people.
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On August 01 2014 06:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:52 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:52 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:
[quote]
And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity. I've been to Israel for a while a few years ago. I do know some Arab immigrants, but I also don't know why that is relevant. Because you have a terrible view on arabs and muslim people.
I'm not generally accusing Muslims of anything. Most Muslim immigrants here in Germany are perfectly nice people, although there are some immigration issues. But having to live in a state whose legal system is build upon the literal interpretation of the Qur'an is fucking terrible, period. Having religion permeate law is uncivilized and brutal, and in the Arab World(and Iran) radical Islam is widely practised in exactly that way. If I say that I prefer a one state solution then I'm not saying that because I'm a bloodthirsty Zionist but because living in Israel will help the Palestinian people more than living in some kind of theocratic state.
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On August 01 2014 07:01 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:55 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:52 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:52 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity. I've been to Israel for a while a few years ago. I do know some Arab immigrants, but I also don't know why that is relevant. Because you have a terrible view on arabs and muslim people. I'm not generally accusing Muslims of anything. Most Muslim immigrants here in Germany are perfectly nice people, although there are some immigration issues. But having to live in a state whose legal system is build upon the literal interpretation of the Qur'an is fucking terrible, period. Having religion permeate law is uncivilized and brutal, and in the Arab World(and Iran) radical Islam is widely practised in exactly that way.
That's an occidentalo centrist view - anhistorical.
Again, if you put the qur'an in a vacuum, it is terrible, but you are putting aside the fact that we - occidentals in the broadest sense - created those monsters for the most part. People in Iran are one of the most impressive, well educated people I've seen, one of the most refined culture. But you, you assume that this kind of extremism is inbuilt in their society - something that any historian of the middle east would tell you it is not.
Because of those a priori, you cannot foresee a world were arabs in the middle east, free of any colonialism or oppression from the occidental society, would not attack anyone and live peacefully.
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On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other.
Are opinions like yours popular amongst Germans in general?
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![[image loading]](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mby61z2vtu1qzcjwoo1_500.jpg)
The before pictures are from before the West began meddling. Nothing good ever comes from meddling - people don't like it and become extremists.
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On August 01 2014 07:15 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Are opinions like yours popular amongst Germans in general?
Depends, younger generations are mostly more "pro-Palestine", while older generations tend to be more "pro-Israel".
at the picture above: "before meddling?" You gotta be kidding me. The Shahs were strongly supported by the US and the UK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
edit: wrong link
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TLADT24920 Posts
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On August 01 2014 07:01 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:55 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:52 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:52 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Do you know any arab or muslim people ? Have you ever been in the middle east ? Just asking this out of curiosity. I've been to Israel for a while a few years ago. I do know some Arab immigrants, but I also don't know why that is relevant. Because you have a terrible view on arabs and muslim people. I'm not generally accusing Muslims of anything. Most Muslim immigrants here in Germany are perfectly nice people, although there are some immigration issues. But having to live in a state whose legal system is build upon the literal interpretation of the Qur'an is fucking terrible, period. Having religion permeate law is uncivilized and brutal, and in the Arab World(and Iran) radical Islam is widely practised in exactly that way. If I say that I prefer a one state solution then I'm not saying that because I'm a bloodthirsty Zionist but because living in Israel will help the Palestinian people more than living in some kind of theocratic state.
If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other.
Seriously when people have an attitude like this, you have any questions why they supported Hamas?
You're still living in the 19th century where you carry the white man's burden, bringing civilization into the darkness with machine guns and gunboats.
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists. Does the word Lebensraum ring a bell? That's what historical Palestine is being used for, and next on the menu is the West Bank.
What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules?
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On August 01 2014 07:18 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 07:15 redviper wrote:On August 01 2014 06:48 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality. On August 01 2014 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean I personally think a 1-state solution where every palestinian is a full citizen with voting rights would be "ideal" but I don't have any illusions regarding how likely that is.
If international powers impose a 2-state solution I'm not sure how anybody expects to stop israel re-imposing the status quo. I also think the two state solution is pretty much dead. Let Israel take Gaza with equal rights for everyone and let Jordan take the Westbank. It's probably the most realistic scenario everybody can live with. "A two state is impossible because arabs will always try to kill them so it's better to make them live under the same roof". If they're under Israels control and unarmed they'll have a pretty hard time killing each other. Are opinions like yours popular amongst Germans in general? Depends, younger generations are mostly more "pro-Palestine", while older generations tend to be more "pro-Israel". at the picture above: "before meddling?" You gotta be kidding me. The Shahs were strongly supported by the US and the UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlaviedit: wrong link
Yes at the time meddling was even bigger than today. But extremism was different : back then it was deeply influenced by socialism and communism. Since the end of the cold war, the far left ideologies disappeared and two things took place in the middle east : military power or islamic radicalism.
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On August 01 2014 07:27 EtherealBlade wrote:
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists.
You can repeat that a million times but it will still be false. No, many Israeli's identify with secular forms of Judaism. "hardcore zionism"(there are some "this is our holy land people" around among orthodox zionists, but they're not dictating politics) is a nationalistic movement, not a religious one.
What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules?
I think apartheid regimes are fucking awful. I have also already over the course of some dozen pages tried to explain why I think that Israel does not fit into this category.
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On August 01 2014 07:39 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 07:27 EtherealBlade wrote:
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists. You can repeat that a million times but it will still be false. No, many Israeli's identify with secular forms of Judaism. "hardcore zionism"(there are some "this is our holy land people" around among orthodox zionists, but they're not dictating politics) is a nationalistic movement, not a religious one. Show nested quote +What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules? I think apartheid regimes are fucking awful. I have also already over the course of some dozen pages tried to explain why I think that Israel does not fit into this category.
Will you be sad with the two state solution and israel ending the settlements on occupied land?
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On August 01 2014 07:45 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 07:39 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 07:27 EtherealBlade wrote:
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists. You can repeat that a million times but it will still be false. No, many Israeli's identify with secular forms of Judaism. "hardcore zionism"(there are some "this is our holy land people" around among orthodox zionists, but they're not dictating politics) is a nationalistic movement, not a religious one. What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules? I think apartheid regimes are fucking awful. I have also already over the course of some dozen pages tried to explain why I think that Israel does not fit into this category. Will you be sad with the two state solution and israel ending the settlements on occupied land?
If I knew beforehand that there would be peace ? Yes, that would be pretty great. But I don't think that. I think Palestine would be armed up and in a few years and we'd see a really bloody war. And if I were an Israeli politician and would have the responsibility for that I certainly would not let it happen.
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On August 01 2014 07:39 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 07:27 EtherealBlade wrote:
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists. You can repeat that a million times but it will still be false. No, many Israeli's identify with secular forms of Judaism. "hardcore zionism"(there are some "this is our holy land people" around among orthodox zionists, but they're not dictating politics) is a nationalistic movement, not a religious one. Show nested quote +What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules? I think apartheid regimes are fucking awful. I have also already over the course of some dozen pages tried to explain why I think that Israel does not fit into this category.
Someone is directing the settlement program and I would assume those people would probably be people who don't recognize palestines right to exist because if they did there would be no reason to possibly support it. Also even if it was 50 years ago now someone thought it would be a good idea to be only 1st world country of the last 100 years to take land after winning a war and nobody seems to want to give the land back that was taken.
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On August 01 2014 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 02:27 DinoMight wrote:
How is Hamas's rocket fire different from what Israel is doing? It's not, both sides are at war. However, Hamas has been firing rockets for years. And if Israel stopped shooting that wouldn't change what hamas does, whereas if hamas stopped shooting so would Israel.
False. The number of rockets fired fell quite considerably, to their lowest levels in years, after the ceasefire agreed on the 21st of November 2012. There are considerable variations on the number of rockets fired depending on the amount of violence Israel is using. See here, point number 3, and the chart they link to.
On August 01 2014 06:44 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 06:32 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 06:15 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 06:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 01 2014 05:36 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think both Israel and Palestine should have their govenments ripped out and rebuilt. Give both sides equal arms.
If they then kill each other again then leave em to it. An international force should demilitarize the Hamas, assure police in gaza, force a two state settlement and protect palestinians from Israel. And what kind of state would that be? A theocratic state or a democratic state? Will the people be left alone or will some international force be present? It's hard to imagine Palestinian state that would be able to survive on it's own with some kind of intact legal system and civil rights. What if it is a theocratic state ? If it live in peace, people can do whatever they want. Because they'd probably get armed by their best friends in the region (Iran *cough*) and I could understand why Israel would never tolerate that. You're right, the best way is to nuke all Palestine because there is no end to this conflict and since there are too many arabs - iran, syria, irak, etc. - and that they are all dangerous extremists who can't never ever accept a jewish state in the holy land, and who just don't want to live in peace, we should bomb them too. It's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks... That's Bush level analysis. It's sadly not far off from reality.
Did you seriously just say that the sentence "it's all the fault of arabs for being savage, undemocratic religious freaks" is "not far off from reality"?
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On August 01 2014 07:48 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 07:45 ImFromPortugal wrote:On August 01 2014 07:39 Nyxisto wrote:On August 01 2014 07:27 EtherealBlade wrote:
Even then, your argument fails because you cannot see how Israel is not interested in "civilizing", since they themselves hold their holy book to literal interpretation which you seem to despise in the case of Islam but dismiss it for zionists. You can repeat that a million times but it will still be false. No, many Israeli's identify with secular forms of Judaism. "hardcore zionism"(there are some "this is our holy land people" around among orthodox zionists, but they're not dictating politics) is a nationalistic movement, not a religious one. What's your view on South Africa of White Australia and the like? I'm genuinely curious. Subduing the natives is ok as long as we invent the rules? I think apartheid regimes are fucking awful. I have also already over the course of some dozen pages tried to explain why I think that Israel does not fit into this category. Will you be sad with the two state solution and israel ending the settlements on occupied land? If I knew beforehand that there would be peace ? Yes, that would be pretty great. But I don't think that. I think Palestine would be armed up and in a few years and we'd see a really bloody war. And if I were an Israeli politician and would have the responsibility for that I certainly would not let it happen.
So you think that the palestinians don't have a right to a state of their own? What do you think its the best scenario for the violence to stop.
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EPT
