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Zurich15361 Posts
On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.)
People like to exaggerate. There is no genocide going on.
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On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand.To me it just seems like a terrible side effect to this terrible war. I don't think it's Israel's intent to kill Civilians, it just happens with how this war is being fought, so I don't see why everyone is calling Obama a murder and hearing people say what Israel is doing is just as bad as what hitler did but I don't think the deliberate intent to tkill civilians for their race/religion is there, it just happens when there's thousands of missiles hitting a small strip of land and they don't have the Highest missile defense technology like Israel but that's just my opinion and there's a lot more people with a better understanding of this conflict and previous ones dating back decades.
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On August 01 2014 20:46 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) People like to exaggerate. There is no genocide going on.
Its disingenuous to say the least. Rhetoric like that is no good for anyone. It just moves the debate away from reality, which is pointless.
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On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas.
No, it doesn't qualify as a genocide according to the legal definition of the term.
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Zurich15361 Posts
On August 01 2014 21:10 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas. No, it doesn't qualify as a genocide according to the legal definition of the term.
Nor the literal meaning, common understanding or any definition you arrive at using common sense.
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On August 01 2014 21:10 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas. No, it doesn't qualify as a genocide according to the legal definition of the term.
Yeah, a genocide aims towards the extinction of a particular ethnic group or nation. Bigger civil losses in a war area and even the (partially) tolerated killings of citizens doesn't qualify as a genocide, that's still a few scales below.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 01 2014 20:59 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:46 zatic wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) People like to exaggerate. There is no genocide going on. Its disingenuous to say the least. Rhetoric like that is no good for anyone. It just moves the debate away from reality, which is pointless.
Terribly nihilistic of you, dear 
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On August 01 2014 20:55 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas. Exactly, which is why I don't understand.To me it just seems like a terrible side effect to this terrible war. I don't think it's Israel's intent to kill Civilians, it just happens with how this war is being fought, so I don't see why everyone is calling Obama a murder and hearing people say what Israel is doing is just as bad as what hitler did but I don't think the deliberate intent to tkill civilians for their race/religion is there, it just happens when there's thousands of missiles hitting a small strip of land and they don't have the Highest missile defense technology like Israel but that's just my opinion and there's a lot more people with a better understanding of this conflict and previous ones dating back decades.
Open letter from a Western medical journal on Gaza
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/gaza-genocide-impunity-2014726165648879608.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/how-many-palestinians-been-kil-2014726131843576945.html
I don't cite these links because I want you to view them as independent sources, but to clarify why from one perspective, people are calling genocide.
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On August 01 2014 21:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:59 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 01 2014 20:46 zatic wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) People like to exaggerate. There is no genocide going on. Its disingenuous to say the least. Rhetoric like that is no good for anyone. It just moves the debate away from reality, which is pointless. Terribly nihilistic of you, dear
We believe in nothing!
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Swedish media reports Israeli soldier captured in Gaza. Both sides seem to confirm.
If it's true excrement is in the atmosphere heading towards rotating object, and it's going to impact very soon.
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On August 01 2014 20:55 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 20:46 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 01 2014 20:40 TommyP wrote:
Can someone explain to me why people claim that a genocide of Palestinians is happening? Is it just the civilian death toll in Gaza? Why would Hamas end the ceasefire if there was a "genocide" of their people happening (and when it sounds like they're getting dominated by Israel.) Well, a genocide is a deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. What is currently happening definitely qualifies as a genocide. In fact, so does every war, once it takes place in more densely populated areas. Exactly, which is why I don't understand.To me it just seems like a terrible side effect to this terrible war. I don't think it's Israel's intent to kill Civilians, it just happens with how this war is being fought, so I don't see why everyone is calling Obama a murder and hearing people say what Israel is doing is just as bad as what hitler did but I don't think the deliberate intent to tkill civilians for their race/religion is there, it just happens when there's thousands of missiles hitting a small strip of land and they don't have the Highest missile defense technology like Israel but that's just my opinion and there's a lot more people with a better understanding of this conflict and previous ones dating back decades.
I don't want to believe that Israel is killing civilians on purpose either, but it is hard to believe after Israel attacked a UN run all-girls school, killing 15 civilians who thought they were safe.
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I wonder what is with the media attention on a captured soldier. Plenty of Isreali soldiers and Palestinan civilians have been killed, and plenty of Palestinians have been captured themselves. What is so special about this one particular soldier? Is he the son of an influential politician?
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No a genocide is the systematic and programmed eradication of a group of people. What is happening in gaza is not systematic, it is a programmed killing of civilians on order to create terror and obedience.
On August 01 2014 22:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I wonder what is with the media attention on a captured soldier. Plenty of Isreali soldiers and Palestinan civilians have been killed, and plenty of Palestinians have been captured themselves. What is so special about this one particular soldier? Is he the son of an influential politician?
Last soldier they kidnapped, Hamas wanted to exchange 1 000 prisonners against this one soldier and it succeed. It is a really good bargaining chip for Hamas because the israeli army is a reservist army, full of young people, and very followed/supported by israeli civilians.
Look Gilad Shalit and all the mess they did about him.
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yeah, Israel should really stop making such good trades for its soldiers when they're captured. The whole point of not negotiating with terrorists is so it's not worthwhile for them to do their criminal acts.
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So the Hamas kidnapped a soldier during the ceasefire and Isreal now declares the ceasefire for over to search for the soldier in Gaza. Great stuff...
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On August 01 2014 22:28 Big J wrote:
So the Hamas kidnapped a soldier during the ceasefire and Isreal now declares the ceasefire for over to search for the soldier in Gaza. Great stuff...
The cease fire was also kinda imbalanced, since the Israeli kept 40 % of gaza and kept destroying tunnels. It's a "we keep doing our stuff you don't" cease fire type.
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That's ironic considering the effects of Zionis terrorism on formation of Isreal. Negotiating with terrorists is the one thing that has been shown to succeed in peace as long as both sides are interested in peace. Look at Northern Ireland.
However Isreali politicians don't seem interested in peace, and securing the narrative of low Isreali casualties is part of that. They cannot help but to trade if the wish to maintain public support. They can always go ahead and assassinate and "detain" the former prisoners later, like they have been doing anyways.
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Soldier is not kidnapped, soldiers are captured. Hamas captured a soldier stupid move to end the truce but not surprising given that Israel didn't really leave Gaza.
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On August 01 2014 22:28 Big J wrote:
So the Hamas kidnapped a soldier during the ceasefire and Isreal now declares the ceasefire for over to search for the soldier in Gaza. Great stuff...
The ceasefire lasted only for hours. Also you don't kidnap a soldier, you kidnap civilians. Soldiers are prisoners of war.
Lerner (IDF spokesman) said the soldier went missing during a battle with fighters who emerged from a concealed tunnel, one of whom blew himself up with an explosives belt.
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On August 01 2014 22:32 EtherealBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 22:28 Big J wrote:
So the Hamas kidnapped a soldier during the ceasefire and Isreal now declares the ceasefire for over to search for the soldier in Gaza. Great stuff... The ceasefire lasted only for hours. Also you don't kidnap a soldier, you kidnap civilians. Soldiers are prisoners of war. Show nested quote +Lerner (IDF spokesman) said the soldier went missing during a battle with fighters who emerged from a concealed tunnel, one of whom blew himself up with an explosives belt.
Don't know, the (German and Austrian) media puts it as kidnapping.
Kind of makes sense, since the Hamas aren't a military organisation, so they cannot take prisoners of war, right?
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EPT
