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On October 25 2013 07:11 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 07:28 obesechicken13 wrote:I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him. In my freshmen year of college and for a few years in high school I played a lot of games. There was a huge part of me that didn't really want to but other parts rationalized it. And once I got started I didn't stop for hours on end. My life suffered quite a bit. I went to counselors at school and talked on Olganon and tried 50+ time management tricks and tools. And then I met a girl that I liked in second year. I stopped playing almost cold turkey after that. More of that in one of my blogs. Since then I've realized that being a gamer is who I am. I've had some problem days but it's never gotten so bad that I've found myself gaming till 5am on a school night again. I think I can say it's gotten better every year. In the end you have to be ok with what you do. There are definitely pro gamers who play games all day and they are happy with their lifestyle and they make enough money for now. Perhaps that will change for them in the future or perhaps they'll make enough they can retire. They'll deal with the future when they get to it, but for now they're happy with spending more time than I did on games. It sounds like his advice and the advice of your counsellors just didn't really work out for you, but I'd be hesitant to assume that that means that all advice given to you during that time was bad advice. Unfortunately we can't all get that magic bullet of a positive relationship that you seem to have found. That being said, the bit about gamer being a part of your (or my) identity is spot on. I've found myself caught in that paradox a few times now where I want to do other things to find myself but then realize that when I am my most genuine is when I'm involved in gaming.
I believe that my counselors gave decent advice but they didn't really care about me outside of the hourly meeting every 2 weeks or they didn't have the time to care. In addition they didn't really know what game addiction was like. They'd never experienced it so it was hard for them to understand the problem.
Olganon was a great community but again, it was impersonal. And although we were facing the same problems, we were at different points in life. Most of them were much older.
Most people do have positive relationships already. It's just horrendously embarrassing to ask for help. And if I did have a magic bullet, its effects didn't last. I still struggle at times with my life. I still struggle mostly with grades, but not as badly as I used to. And I still do struggle with falling asleep at the right time. And I struggle with finding people to talk to outside of work and finding work and fear of being fired from work. Everything is a part of growing up. But life does get better.
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@ Najda - Thanks for the comments. Defintiely not as much depth as I would like. I’m hoping to write a book shortly on the subject to expand more on the insights I’ve found from so many amazing discussions with people who struggle with this.
It’s been fascinating to see the response from the original article and now the talk. Regarding activities: I go into it a bit more in depth in the blog post but it’s in the comments that you’ll find a lot more of that information. I would recommend starting near the bottom of the comments to see the latest. My replies are marked so it shouldn’t be too difficult.
Like I said in my first post on this thread, one of the interesting insights I’ve found is that many people who get wrapped up in this are people who have actually never had other hobbies, because they began gaming very early and that’s always been their go-to. At least that was the case with me in particular.
I’m hoping to release an article soon with 50+ ideas for activities to try, and a good process for enjoying them while detoxing from games, because another part of the difficulty is that the type of stimulation you get from games is different than other activities so it takes a period of detox to realign.
@ 75 - Haha definitely!
@ radscorpion9 - Thanks for your comments. Yes exactly! That’s the main point I was trying to make. We get so wrapped up in games being good or bad, or whether it’s an addiction or not when that just confuses the conversation and misses the point of actually helping people who WANT help. I hope my talk can shift that conversation, in the very least a slight amount.
@ Azza - Finding a sense of direction can be difficult. I would only encourage you to continue this pursuit and not to give on trying to find it. Sometimes it just takes more time than you would like, but focusing on finding that purpose is worth it! I’ve also heard from many people that teaching English in foreign countries has been a great way of finding that sense of purpose!
@ rd & noobskills- Yes thank you for clarifying.
@ RezJ - This would be accurate yes. If you watch the tedx talk on porn addiction you can learn more about this!
@ freewareplayer - Yes this is correct. It’s why the main point of the discussion I’m trying to create is that it’s not even about the games, it’s about what you get out of the games, and by understanding that you can unlock the power to move on from games… by identifying and ultimately overcoming the underlying reasons why you are playing in the first place.
@ wUndertUnge - I’ve heard great things of those videos. Thank you for sharing.
@ obesechicken13 - I do plan on doing an AMA on reddit to further this discussion. I’m currently traveling around Europe so that is a bit difficult in present time.
It’s definitely not my place to tell someone to stop if they don’t want to. I’m merely trying to empower people to stop if they have a desire to. Unfortunately, prior to my article - at least to the best of my knowledge - the advice out there at the time on how to quit was poor and didn’t serve people. It didn’t help them, even though they were searching for the answer!
All I’m trying to do is give people a framework to think about the problem and practical tools to help. It’s completely up to them whether they want to quit or not. I’m also unclear what your point was about the friends. In my article one of the key points is to encourage people to go out and make new friends, because many times the friends gamers have are gamers and if they’re trying to move on from games that will make it more difficult. Thanks for your input!
@ VayneAuthority - I certainly agree that it’s not a matter of video games being better or worse than other hobbies. I fundamentally disagree that looking at the problem from the perspective of nobody does anything better than game/tv/etc. I strongly believe in empowering people to pursue the passions they have and not to settle for laying around all day doing nothing.
Of course, this is ultimately each individual’s choice and if someone wants to just watch TV all day, that’s their perogative.
Also, 97% of kids 2-17 play video games and the trend is risiing quickly (17% increase in kids aged 2-5 in the last 2 years), so I do believe it would be easy to argue that in the future the number of people who play video games vs. watch tv, etc will be very high on the video games side. Just food for thought.
One of my main points is that with how early we are beginning to play games (think 2 years old), we aren't even given a chance to learn about other hobbies or passions anymore. It's not like that 2 year old is making the choice to game, it's their parents. Not to mention the issues with always being given entertainment instead of interaction and how that affects someone's long-term social growth. Anyways, happy to have the discussion, thanks for your input.
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Wow, the man himself.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to our fellow resident TLer's!
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@ riotjune - No problem! I'm just excited this discussion is moving forward. It's always great to connect with actual gamers themselves, because it's us as a community who need to shape the conversation moving forward.
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I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar.
Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
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It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring 
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On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote:
I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar.
Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything.
On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote:It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring
Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out:
- sky diving
- driving a tank
- coral diving
- learn how to shave with a straight razor
- brew my own beer
and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv.
Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention.
Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right? Isn't a good, carefree job the only thing that allows you to play video games in your remaining time?
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On October 27 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote:
I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar.
Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing. I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything. Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote:It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out: - sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv. Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right?
thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here.
sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving
Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea...
coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater
learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while 
brew my own beer - don't like beer haha
So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste.
I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that.
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not bad. the ending was pretty cheesed up imo though "you have permission to stop" (my permission) lel
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Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
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On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote:
Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
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On October 27 2013 01:44 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote:
I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar.
Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing. I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything. On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote:It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out: - sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv. Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right? thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here. sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea... coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while brew my own beer - don't like beer haha So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste. I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that.
I'm not trying to tell anybody what he/she should do. But I do find it hard to believe that somebody finds nothing non-videogame related interesting (whether he/she wants to do it is a totally different story).
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On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote:
Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control. If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
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Wow! It's amazing that the speaker is posting on TL, what an honor. Great video, it made me think a lot, and true to video gamer nature, a 6 minute talk is perfect for our short attention spans : P
I was going to ask a question but you covered most of it in your bigger response. Keep up the good work, I really like the idea of compassion over judgement : ]
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This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead.
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On October 27 2013 03:05 willoc wrote:
This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead.
I too was left a little disappointed with the lack of substantial practical advice.
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On October 27 2013 03:10 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 03:05 willoc wrote:
This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead. I too was left a little disappointed with the lack of substantial practical advice.
I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my original statement. What mishimaBeef said is how I felt.
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I used to play a ton of video games, mainly for the first reason stated in the video: temporary escapism. I went through a pretty terrible period a couple of years ago and instead of facing the problems I chose to run away from them. Nowadays I got my problems sorted out and I find myself playing a lot less video games. My interests also evolved a lot throughout the years, though, which is by no means a small factor.
The other reason I don't spend nearly as much time playing video games as I used to is the feeling of "been there, done that." I've been playing video games on and off since I was 6 (which is 18 years ago) and to be honest, a shooter is and has always been a shooter: you have guns and you shoot stuff. You can only do that for so long until it gets boring. The same with RTS. The only thing that improved incredibly the past 15 years is graphical fidelity. Apart from that we are still gathering resources and training units from production buildings, just like we did in the time of Brood War and Age of Empires.
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On October 27 2013 02:30 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 01:44 VayneAuthority wrote:On October 27 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote:
I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar.
Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing. I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything. On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote:It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out: - sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv. Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right? thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here. sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea... coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while brew my own beer - don't like beer haha So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste. I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that. I'm not trying to tell anybody what he/she should do. But I do find it hard to believe that somebody finds nothing non-videogame related interesting (whether he/she wants to do it is a totally different story).
Because you are defining life by it's exceptions, not by it's norms. The norm of life is: wake up, shower, eat, go to work, come home, run errands, relax a couple hours, go to bed, rinse and repeat. Day after day for decades. That's life. Driving a tank (wtf?) is not life, unless you are military in which case your life is even shittier than what I just mentioned.
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On October 27 2013 03:57 maartendq wrote:
I used to play a ton of video games, mainly for the first reason stated in the video: temporary escapism. I went through a pretty terrible period a couple of years ago and instead of facing the problems I chose to run away from them. Nowadays I got my problems sorted out and I find myself playing a lot less video games. My interests also evolved a lot throughout the years, though, which is by no means a small factor.
The other reason I don't spend nearly as much time playing video games as I used to is the feeling of "been there, done that." I've been playing video games on and off since I was 6 (which is 18 years ago) and to be honest, a shooter is and has always been a shooter: you have guns and you shoot stuff. You can only do that for so long until it gets boring. The same with RTS. The only thing that improved incredibly the past 15 years is graphical fidelity. Apart from that we are still gathering resources and training units from production buildings, just like we did in the time of Brood War and Age of Empires.
I think you're probably right, but thanks to Kickstarter we're starting to see very niche games (and experimental games) coming out that keep things fresh. Games like Underrail are throwbacks to classics like Fallout 2 which I thoroughly enjoyed playing the Alpha of, even if its graphics are relatively low-end. Its probably more of an exception at this point, as most games really are just repetitions of things that have already been done and you can get tired, especially when there's so much out in the world to see and explore. On the other hand from Thomas Sowell's point, most people really don't have an opportunity to see these things. Whether its the daily grind where you have not much time left over except weekends and holidays, or perhaps you're just unlucky enough to be born into the slums or in some impoverished nation where its non-stop back breaking work for low wages...I feel like video games are really one of the few points of positive escapism in the world. At that point video games are the only source of positive light for some people.
But anyway its important not to confuse things. Certain people do need help in first world countries, and at the very least the video does help in illuminating an important issue (much like how Occupy Wall Street didn't actually propose any solutions and was pretty confused as a protest, but it did highlight an important issue that evolved into various concerns taken up by other people).
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EPT
