I just watched this TedEx Talk on video game addiction:
It's pretty awesome because the speaker doesn't actually want to change your beliefs about video games, he's just a guy that was playing too much of them.
One of the bits that really hit home for me was the four reasons people play video games that he cites at 3:20. I think he nailed it, thinking back on when I started playing video games too much.
I'm not sure if I have a problem with video game addiction anymore, but there certainly was a time in my life where that was the case.
I also think that addressing the issue of how much time small children spend with ipads is important. A buddy of mine has kids and one of them is eight years old and can't read but is on his mom's iPad all the time... It's crazy how much screen time little kids get these days (heh, not that us adults are much better).
Anyways, just wanted to share that in case anyone's interested.
I felt that even though his message was fairly clear, the way he spoke seemed to say that video games are bad and the goal is to "stop playing video games". If you stop one addiction completely, you'll just fill it with another. After I quit WoW, I found I had so much more time on my hands. Soon afterwards I replaced that time with Skyrim. A better focus would be to learn how to do it in moderation.
It also doesn't help that there are a lot of games with a progression system that reward players the more time they play. It makes people play a lot more then they would normally play because they are focused on the next tier level or reward as their goal. It also distracts from normal daily activities which, to the gamer, could be spent on working toward the reward.
A lot of games also have a lot of randomness involved, turning the game into a more sophisticated form of gambling. I experienced this with Diablo 2 in high school. Then I downloaded a bot to do all the work for me (there is a joy of seeing a rare item drop after you kill a boss, just as there is a joy when the slot machines pay out). Same thing with finding a shiny in Pokemon.
It was interesting to hear his story, although I am curious about what video games he was addicted to. WoW? Call of Duty?
It's actually similar, if not the same thing. "Addiction" just has a more negative connotation/stigma associated with it, which may lead to people refusing to acknowledge it's a problem in the first place, thus preventing them from getting help/tx.
Something worthy of note for anyone doubting the existence of video game addiction: some psychological disorders are almost nonexistent in certain cultures yet very common in others. Some are even entirely culture-specific. For at least a few countries, video game addiction is a large enough problem to warrant direct government intervention, tons of research into the disorder and extensive therapy for sufferers. It's a real thing, even if you haven't seen it yet.
On October 24 2013 03:38 Leopoldshark wrote: I felt that even though his message was fairly clear, the way he spoke seemed to say that video games are bad and the goal is to "stop playing video games". If you stop one addiction completely, you'll just fill it with another. After I quit WoW, I found I had so much more time on my hands. Soon afterwards I replaced that time with Skyrim. A better focus would be to learn how to do it in moderation.
It also doesn't help that there are a lot of games with a progression system that reward players the more time they play. It makes people play a lot more then they would normally play because they are focused on the next tier level or reward as their goal. It also distracts from normal daily activities which, to the gamer, could be spent on working toward the reward.
A lot of games also have a lot of randomness involved, turning the game into a more sophisticated form of gambling. I experienced this with Diablo 2 in high school. Then I downloaded a bot to do all the work for me (there is a joy of seeing a rare item drop after you kill a boss, just as there is a joy when the slot machines pay out). Same thing with finding a shiny in Pokemon.
It was interesting to hear his story, although I am curious about what video games he was addicted to. WoW? Call of Duty?
It was CoD and Starcraft according to his blog. (Actually that's how I ended up watching the Ted talk).
On October 24 2013 03:38 Leopoldshark wrote: I felt that even though his message was fairly clear, the way he spoke seemed to say that video games are bad and the goal is to "stop playing video games". If you stop one addiction completely, you'll just fill it with another. After I quit WoW, I found I had so much more time on my hands. Soon afterwards I replaced that time with Skyrim. A better focus would be to learn how to do it in moderation.
That's pretty much the impression I got as well. Seemed to me like he was saying that if you're playing video games you're addicted to them and should stop playing completely. I'm glad he mentioned that playing in moderation is fine, but the rest of his talk seems to have overshadowed that.
The reasons he covered for being addicted certainly resonated with me a bit though. I spent several years not really sure what I wanted to do with my life, working in a crappy job with pretty much all my friends being online. Spent most of that time outside work playing WoW pretty heavily, now that I know what I want to do with my life and have/am working towards a job I enjoy, I don't feel the need to play as much. Looking back, I'd also say playing WoW as much as I did helped me avoid becoming depressed.
Video game addiction does not exist simply be cause video games is not a single thing to be addicted to. Is it the social aspect? Sense of accomplishment? The actual gameplay? The need to collect stuff? Etc. I have interviewed psychologists that treat people with video game problems and that is what they say for one.
Problem with video games is they are fucking great value for money, really easy to do (no need to travel, drive etc.) and more fun than a lot of other things out there.
Think about it: you could go to a random club, have some crappy drinks (mark up baby), maybe get drunk or stay in, buy some proper drinks (premium spirits and craft beer woop woop) and go shoot shit up on a space station etc.
It's a ridiculously good way to escape from the doldrums of most places.
I have met so many people that work so hard for their job/school and struggle to face each day because they hate it. No thx.
On October 24 2013 03:19 riotjune wrote: I prefer the term "problematic use."
On October 24 2013 03:29 Godwrath wrote: Or just "growing up".
so you guys say that people can't actually be addicted to video games?
That's what I would say, yes. Excessive use of video games is a symptom, not a cause.
I liked the part of the video where the guy decided to be practical instead of fucking around with semantics and said it doesn't matter if you want to call it "excessive use of video games" or "video game addiction" or "Yolo McMasterBomb". What matters is that people are in this situation and it hurts them.
You could argue that it makes a difference for whatever clinical treatments psychologists have made up so that they can sell their "expertise" to dumbfounded parents, but I don't think that's us here.
We've managed to start a discussion about terminology when the speaker specifically tried to avoid that discussion by tackling the practical problem from a practical standpoint. Don't rush back to the Greek roots of such and such words when it detracts from the actual issues that the actual people are actually having.
Strangely I feel I have more a computer/internet addiction than video games. This last year, I have procrastinated so much on my master degree that I feel bad about it, especially since I'm near the end but should have finished 1year ago (still gave some courses at the university, so it wasn't totally unproductive).
But when I look at what I do with my days these last few months it's consisting of: playing some games, watching forums, watching some youtube videos, reading a book, house cleaning, reading some wikipedia (depending on what I read earlier), eating with gf, spending some hours with gf, watching a film or one series episode. On the other hand, I also had 2 exams for my profession in the year and I had to spend a month for each studying 6-7h a day. Had no problem with it since... I really had no choice and the goal was simple: read a book, do 30 exercises a day, for a month, pass the exam.
So, for me video game in themselves aren't the issue since I spend maybe 3 hours on average. But is entertainment a problem and keeping me away from important stuff. Yeah kinda... but damn does writing that memoir sucks.
But all in all I feel I must first fix another problem, my sleep pattern. I really have to find a way to sleep/wake at ordinary hours when I have no obligation, have so much trouble waking up it's terrible, I hear alarm, push snooze, fall asleep in 5s only to wake again 3hours later.
I agree a lot with OP. Especially with the 4 reasons. When I was super addicted to video games I can directly relate to all of those feelings. ESP 2-4.
I wonder though how much video game activity is ok. Because isn't it all a waste a time in the long run anyway?
Like some games I definitely just wasted countless hours playing. Starcraft I wasted a lot of time but it also led me to poker which led me to going places I never went before and meeting people I've never met. So I don't reall regret that at least.
I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him.
In my freshmen year of college and for a few years in high school I played a lot of games. There was a huge part of me that didn't really want to but other parts rationalized it. And once I got started I didn't stop for hours on end. My life suffered quite a bit. I went to counselors at school and talked on Olganon and tried 50+ time management tricks and tools. And then I met a girl that I liked in second year. I stopped playing almost cold turkey after that. More of that in one of my blogs.
Since then I've realized that being a gamer is who I am. I've had some problem days but it's never gotten so bad that I've found myself gaming till 5am on a school night again. I think I can say it's gotten better every year.
In the end you have to be ok with what you do. There are definitely pro gamers who play games all day and they are happy with their lifestyle and they make enough money for now. Perhaps that will change for them in the future or perhaps they'll make enough they can retire. They'll deal with the future when they get to it, but for now they're happy with spending more time than I did on games.
On October 24 2013 07:26 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: I wonder though how much video game activity is ok.
As much as you can without it eating into other activities you want/need to do.
Because isn't it all a waste a time in the long run anyway?
Time you enjoyed wasting isn't wasted time.
We've managed to start a discussion about terminology when the speaker specifically tried to avoid that discussion by tackling the practical problem from a practical standpoint. Don't rush back to the Greek roots of such and such words when it detracts from the actual issues that the actual people are actually having.
The thing is that talking about video game addiction is detracting from the actual issues. You get 'addicted' to video games because you are lonely and have no friends, because you are bullied and do not like going out, because you have social anxiety, you are depressed, have no motivation, etc. Those underlying problems should be addressed, trying to quit video games is useless as fuck because the void that they filled up will still be there.
On October 24 2013 06:57 MoonfireSpam wrote: Problem with video games is they are fucking great value for money, really easy to do (no need to travel, drive etc.) and more fun than a lot of other things out there.
Think about it: you could go to a random club, have some crappy drinks (mark up baby), maybe get drunk or stay in, buy some proper drinks (premium spirits and craft beer woop woop) and go shoot shit up on a space station etc.
It's a ridiculously good way to escape from the doldrums of most places.
I have met so many people that work so hard for their job/school and struggle to face each day because they hate it. No thx.
People struggling for their job/school who hate it are in the wrong career. Unfortunately it's really hard finding the perfect career path to pursue that you enjoy. But it's really easy to find games that you enjoy too. That doesn't mean working hard can't be fulfilling.
Ive posted about this before and was the basis of my software programming and engineering degree, its a really interesting thing to look into but for me i concluded its a load of old bollocks and its something in the end you grow out of. just hear me out if you can be arsed
most of us in here are hard core gamers, you cant get addicted to video games . .you just really really REALLY like to play them. Take video games away from someone and nothing will happen, take any other addicting thing (being careful to not go onto drugs and the like here) and the body shuts down and people have died through the with draw. you cant get addicted to video games, the word needs replacing and i can almost guarantee video games can be replaced by something else where as this new thing becomes addicting.
eg, my life, i play games every single day, have done for over 27 years now, i feel im addicted to them and the gf and friends say i am, so, when i go for a holiday for 3 weeks and dont play a single one . . well nothing happened. Last month i joined the gym as i want to compete in a triathlon, i never played a game for a couple of weeks . . nothing happened to me, BUT when i smoked 60 cigs a day i simply couldnt quit for years, when i finally overcame it the transformation my body went through hurt and the craving i went through and stupid shit i did to stop just not going for a cig, i think back now was just plain ridiculous and i feel a fool . . but i couldnt believe what my mind and body was doing to me . . . it was something you cant imagine if youve never been addicted. no you cant get addicted to video games you just really Really REALLY like playing them and dont really want to stop. Addiction to me became to mean something the body thinks it simply cant live without, games im afraid could be replaced by anything. I told you to give up games and you could be an f1 driver (insert thing you really really want to be here) and wallah . . .you just stopped with no side affects or withdraw
On October 24 2013 06:57 MoonfireSpam wrote: Problem with video games is they are fucking great value for money, really easy to do (no need to travel, drive etc.) and more fun than a lot of other things out there.
Think about it: you could go to a random club, have some crappy drinks (mark up baby), maybe get drunk or stay in, buy some proper drinks (premium spirits and craft beer woop woop) and go shoot shit up on a space station etc.
It's a ridiculously good way to escape from the doldrums of most places.
I have met so many people that work so hard for their job/school and struggle to face each day because they hate it. No thx.
Spot on. This is why I play. Cheap entertainment in the comfort of my own home. Throw in a few beers, and you have a great night/weekend.
EDIT: I won't deny that the good "night" has occasionally turned into a whole week bender though.... sad but true. Does that count as addiction?
I think if you have a small idle segment of life you can just be consumed in to video games. There was a phase where I had no hobby, passion or dream and I just put every moment of enthusiasm, happiness or want right in to video games.
Also there is a small phenomenon with video games. They came up rather quick and recent in history and its one of those things that are extremely interesting and major, yet they just casual became part of life and casually became one of the biggest industries.
All the obvious things about video games are all the things that need to be looked at with a little more respect, fear, w/e.
They're entertainment value is just absolutely insane, it's a new world and art that's growing rapidly.
Also they're kinda of an extension of sports and playfulness.
People love to play, whether it's real sports, small sports, games they make, board games, outside activities, small quirky ways of playing with one another at any age. Video games are a new extension of that global trait in humans.
Oh, i would totally want to discuss about how oversaturated we are nowadays with accessible entertainement options, so younger people can get distracted really easilly from more important matters.
On October 24 2013 07:26 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: I wonder though how much video game activity is ok. Because isn't it all a waste a time in the long run anyway? .
exactly. Unless if the said hobby gets you girls / money. Then it's thought of as a "passion." It's all a load of labeling nonsense
Do I have book addiction. I often find myself more likely to stay up all night reading a book in one sitting then playing a game..maybe I just haven't found a game more compelling then my imagination? Or I am just the oddity.. *shrug* I dunno I am not too worried about these kinds of things, I am sure they are important in some grand scale and yeah I am sure people have taken some things too far in there personal habbits but what else is new? People have been screwing there lives up over too much booze,drugs, entertainment,debauchery etc for as long as man has had the ability to do something besides sleep and work.
video games are a double edged sword. Momentary fun but you are hurting yourself in the long run. I invested alot of time into video games, and I regret some of it because in the end I could have developed more as a person doing other things. I don't really play online stuff too much anymore, and found that happy balance but wish I could have done that years ago. Although getting GM was the only thing that made it worth it for me.
It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
He implied multiple times videogames are bad and that's the message he was trying to convey in the whole thing.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
Pretty much this, thankfully there's a stronger push for them in the classroom than against from what I've seen. I'm actually doing my thesis right now on Minecraft in education (when I'm not procrastinating by playing games).
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
His blog post is a guide to quit playing video games forever.
He does state it's only for people who want to quit forever though.
My problem with a lot of Ted talks is how everyone is so accepting of whatever the speaker says. The applause from your peers serves to make you want to fit in so you agree with them. It almost feels like a brainwashing session. I know that attending Ted talks is voluntary, but then again so is joining a cult.
Ted isn't a cult. But I just can't shake the feeling. I feel like the people who enjoy Ted, while not "weak", had a childhood where they were bullied or at least weren't popular and had to find solace in being smart or at least different. They like hearing about research and discussing ideas. They like to think they work to improve the world and that money isn't their primary incentive.
The more you watch Ted, the less you're able to disagree wtih Ted because your beliefs are changed by the things that you hear regardless of whether you agree with them.
If this were a Starcraft Ted talk, you'd hear how bogus what he's saying really is. The speaker is not preaching divine truth. He's trying to turn a profit. Addiction is a serious illness and you don't beat it by picking up a guitar and saying "I'll just play guitar from now on instead of gaming" like he did in his blog. You need outside help.
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
Sure, but i think that was just because you had nothing better or more fun to do. Imagine you go on vacation (beach,drinks, girls, whatever you consider fun and desirable) for 6 months. I am sure you would not think about gaming a single day.
He seems to be a good speaker, and surely touches on some important aspects. However, for most of us, video games are not a problem to be overcome, and learning "how to stop playing forever" is not on our agenda. In the way he is presenting, I can't help but feeling discriminated against: I play around 10 hours of video gamesStarcraft a week, which is a perfectly fine hobby and certainly not a problem to be overcome.
Even accepting the general tone for a moment, I must admitt that most of his points are pretty trivial.
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments! I’m the speaker and I’m happy to answer any questions and contribute to the dialogue here.
Thanks to the OP for posting the video!
I guess off the top I want to clarify two positions:
1. I’m definitely not against gaming. I think too often the conversation revolves around whether games are good or bad, which really is a pointless debate since it’s all relative. For me it’s merely about helping those who WANT to quit but DON’T KNOW HOW. In my experience, there is a rather large community of these people. I really just want to help.
I think because the conversation nowadays is focused on games being good or bad it actually hurts you guys who ARE ABLE to play in a way that doesn’t negatively impact the rest of your life. I’d love to have an impact on changing that conversation so you guys can play without people being on your back all the time.
2. I’m not a fan of the word addiction. Unfortunately within main stream society that word gets a lot more attention, so the talk ended up revolving around that. On the technical side of whether video games can be addicting or not, the bible of addictions, the DSM-5 recently came out with a special note to do more research on internet gaming addiction, so although it’s not technically a diagnosable addiction, in the next few years it will be. I’m certain of it. Also again, I don’t like the fact that someone will be “diagnosed” and at the end of my speech you hear me talk about that. Again, don’t really care for the addiction word, just want to help people who want help.
@ Leopoldshark - Replacement behavior is definitely something that occurs when you quit an addiction. The argument would be that you can replace it with something more in line with a healthy lifestyle - since the reason you would be quitting the addiction of video games is because it’s negatively impacting your life. For example, I ended up quitting games and instead went out 7 nights a week for 3 years working on my social skills. This wasn’t necessarily the healthiest alternative, but that propelled me into many other things I do now such as DJing (huge passion of mine) and entrepreneurship. When I first quit gaming it essentially took me around 3 years to get to a place of being able to balance out my life. Moderation is achievable but I do believe it’s easy to view it as a more logical sequence, when the motivation to play games is an emotional response. It’s not that moderation isn’t achievable, it’s that the process to get there is rarely as simple as it appears. In many addictions, a relative period of detox is necessary before coming BACK to the activity in a more moderate way.
The progression system is one of the big elements for sure. It’s a very addicting process. The perfect example of it is a web game called cookie clicker. That’s one of the main elements of the game and it’s hugely addictive for a period of time. I played SC, CS 1.6, WoW and Dota mainly, and then CoD. Thanks for your input!
@ AutomatronOmega - I definitely think you can be addicted to pot.
@ Soan - The talk was 6 minutes so it was very difficult to address all the key points in-depth. I was trying to make key points known (moderation is fine as an example) while trying to address everything else as well (how to stop for players, how to stop for parents, the scale of the problem, my own story, etc). One of the main points of the whole talk was that this was for people who wanted to stop. If you want to stop and you continue to play, yes games are bad. But if you don’t want to stop, who am I to say you shouldn’t game?
@ Djzapz - Thank you for noticing this part of my speech. It was one of the key points I was trying to make so it’s great to hear it was noticed.
@ Entertaining - I think there are a lot of other activities to do… if you want to stop playing games. One of the patterns I’ve noticed is that with how young people start playing games nowadays they’ve actually rarely even tried to develop other hobbies growing up, so many many many people that feel like there’s nothing better to do have yet to experience anything else. Just an observation.
@ rezoacken - Thanks for sharing. I would look even deeper behind the sleep pattern. There’s a difference between having an obligation to get up and having a purpose for getting up. Having an obligation is living life as it happens to you, having a purpose for getting up is living your life on your own terms.
@ [GiTM]-Ace - Thanks for commenting. Thorakh nailed it with his response!
@ obesechicken13 - Thanks for sharing the article link, it’s still amazing to see the comments on that article each day. I definitely obviously disagree that I’m one of those life motivators who are scamming people out of money. I understand it’s likely that you’ve had a negative experience towards that, which is unfortunate, but although there are a lot of bad people in the world scamming people, I’m not one of them. I certainly would not have responded to every comment on that article (of which I get paid $0 for) if it were otherwise. I think part of the argument that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having fun and being happy. Many people who WANT TO STOP aren’t actually happy playing games, they’re miserable. They don’t WANT to continue playing games, so who are you to say they should continue?
@ Thorakh - Not sure if I agree that talking about the addiction is detracting from the issues, because creating this conversation allows the next question to happen: why are they addicted? which brings in the answers of being lonely, anxious, depressed, etc, of which you can now try to help instead of the contrast (no conversation) in which you don’t even get to the questions of how can you help someone with their social skills, because there’s no awareness that it’s even a problem.
@ StatixEx - I definitely understand a lot of your argument. I disagree that people grow out of it. Some do, certainly, but many don’t, and I’d rather not hope that people grow out of it. I’d rather be proactive in helping them if they want help to move on from games. Also, you won’t die from quitting games, but it can have other negative side affects similar to other addictions such as irratibillity, etc.
@ ayaz2810 - It all comes down to whether that’s the life you want to live or not, which is 100% your choice to make. If it is, that’s awesome and I’m stoked for you, if not, happy to help!
@ KT_Perry - Definitely can be a phase, I agree! The stimulation side of the equation is very important to understand. The type of stimulation you have in games is very different than real-life interactions which is one of the reasons why it can feel like everything else is so boring!
@ Parnage - I think you’re fine.
@ Biology]major - I agree.
@ NIJ - Yes, gambling has many of the same characteristics. I like your example of some people being ok with it and some not.
@ aTnClouD - Haha thanks for your comment dude. It can be good for some of course. The point is: for people who WANT to stop, they deserve to have help with it. If you want to play, play. Let’s get over the whole, “are games good or bad” debate. THAT is what’s pointless.
@ obesechicken13 - I do state that clearly in my article. I’m not sure if I did in the TEDx talk but one of the reasons was because I was speaking to a crowd of parents and non-gamers, so I had to keep the talk relevant to them. I wwanted to talk about the scale of the problem, not merely about how to quit. Also, TEDx is free, so turning a profit isn’t really that relevant. Take TEDxYouth for example, those kids have no career obligations for their speech.
@ Birdie - Thank you for continuing to remind everyone of the point of that talk!
@ Ricjames - Potentially, but I do remember a summer vacation I went on to Europe when I was younger that I was miserable on because I wanted to be home gaming.
@ C[h]ili - Thanks! I tried to do my best to actually help current gamers feel LESS discriminated against. That’s my pursuit anyways. Thanks for the feedback!
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
Sure, but i think that was just because you had nothing better or more fun to do. Imagine you go on vacation (beach,drinks, girls, whatever you consider fun and desirable) for 6 months. I am sure you would not think about gaming a single day.
I disagree, back when I played Runescape it was literally always on my mind. The nature of the game makes it so you have to grind a ridiculous amount of hours to get anything in the game, so I was always trying to spend as much time possible playing the game. Even while I was on vacation or doing some other activity that I truthfully enjoyed, I always felt guilty that I was losing hours that I could have put into the game instead. Luckily the developers made a bunch of changes that killed the game for me or else it would have taken me a lot longer to quit.
On October 24 2013 23:16 Colbert wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the comments! I’m the speaker and I’m happy to answer any questions and contribute to the dialogue here.
Thanks to the OP for posting the video!
Thanks for coming by, I enjoyed the ted talk. Obviously you couldn't go into much depth in a 6 minute talk but I think identifying the cause of the addiction in accordance to the 4 reasons you listed is only step one of overcoming the addiction, and it is a small step at that. The real challenge comes in starting from scratch while trying to find other activities outside of gaming that can fill in those slots. I've seen it mentioned you have a blog on the topic, do you go into this aspect more there, or would you be able to elaborate more here?
Wow this is amazing that the TED speaker dropped by our forums :D.
I thought it was a very nice, straightforward and reasonable talk. On the addiction point, I think its understandable to say that it doesn't matter that much as ultimately there's a problem either way that needs to be dealt with. But sometimes words can actually help people take notice of when something has grown into a particularly damaging problem, which is why I think not so long ago the American medical association have been calling for labelling obesity as a disease so that people take notice that its actually a very serious problem, particularly in countries like Korea where video games are very entrenched in their culture at a young age, and easily accessible.
I can't watch the video from China, but I was addicted to the competitive side of gaming in many different formats, over a number of years that I should have been focusing on study.
I also had no sense of direction on what I wanted to do with my life and everything hit a dead end.
In the end I just moved to China to help children learn English and I've not looked back. I'm happy to say I eventually found my way in life. I still replace gaming addiction with other addictions though.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
He implied multiple times videogames are bad and that's the message he was trying to convey in the whole thing.
He implied video games are bad for people who are addicted and aren't able to do anything else with their lives because of it. In fact he stated he wanted to avoid the conversation of whether or not games are bad in general, and just stick to the problem of addiction.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
He implied multiple times videogames are bad and that's the message he was trying to convey in the whole thing.
He implied video games are bad for people who are addicted and aren't able to do anything else with their lives because of it. In fact he stated he wanted to avoid the conversation of whether or not games are bad in general, and just stick to the problem of addiction.
Exactly. Also he very clearly pointed out that gaming to have fun in spare time is alright. It is when you ignore life's obligations such as sleep, work, social life, school work that is when it gets out of hand. He never said they in themselves were bad or spending time playing them is bad, but at which level you spend playing them could be bad.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think addiction has more to do with dopamine release than anything else.
Which basically means you can be addicted to a whooooole bunch of stuff. Doing something obsessively because it feels good usually means an addiction (but you only call it that if the activity in question is destructive).
Simply quitting whatever you are addicted to is never the answer (unless were talking serious physical addictions, then in soem cases yes).
If you dont fix what got you into that behaviour in the first place you didnt fix anything. Whether your the guy that only playes video games, or the guy that only talks about having quit video games, same shit different day.
Most cases "addicts" simply dont have to do anything in their life, or no idea what to, and "addictive" things always provide sure short term entertainment.
On October 24 2013 23:16 Colbert wrote: @ obesechicken13 - Thanks for sharing the article link, it’s still amazing to see the comments on that article each day. I definitely obviously disagree that I’m one of those life motivators who are scamming people out of money. I understand it’s likely that you’ve had a negative experience towards that, which is unfortunate, but although there are a lot of bad people in the world scamming people, I’m not one of them. I certainly would not have responded to every comment on that article (of which I get paid $0 for) if it were otherwise. I think part of the argument that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having fun and being happy. Many people who WANT TO STOP aren’t actually happy playing games, they’re miserable. They don’t WANT to continue playing games, so who are you to say they should continue?
@ obesechicken13 - I do state that clearly in my article. I’m not sure if I did in the TEDx talk but one of the reasons was because I was speaking to a crowd of parents and non-gamers, so I had to keep the talk relevant to them. I wwanted to talk about the scale of the problem, not merely about how to quit. Also, TEDx is free, so turning a profit isn’t really that relevant. Take TEDxYouth for example, those kids have no career obligations for their speech.
Speaker was right about one thing. We waste too much time and effort arguing about whether gaming addiction is real.
It was unexpected that he actually commented in this thread.
Why would I be missing that point on happiness? I clearly state that I've had my own problems with video game addiction. There are definitely those that are ok with how much they game and who do not feel they are messing up their lives for the forseeable future.
It's not my place to decide whether people should continue gaming. It's not yours either. Who are you to write contrary to all of the popular beliefs about addiction? When you join olganon, the video game addiction forums, one of their steps is to have friends help you out. (Step 7) and these steps are taken by people who have addictions to alcohol and other drugs. How does someone quit gaming when one aspect of their lives is suffering if they have motivation in that aspect of their life to motivate them to quit?
Where has your advice been proven empirically to actually work?
Your TEDx talk is fine since you're talking about scale but TED as a whole behaves like a cult. TL would be different if we were all told after every discussion to spread the word about the site "Ideas worth sharing" and honest criticism was immediately attacked or ignored, not argued.
How the hell does TED make money then?
People make AMAs on reddit to advertise their things. I found this on your blog.
Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
On October 25 2013 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
Well it has everything to do with video games when looking at the number of people who play video games vs other hobbies. It doesn't mean they're a waste of time or that they're bad, but it does mean that people are probably more likely to be addicted to video games than most other hobbies these days.
On October 25 2013 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
Well it has everything to do with video games when looking at the number of people who play video games vs other hobbies. It doesn't mean they're a waste of time or that they're bad, but it does mean that people are probably more likely to be addicted to video games than most other hobbies these days.
c'mon dude you really think more kids play video games then watch TV ? that 96% or whatever it was turns into 100%
On October 24 2013 07:28 obesechicken13 wrote: I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him.
In my freshmen year of college and for a few years in high school I played a lot of games. There was a huge part of me that didn't really want to but other parts rationalized it. And once I got started I didn't stop for hours on end. My life suffered quite a bit. I went to counselors at school and talked on Olganon and tried 50+ time management tricks and tools. And then I met a girl that I liked in second year. I stopped playing almost cold turkey after that. More of that in one of my blogs.
Since then I've realized that being a gamer is who I am. I've had some problem days but it's never gotten so bad that I've found myself gaming till 5am on a school night again. I think I can say it's gotten better every year.
In the end you have to be ok with what you do. There are definitely pro gamers who play games all day and they are happy with their lifestyle and they make enough money for now. Perhaps that will change for them in the future or perhaps they'll make enough they can retire. They'll deal with the future when they get to it, but for now they're happy with spending more time than I did on games.
It sounds like his advice and the advice of your counsellors just didn't really work out for you, but I'd be hesitant to assume that that means that all advice given to you during that time was bad advice. Unfortunately we can't all get that magic bullet of a positive relationship that you seem to have found.
That being said, the bit about gamer being a part of your (or my) identity is spot on. I've found myself caught in that paradox a few times now where I want to do other things to find myself but then realize that when I am my most genuine is when I'm involved in gaming.
On October 24 2013 07:28 obesechicken13 wrote: I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him.
In my freshmen year of college and for a few years in high school I played a lot of games. There was a huge part of me that didn't really want to but other parts rationalized it. And once I got started I didn't stop for hours on end. My life suffered quite a bit. I went to counselors at school and talked on Olganon and tried 50+ time management tricks and tools. And then I met a girl that I liked in second year. I stopped playing almost cold turkey after that. More of that in one of my blogs.
Since then I've realized that being a gamer is who I am. I've had some problem days but it's never gotten so bad that I've found myself gaming till 5am on a school night again. I think I can say it's gotten better every year.
In the end you have to be ok with what you do. There are definitely pro gamers who play games all day and they are happy with their lifestyle and they make enough money for now. Perhaps that will change for them in the future or perhaps they'll make enough they can retire. They'll deal with the future when they get to it, but for now they're happy with spending more time than I did on games.
It sounds like his advice and the advice of your counsellors just didn't really work out for you, but I'd be hesitant to assume that that means that all advice given to you during that time was bad advice. Unfortunately we can't all get that magic bullet of a positive relationship that you seem to have found.
That being said, the bit about gamer being a part of your (or my) identity is spot on. I've found myself caught in that paradox a few times now where I want to do other things to find myself but then realize that when I am my most genuine is when I'm involved in gaming.
I believe that my counselors gave decent advice but they didn't really care about me outside of the hourly meeting every 2 weeks or they didn't have the time to care. In addition they didn't really know what game addiction was like. They'd never experienced it so it was hard for them to understand the problem.
Olganon was a great community but again, it was impersonal. And although we were facing the same problems, we were at different points in life. Most of them were much older.
Most people do have positive relationships already. It's just horrendously embarrassing to ask for help. And if I did have a magic bullet, its effects didn't last. I still struggle at times with my life. I still struggle mostly with grades, but not as badly as I used to. And I still do struggle with falling asleep at the right time. And I struggle with finding people to talk to outside of work and finding work and fear of being fired from work. Everything is a part of growing up. But life does get better.
@ Najda - Thanks for the comments. Defintiely not as much depth as I would like. I’m hoping to write a book shortly on the subject to expand more on the insights I’ve found from so many amazing discussions with people who struggle with this.
It’s been fascinating to see the response from the original article and now the talk. Regarding activities: I go into it a bit more in depth in the blog post but it’s in the comments that you’ll find a lot more of that information. I would recommend starting near the bottom of the comments to see the latest. My replies are marked so it shouldn’t be too difficult.
Like I said in my first post on this thread, one of the interesting insights I’ve found is that many people who get wrapped up in this are people who have actually never had other hobbies, because they began gaming very early and that’s always been their go-to. At least that was the case with me in particular.
I’m hoping to release an article soon with 50+ ideas for activities to try, and a good process for enjoying them while detoxing from games, because another part of the difficulty is that the type of stimulation you get from games is different than other activities so it takes a period of detox to realign.
@ 75 - Haha definitely!
@ radscorpion9 - Thanks for your comments. Yes exactly! That’s the main point I was trying to make. We get so wrapped up in games being good or bad, or whether it’s an addiction or not when that just confuses the conversation and misses the point of actually helping people who WANT help. I hope my talk can shift that conversation, in the very least a slight amount.
@ Azza - Finding a sense of direction can be difficult. I would only encourage you to continue this pursuit and not to give on trying to find it. Sometimes it just takes more time than you would like, but focusing on finding that purpose is worth it! I’ve also heard from many people that teaching English in foreign countries has been a great way of finding that sense of purpose!
@ rd & noobskills- Yes thank you for clarifying.
@ RezJ - This would be accurate yes. If you watch the tedx talk on porn addiction you can learn more about this!
@ freewareplayer - Yes this is correct. It’s why the main point of the discussion I’m trying to create is that it’s not even about the games, it’s about what you get out of the games, and by understanding that you can unlock the power to move on from games… by identifying and ultimately overcoming the underlying reasons why you are playing in the first place.
@ wUndertUnge - I’ve heard great things of those videos. Thank you for sharing.
@ obesechicken13 - I do plan on doing an AMA on reddit to further this discussion. I’m currently traveling around Europe so that is a bit difficult in present time.
It’s definitely not my place to tell someone to stop if they don’t want to. I’m merely trying to empower people to stop if they have a desire to. Unfortunately, prior to my article - at least to the best of my knowledge - the advice out there at the time on how to quit was poor and didn’t serve people. It didn’t help them, even though they were searching for the answer!
All I’m trying to do is give people a framework to think about the problem and practical tools to help. It’s completely up to them whether they want to quit or not. I’m also unclear what your point was about the friends. In my article one of the key points is to encourage people to go out and make new friends, because many times the friends gamers have are gamers and if they’re trying to move on from games that will make it more difficult. Thanks for your input!
@ VayneAuthority - I certainly agree that it’s not a matter of video games being better or worse than other hobbies. I fundamentally disagree that looking at the problem from the perspective of nobody does anything better than game/tv/etc. I strongly believe in empowering people to pursue the passions they have and not to settle for laying around all day doing nothing.
Of course, this is ultimately each individual’s choice and if someone wants to just watch TV all day, that’s their perogative.
Also, 97% of kids 2-17 play video games and the trend is risiing quickly (17% increase in kids aged 2-5 in the last 2 years), so I do believe it would be easy to argue that in the future the number of people who play video games vs. watch tv, etc will be very high on the video games side. Just food for thought.
One of my main points is that with how early we are beginning to play games (think 2 years old), we aren't even given a chance to learn about other hobbies or passions anymore. It's not like that 2 year old is making the choice to game, it's their parents. Not to mention the issues with always being given entertainment instead of interaction and how that affects someone's long-term social growth. Anyways, happy to have the discussion, thanks for your input.
@ riotjune - No problem! I'm just excited this discussion is moving forward. It's always great to connect with actual gamers themselves, because it's us as a community who need to shape the conversation moving forward.
I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar. Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote: I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar. Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything.
On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote: It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring
Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out:
- sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer
and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv.
Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention.
Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right? Isn't a good, carefree job the only thing that allows you to play video games in your remaining time?
On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote: I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar. Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything.
On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote: It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring
Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out:
- sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer
and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv.
Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right?
thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here.
sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea... coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while brew my own beer - don't like beer haha
So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste.
I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that.
Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote: I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar. Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything.
On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote: It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring
Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out:
- sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer
and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv.
Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right?
thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here.
sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea... coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while brew my own beer - don't like beer haha
So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste.
I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that.
I'm not trying to tell anybody what he/she should do. But I do find it hard to believe that somebody finds nothing non-videogame related interesting (whether he/she wants to do it is a totally different story).
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
Wow! It's amazing that the speaker is posting on TL, what an honor. Great video, it made me think a lot, and true to video gamer nature, a 6 minute talk is perfect for our short attention spans : P
I was going to ask a question but you covered most of it in your bigger response. Keep up the good work, I really like the idea of compassion over judgement : ]
This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead.
On October 27 2013 03:05 willoc wrote: This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead.
I too was left a little disappointed with the lack of substantial practical advice.
On October 27 2013 03:05 willoc wrote: This guy's view seems narrow and not well thought out. What can you say when you spent your childhood obsessed with something to the point where you ignore everything else. He is most likely very bitter at his video game experience. He briefly mentions moderation and then never explains what that could be. Kids that were in his situation definitely need help but the only practical thing I got from his talk is that you shouldn't ignore your young kids, should encourage them to play with other kids and shouldn't let them play with an Ipad all day. Any self-respecting parent ALREADY does these things.
What is the out-of-the-box or original part of this Ted Talk? Seems like some poster-boy type thing instead.
I too was left a little disappointed with the lack of substantial practical advice.
I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my original statement. What mishimaBeef said is how I felt.
I used to play a ton of video games, mainly for the first reason stated in the video: temporary escapism. I went through a pretty terrible period a couple of years ago and instead of facing the problems I chose to run away from them. Nowadays I got my problems sorted out and I find myself playing a lot less video games. My interests also evolved a lot throughout the years, though, which is by no means a small factor.
The other reason I don't spend nearly as much time playing video games as I used to is the feeling of "been there, done that." I've been playing video games on and off since I was 6 (which is 18 years ago) and to be honest, a shooter is and has always been a shooter: you have guns and you shoot stuff. You can only do that for so long until it gets boring. The same with RTS. The only thing that improved incredibly the past 15 years is graphical fidelity. Apart from that we are still gathering resources and training units from production buildings, just like we did in the time of Brood War and Age of Empires.
On October 27 2013 00:11 MidKnight wrote: I certainly see the point when it comes down to grindy games like MMORPGs (WoW as an example where certain tasks are assuredly created as a way to take advantage of people with addictive personalities), in general though I don't see it being any different from "addiction" to other hobbies. Some people play guitar to the point of "obsession", some people play golf, some people hang out with their friends at a bar. Yes, video games are a lazy hobby and with certain personality traits it can manifest itself to causing a lot of harm, but this kind of talk still seems like it focuses on the wrong thing.
I think the keyword is social acceptance. I think that that is the root of the problem and linked to everything.
On October 27 2013 00:33 Thomas Sowell wrote: It's not that games are so addicting, it's that real life is so boring
Here are a couple of interesting things that I plan on doing sooner or later, maybe you can try some of that out:
- sky diving - driving a tank - coral diving - learn how to shave with a straight razor - brew my own beer
and I hope that I can get back to platinum some day, though that is gaming related obv.
Anyways somehow I still find it hard to understand how some people can be so glued to video games that they neglect everything else. There has been a period of time in my life (~6 month to a year) where I was also up all night to play video games. But I transitioned very naturally out of it, because other parts in my life which were more important to my overall life plan demanded more attention. Shouldn't that be the case with everybody? I mean even if you plan is to play video games all your life (why not?), you still need a job to earn money so that you can live that dream, right?
thats a pretty good counter list for me so im going to go ahead play devil's advocate here.
sky diving - I already have difficulty breathing in a car with the top down, I imagine I would pass out at the least or worse doing sky diving Driving a tank - already don't like driving a car so yea... coral diving - can't even swim let alone dive underwater learn how to shave with a straight razor - nothing to say here really, I do this once in a while brew my own beer - don't like beer haha
So as you can see everyone is extremely different and we shouldn't try to regulate what other people do with their time or be concerned with them. As long as they are meeting basic life needs and are happy I see no reason to push them into doing other stuff. it's like music really. Everyone has their individually unique taste.
I do agree with the speaker however that using the iPad and such and getting kids addicted to always needing entertainment and electronics at a young age is horrible, but that's where it stops for me. Once they are of age to make their own decisions then that's that.
I'm not trying to tell anybody what he/she should do. But I do find it hard to believe that somebody finds nothing non-videogame related interesting (whether he/she wants to do it is a totally different story).
Because you are defining life by it's exceptions, not by it's norms. The norm of life is: wake up, shower, eat, go to work, come home, run errands, relax a couple hours, go to bed, rinse and repeat. Day after day for decades. That's life. Driving a tank (wtf?) is not life, unless you are military in which case your life is even shittier than what I just mentioned.
On October 27 2013 03:57 maartendq wrote: I used to play a ton of video games, mainly for the first reason stated in the video: temporary escapism. I went through a pretty terrible period a couple of years ago and instead of facing the problems I chose to run away from them. Nowadays I got my problems sorted out and I find myself playing a lot less video games. My interests also evolved a lot throughout the years, though, which is by no means a small factor.
The other reason I don't spend nearly as much time playing video games as I used to is the feeling of "been there, done that." I've been playing video games on and off since I was 6 (which is 18 years ago) and to be honest, a shooter is and has always been a shooter: you have guns and you shoot stuff. You can only do that for so long until it gets boring. The same with RTS. The only thing that improved incredibly the past 15 years is graphical fidelity. Apart from that we are still gathering resources and training units from production buildings, just like we did in the time of Brood War and Age of Empires.
I think you're probably right, but thanks to Kickstarter we're starting to see very niche games (and experimental games) coming out that keep things fresh. Games like Underrail are throwbacks to classics like Fallout 2 which I thoroughly enjoyed playing the Alpha of, even if its graphics are relatively low-end. Its probably more of an exception at this point, as most games really are just repetitions of things that have already been done and you can get tired, especially when there's so much out in the world to see and explore. On the other hand from Thomas Sowell's point, most people really don't have an opportunity to see these things. Whether its the daily grind where you have not much time left over except weekends and holidays, or perhaps you're just unlucky enough to be born into the slums or in some impoverished nation where its non-stop back breaking work for low wages...I feel like video games are really one of the few points of positive escapism in the world. At that point video games are the only source of positive light for some people.
But anyway its important not to confuse things. Certain people do need help in first world countries, and at the very least the video does help in illuminating an important issue (much like how Occupy Wall Street didn't actually propose any solutions and was pretty confused as a protest, but it did highlight an important issue that evolved into various concerns taken up by other people).
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
1. How did he pay for his video games? If he wasn't working at 15. How the hell would he get them? If my kid was playing games and being worthless I would not support his entertainment budget.
On October 24 2013 03:19 riotjune wrote: I prefer the term "problematic use."
On October 24 2013 03:29 Godwrath wrote: Or just "growing up".
so you guys say that people can't actually be addicted to video games?
No more so than people can get addicted to watching Television or playing monopoly/cards.
i disagree becouse gaming does involve alot more social interaction then television and is way more acesable for people with social anxiets then something like cards.
the way how you treat games and those 2 things are compeltly diffrent.
On October 24 2013 03:19 riotjune wrote: I prefer the term "problematic use."
On October 24 2013 03:29 Godwrath wrote: Or just "growing up".
so you guys say that people can't actually be addicted to video games?
No more so than people can get addicted to watching Television or playing monopoly/cards.
I agree with sabas...video games can be particularly immersive. I don't think playing monopoly/cards or watching TV has the same effect, because in a video game you are directly interacting with and controlling a character. I know for a fact that a few people have died from playing video games too long; they literally forgot to eat (or drink, I forget which) and they died. People can die from overexertion in other ways too of course...but it just goes to show that the potential for video games to immerse you in the game world and lead to you forgetting some very important functions is pretty high. Whether you define it as an addiction is uncertain, but its clearly negative
On October 24 2013 03:19 riotjune wrote: I prefer the term "problematic use."
On October 24 2013 03:29 Godwrath wrote: Or just "growing up".
so you guys say that people can't actually be addicted to video games?
No more so than people can get addicted to watching Television or playing monopoly/cards.
I agree with sabas...video games can be particularly immersive. I don't think playing monopoly/cards or watching TV has the same effect, because in a video game you are directly interacting with and controlling a character. I know for a fact that a few people have died from playing video games too long; they literally forgot to eat (or drink, I forget which) and they died. People can die from overexertion in other ways too of course...but it just goes to show that the potential for video games to immerse you in the game world and lead to you forgetting some very important functions is pretty high. Whether you define it as an addiction is uncertain, but its clearly negative
Someone watches 3 seasons of a show in one day. That isn't an addiction, they absolutely always made sure they had adequate calories and water intake during that day. A person plays black jack for 12 hours a day, sure his money is on the line so that means he has more in it but so is your skill level in video games. Monopoly was thrown in there because people have KILLED (not died doing it) others over it.
Everything has a somewhat addictive quality. Don't ignore this fact. How many of you have watched netflix or hulu (or whatever they have where you live) for 12+ hours a day instead of studying for that test that is only a week away or brushing up on some work you need done next month.
On October 24 2013 03:19 riotjune wrote: I prefer the term "problematic use."
On October 24 2013 03:29 Godwrath wrote: Or just "growing up".
so you guys say that people can't actually be addicted to video games?
No more so than people can get addicted to watching Television or playing monopoly/cards.
i disagree becouse gaming does involve alot more social interaction then television and is way more acesable for people with social anxiets then something like cards.
the way how you treat games and those 2 things are compeltly diffrent.
Not all addictions are socially interactive, some of them actually destroy socialization all together as one of the effects (drugs are a good example of this, hard to talk to people when you're unconscious.) There are a lot of ways something is addictive. My point was everything can be. Math to some can be addictive, it is there way of figuring out the universe and get closer to whatever it is they want to get closer to.
And people don't treat video games all that differently than television. Talk to someone about their favorite show, they'll know everything about it and act like it is the best thing ever and that they want to be in that world and explore it and they'll read fanfiction about it in order to get more of that show and spend hours and hours and hours extra reading all the behind the scenes information.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
Sigh this video really reminded me of myself for the last few years. I don't think I was "addicted" per se, I just didn't know what else to do so I just played video games, eventually I suppose that became an addiction specially when I started playing WoW.
Nothing sucks more than being the one guy who doesn't know what to do with his life, at least that's my experience. I saw my old high school friends (the few I stayed in touch with) went to university and studied all kinds of things, while I was at home playing BW or WoW. Years went by and they graduated, got jobs, even got kids etc etc while I was still playing these games, it also didn't help I met people who I bonded with in these games so I felt these were my only friends and gaming was the only way to interact with them.
Eventually though I reconnected with an old friend who was just leaving his gaming days behind him, the new age of games for your mom started and blizzard got on that bandwagon faster than you can say For The Horde and made both my favorite games (SC2 and WoW) into brainless casual activities akin to farmville, I always liked to challenge myself in games so these games didn't do it for me anymore regardless of my gamer friends. I honestly think if blizzard hadn't changed these games to be casual experiences I would still be playing T_T so as much as I hate what they did to games I love, I owe blizzard a lot.
Now instead of wondering what "I'm meant to do", what "I'm good for" I just picked to go with something I have an interest in, programming and I been studying for a while, I plan on going to university next year and study CS so things are very different now. Last game I played was FTL and I played for like 3 hours? haven't touched it again since, I honestly have so much catching up to do that there isn't time for gaming, the good thing is that all those high school friends who I was jealous of are stuck with terrible jobs and a bunch of kids, while I'm free to shape the rest of my life however I want. I'm kind of happy that I went through all that crap, having less time to do everything you hoped to do in your life gives you a bigger sense of urgency and what's important and what isn't.
I liked how the video went to the heart of the problem and the causes of it. I wish he'd had more concrete solutions though. Haven't read through whole thread but I'm sure knee jerk reactions are inevitable. When something is useful and pleasurable to you in the short term though harmful in the long, it is easier to defend it than give it up.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
no one is saying that once you have an addiction you should just give up because lol you can't do anything. addiction is a real phenomenon that fucks with your mind, and combine that with pressures from life and you can break at any moment which is much more than a "excuse". Basically I am criticizing your inability to empathize, not so much with the point you are trying to make.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote:
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
no one is saying that once you have an addiction you should just give up because lol you can't do anything. addiction is a real phenomenon that fucks with your mind, and combine that with pressures from life and you can break at any moment which is much more than a "excuse". Basically I am criticizing your inability to empathize, not so much with the point you are trying to make.
Everyone deals with stress and pain, that doesn't make a person more special then someone else. You mistake my inability to accept an excuse with my ability to empathize. I don't pity people, thats disrespectful to them. I believe that is where the confusion is coming in.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:11 RezJ wrote: [quote] If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
no one is saying that once you have an addiction you should just give up because lol you can't do anything. addiction is a real phenomenon that fucks with your mind, and combine that with pressures from life and you can break at any moment which is much more than a "excuse". Basically I am criticizing your inability to empathize, not so much with the point you are trying to make.
Everyone deals with stress and pain, that doesn't make a person more special then someone else. You mistake my inability to accept an excuse with my ability to empathize. I don't pity people, thats disrespectful to them. I believe that is where the confusion is coming in.
Screw science, what we need is harsher judgments! If only we exhibit tough enough love Johnny will see the error of his ways and turn off his Call of Duty game.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote: [quote]
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
no one is saying that once you have an addiction you should just give up because lol you can't do anything. addiction is a real phenomenon that fucks with your mind, and combine that with pressures from life and you can break at any moment which is much more than a "excuse". Basically I am criticizing your inability to empathize, not so much with the point you are trying to make.
Everyone deals with stress and pain, that doesn't make a person more special then someone else. You mistake my inability to accept an excuse with my ability to empathize. I don't pity people, thats disrespectful to them. I believe that is where the confusion is coming in.
Screw science, what we need is harsher judgments! If only we exhibit tough enough love Johnny will see the error of his ways and turn off his Call of Duty game.
I think different people will respond to different approaches. For some, tough love may work. Others may benefit from seeing the cause and effect of what they're doing. But yeah ultimately help should be offered with compassion. Pity has nothing to do with it.
On October 27 2013 01:54 Jisall wrote: Addiction is an excuse. Your give away the control over your life to whatever "addicting" activity you participate in, letting you play the victim. Addiction is a medical excuse to explain a lack of self-control that allows for the proliferation and justification for your lack of self-control.
If you lack self-control then it isn't an excuse, it's a real problem. Addiction can be incredibly difficult to overcome, and you shouldn't judge every single addiction in the world based on your personal experience.
Self-control is learned by discipline, self-discipline if your the only one to do it. There is no excuse why you can not be fully in charge of your actions. People who quit and blame "addiction" because they can't control themselves are the people I judge.
On October 27 2013 04:13 Thomas Sowell wrote:
On October 27 2013 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote: [quote]
I remember a book about addiction (chocolate, going to the beach, drinking, etc.) and the circuits in the brain. Haven`t read it though but seems to me certain circuit activity in your brain aligns with so-called addictions.
People really go through some double-think when it comes to this stuff.
On the one hand, we accept that the human brain is a machine and has circuits and these things determine our behavior.
On the other hand, we still want to believe that somehow the "real us" is independent of this machine and has "control" over what the circuits do. In other words, that we have free will.
People like to think that addiction removes free will, but the truth is there was no free will to begin with. Addiction only makes it very clear what factors are determining someone's behavior. In the absence of addiction there are still clearly factors determining the behavior, but they are more complex and nuanced and therefore give the appearance of autonomy or self control where there is none.
This is exactly opposite of what I mean. The minute you resign yourself to having absolutely no control over your life is the minute you quit and your life becomes meaningless. Your brain may be hardwired to give your a handicap. You should be grateful for that, because when you overcome your "addiction", you separate yourself from everyone who couldn't who had it easier than you. That gives your life value, that gives your the confidence to take on anything, that is what makes you successful.
You sound addicted to judging other people and proving that you have control. (mostly sarcastic)
I have no control over my life, that doesn't mean my life doesn't have purpose or meaning. I cannot control how you will read and interpret what I am saying. I cannot control my grandmothers cancer. I cannot control the government. I cannot control how women see me. I can barely control my own thoughts. I can control my second thought and my first action. And yes with discipline and introspection I may someday have slightly more control over my thoughts than that. I can have faith that things will work out even if I cannot control them. Being delusional and thinking that I run the show is completely egotistical. Humility is a good thing. And addiction is not a bad word; it just means that I have a pattern of behaviors that no longer serve me but remain as my solution to virtually all my problems, part of me has been programmed to continue the behavior anyways.
Even if I only have control over myself it still has a lot of meaning to me. Actually it makes it much easier to accept things and work on the only thing that matters, how I treat myself and the people around me.
Mastery over self is what I am advocating. You have influence on no-one but yourself. It is the prideful and egotistical men who believes he has power over other people. It is a weak man who believes that he has no power over himself. "Addiction" is admitting you have no power over yourself.
If you are continuing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves your goals blaming addiction instead of your lack of self-control, you are not living to your potential.
You will notice, in none of my posts have I told someone how to conduct their life. What I do is call people out on using "addiction" as an excuse.
addiction is a neurochemical change in your brain. once that door is opened it will always stay open, and yes mastery over self is how you stop yourself. BUT it is a never ending battle, addiction is a real physical phenomenon, and you seem to take it lightly while preaching. It is easy to see and point out the rational way to do things, but it is hard to actually BE rational. so please, get off your high horse
It is hard, it is a battle. That is why so many people use "addiction" as an excuse to quit trying. Justifying quitting with science is just another excuse.
no one is saying that once you have an addiction you should just give up because lol you can't do anything. addiction is a real phenomenon that fucks with your mind, and combine that with pressures from life and you can break at any moment which is much more than a "excuse". Basically I am criticizing your inability to empathize, not so much with the point you are trying to make.
Everyone deals with stress and pain, that doesn't make a person more special then someone else. You mistake my inability to accept an excuse with my ability to empathize. I don't pity people, thats disrespectful to them. I believe that is where the confusion is coming in.
Screw science, what we need is harsher judgments! If only we exhibit tough enough love Johnny will see the error of his ways and turn off his Call of Duty game.
Calling someone out on an excuse is not judging. Expecting Johnny to take responsibility for his actions not allowing him to play the "addicted" victim is more respectful to Johnny then pitying him and allowing him to use that excuse, effectively agreeing that Johnny is not strong enough to have control over his actions (aka he is weak). Not allowing Johnny to use an excuse effectively states that Johnny is just as capable as everybody else (aka he is strong). See the difference?
In the case you presented, Johnny may see Call of Duty as a benefit to his life and his goals (maybe he wants to go pro, be the best CoD player ever idk), in which case all the power in the world to him; I support him pursuing his dreams. On the other hand if Johnny see's CoD as a detriment to his life, yet continues to play because he is "addicted", he is using an excuse.
Replace video games with any "addiction", the concept is universal.
I'm not familiar with the concept of "calling out," is that something humans do to see who has a bigger peen? My query at urbandictionary tells me it's meant more of as an insult.
You sound like a non-smoker who never smoked telling a smoker "Why don't you take responsibility and just quit you weak sap? I bet I can do it since I'm strong!" If you never smoked, you would never understand the craving that addiction entails and what smokers experience. Sure, quitting might be harder for some than others, but it doesn't change the fact there are a multitude of methods and resources in getting people to quit, which wouldn't exist if it were easy just to "man up" and stop smoking. People have tried taking responsibility and failed.
Same with alcohol abuse, gambling, and I can see the same potential problem with video games. These things can be enjoyed in moderation, but when one does them in such an excess it starts interfering with one's daily life, then it becomes a problem, and said problem becomes labeled as addiction/problematic use/whatever something most people don't want to be associated with. Which is hard for some people to admit they have an addiction problem in the first place, the first step to address addiction is to realize one has it and this can be difficult if one insists they "choose to drink" or "choose to play video games" even if these activities are bringing in other problems in life.
You can say the same thing with any other hobby or whatever. It's just that behind smoking, alcohol and gambling there are chemicals (nicotine, alcohol, dopamine) and chemical pathways at work in the brain that make addiction to these things easier. For video games? I don't know, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's also dopamine at work (same stuff used for learning). Maybe somebody with more knowledge in the field can shed more light on the matter. The fact that more children are exposed to video games at an earlier age could be a potential problem. Now if only getting math problems correct in school offer the same rush...
Anyway, this thread will probably repeat itself ad nauseam with both sides repeating their views and leave neither side convinced, and I'm fine with that. At least we have more discussion and perspectives on a matter that always kind of got gamers riled up. We're gamers after all and don't like to see gaming associated with something "bad" such as "addiction."
On October 28 2013 00:13 riotjune wrote: I'm not familiar with the concept of "calling out," is that something humans do to see who has a bigger peen? My query at urbandictionary tells me it's meant more of as an insult.
You sound like a non-smoker who never smoked telling a smoker "Why don't you take responsibility and just quit you weak sap? I bet I can do it since I'm strong!" If you never smoked, you would never understand the craving that addiction entails and what smokers experience. Sure, quitting might be harder for some than others, but it doesn't change the fact there are a multitude of methods and resources in getting people to quit, which wouldn't exist if it were easy just to "man up" and stop smoking. People have tried taking responsibility and failed.
Same with alcohol abuse, gambling, and I can see the same potential problem with video games. These things can be enjoyed in moderation, but when one does them in such an excess it starts interfering with one's daily life, then it becomes a problem, and said problem becomes labeled as addiction/problematic use/whatever something most people don't want to be associated with. Which is hard for some people to admit they have an addiction problem in the first place, the first step to address addiction is to realize one has it and this can be difficult if one insists they "choose to drink" or "choose to play video games" even if these activities are bringing in other problems in life.
You can say the same thing with any other hobby or whatever. It's just that behind smoking, alcohol and gambling there are chemicals (nicotine, alcohol, dopamine) and chemical pathways at work in the brain that make addiction to these things easier. For video games? I don't know, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's also dopamine at work (same stuff used for learning). Maybe somebody with more knowledge in the field can shed more light on the matter. The fact that more children are exposed to video games at an earlier age could be a potential problem. Now if only getting math problems correct in school offer the same rush...
Anyway, this thread will probably repeat itself ad nauseam with both sides repeating their views and leave neither side convinced, and I'm fine with that. At least we have more discussion and perspectives on a matter that always kind of got gamers riled up. We're gamers after all and don't like to see gaming associated with something "bad" such as "addiction."
If you get insulted by someone calling you out, then there was some truth to whatever got you mad. If you don't care, then no worries, it does not apply to you.
You know nothing of my past, and yet are making assumptions to try and justify discounting what I am saying. Support groups are just that, supplemental. When you are in a moment of weakness, you have people there to keep you pushing forward. I have infinitely more respect for someone who uses a support group, then someone who never tries to quit and calls it an addiction or someone who gives up trying. Ultimately the person responsible for a behavior change is you. A support group is not quitting for you, a prescription drug is not quitting for you. That why I don't accept when people say they have an "addiction" and can't quit. They have no confidence in themselves. They are giving away their balls to a video game, a cigarette, a bottle, etc. They don't see their potential.
Side Note: Dopamine is a chemical in the brain that your brain releases to reward you. Dopamine makes you feel good. The wikipedia article on Dopamine is educational.
Again, thanks to everyone for the great discussion. After writing my original article the comments and discussion from many gamers led to major improvements in the overall framework. I appreciate everything you guys have contributed.
If anybody has any specific questions for me, I’m here to answer them. I’ll try to comment on as many of other comments as I’ve seen so far but may miss a few.
@ MidKnight - Thanks for your feedback. What do you think it should have focused on?
@ Thomas Sowell - This can definitely be the case. I believe one of the root causes of this is that many people are now getting into gaming so young that they are never given a real opportunity to experience other aspects of life.
@ JustPassingBy - Great examples. I went skydiving recently and I can say for a fact I’ve never experienced anything like it. Highly recommended. That can be the case with everybody but many have a much more difficult time. It’s similar to how many people can drink in moderation but for others it’s incredibly incredibly difficult to not just get black out wasted every time.
@ VayneAuthority - I do agree that all people are different, however and I’ve explained this in more detail in a previous post on this thread, there is a difference between having fun and being happy and in my experience - and my article comments can be proof of this if you’re that curious - many people who are playing games that WANT TO STOP are actually depressed by their continued play and aren’t actually happy. I’d be curious at what age you think it’s appropriate for them to make their own decisions as well, and also, if they are making their own decision to WANT TO STOP… should we help?
@ mishimaBeef - Haha thanks. For me that was something I noticed from the article comments a lot… was that people were waiting for permission to stop, so I wanted to add that in. Every talk has to be a bit cheesy right?
@ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
@ RezJ - Thanks for your contribution to the discussion!
@ Confuse - Thanks for your comment. Haha I definitely think it would have been better in 8-12 minutes but 6 was what I was given so that’s what I worked with. I do agree it’s good for helping people watch it!
@ willoc - I appreciate your input. To be honest, I’m not bitter at all about it. During my time playing games I was also an elite athlete and had a decent social life as well. The time constraint of the talk made it very difficult to expand on vew points which I agree was unfortunate. I do wish I could have gone into more practical steps.
I would challenge you on your notion that any self-respecting parent already does not give their kids iPads to play with, because video game/parenting trends worldwide would likely disagree with you. I had absolutely incredible parents for example, but I was very difficult for them to deal with when it came to games. I think it’s inaccurate to assume that parents who give their kids iPads are doing it with the awareness of the long-term affects on their kids lives. That’s one reason why I’m trying to bring more awareness to them about it.
The original part of the TEDx talk is not villifying gamers. If you watch any other talk on video games on TEDx they all focus on debating whether games are good or bad, instead of trying to focus on helping people that want help.
@ HeeroFX - I played SC, CS 1.6 and WoW mainly, wasn’t much $. Also, I appreciate that you agree with the points. On the parenting side I think it’s easy from an outside point of view to think about how that process works, but in my case and in many cases it’s not as simple as just taking the games away. I DID have a section in my talk on that exact question but unfortunately I blanked out during the talk and forgot this part, haha. Whoops!
@ TanKLoveR - Thanks for commenting. I’m stoked to hear you were able to move on and figure out how to start doing the things you want to do and become happy doing it. I understand and completely relate to the struggle and difficulty in making this happen.
@ Mothra - Thanks for commenting! I agree about practical steps. My hope was that with the talk we could create more awareness around the problem, since the 6 minutes didn’t leave me with a lot of time to dive deeper. I’d love to hear what you think about the article and whether the article + comments help you with more practical steps: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
I'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology and I'm currently doing my diagnostic practicum at the community jail. I diagnose a lot of substance use disorder and related "addictions" (side note: "addiction" isn't a term we use because it's so ambiguous).
I am of the professional opinion that video game use should be clinically diagnosable in the same way that internet use disorder and gambling disorder or even substance use disorders are. In terms of brain chemistry, video games are really good at manipulating dopamine responses, and the criteria for a disorder are basically "does it cause significant distress or disability" and "is it far outside the tendencies of the norm" which it can be.
Also, people have died from video games and experience withdrawal. People neglect their children and some have died because of video games.
THAT BEING SAID, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BAN VIDEOGAMES OR THAT VIDEOGAMES ARE BAD. I THINK PEOPLE ARE DUMB.
@ ZERG_RUSSIAN - Thanks for adding your professional opinion and helping to educate us all on the clinical side of this equation. I really appreciate it!
self-control requires mental discipline and fortitude. Both of which require high level of mindfulness in order to be aware of your feelings and not auto-react to them but respond in an free way. Best way to train mindfulness is to meditate daily and train your mind. Without a strong mind, long term change is not possible and the strength of the mind is something we cultivate over time. Your mind wants to be entertained and satisfied all the time, and when you sit down and focus you are essentially observing what the mind wants, but not succumbing to it. It is a form of control over self that develops mental fortitude.
I believe addiction is a state of mind when urges are extremely high (due to physical changes in the brain), and at the same time the conscious mind is very weak. With the help of family/friends and cultivating certain behaviours, I would say it is the best way to tackle the problem. All of that said, I really don't think video games are truly addicting, but more so that kids are retreating from real life and bored, at least that is how it was for me personally.
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
I do agree with your emphasis on exposing (esp young people) to real life and other kinds of hobbies / enjoyable things to do. I was always more of a gamer as a kid but I went through phases of using bow and arrows, javelins, general play with my sister and swimming in the pool as a kid too. While I do believe gaming almost certainly has the highest 'fun factor' of just about any activity, it feels good to do shit outside and break it up too. The thought of doing something productive (even if it's something stupid like making chainmail, trying to paint something or going for a bike ride) is nice and imo allows you to have more fun when you play something because a) you've not wasted your day and b) in limiting your time (not by a huge amount) you're more committed to having fun (if that makes sense).
The funny thing is, as a kid my parents gave me a lot of freedom to do whatever I wanted (within reason). I remember choosing not to swim/go outside even on some reasonably hot days (this occurred over a pretty reasonable period of time) because gaming was more fun instead. I remember feeling kinda shitty about it but not caring too much cos I'd squeeze in some workout time at some point and decided that would half-cover it. But from my parents perspective it must have taken some pretty good resilience to let me continue doing my own thing and allow me to realise for myself that real life has it's ups on occasion and develop my own hobbies (bike riding, and metalwork etc).
Edit: Though I'm not at all opposed to introducing kids to hobbies or whatever to do outside / irl, just to clarify.
On October 27 2013 10:21 TanKLoveR wrote: Sigh this video really reminded me of myself for the last few years. I don't think I was "addicted" per se, I just didn't know what else to do so I just played video games, eventually I suppose that became an addiction specially when I started playing WoW.
Nothing sucks more than being the one guy who doesn't know what to do with his life, at least that's my experience. I saw my old high school friends (the few I stayed in touch with) went to university and studied all kinds of things, while I was at home playing BW or WoW. Years went by and they graduated, got jobs, even got kids etc etc while I was still playing these games, it also didn't help I met people who I bonded with in these games so I felt these were my only friends and gaming was the only way to interact with them.
Eventually though I reconnected with an old friend who was just leaving his gaming days behind him, the new age of games for your mom started and blizzard got on that bandwagon faster than you can say For The Horde and made both my favorite games (SC2 and WoW) into brainless casual activities akin to farmville, I always liked to challenge myself in games so these games didn't do it for me anymore regardless of my gamer friends. I honestly think if blizzard hadn't changed these games to be casual experiences I would still be playing T_T so as much as I hate what they did to games I love, I owe blizzard a lot.
Now instead of wondering what "I'm meant to do", what "I'm good for" I just picked to go with something I have an interest in, programming and I been studying for a while, I plan on going to university next year and study CS so things are very different now. Last game I played was FTL and I played for like 3 hours? haven't touched it again since, I honestly have so much catching up to do that there isn't time for gaming, the good thing is that all those high school friends who I was jealous of are stuck with terrible jobs and a bunch of kids, while I'm free to shape the rest of my life however I want. I'm kind of happy that I went through all that crap, having less time to do everything you hoped to do in your life gives you a bigger sense of urgency and what's important and what isn't.
This guy trash talked me very badly two times. I'm glad he's doing bad at life. Revenge is sweet, and victory tastes like a delicious hot chocolate or a good red wine.
Gotta be honest, I loved writting this. Hhahhahahahah. Oh, and just for the record, I'm glad you're a loser.
On October 24 2013 08:03 StatixEx wrote: Ive posted about this before and was the basis of my software programming and engineering degree, its a really interesting thing to look into but for me i concluded its a load of old bollocks and its something in the end you grow out of. just hear me out if you can be arsed
most of us in here are hard core gamers, you cant get addicted to video games . .you just really really REALLY like to play them. Take video games away from someone and nothing will happen, take any other addicting thing (being careful to not go onto drugs and the like here) and the body shuts down and people have died through the with draw. you cant get addicted to video games, the word needs replacing and i can almost guarantee video games can be replaced by something else where as this new thing becomes addicting.
eg, my life, i play games every single day, have done for over 27 years now, i feel im addicted to them and the gf and friends say i am, so, when i go for a holiday for 3 weeks and dont play a single one . . well nothing happened. Last month i joined the gym as i want to compete in a triathlon, i never played a game for a couple of weeks . . nothing happened to me, BUT when i smoked 60 cigs a day i simply couldnt quit for years, when i finally overcame it the transformation my body went through hurt and the craving i went through and stupid shit i did to stop just not going for a cig, i think back now was just plain ridiculous and i feel a fool . . but i couldnt believe what my mind and body was doing to me . . . it was something you cant imagine if youve never been addicted. no you cant get addicted to video games you just really Really REALLY like playing them and dont really want to stop. Addiction to me became to mean something the body thinks it simply cant live without, games im afraid could be replaced by anything. I told you to give up games and you could be an f1 driver (insert thing you really really want to be here) and wallah . . .you just stopped with no side affects or withdraw
Addiction can actually be scientifically measured by a rise in delta fos b in the brain. You can be addicted to anything, its just that some addictions are worse than others. I know what you mean, but just because you didn't have cravings for video games like you did with nicotine doesn't mean no one else does.
People have different tolerances to things, some people get addicted to alchohol after one drink, some never get addicted even when they drink all the time.
I quit cigs easy, but if you want to get me away from the computer be prepared to bring a tow truck.
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyiSEonUFA
).
Alcoholism is actually different in terms of addiction if I remember correctly because it actually works primarily* on GABA receptors rather than dopamine receptors and after a period of abuse the body has a neuroregulatory correction tendency whereby it decreases the amount of GABA receptors in the body. This causes uncontrolled firing of the synapses when someone quits which can lead to seizures and all kinds of weird effects that result from random synapses firing because I think GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter on most parts of the body. There are other drugs of abuse that this happens with but they're mostly benzodiazepines and similar drugs. In that sense, the alcohol withdrawal is actually different from, say, a nicotine or an amphetamine withdrawal, mainly because you can actually die from cold turkey-ing alcohol.
The wikipedia page is enlightening and where I verified most of my information but I figured I'd distill it a bit because it's reaaaaaaaally long.
On October 27 2013 10:21 TanKLoveR wrote: Sigh this video really reminded me of myself for the last few years. I don't think I was "addicted" per se, I just didn't know what else to do so I just played video games, eventually I suppose that became an addiction specially when I started playing WoW.
Nothing sucks more than being the one guy who doesn't know what to do with his life, at least that's my experience. I saw my old high school friends (the few I stayed in touch with) went to university and studied all kinds of things, while I was at home playing BW or WoW. Years went by and they graduated, got jobs, even got kids etc etc while I was still playing these games, it also didn't help I met people who I bonded with in these games so I felt these were my only friends and gaming was the only way to interact with them.
Eventually though I reconnected with an old friend who was just leaving his gaming days behind him, the new age of games for your mom started and blizzard got on that bandwagon faster than you can say For The Horde and made both my favorite games (SC2 and WoW) into brainless casual activities akin to farmville, I always liked to challenge myself in games so these games didn't do it for me anymore regardless of my gamer friends. I honestly think if blizzard hadn't changed these games to be casual experiences I would still be playing T_T so as much as I hate what they did to games I love, I owe blizzard a lot.
Now instead of wondering what "I'm meant to do", what "I'm good for" I just picked to go with something I have an interest in, programming and I been studying for a while, I plan on going to university next year and study CS so things are very different now. Last game I played was FTL and I played for like 3 hours? haven't touched it again since, I honestly have so much catching up to do that there isn't time for gaming, the good thing is that all those high school friends who I was jealous of are stuck with terrible jobs and a bunch of kids, while I'm free to shape the rest of my life however I want. I'm kind of happy that I went through all that crap, having less time to do everything you hoped to do in your life gives you a bigger sense of urgency and what's important and what isn't.
This guy trash talked me very badly two times. I'm glad he's doing bad at life. Revenge is sweet, and victory tastes like a delicious hot chocolate or a good red wine.
Gotta be honest, I loved writting this. Hhahhahahahah. Oh, and just for the record, I'm glad you're a loser.
Be nicer to people. You didn't win anything because he's suffered and that mentality will cause you to feel horrible when bad things happen to you.
@ Jisall - Yes absolutely. Do you agree that this is the same approach we should take for people who are “addicted” to video games?
@ Phenny - Thanks! I think, and of course I’m not a doctor so I cannot say for certain so this is pure speculation, but from what I understand about the way dopamine releases are manipulated in video games I would say suggest that being exposed to video games so young can create a misrepresentation of how much “fun” other activities are.
I guess part of it goes back to my suggestion that a detox is necessary away from games in order to recalibrate to the fun of other experiences, at least in my situation this was the case. Although I do remember (with a big smile on my face I will say) the fun I had playing video games, it’s a very different type of fun than what I experience now pursuing other passions I have such as DJing. Neither is “better” or “worse”, merely different, but I do believe the type of fun you receive in video games can discourage you from pursuing other activities due to them being “less fun”, when that’s not necessarily the case. It is, however, rather difficult initially to get to that point and absolutely takes time.
@ sluggaslamoo - I completely relate to you about how different some addictions are compared to others relative to each person’s personality.
@ ZERG_RUSSIAN - Thanks for continuing to correct us on the medical side of things! It’s awesome to learn more about how all of this works.
On October 28 2013 05:59 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology and I'm currently doing my diagnostic practicum at the community jail. I diagnose a lot of substance use disorder and related "addictions" (side note: "addiction" isn't a term we use because it's so ambiguous).
I am of the professional opinion that video game use should be clinically diagnosable in the same way that internet use disorder and gambling disorder or even substance use disorders are. In terms of brain chemistry, video games are really good at manipulating dopamine responses, and the criteria for a disorder are basically "does it cause significant distress or disability" and "is it far outside the tendencies of the norm" which it can be.
Also, people have died from video games and experience withdrawal. People neglect their children and some have died because of video games.
THAT BEING SAID, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BAN VIDEOGAMES OR THAT VIDEOGAMES ARE BAD. I THINK PEOPLE ARE DUMB.
I think it's interesting that i have not played video games (except for maybe ~20-30 hrs) in the last 5yrs and yet i still like to watch snipealot etc and in fact have to make myself turn it off on occasions to get on with other things. i was certainly lost in video games for a while but i'm not 100% sure you can be 'cured' or whatever this tedx talks guy calls it just cos you went cold turkey for a number of years. Not sure how others have found this...
Hi everyone, brother of the speaker here! That has no significant impact on the discussion, just letting it be known. Both Cam and I have had video games play a significant role in our adolescent ages, but I think we represent two different sides of the coin when it comes to the overarching idea of video game addiction.
I do believe that addictive personalities/disorders can latch onto the medium of video games as a means to escape their real, day-to-day problems. However, I do not think that you can actually be addicted to the video games themselves, but rather the feelings of escape that they provide. This statement should be obvious, and actually point to addiction: an alcoholic may not necessarily be addicted to the chemical substance of alcohol (although they can be!), but rather addicted to the reduced anxiety, neurosis, etc, that may come from the inebriation. Overall, I think addiction comes primarily from the individual participating in any activity (drinking, smoking, gaming, gambling) rather than the activity itself.
It has been said that the term of "addiction"/etc should not be the focus of discussion on the video, but I think that the term is a core topic to discuss in overall participation in activities, especially in adolescence. We could take a look at several teenagers around the world that figuratively breathe for baseball. It is all they think of, all they surround themselves with, and all that they participate in. They may even dismiss university/college in an attempt to go big, or may sacrifice their grades in school to have more time to participate in the sport. In most cases, a child like this would be celebrated for their passion, for their dream, and for their determination. If you replace this scenario with a child that surrounds themselves with video games, thinks about video games, and plays video games as much as possible, parents are encouraged to believe that their child is addicted, and should take appropriate action to remove their child from this environment. Where can we draw the line between passion and addiction?
As for myself, I firmly believe that I was passionate about video games, rather than addicted. An outside observer would look at my 18-hour days on weekends farming motes in WoW as an addiction, but I firmly believe that I simply had a dream of being the best, and I was determined to put in the hours to achieve this goal. Just as a high school student may skip a class for football practice, at times I would skip class on a midnight release in order to gain an edge against other players competing for ranking. However, since an outside observer simply sees a lone kid sitting in a dark room skipping school, they do not see the same tangible benefits as the high school student sacrificing their grades and/or class-time.
That being said, there are core differences between what Cam and I experienced with gaming that indicates an addiction rather than a passion. As Cam discussed in his talk, he dropped out of school. I, on the other hand, would make up for sacrificed time when I was able to, in order to continue to succeed in my academics. More so, I remember times where there were arguments over Cam participating in family vacations, because he simply wanted to stay and play video games, while I would go, and might play video games on scheduled raid nights on my laptop (if on raid progression), or would simply avoid games altogether (if farming raids). I'm not trying to illustrate who, if anyone, handled their participation in video games better, if at all, but rather illuminate that their are core behaviours that are prevalent in all forms of addiction that could be used to identify a gaming addict from a passionate gamer.
So why this long essay? I think it is imperative to the discussion to remove the medium or activity of addiction from the addict. I really enjoy Cam's video because it tries to use his addiction to video games as a case study for adolescent addictive personalities/behaviours as a whole, rather than a point to say to parents, "hey look your kid plays games, he is addicted." I think if any progress is to be made in the discussion of addictions as a whole, but also in the progression of video games as a beneficial activity and an e-sport, we must focus not on "being addicted to video games", but rather "being an addict, and latching onto video games", if that makes sense.
Is there any way to talk about video-game addiction without making video-games sound like crack? Like, I imagine there's people out there with chocolate addiction...
@ Resonate - Thanks for commenting. I’ve definitely found many people have been able to recalibrate to interacting with video games in moderation. Sometimes it just takes time. It’s interesting to hear you’ve still been able to watch videos. This is something that tends to inspire my desire to play the most, so I avoid it whenever I can.
@ Zeon0 - Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately for the purpose of this video and the time allotted I had to chose to focus on bringing more awareness to the problem instead of merely focusing on offering solutions. My desire was that if the video inspired someone to seek more information they would be able to find the answers they were looking for in the article I’ve written on the subject (of which you can find by searching “how to quit playing video games” into google.)
@ Xzilend - Great post. Thanks brother.
@ BisuDagger - Haha, I’ll add that into the next one!
@ Xpace - I think it’s rather difficult but not impossible. I disagree with the chocolate parallel, even if simply because of the scale of the problem. I certainly do not want to relate video games to crack, merely the intensity of how video games manipulate dopamine releases in your brain can have a very strong pull on someone.
My uneducated guess would be: People tend to defend their specific way of living. In games, all who are superior are tryhards, all who are inferior are noobs. On the highway all who drive faster are speeding, all who drive slower are turtles. This is, in general, no problem. But when you defend a "way of living" which is harming you socially, mentally or physically, this can be a very dangerous way.
Having an open mind and being able to reflect the impact of your own actions and what you yourself can do is a skill which is hard to practise and pretty challenging. To be fair i behave like most people and deem others uneducated, preoccupied or whatever when those infidels are not in line with my expectations and critisise me. :-/
On the matter of alcohol addiction: Due to the expected influence of the alcohol, (receptors are desensitized) smart lil human brain raises the sensibility of the receptors beforehand. This makes alcoholics very unstable when awaiting their first drinks and this leads to a hasty consumptoin of the first few doses. Is this also viable for gamers?
I've had a period in my life as well where I gamed enough that it was detrimental to my other life goals. Was A- on iccup back on brood war days, spent so much of my time playing that... Also raided on WoW. As has been stated numerous times, it doesn't matter if I have no withdrawal effects when I'm out camping. The fact is, it drew me into it when I had the option and it was detrimental to me. I had a hard time resisting it. That is enough of a reason to consider it addiction in my opinion.
Because I realized that gaming didn't get me where I wanted to go, I kept trying even though gaming really offered a more fun escape very often. And what do you know, eventually I found activities that I enjoyed doing more than gaming, things I really wanted to do and things that helped me become what I want to become. I kept meeting new people and improving my social skills, and after MULTIPLE hit and misses, I found people that I enjoyed being with and spending time with far more than gaming.
As many could already point out, and as many have pointed out before, gaming fills a void. It immerses us into a world where we can feel accomplishment and reward for very easily and even interact with other people. It gives us a reason and a reward for doing something well. And if you are truly happy with your life doing just this, who can judge you?
The thing is though, gaming gives you the easy reward. You never have to leave your comfort zone while still being rewarded. As human beings, that is an offer that is often hard to decline. But true improvement and fullfilment comes from doing things out of your comfort zone, and it is just all too easy to call something 'not fun' when you never gave it a chance. Similar to the gaming world: Do you call not being platinum something coded to your very being and genes, or do you fight it and find ways to eventually reach platinum? Is it an excuse not to have a reason to improve anymore, or will you find new ways to get to your ultimate goal?
And honestly, this topic is not about attacking video games, its about realizing that something, ANYTHING, is detrimental to your life as it is, and changing yourself for the better. The way you break out of that habit may change depending on what we are talking about, so we tackle the problem with a name that is video games in this case.
Admit it to yourself if video games are filling a void in you. If they are, they are detrimental in my opinion. Do you believe that you are growing as a person doing what you are? And I would like to stay out of semantics as in "your friends are filling a void in you too!!11"
Also, many have expressed their thoughts on wanting practical steps and advice on the video for instance, where none was given. This is just my opinion, but think about this... If one person could give everyone in the world the 'go to' answer with no effort at all, and instantly help everyone change for the better.... Yeah lets not even go further because its impossible. We are all different. The video focused on characteristics of how to find possible activities to replace something that isn't bettering you, among other things. The steps you take depend on what you like and where your strengths lie. It depends where you have to begin with.
I guess this post wasnt the best thought out, but I know that gaming was detrimental to me, still is if I give in to it, and breaking a habit is hard. It gives easy escape and easily gives us satisfaction that often keeps us from improving and bettering ourselves. If you don't have a problem with gaming and the amount of time you spend playing, then by all means enjoy the entertainment that you get. But never use it as an excuse to not try out something new or getting things done.
well seeing other people go gym hardcore or play soccer or whatever their hobby is or may it be rails, my is computergames so i cant see anything bad using most of my free time on computergames doing other things would be stupid because then i would not do my hobby in my free time oO
I like him, was addicted to playing video games for over 7 years. I consider the past 7 years a waste of time and in my opinion being addicted to video games is no joke. Sitting on your ass all day playing a game is very bad for your mental and physical health not to mention you accomplish nothing.
At least with other hobbies there is the potential to make a career out of it (such as photograpy) and it doesn't involve sitting on your ass all day.
@ Ahzz - Thanks for sharing your story. I’m happy to hear you found success in focusing on your social skills and not quitting even when you met people that you didn’t jive with. I found this to be true for me as well.
I really like what you said about gaming offering the easy reward. I completely agree! I think this may be part of why although I felt a certain level of fulfillment in gaming, it has been a different type of fulfillment than what I’ve found in achieving other goals in my life. Overall really enjoyed your post, thank you for the input. I’m saving this post for reference as a resource to share with others.
@ Drake - I understand this perspective. I think it really just comes down to whether the hobby is having a negative affect on your life or not. If it is, it’s important to take note and work on recalibrating.
@ SjPhotoGrapher - Thanks for the comment! If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear what other activities you found helpful in working on outside of gaming?
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyiSEonUFA
).
Alcoholism is actually different in terms of addiction if I remember correctly because it actually works primarily* on GABA receptors rather than dopamine receptors and after a period of abuse the body has a neuroregulatory correction tendency whereby it decreases the amount of GABA receptors in the body. This causes uncontrolled firing of the synapses when someone quits which can lead to seizures and all kinds of weird effects that result from random synapses firing because I think GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter on most parts of the body. There are other drugs of abuse that this happens with but they're mostly benzodiazepines and similar drugs. In that sense, the alcohol withdrawal is actually different from, say, a nicotine or an amphetamine withdrawal, mainly because you can actually die from cold turkey-ing alcohol.
The wikipedia page is enlightening and where I verified most of my information but I figured I'd distill it a bit because it's reaaaaaaaally long.
On October 29 2013 04:57 Colbert wrote: @ Ahzz - Thanks for sharing your story. I’m happy to hear you found success in focusing on your social skills and not quitting even when you met people that you didn’t jive with. I found this to be true for me as well.
I really like what you said about gaming offering the easy reward. I completely agree! I think this may be part of why although I felt a certain level of fulfillment in gaming, it has been a different type of fulfillment than what I’ve found in achieving other goals in my life. Overall really enjoyed your post, thank you for the input. I’m saving this post for reference as a resource to share with others.
@ Drake - I understand this perspective. I think it really just comes down to whether the hobby is having a negative affect on your life or not. If it is, it’s important to take note and work on recalibrating.
@ SjPhotoGrapher - Thanks for the comment! If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear what other activities you found helpful in working on outside of gaming?
It's no problem. The other activities that I found helpful outside of gaming have been things that require skill and can be social.
Things such as learning a musical instrument involve the attainment and growing of skill sets similar to games and they provide instant feedback in how well you can play a set song or or whatever you're trying to play/learn, you also make progress, and they can be social (as in playing in a band or with other people).
Personally, I found doing things that require skill that you can make progress in (and also make a living) are much more rewarding than gaming.
However, with that being said, I believe that gaming in moderation can still be attainable even to those that have addictive personality's such as me and you.
The key is to play games that are not social (single player games), come up with a daily schedule and reward yourself by playing the game(s) only when you have completed your daily tasks, and finally, to make sure that you do not play multiplayer games.
I now only play single player games and play maybe only 6 hours a week or less. I know for a fact that if I were to play multiplayer games again especially competitive ones that I would be back to playing 40+ hours a week because they are social, competitive, and there is no end to them like there are in single player games.
My advice would be to play single player PC games, pick up a console such as the 3DS or an older system, and play older single player games that require the use of your brain, are not social (no multiplayer), and games that have an actual ending.
Things that are more rewarding than playing any game for me though are playing a musical instrument, learning, photography, art, etc.
If you want to be great at anything that is competitive the problem is that you're going to sink a lot of hours into that competitive *sport*. This is the problem with games like CS, SC, WoW, etc......there is no ending, they are social, and they are competitive.
Tiger Woods, Michael Jordon, MVP, and the CS team Complexity all put in 40+ hours a week because it's mandatory when it comes to being at the apex of your chosen competitive activity. The great thing about single player games is that you can play 1-2 hours at night if you want to and there is no competition and your competitive nature won't kick in hence why most won't play more than a few hours at a time.
I have also yet to hear someone that plays 40+ hours a week of single player games that have no social interaction and are not competitive in nature in today's day and age (even though I am sure that there are people out there that do that.....the thing is that they have a different personality than me and you IE: they're not competitive)
Meditating is also helpful in getting away from game addiction. It's helpful to sit down with yourself and ask yourself why you want to be the best at some online video game and look at the end result and see if it's worth it.
People that meditate on it will more than likely come to the conclusion that it's not worth it because you don't make much money anyways, you're confining yourself to sitting down and staring at a monitor all day, and you're not doing anything to benefit those around you.
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyiSEonUFA
).
Alcoholism is actually different in terms of addiction if I remember correctly because it actually works primarily* on GABA receptors rather than dopamine receptors and after a period of abuse the body has a neuroregulatory correction tendency whereby it decreases the amount of GABA receptors in the body. This causes uncontrolled firing of the synapses when someone quits which can lead to seizures and all kinds of weird effects that result from random synapses firing because I think GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter on most parts of the body. There are other drugs of abuse that this happens with but they're mostly benzodiazepines and similar drugs. In that sense, the alcohol withdrawal is actually different from, say, a nicotine or an amphetamine withdrawal, mainly because you can actually die from cold turkey-ing alcohol.
The wikipedia page is enlightening and where I verified most of my information but I figured I'd distill it a bit because it's reaaaaaaaally long.
Then you quit in a medically sound way. I don't say you have to go cold turkey. When the addict makes a plan, you keep him stuck to that plan.
On October 28 2013 22:57 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - Yes absolutely. Do you agree that this is the same approach we should take for people who are “addicted” to video games?
@ SJPhotoGrapher - I definitely agree with you about the types of activities you can use to move on from games.
If there’s one thing I want to mention to people looking to take this type of task on, it would be to give each activity a chance before giving up.
I remember when I first started DJing it was incredibly hard and in fact, left me feeling discouraged because the learning curve was so steep. But looking back now, I’m glad I was able to push through that initial learning curve because DJing is one of my greatest passions today.
I can see how an approach of playing single player games that aren’t social could be doable. I currently play chess a few times a day online, mostly used as an activity I can do when I need a quick break or change of stimulation. I play 5 minute blitz games online so the benefit is that the game can only last 10 minutes and with the nature of chess, after 2-3 games you’re mentally tired and want to stop. I’ve found good value in this, because playing games was also a competitive outlet for me and chess has been able to fulfill this need.
I like your advice about meditation. Although it’s not a habit I would say I’ve nailed, it is something I strive for on a daily basis and I guess, in the very least, I have a heightened practice of mindful awareness in my every day life.
Thanks for your great input once again.
@ Jisall - I definitely agree with it. The nature of getting to that level of commitment is intriguing to me.
On October 29 2013 21:04 Colbert wrote: @ SJPhotoGrapher - I definitely agree with you about the types of activities you can use to move on from games.
If there’s one thing I want to mention to people looking to take this type of task on, it would be to give each activity a chance before giving up.
I remember when I first started DJing it was incredibly hard and in fact, left me feeling discouraged because the learning curve was so steep. But looking back now, I’m glad I was able to push through that initial learning curve because DJing is one of my greatest passions today.
I can see how an approach of playing single player games that aren’t social could be doable. I currently play chess a few times a day online, mostly used as an activity I can do when I need a quick break or change of stimulation. I play 5 minute blitz games online so the benefit is that the game can only last 10 minutes and with the nature of chess, after 2-3 games you’re mentally tired and want to stop. I’ve found good value in this, because playing games was also a competitive outlet for me and chess has been able to fulfill this need.
I like your advice about meditation. Although it’s not a habit I would say I’ve nailed, it is something I strive for on a daily basis and I guess, in the very least, I have a heightened practice of mindful awareness in my every day life.
Thanks for your great input once again.
@ Jisall - I definitely agree with it. The nature of getting to that level of commitment is intriguing to me.
It's got to come from within. Youtube people like Greg Plitt, Les Brown, and Eric Thomas.
Then lock out the outside world while you make your change, until your new activities become habits. You will find the world's tugging on you in every direction holds less sway.
On October 30 2013 13:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Les Brown is my favorite motivational speaker. Funny that you bring him up. I also really like Earl Nightingale and Napoleon Hill.
Les Brown is really good. I'll check those two out.
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyiSEonUFA
).
Alcoholism is actually different in terms of addiction if I remember correctly because it actually works primarily* on GABA receptors rather than dopamine receptors and after a period of abuse the body has a neuroregulatory correction tendency whereby it decreases the amount of GABA receptors in the body. This causes uncontrolled firing of the synapses when someone quits which can lead to seizures and all kinds of weird effects that result from random synapses firing because I think GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter on most parts of the body. There are other drugs of abuse that this happens with but they're mostly benzodiazepines and similar drugs. In that sense, the alcohol withdrawal is actually different from, say, a nicotine or an amphetamine withdrawal, mainly because you can actually die from cold turkey-ing alcohol.
The wikipedia page is enlightening and where I verified most of my information but I figured I'd distill it a bit because it's reaaaaaaaally long.
On October 28 2013 22:57 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - Yes absolutely. Do you agree that this is the same approach we should take for people who are “addicted” to video games?
You do whatever it takes.
I agree with you, we should all support anyone who decides that they want out of an addiction. That being said:
While I agree that addiction is generally bad, there are a lot of reasons which drive people to drink or do drugs or play video games. Sometimes it's an escape from reality, sometimes it's for pleasure, or whatever reason--that's not the point. The point is that it's not really anyone's place to decide but the individual's. Sure, I don't recommend abusing drugs or alcohol, but if the choice is between that or hurting people or actively killing themselves? I'd much rather have them in a state of functional addiction which can be treated than have anyone dead anywhere. That's a personal opinion of mine.
Video games in particular are not incredibly harmful compared to other potentially addictive activities or substances and I think that they are a healthy coping mechanism for many people. There is no reliable, agreed-upon criteria for "addiction" to video games and that's why I think it's important to recognize how subjective our views about it can be. Your definition of addiction might differ wildly from the person who you think is "addicted", and who's to say who's right?
BUT! We're in luck! The American Psychiatric Association has proposed criteria for Internet Gaming Disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 5th Edition under the "Conditions for Further Study" section, which may eventually become a part of the revisions to the manual at a later date. Here they are, for posterity:
Internet Gaming Disorder Proposed Criteria Persistent and recurrent use of the Internet to engage in games, often with other players, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress as indicated by five (or more) of the following in a 12-month period: 1. Preoccupation with Internet games. (The individual thinks about previous gaming activity or anticipates playing the next game; Internet gaming becomes the dominant activity in daily life.) Note: This disorder is distinct from Internet gambling, which is included under gambling disorder. 2. Withdrawal symptoms when Internet gaming is taken away. (These symptoms are typically described as irritability, anxiety, or sadness, but there are no physical signs of pharmacological withdrawal.) 3. Tolerance--the need to spend increasing amounts of time engaged in Internet games. 4. Unsuccessful attempts to control the participation in Internet games. 5. Loss of interests in previous hobbies and entertainment as a result of, and with the exception of, Internet games. 6. Continued excessive use of Internet games despite knowledge of psychosocial problems. 7. Has deceived family members, therapists, or others regarding the amount of Internet gaming. 8. Use of Internet games to escape or relieve a negative mood (e.g., feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety). 9. Has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of participation in Internet games. Note: Only nongambling Internet games are included in this disorder. Use of the Internet for required activities in a business or profession is not included; nor is the disorder intended to include other recreational or social Internet use. Similarly, sexual Internet sites are excluded. Specify current severity: Internet gaming disorder can be mild, moderate, or severe depending on the degree of disruption of normal activities. Individuals with less severe Internet gaming disorder may exhibit fewer symptoms and less disruption of their lives. Those with severe Internet gaming disorder will have more hours spent on the computer and more severe loss of relationships or career or school opportunities.
The manual further goes on to describe the PROPOSED disorder in more detail, listing Subtypes (none currently identified), Diagnostic Features, Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis, Prevalence ("seems highest in Asian countries and in male adolescents 12-20 years of age"), Risk and Prognostic Factors (Environmental; Genetic and physiological), Functional Consequences of Internet Gaming Disorder, Differential Diagnosis (social media use and porn are not considered analogous; excessive gambling online may qualify for a separate diagnosis of gambling disorder), and Comorbidity (Major Depressive Disorder, Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder).
Again, this is PROPOSED and has not been approved as the actual criteria or even if it is a disorder to be included in the DSM-5.x yet.
Also, in terms of clinical use, the DSM is never used as a cookbook--it is simply a manual to talk about individuals without having to describe all of their symptoms to other clinicians. Instead of saying "paranoid ideations, command hallucinations, unstable mood, flat affect, etc. etc. etc." we can just say "schizophrenic" or "schizoaffective" or "bipolar I with psychotic features" and it's easy to differentiate between someone whose psychotic symptoms occur only when their mood disorder flares up and someone who has no mood disorder but psychosis and someone who has permanent psychotic symptoms as well as an unrelated mood disorder. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN JUST LABEL SOMEONE WITH BECAUSE THEY MEET SYMPTOM REQUIREMENTS. IT IS ULTIMATELY THE CLINICIAN'S JUDGMENT. This manual just makes things easier to talk about with other people.
Personally, I disagree with their proposed criteria in multiple spots and think it needs a LOT of rewriting and revision!
Great info. I found some of it while I was preparing for a TV spot about whether gaming addiction was real or not, but this is a much more in-depth analysis of it.
I'd be curious ZERG_RUSSIAN where you disagree with the proposed criteria?
1. Preoccupation with Internet games. (The individual thinks about previous gaming activity or anticipates playing the next game; Internet gaming becomes the dominant activity in daily life.) 2. Withdrawal symptoms when Internet gaming is taken away. (These symptoms are typically described as irritability, anxiety, or sadness, but there are no physical signs of pharmacological withdrawal.) 5. Loss of interests in previous hobbies and entertainment as a result of, and with the exception of, Internet games. 8. Use of Internet games to escape or relieve a negative mood (e.g., feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety).
These four right here would make this diagnosis basically everyone on TL.net. I think the norms on gaming are changing and the DSM won't have clinical utility if this diagnosis applies to a ridiculous amount of people. I think that video game addiction is a real thing but this criteria is entirely too wide given the recent generational shifts in attitude towards video games as socialization, sport and recreation.
On November 02 2013 20:05 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: 1. Preoccupation with Internet games. (The individual thinks about previous gaming activity or anticipates playing the next game; Internet gaming becomes the dominant activity in daily life.) 2. Withdrawal symptoms when Internet gaming is taken away. (These symptoms are typically described as irritability, anxiety, or sadness, but there are no physical signs of pharmacological withdrawal.) 5. Loss of interests in previous hobbies and entertainment as a result of, and with the exception of, Internet games. 8. Use of Internet games to escape or relieve a negative mood (e.g., feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety).
These four right here would make this diagnosis basically everyone on TL.net. I think the norms on gaming are changing and the DSM won't have clinical utility if this diagnosis applies to a ridiculous amount of people. I think that video game addiction is a real thing but this criteria is entirely too wide given the recent generational shifts in attitude towards video games as socialization, sport and recreation.
I definitely agree they would need to be more specific, however I have a hard time believing those 4 aren't also major symptoms of potential gaming addiction - specifically when they relate to other addictions.
Am I wrong to think those 4 are common in other addictions as well?
On gaming being viewed as more of a sport/recreation:
In my own experience I would relate it to when I played elite level hockey for 15 years.
I certainly put in a lot of hours between practice, games and working out, but I never felt like it had a major pull on my thoughts (preoccupation), and although it was a major aspect of my day it certainly was never out of balance or caused other *major* negative affects in my life. I never experienced withdrawal symptoms, was still very interested in other activities (even welcomed them as a break from hockey), and I guess hockey helped when I was in a negative mood but it wasn't the primary focus during such episodes.
This was definitely NOT the same experience I had when it came to competitive gaming, of which I did truly approach the same way as hockey, except I definitely had all 4 of those points in my life during that time, and looking back I do think they were big warning signs that my gaming was no longer healthy.
Again, this was only my experience, although from the wealth of experience I've developed through the video game article and other mediums, it's hard for me to say others haven't experienced the same (at least with games, no idea about other sports.)
What type of language could we add to those 4 points that you believe would make it more specific and less general?
BTW - I really appreciate your input. I believe right now we are at the beginning of the research into gaming addiction and have an amazing opportunity as a gaming community to help shape the conversation AND the research (including what the final diagnosis will be).
It's rare that a community has this type of opportunity to make sure the research and all of that jazz is as authentic to the real issues as they are. This is one reason why I'm so inspired to help push the gaming community's message further. I guess in many ways, we owe it to the community, because as the DSM-5.x and other research is validated, it will have a profound impact on the community as a whole.
Anyway the issue I have is that those criteria apply to too much of the gaming population as a whole rather than just a specific subset of individuals who have a problem. For me it's like, DUH people are going to be irritable if you take their games away for no reason. Like someone said earlier, why wouldn't they spend their free time doing preferred activities? And of course they're used as an escape against boredom or anxiety or feeling bad in many ways. I think that is a good reason to play games, and for all the other ones I have similar issues.
Basically, if the criteria is too wide it has no use in distinguishing a person with actual psychopathology from someone who acts similarly but doesn't have a problem. Like, I'm sure 100% of schizophrenics breathe air and urinate, but does that distinguish them from people who are not schizophrenic? Not really.
However, I realize that I am biased in this area because I'm a monogamous gamer who plays a lot of one internet game. Still, I don't think I would call myself addicted or dependent or pathological over it. I think I could make a good case that I'm not even though I satisfy a lot of the criteria and I'm sure lots of other people on this forum could do the same.
We've managed to start a discussion about terminology when the speaker specifically tried to avoid that discussion by tackling the practical problem from a practical standpoint. Don't rush back to the Greek roots of such and such words when it detracts from the actual issues that the actual people are actually having.
The thing is that talking about video game addiction is detracting from the actual issues. You get 'addicted' to video games because you are lonely and have no friends, because you are bullied and do not like going out, because you have social anxiety, you are depressed, have no motivation, etc. Those underlying problems should be addressed, trying to quit video games is useless as fuck because the void that they filled up will still be there.
Pretty much this.
Any behavior or activity can become problematic when it impairs your ability to function in a variety of areas such as work, school, or socially. I have read dozens of peer reviewed journal articles on the topics of "Internet addiction" and "Video game addiction." The underlying message is generally that games are being used to avoid dealing with life issues or in the really extreme cases some people get so caught up in playing that they neglect basic necessities like food, water, using the bathroom, or sleeping. If you can do your job/do school work/have some form of a social life and still play video games 8 hours a day then you are functioning just fine and professional gamers can play even more hours per day because the game is their job.
Heck, if you are trying to treat someone with alcohol/drug problems and you do not address the underlying issues that led to the drug/alcohol use in the first place, then the person will either relapse or replace the drugs/alcohol with another problematic behavior.
On November 03 2013 08:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: No problem, it's an interesting thread .
Anyway the issue I have is that those criteria apply to too much of the gaming population as a whole rather than just a specific subset of individuals who have a problem. For me it's like, DUH people are going to be irritable if you take their games away for no reason. Like someone said earlier, why wouldn't they spend their free time doing preferred activities? And of course they're used as an escape against boredom or anxiety or feeling bad in many ways. I think that is a good reason to play games, and for all the other ones I have similar issues.
Basically, if the criteria is too wide it has no use in distinguishing a person with actual psychopathology from someone who acts similarly but doesn't have a problem. Like, I'm sure 100% of schizophrenics breathe air and urinate, but does that distinguish them from people who are not schizophrenic? Not really.
However, I realize that I am biased in this area because I'm a monogamous gamer who plays a lot of one internet game. Still, I don't think I would call myself addicted or dependent or pathological over it. I think I could make a good case that I'm not even though I satisfy a lot of the criteria and I'm sure lots of other people on this forum could do the same.
As a mental health professional and a pretty active gamer, I completely agree with your concerns. The thing to remember is that gaming must be having an adverse effect on some area of your life for it to be considered problematic. Sadness/grief is not a problem until it becomes depression. Alcohol use is not a problem until someone gets behind the wheel or gets drunk on a very regular basis. If you are playing games instead of doing your job/school work on a regular basis, then there is an issue. The social domain is where it gets tricky because being an introvert is not a problem with functioning, but being afraid of social settings is. If I were to get a client that was functioning well in school or a job but their social life might have some issues, then I would be very hesitant to diagnose the person unless they clearly had social anxiety or agoraphobia.
EDIT: Also, a good mental health professional will educate himself/herself on the issue before even thinking about diagnosing. If I see a child with all the symptoms of ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) that is still doing fine at home and school, then there is not yet a need to diagnose. If the child is having problems at home and school that have been ongoing for months or longer, then the diagnosis is warranted.
its funny that i fully understood english(since its not my native language) not because of education but rather from playing video when i was a child .. particularly Empire Earth, starcraft, warcraft 3,nox, battle realms .. they are my teachers lol
too much of something is damaging if you dont know how to manage time of course (who am i talking about this when i cant even manage my own time) .. i dont think its really bad when you know how to prioritize which is very difficult to be honest
Honestly, on second thought.....a gaming addiction might not be the problem. The problem might be that gaming is your calling and that you should figure out how to make a living doing it if you love it so much.
I don't buy into the whole "addiction" manual diagnoses as those are just another way to get Doctors to prescribe medications instead of fixing the core issue or because the person doesn't want to contribute to society by working a dead end 9-5 they consider it a "problem".
I suggest to the OP that he gets back into playing games and figures out how to make a living at what he loves to do. Ask yourself....without money being an issue, what would you love to do the most? If gaming is the answer, than it is what it is.....go pursue it.
You can become a gaming journalist, a streamer and eventually get to a pro level, a coach, a game designer, game tester, etc etc.
Tap into what you love to do and do it for a living. Most people don't know what they love to do in life, you do and you should tap into it.
On November 05 2013 11:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Honestly, on second thought.....a gaming addiction might not be the problem. The problem might be that gaming is your calling and that you should figure out how to make a living doing it if you love it so much.
I don't buy into the whole "addiction" manual diagnoses as those are just another way to get Doctors to prescribe medications instead of fixing the core issue or because the person doesn't want to contribute to society by working a dead end 9-5 they consider it a "problem".
I suggest to the OP that he gets back into playing games and figures out how to make a living at what he loves to do. Ask yourself....without money being an issue, what would you love to do the most? If gaming is the answer, than it is what it is.....go pursue it.
You can become a gaming journalist, a streamer and eventually get to a pro level, a coach, a game designer, game tester, etc etc.
Tap into what you love to do and do it for a living. Most people don't know what they love to do in life, you do and you should tap into it.
And then you have the thousands of entry level game industry guys who don't realize how awful of a business it is with high competition and long soul-sucking hours. Lots of people "love" games but I don't think you can necessarily say they all want or need a career out of it.
On November 05 2013 11:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Honestly, on second thought.....a gaming addiction might not be the problem. The problem might be that gaming is your calling and that you should figure out how to make a living doing it if you love it so much.
I don't buy into the whole "addiction" manual diagnoses as those are just another way to get Doctors to prescribe medications instead of fixing the core issue or because the person doesn't want to contribute to society by working a dead end 9-5 they consider it a "problem".
I suggest to the OP that he gets back into playing games and figures out how to make a living at what he loves to do. Ask yourself....without money being an issue, what would you love to do the most? If gaming is the answer, than it is what it is.....go pursue it.
You can become a gaming journalist, a streamer and eventually get to a pro level, a coach, a game designer, game tester, etc etc.
Tap into what you love to do and do it for a living. Most people don't know what they love to do in life, you do and you should tap into it.
And then you have the thousands of entry level game industry guys who don't realize how awful of a business it is with high competition and long soul-sucking hours. Lots of people "love" games but I don't think you can necessarily say they all want or need a career out of it.
Well than he should figure out whatever else he loves and go with that. That's if he believes that he can't make gaming his job by being either a pro level streamer, pro level gamer, or game reviewer.
On October 28 2013 05:02 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - I do agree with you that self-control is important and that focusing on taking responsibility for your life is a big step towards living the type of life you want. My question would be, what would be the best approach to help someone develop that self-control… or for instance, is simply telling an alcoholic to get some self-control going to help them stop drinking?
Ultimately the alcoholic has to want to quit. You can't force anybody to do anything, you can only light the path and show them that it is possible. And if they decide to try and overcome their addiction, be there for them. It is going to be a struggle-some time in the addicts life, if you care about them, you do not let them quit on themselves (+ Show Spoiler [Example from a Movie] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyiSEonUFA
).
Alcoholism is actually different in terms of addiction if I remember correctly because it actually works primarily* on GABA receptors rather than dopamine receptors and after a period of abuse the body has a neuroregulatory correction tendency whereby it decreases the amount of GABA receptors in the body. This causes uncontrolled firing of the synapses when someone quits which can lead to seizures and all kinds of weird effects that result from random synapses firing because I think GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter on most parts of the body. There are other drugs of abuse that this happens with but they're mostly benzodiazepines and similar drugs. In that sense, the alcohol withdrawal is actually different from, say, a nicotine or an amphetamine withdrawal, mainly because you can actually die from cold turkey-ing alcohol.
The wikipedia page is enlightening and where I verified most of my information but I figured I'd distill it a bit because it's reaaaaaaaally long.
Then you quit in a medically sound way. I don't say you have to go cold turkey. When the addict makes a plan, you keep him stuck to that plan.
On October 28 2013 22:57 Colbert wrote: @ Jisall - Yes absolutely. Do you agree that this is the same approach we should take for people who are “addicted” to video games?
You do whatever it takes.
I agree with you, we should all support anyone who decides that they want out of an addiction. That being said:
While I agree that addiction is generally bad, there are a lot of reasons which drive people to drink or do drugs or play video games. Sometimes it's an escape from reality, sometimes it's for pleasure, or whatever reason--that's not the point. The point is that it's not really anyone's place to decide but the individual's. Sure, I don't recommend abusing drugs or alcohol, but if the choice is between that or hurting people or actively killing themselves? I'd much rather have them in a state of functional addiction which can be treated than have anyone dead anywhere. That's a personal opinion of mine.
Video games in particular are not incredibly harmful compared to other potentially addictive activities or substances and I think that they are a healthy coping mechanism for many people. There is no reliable, agreed-upon criteria for "addiction" to video games and that's why I think it's important to recognize how subjective our views about it can be. Your definition of addiction might differ wildly from the person who you think is "addicted", and who's to say who's right?
BUT! We're in luck! The American Psychiatric Association has proposed criteria for Internet Gaming Disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 5th Edition under the "Conditions for Further Study" section, which may eventually become a part of the revisions to the manual at a later date. Here they are, for posterity:
Internet Gaming Disorder Proposed Criteria Persistent and recurrent use of the Internet to engage in games, often with other players, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress as indicated by five (or more) of the following in a 12-month period: 1. Preoccupation with Internet games. (The individual thinks about previous gaming activity or anticipates playing the next game; Internet gaming becomes the dominant activity in daily life.) Note: This disorder is distinct from Internet gambling, which is included under gambling disorder. 2. Withdrawal symptoms when Internet gaming is taken away. (These symptoms are typically described as irritability, anxiety, or sadness, but there are no physical signs of pharmacological withdrawal.) 3. Tolerance--the need to spend increasing amounts of time engaged in Internet games. 4. Unsuccessful attempts to control the participation in Internet games. 5. Loss of interests in previous hobbies and entertainment as a result of, and with the exception of, Internet games. 6. Continued excessive use of Internet games despite knowledge of psychosocial problems. 7. Has deceived family members, therapists, or others regarding the amount of Internet gaming. 8. Use of Internet games to escape or relieve a negative mood (e.g., feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety). 9. Has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of participation in Internet games. Note: Only nongambling Internet games are included in this disorder. Use of the Internet for required activities in a business or profession is not included; nor is the disorder intended to include other recreational or social Internet use. Similarly, sexual Internet sites are excluded. Specify current severity: Internet gaming disorder can be mild, moderate, or severe depending on the degree of disruption of normal activities. Individuals with less severe Internet gaming disorder may exhibit fewer symptoms and less disruption of their lives. Those with severe Internet gaming disorder will have more hours spent on the computer and more severe loss of relationships or career or school opportunities.
The manual further goes on to describe the PROPOSED disorder in more detail, listing Subtypes (none currently identified), Diagnostic Features, Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis, Prevalence ("seems highest in Asian countries and in male adolescents 12-20 years of age"), Risk and Prognostic Factors (Environmental; Genetic and physiological), Functional Consequences of Internet Gaming Disorder, Differential Diagnosis (social media use and porn are not considered analogous; excessive gambling online may qualify for a separate diagnosis of gambling disorder), and Comorbidity (Major Depressive Disorder, Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder).
Again, this is PROPOSED and has not been approved as the actual criteria or even if it is a disorder to be included in the DSM-5.x yet.
Also, in terms of clinical use, the DSM is never used as a cookbook--it is simply a manual to talk about individuals without having to describe all of their symptoms to other clinicians. Instead of saying "paranoid ideations, command hallucinations, unstable mood, flat affect, etc. etc. etc." we can just say "schizophrenic" or "schizoaffective" or "bipolar I with psychotic features" and it's easy to differentiate between someone whose psychotic symptoms occur only when their mood disorder flares up and someone who has no mood disorder but psychosis and someone who has permanent psychotic symptoms as well as an unrelated mood disorder. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN JUST LABEL SOMEONE WITH BECAUSE THEY MEET SYMPTOM REQUIREMENTS. IT IS ULTIMATELY THE CLINICIAN'S JUDGMENT. This manual just makes things easier to talk about with other people.
Personally, I disagree with their proposed criteria in multiple spots and think it needs a LOT of rewriting and revision!
Honestly as a mental health counselor and a gamer the main issue that I have with the proposed criteria is that someone could be diagnosed by simply having criteria 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8, which would basically slap anyone who plays games more than casually with a diagnosis. If they were to make it 6 of the following or make 4, 6, 7, and/or 9 required criteria ( as in you must have these symptoms to even be considered for a diagnosis), then I would not have a big issue.
Let's break down the issues with criteria 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8.
Criteria 1 describes anyone who has a favorite computer/video game or plays a variety of games on a more than casual basis. Almost everyone on Team Liquid would meet criteria 1.
Criteria 2 while normally withdrawal works great with drugs/alcohol as a criteria, what gamer isn't pissed off when the Internet goes out, the server to your favorite game goes down in the middle of your boss run, or the patch day maintenance that was supposed to take 2-3 hours has taken well over 6? Withdrawal is way too subjective with video games.
Criteria 3 another attempt to apply drug/alcohol criteria to gaming. The problem is that any properly engaging game with a decent difficulty curve encourages increased play as you progress through the game.
Criteria 5 implies the person had other hobbies/interests to be discarded in the first place or that someone who quits other hobbies to play computer/video games is suffering from depression.
Criteria 8: apparently being introverted or wanting to destress by playing video games is unhealthy.
Criteria 4, 6, 7, and 9 are the ones that differentiate an active gamer from someone that has real psychological issues that need to be addressed. All of these criteria show that the gaming is creating more problems for this person.
Absolutely ^, well said neotheone. I think 1 2 3 5 and 8 could be applied to almost any passion that anyone has. Be it fishing, jiu jitsu, knitting, sex etc. It's annoying when the mundane gets confused with the legitimately serious in these sorts of things.
On November 06 2013 00:21 sc4k wrote: Absolutely ^, well said neotheone. I think 1 2 3 5 and 8 could be applied to almost any passion that anyone has. Be it fishing, jiu jitsu, knitting, sex etc. It's annoying when the mundane gets confused with the legitimately serious in these sorts of things.
Exactly, back when I was in high school if Reading "Addiction" existed and had these same criteria, I would have been diagnosed with that. The thing is you can have 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8 and not have a single "impairment in functioning." Diagnoses are supposed to draw attention to impairments in functioning that need to be addressed. All the other criteria have a direct link to impairment in functioning.
When you met only 1 or 2 of those criteras, I don't think there is much of a problem, it's mostly when you can recognize yourself into at least 5 or 6 of them.
On November 06 2013 00:27 Lysteria wrote: When you met only 1 or 2 of those criteras, I don't think there is much of a problem, it's mostly when you can recognize yourself into at least 5 or 6 of them.
Except which criteria you meet is actually more important than the number. If someone meets just criteria 1 and 9, then there is still a significant issue because the gaming is hurting a relationship, school, or job. This is why I would change the wording to include that someone must have at least 1 if not 2 of the following from 4, 6, 7, and 9.
Ok I’m back after traveling through Poland the last few days. Again if anybody has any specific questions I’m happy to answer them.
General thoughts on the criteria: I’m extremely hesitant to want to encourage medical diagnosis when it comes to gaming if it entails giving people medication. I’m a strong believer in helping someone come to their own conclusion about wanting to move on from games and simply educating them on the underlying reasons why they play. I’ve found major success in helping people overcome this “addiction” by this simple formula. The whole medical diagnosis, encouraging a solution full of medication scares the shit out of me.
@ ZERG_RUSSIAN - I definitely understand. I guess the question comes down to what the line is between someone like yourself who is fine and someone who is not. The affect on your daily life and responsibilities is a major part of that in my opinion.
@ NEOtheONE - Thanks for commenting. I guess a big part of the equation is what’s the percentage of people who are doing fine in their life playing 8 hours a day and what’s the percentage of people who are not. I’m excited to see what the research will say over the next few years as people begin to take this “addiction” more seriously, but I do think there is certainly a large number of people who DO have a problem.
The underlying issues are definitely the thing you need to fix, it’s just a matter of identifying who has a problem and then how to fix it. I’ve seen this exact method work in the blog post I wrote on how to quit playing video games. People are searching for the answer to why they play so much (they literally google “how to quit playing video games”) and then the blog post shows them that the reason they play are for various underlying issues. Unfortunately, the awareness they have around what the underlying issues are (prior to reading the post) is not much.
In other words, they have a better chance of googling “how to quit playing video games” then they do of googling “how to make more friends"
When it comes to the ADHD argument, I guess for me it’s very tricky. I was “diagnosed” as ADHD because I couldn’t pay attention in school. But it had nothing to do with my ability to focus, and everything to do with the fact that I was straight up BORED at school because the curriculums were not interesting at all. On the contrary, I had absolutely no problem focusing on learning about entrepreneurship because it interested me.
@ goody153 - Thanks for your comment. Cool to hear it helped you learn English!
@ SjPhotoGrapher - I think this is a really fine line. The whole idea of gaming being your calling can be one of the biggest rationalizations of pursuing a lifestyle that is not healthy or serving you. In my opinion, I’m cautious around the idea of gaming being your calling because many people who are addicted have never had a chance to experience other hobbies. In my own particular experience, over the last 5 years of not playing games I’ve realized I never even cared much about the games, I cared about WHY I played the games. Now I do activities like DJ, travel and work on entrepreneurship… which in my own opinion have been much closer to my “calling” than video games were. Not that this is the case for everybody, but I think it’s important to be careful with that type of rationalization.
I do believe you should find what you love and go after it. I just don’t think it’s always what you “think” in the moment and it’s important to expand our horizons before dedicating our lives to the one thing we know.
On November 06 2013 21:52 Colbert wrote: Ok I’m back after traveling through Poland the last few days. Again if anybody has any specific questions I’m happy to answer them.
General thoughts on the criteria: I’m extremely hesitant to want to encourage medical diagnosis when it comes to gaming if it entails giving people medication. I’m a strong believer in helping someone come to their own conclusion about wanting to move on from games and simply educating them on the underlying reasons why they play. I’ve found major success in helping people overcome this “addiction” by this simple formula. The whole medical diagnosis, encouraging a solution full of medication scares the shit out of me.
@ ZERG_RUSSIAN - I definitely understand. I guess the question comes down to what the line is between someone like yourself who is fine and someone who is not. The affect on your daily life and responsibilities is a major part of that in my opinion.
@ NEOtheONE - Thanks for commenting. I guess a big part of the equation is what’s the percentage of people who are doing fine in their life playing 8 hours a day and what’s the percentage of people who are not. I’m excited to see what the research will say over the next few years as people begin to take this “addiction” more seriously, but I do think there is certainly a large number of people who DO have a problem.
The underlying issues are definitely the thing you need to fix, it’s just a matter of identifying who has a problem and then how to fix it. I’ve seen this exact method work in the blog post I wrote on how to quit playing video games. People are searching for the answer to why they play so much (they literally google “how to quit playing video games”) and then the blog post shows them that the reason they play are for various underlying issues. Unfortunately, the awareness they have around what the underlying issues are (prior to reading the post) is not much.
In other words, they have a better chance of googling “how to quit playing video games” then they do of googling “how to make more friends"
When it comes to the ADHD argument, I guess for me it’s very tricky. I was “diagnosed” as ADHD because I couldn’t pay attention in school. But it had nothing to do with my ability to focus, and everything to do with the fact that I was straight up BORED at school because the curriculums were not interesting at all. On the contrary, I had absolutely no problem focusing on learning about entrepreneurship because it interested me.
@ goody153 - Thanks for your comment. Cool to hear it helped you learn English!
@ SjPhotoGrapher - I think this is a really fine line. The whole idea of gaming being your calling can be one of the biggest rationalizations of pursuing a lifestyle that is not healthy or serving you. In my opinion, I’m cautious around the idea of gaming being your calling because many people who are addicted have never had a chance to experience other hobbies. In my own particular experience, over the last 5 years of not playing games I’ve realized I never even cared much about the games, I cared about WHY I played the games. Now I do activities like DJ, travel and work on entrepreneurship… which in my own opinion have been much closer to my “calling” than video games were. Not that this is the case for everybody, but I think it’s important to be careful with that type of rationalization.
I do believe you should find what you love and go after it. I just don’t think it’s always what you “think” in the moment and it’s important to expand our horizons before dedicating our lives to the one thing we know.
The important thing to remember when dealing with underlying issues of any type is that there are 2 words that are key. Insight and Judgment. Insight addresses someone's ability to recognize how he/she contributes to his/her own problems and Judgment covers the ability to make healthier decisions in the future. Like my Nintendo Rehabilitation Clinic t-shirt says, the first step is admitting you have a problem. Many people not functioning at "normal levels" have some insight into their problems, but when it comes to addiction and compulsions, judgment is what is usually lacking.
Honestly, I believe with proper diagnostic criteria the number of people with this "addiction" or compulsion is significantly smaller than what the current criteria would end up suggesting. I'm curious as to gamers' thoughts on differentiating between normal use and problem use. I know where I would draw the line as a counseling professional, but I want to see where you would draw the line.
On November 08 2013 06:55 NEOtheONE wrote: The important thing to remember when dealing with underlying issues of any type is that there are 2 words that are key. Insight and Judgment. Insight addresses someone's ability to recognize how he/she contributes to his/her own problems and Judgment covers the ability to make healthier decisions in the future. Like my Nintendo Rehabilitation Clinic t-shirt says, the first step is admitting you have a problem. Many people not functioning at "normal levels" have some insight into their problems, but when it comes to addiction and compulsions, judgment is what is usually lacking.
Honestly, I believe with proper diagnostic criteria the number of people with this "addiction" or compulsion is significantly smaller than what the current criteria would end up suggesting. I'm curious as to gamers' thoughts on differentiating between normal use and problem use. I know where I would draw the line as a counseling professional, but I want to see where you would draw the line.
I definitely agree with the difference between Insight and Judgment. I have a close cousin who's an alcoholic and I've experienced the lack of Judgment piece time and time again. It's been years of this back and forth.
Truthfully I'm unsure where I would draw the line. The medical diagnosis element of this is something I have little to no experience in.
One insight to consider is I know there will certainly be a difference in opinion on what a healthy level of gaming is between gamers and the rest of society. I can't say for a fact that either side has the right argument on this question either. Looking back to my own experience playing games and in the moment what I thought was a healthy amount, compared to now and the type of lifestyle I live, it's difficult to decipher exactly what a healthy amount is.
On November 08 2013 06:55 NEOtheONE wrote: The important thing to remember when dealing with underlying issues of any type is that there are 2 words that are key. Insight and Judgment. Insight addresses someone's ability to recognize how he/she contributes to his/her own problems and Judgment covers the ability to make healthier decisions in the future. Like my Nintendo Rehabilitation Clinic t-shirt says, the first step is admitting you have a problem. Many people not functioning at "normal levels" have some insight into their problems, but when it comes to addiction and compulsions, judgment is what is usually lacking.
Honestly, I believe with proper diagnostic criteria the number of people with this "addiction" or compulsion is significantly smaller than what the current criteria would end up suggesting. I'm curious as to gamers' thoughts on differentiating between normal use and problem use. I know where I would draw the line as a counseling professional, but I want to see where you would draw the line.
I definitely agree with the difference between Insight and Judgment. I have a close cousin who's an alcoholic and I've experienced the lack of Judgment piece time and time again. It's been years of this back and forth.
Truthfully I'm unsure where I would draw the line. The medical diagnosis element of this is something I have little to no experience in.
One insight to consider is I know there will certainly be a difference in opinion on what a healthy level of gaming is between gamers and the rest of society. I can't say for a fact that either side has the right argument on this question either. Looking back to my own experience playing games and in the moment what I thought was a healthy amount, compared to now and the type of lifestyle I live, it's difficult to decipher exactly what a healthy amount is.
And that is exactly the issue I see as well. Professional gamers play 10+ hours a day and that would still be considered functional because it is their job. But if a non-professional gamer plays that much it would automatically be labeled as impaired. The problem for professional gamers is that society at large would still try to label them as addicted despite their level of play still being functional from a mental health standpoint.
Amount of play time is simply not a relevant factor when used by itself, it has to be considered with the person's other responsibilities. Over the summer when I had finished my internship and all I had left to do for grad school was papers, I was playing 8+ hours a day and running a guild. As soon as I got a job, I started cutting down on play time and had someone else take over the guild. If I had tried to continue running the guild and playing as much as I was over the summer, then it would not have been functional.
On October 24 2013 07:26 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: I wonder though how much video game activity is ok. Because isn't it all a waste a time in the long run anyway?
Like some games I definitely just wasted countless hours playing. Starcraft I wasted a lot of time but it also led me to poker which led me to going places I never went before and meeting people I've never met. So I don't reall regret that at least.
every second you live is a waste of time. nothing matters in the long run.
I used to be kind of addicted to World of Warcraft. I'd play it in all my spare time. Then for some reason I started looking analystically at games like TB, and not just WoW. I eventually stopped playing, now play single player games from time to time but as my main game Starcraft.. And I don't see starcraft as an addiction because I watch/play it 6 hours a day. It's more of a passion. World of Warcraft: that was kind of an addiction. I wanted to paly, even though I made no progress that entire day. My friends were on there. Right now: Yes, I feel very comfortable behind my PC because it's what I'm very used to and like a lot, but Starcraft is a passion of mine, and not an addiction. Does anyone else feel this way?
On November 08 2013 06:55 NEOtheONE wrote: The important thing to remember when dealing with underlying issues of any type is that there are 2 words that are key. Insight and Judgment. Insight addresses someone's ability to recognize how he/she contributes to his/her own problems and Judgment covers the ability to make healthier decisions in the future. Like my Nintendo Rehabilitation Clinic t-shirt says, the first step is admitting you have a problem. Many people not functioning at "normal levels" have some insight into their problems, but when it comes to addiction and compulsions, judgment is what is usually lacking.
Honestly, I believe with proper diagnostic criteria the number of people with this "addiction" or compulsion is significantly smaller than what the current criteria would end up suggesting. I'm curious as to gamers' thoughts on differentiating between normal use and problem use. I know where I would draw the line as a counseling professional, but I want to see where you would draw the line.
I definitely agree with the difference between Insight and Judgment. I have a close cousin who's an alcoholic and I've experienced the lack of Judgment piece time and time again. It's been years of this back and forth.
Truthfully I'm unsure where I would draw the line. The medical diagnosis element of this is something I have little to no experience in.
One insight to consider is I know there will certainly be a difference in opinion on what a healthy level of gaming is between gamers and the rest of society. I can't say for a fact that either side has the right argument on this question either. Looking back to my own experience playing games and in the moment what I thought was a healthy amount, compared to now and the type of lifestyle I live, it's difficult to decipher exactly what a healthy amount is.
Well I don't believe in this whole "addiction" talk and trying to get around it. If someone loves gaming so much they should become a game journalist, professional gamer, streamer, etc etc.
Why try to run away from what you love? I'm sure that there are golfers, basketball players, etc etc that are all "addicted" to their games. Heck, I was addicted to skateboarding as a teenager.
Playing games doesn't have to be un healthly either. You can get one of those desks that make you stand up as you play or you can workout through the day.
I'd put money on it that you don't enjoy DJ'ing as much as you did playing SC2.
On November 10 2013 02:28 Thalandros wrote: I used to be kind of addicted to World of Warcraft. I'd play it in all my spare time. Then for some reason I started looking analystically at games like TB, and not just WoW. I eventually stopped playing, now play single player games from time to time but as my main game Starcraft.. And I don't see starcraft as an addiction because I watch/play it 6 hours a day. It's more of a passion. World of Warcraft: that was kind of an addiction. I wanted to paly, even though I made no progress that entire day. My friends were on there. Right now: Yes, I feel very comfortable behind my PC because it's what I'm very used to and like a lot, but Starcraft is a passion of mine, and not an addiction. Does anyone else feel this way?
I feel that way as well. I've always had a compassion towards competitive gaming.
I don't see anything wrong with it either. If someone games 8+ hours a day they obviously love it and should go after it it as their source of income as well.
Most of the people that are successful in life could be labeled as "addicts". Nobody got anywhere's "good" from being mediocre and doing something only a few hours a day, no way. You have to be obsessed in the words of the late Steve Jobs.
Also, what is a waste of time? Time is a man made concept. There is no "wasting time" if you love what you're doing. I can look back at my 10-16 hours days of gaming and have no regrets because I loved what I was doing playing CS all day. The only regret that I do have is not taking training more seriously and not streaming or making a name for myself. '
There are people that make a living with a website/blog where they talk about yarn. Who's to say someone can't do the same thing with gaming? There are many different facets to gaming and you can make a living doing it if you love it enough.
@ NEOtheONE - I definitely agree that play time is not a relevant factor on it’s own. Maybe one of the differences from your own experience would be their ability to adjust their play time as their life balance calls for. In your instance you were able to do it as your job situation changed, but I’m certain many of whom are” addicted” do struggle with this exact circumstance. I know my brother, Xzilend (he commented earlier) was in your same situation, and was easily able to adjust his play time based on other life priorities.
However in my own experience, I was not able to. I would find creative solutions to rid myself of these life responsibilities to expand the amount of time I could play, such as pretending to have a job as I explained in the video. I’m very curious as to how we can distinguish this.
@ Greenei - This is true. A fascinating book I read earlier this year is Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. In the end I came out of it with a full understanding that the only purpose in my life should be my own happiness. Now, this isn’t to say video games are that answer, as many may take it. It is my true belief that when *I* was playing video games I was having fun BUT I was not happy. This is a very key distinction.
This is absolutely NOT to insist that others are not happy playing games, because I’m certain there are many, I only mean to imply it’s important to be accountable to your own introspection on whether this is the case with you or not. It’s easy to justify “fun” as “happy” and it’s simply not the case.
@ Thalandros - Thanks for sharing. There can certainly be a fine line between addiction and passion. Where that line is, however, I’m not sure. NEOtheONE may have insight into this.
@ SjPhotoGrapher - Haha, you’d lose that money. I definitely enjoy DJing substantially more than SC. It’s a different type of stimulation though, and this is one of the big points I believe can be difficult for people to overcome when they play video games. The type of stimulation you get in games vs. other activities is different, and it takes time to recalibrate to it.
For instance, I can also say for a fact that when I went skydiving recently it was an experience that far exceeded anything I ever did in video games, but again, it was a different type of stimulation.
My last point is that as I’ve explained before, I think it’s worthwhile to caution those who are “passionate” about games to reflect on whether they’ve had the opportunity to experience other activities. In my own experience, video games were one of the sole activities I had growing up, and with the fastest growing age group in the US kids aged 2-5, it’s easy to see that many kids will not have the opportunity to try other activities before being introduced to games. This fact in combination with the type of stimulation you receive in games is important to identify. It’s easy to assume that games are the only thing you like when you haven’t had the opportunity to try other activities, with a truthful real intent. Just food for thought.
On November 10 2013 22:04 Colbert wrote: My last point is that as I’ve explained before, I think it’s worthwhile to caution those who are “passionate” about games to reflect on whether they’ve had the opportunity to experience other activities. In my own experience, video games were one of the sole activities I had growing up, and with the fastest growing age group in the US kids aged 2-5, it’s easy to see that many kids will not have the opportunity to try other activities before being introduced to games. This fact in combination with the type of stimulation you receive in games is important to identify. It’s easy to assume that games are the only thing you like when you haven’t had the opportunity to try other activities, with a truthful real intent. Just food for thought.
I agree to a certain extent. If it's absolutely what you love and you're willing to miss out on experiences, it might not be very wise, but if it's what you enjoy, go for it. Personally, I've had the luck that my parents (or atleast my father) has been very supportive of me experiencing a lot of stuff in the outside world - at my age of 16 I've been to the United States three times (My relatives do live there obviously), seen a lot of stuff in Europe, been to Gamescom, etc etc. I'm really enjoying my combination now, in how I spend my free time: All the ''boring'' time at home, outside of school but during normal week, i spend watching Starcraft, Playing starcraft, talking with friends, browsing TL & Reddit, and playing some single-player games on Steam. While once in a while during a weekend or holidays, I'll go somewhere and obviously, take opportunities to go to places I've not been, experience new experiences! It's not like I NEED to be behind a computer. When I last visited the US I didn't touch a keyboard for about 2.5 weeks, perfectly fine. But as said, during my ''boring'' free time I spend as much time as I can/want behind a PC because of three reasons:
1. I feel comfortable. I'm established here 2. I don't feel I'm a typical High-School kid - I don't enjoy going out and drinking excessively much as much as my classmates do, or have that drive to have as many relationships as possible, if you get what I mean! A lot of the stuff my classmates do I actually just find childish or uninteresting, so I ''resort'' to PC gaming 3. It's a buttload of fun. I enjoy most of my time playing games and discussing them. It's grown to be a passion.
That said I do think it's unhealthy if you're ''only'' interested in sitting behind your screen playing games. As long as you have other interests or activities on the side, whatever they may be it's always good to have variation and not be tunnelvision'd.
On October 24 2013 06:53 unkkz wrote: Video game addiction does not exist simply be cause video games is not a single thing to be addicted to. Is it the social aspect? Sense of accomplishment? The actual gameplay? The need to collect stuff? Etc. I have interviewed psychologists that treat people with video game problems and that is what they say for one.
Bullshit. Any good psychologist would tell you that a person, if predisposed, with the correct genes, can and usually will find their addiction of choice and love it. And yes you can basically be addicted to anything.
To put it simply, addiction is defined by its consequences. If you have problems with finances, family, friends, health, etc. etc. as a result of staying home to play games even though you may know that you should not be playing them yet still do. That is definitely defined as addiction. (remember there are gamers reported in the news who died from overgaming etc)
BOT, I think the op video sort of missed the mark on the insight and understanding. It was more of a personal struggle story that, no doubt, he is still dealing with. Trying to rationalize it. Common for addicts to do.
On October 24 2013 07:28 obesechicken13 wrote: I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him.
Well, whatever it may be the advice he gives is what people in the addiction community call 'white knuckling', where you quit cold turkey with no help or group/sponsor to help and guide you. It can work, often after many relapse, but even if you do it fucks with your emotional well being, depression, anxiety, anger, etc.
On October 24 2013 07:28 Thorakh wrote: You get 'addicted' to video games because you are lonely and have no friends, because you are bullied and do not like going out, because you have social anxiety, you are depressed, have no motivation, etc. Those underlying problems should be addressed, trying to quit video games is useless as fuck because the void that they filled up will still be there.
That's pretty common with any addiction. Childhood traumas, abuse, victimization, etc. That's part of the treatment in addiction because it is so common, and why a lot of treatment doesn't involve drugs or medicines. It involves therapy and management techniques.
Also, there are many people who look fine on paper and are still addicts as well. They don't have a void' to fill, by your definition, so should we let them continue their addiction until it becomes a problem? (this is actually a highly controversial issue)
PS- Video games as a whole are not good/bad. In the same way drugs are not good/bad. It just depends on the person, application, doseage, etc. Every person knows opiates are very very good at highjacking the brain receptors and drive functions and can kill you (overdose/infections/suicide), but no one in their right mind would try and ban them outright because they are highly useful and productive when properly managed. For 1, there is no single better thing for acute pain with zero lasting side effects to the body/mind than something like morphine. Even heroin as a drug won't cause any long term side effects or kill you if properly/safely taken.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
His blog post is a guide to quit playing video games forever.
He does state it's only for people who want to quit forever though.
My problem with a lot of Ted talks is how everyone is so accepting of whatever the speaker says. The applause from your peers serves to make you want to fit in so you agree with them. It almost feels like a brainwashing session. I know that attending Ted talks is voluntary, but then again so is joining a cult.
Ted isn't a cult. But I just can't shake the feeling. I feel like the people who enjoy Ted, while not "weak", had a childhood where they were bullied or at least weren't popular and had to find solace in being smart or at least different. They like hearing about research and discussing ideas. They like to think they work to improve the world and that money isn't their primary incentive.
The more you watch Ted, the less you're able to disagree wtih Ted because your beliefs are changed by the things that you hear regardless of whether you agree with them.
If this were a Starcraft Ted talk, you'd hear how bogus what he's saying really is. The speaker is not preaching divine truth. He's trying to turn a profit. Addiction is a serious illness and you don't beat it by picking up a guitar and saying "I'll just play guitar from now on instead of gaming" like he did in his blog. You need outside help.
To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
@ Thalandros - Exactly. I do think new experiences also entail other hobbies, but in your situation it sounds like everything is fine. I’m assuming games aren’t negatively impacting your grades or other responsibilities?
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
@ thezanursic - Thanks for your input.
@ SjPhotoGrapher - This is where you are fundamentally wrong:
The person I am speaking to in my article and my talk is someone who is addicted to playing video games and because of that is NOT happy.
I mean, take 2 minutes to read through the comments on the article and you’ll see very clearly: “I’m depressed playing games.” “I hate myself for continuing to play.” “I just want to stop and do something else.”
They AREN’T HAPPY.
And deserve help.
I also think it’s incredibly optimistic to consider that “all” of the greats in our society were addicts.
I also am absolutely not addicted to DJing. It’s been an activitiy that has replaced gaming except it’s entirely healthy and certainly a passion. That didn’t happen overnight but it’s without a doubt the case now. As an example, I’m currently traveling around Europe for 2 months and I have no access to my gear. I miss it but it hasn’t “negatively” impacted my life in any way.
Sorry to say but you’re off base on this. I understand the angle you’re pursuing but it’s simply not true.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
It's been discussed to death about video game addiction - there is no such thing as that. Some guys are 'addicted' to playing basketball, parents encourage them to play as much as possible. Some girl is addicted/obsessed to some guy, people call it 'love'. Someone 'addicted' to drawing/playing music, society call that creativity.
Playing video game is unproductive but it is just like 99% of all the hobbies out there, 99% of the people are not going to be a NBA player or famous soccer. We are just living in a different era/generation, just that some people see that playing video game differently. A hobby is a hobby, excessive use of anything can be bad. As soon as one knows how to manage his time to do his work/study, i don't see any problem in anyone doing anything.
On November 14 2013 09:14 BurningSera wrote: It's been discussed to death about video game addiction - there is no such thing as that. Some guys are 'addicted' to playing basketball, parents encourage them to play as much as possible. Some girl is addicted/obsessed to some guy, people call it 'love'. Someone 'addicted' to drawing/playing music, society call that creativity.
Playing video game is unproductive but it is just like 99% of all the hobbies out there, 99% of the people are not going to be a NBA player or famous soccer. We are just living in a different era/generation, just that some people see that playing video game differently. A hobby is a hobby, excessive use of anything can be bad. As soon as one knows how to manage his time to do his work/study, i don't see any problem in anyone doing anything.
I agree with you 100%.
If someone was addicted to living a normal life and working a 9-5 and doing things in between that regular people do well than, they are an addict to living a normal life style.
If someone was addicted to working or being a good parent they also wouldn't be considered "addicts".
I also don't believe in this concept of things being a "waste of time", again, time is a man made concept, it does not exist in reality. How can one waste something that never existed in the first place?
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
@Photographer I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with ADHD aswell. It wasnt because I like playing video games, my doctor even said that video games dont cause my symptoms Im basically just trying to say that not all doctors believe that. My doctors diagnosis was because I couldnt sit still for more than 20 minutes, and I was incredibly easily distracted (to the point that it was hard to do my job) I have also been suffering from major depressive disorder (related to break-ups and I was predisposed) My doctor has always argued that video games were a way to relieve stress, and if they became stressful, then it was a problem
These are really excellent discussions of video game addiction or compulsion. If you only watch one watch the second one, it's long but it's really powerful. The writer for extra credits goes on camera and just talks for 20 minutes about how he had been addicted to video games and the very real effects it had had on his life, but he also emphasizes that it always can get better and as he says "the real world welcomes you back".
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
I was only "diagnosed" with ADHD by school teachers and the school wanted to have me put on Ritilin. This was because I found school to be boring and mundane. Later on, I found out that they were diagnosing kids and telling them to see a Dr to be put on medication because the school systems were receiving kickbacks for doing so.
So I'm not actually ADD or ADHD, I just found school very boring.
Also, science now a days isn't just about finding problems, it's also about making stuff up (theories) and abusing the system by coming up with all of these new so called "illnesses".
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
@Photographer I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with ADHD aswell. It wasnt because I like playing video games, my doctor even said that video games dont cause my symptoms Im basically just trying to say that not all doctors believe that. My doctors diagnosis was because I couldnt sit still for more than 20 minutes, and I was incredibly easily distracted (to the point that it was hard to do my job) I have also been suffering from major depressive disorder (related to break-ups and I was predisposed) My doctor has always argued that video games were a way to relieve stress, and if they became stressful, then it was a problem
Just my 2cents
You probably don't have ADHD though. Maybe you can't sit still because you like to be productive or have a vitamin/mineral deficiency. It has been shown that someone can cure their so called "ADHD" with meditation, Omega 3 intake, a long with other vitamin/minerals.
I would never take a medication for any of these problems though. The side effects are crazy and all of these problems can be fixed on your own or with the help of someone else, not with medication. Medication is only a bandaid.
Only a few medications actually fix the problem (think antibiotics), all other medications mask the problem.
On November 14 2013 09:14 BurningSera wrote: It's been discussed to death about video game addiction - there is no such thing as that. Some guys are 'addicted' to playing basketball, parents encourage them to play as much as possible. Some girl is addicted/obsessed to some guy, people call it 'love'. Someone 'addicted' to drawing/playing music, society call that creativity.
Playing video game is unproductive but it is just like 99% of all the hobbies out there, 99% of the people are not going to be a NBA player or famous soccer. We are just living in a different era/generation, just that some people see that playing video game differently. A hobby is a hobby, excessive use of anything can be bad. As soon as one knows how to manage his time to do his work/study, i don't see any problem in anyone doing anything.
Everything in moderation though. Some people are "addicted" to their jobs. It's called workaholism and it's a legitimate problem that destroys people's families. And for the people that are constantly glued to a screen, a brain scan shows the same type of patterns shown in someone addicted to drugs/alcohol.After a certain point any activity/behavior can cross into the territory of addiction/compulsion. Excessive handwashing, hoarding, cleaning, keeping everything organized all are symptoms of OCD. When the behavior/activity starts affecting the rest of your life in an obviously negative fashion, then you need to get help. And with a lot of these issues, medicine is not the answer; and a good mental health professional will be addressing the issues that led to the person becoming obsessed.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
FYI an MD can have experience or specialization in psychiatry. Psychiatrists are MDs. And how can we diagnose anything unrelated to our field? What disease ISN'T related to the mental health/medical field? Like, by definition, a disease is part of that.
The people who have no experience and are diagnosing things unrelated to their field are those holistic healers you're telling people to go see.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
I was only "diagnosed" with ADHD by school teachers and the school wanted to have me put on Ritilin. This was because I found school to be boring and mundane. Later on, I found out that they were diagnosing kids and telling them to see a Dr to be put on medication because the school systems were receiving kickbacks for doing so.
So I'm not actually ADD or ADHD, I just found school very boring.
Also, science now a days isn't just about finding problems, it's also about making stuff up (theories) and abusing the system by coming up with all of these new so called "illnesses".
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
@Photographer I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with ADHD aswell. It wasnt because I like playing video games, my doctor even said that video games dont cause my symptoms Im basically just trying to say that not all doctors believe that. My doctors diagnosis was because I couldnt sit still for more than 20 minutes, and I was incredibly easily distracted (to the point that it was hard to do my job) I have also been suffering from major depressive disorder (related to break-ups and I was predisposed) My doctor has always argued that video games were a way to relieve stress, and if they became stressful, then it was a problem
Just my 2cents
You probably don't have ADHD though. Maybe you can't sit still because you like to be productive or have a vitamin/mineral deficiency. It has been shown that someone can cure their so called "ADHD" with meditation, Omega 3 intake, a long with other vitamin/minerals.
I would never take a medication for any of these problems though. The side effects are crazy and all of these problems can be fixed on your own or with the help of someone else, not with medication. Medication is only a bandaid.
Only a few medications actually fix the problem (think antibiotics), all other medications mask the problem.
God you are incredibly opinionated in a field where you have NO KNOWLEDGE.
There's so much wrong with your posts. You can't be diagnosed with a mental health disorder by a teacher, they can only provide the behavioral observations in school. Do you have any evidence for the claim that your school was getting kickbacks for referrals or are you just making shit up like the rest of your post is? Addicts are not addicts because they have a bipolar spectrum disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder; there's a high comorbidity but there's also a high comorbidity with breathing air. Can you even name "most mental diseases" that you claim are "not diseases"?
ADHD is a developmental delay or deficit in the cortical maturation of the brain that MUST happen before the age of 12. If you compare the physical size of the brain of an individual with ADHD and a control there is a marked difference in the physical size of many brain structures--primarily the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for executive function (or stuff like ability to delay gratification, attention, reward--stuff that people with ADHD struggle with).
This isn't shit you can "cure" or "fix" because it's just a lack or delay in development that was supposed to happen at a certain age.
We can TREAT it pharmacologically. The therapeutic effect of methylphenidate (ritalin) and amphetamine (adderall) is twofold--it treats the symptoms and, probably more importantly, over a long period of time it actually has been found to enlarge some of the areas which are underdeveloped. In normal people this produces abnormally large brain structures. In children with ADHD it makes parts of their brains look normal.
Just because YOU THINK someone misdiagnosed you once doesn't mean you're an expert on psychology, psychiatry, or ADHD. You're spreading misinformation and personal bias as fact, and it's against medical opinion.
STOP POSTING OUT OF YOUR ASS, YOU'RE NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
[edit] Okay, I took a deep breath and I calmed down. I would like to take this opportunity to dispel any of your paranoid beliefs based on bias and misinformation. Please ask me about anything you think is wrong with the practice of mental health and I'll do my best to explain it to you without condescending or insulting you further UNLESS you keep posting like you have been, in which case I'll probably mix insults in because I'm very passionate about the field I'm getting my doctorate in. [/edit]
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
I was only "diagnosed" with ADHD by school teachers and the school wanted to have me put on Ritilin. This was because I found school to be boring and mundane. Later on, I found out that they were diagnosing kids and telling them to see a Dr to be put on medication because the school systems were receiving kickbacks for doing so.
So I'm not actually ADD or ADHD, I just found school very boring.
Also, science now a days isn't just about finding problems, it's also about making stuff up (theories) and abusing the system by coming up with all of these new so called "illnesses".
On November 15 2013 04:44 Maasked wrote:
On November 14 2013 18:39 KosQ wrote:
On November 14 2013 09:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
On November 14 2013 08:36 KosQ wrote:
On November 14 2013 05:26 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
On November 14 2013 00:55 NEOtheONE wrote:
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
@Photographer I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with ADHD aswell. It wasnt because I like playing video games, my doctor even said that video games dont cause my symptoms Im basically just trying to say that not all doctors believe that. My doctors diagnosis was because I couldnt sit still for more than 20 minutes, and I was incredibly easily distracted (to the point that it was hard to do my job) I have also been suffering from major depressive disorder (related to break-ups and I was predisposed) My doctor has always argued that video games were a way to relieve stress, and if they became stressful, then it was a problem
Just my 2cents
You probably don't have ADHD though. Maybe you can't sit still because you like to be productive or have a vitamin/mineral deficiency. It has been shown that someone can cure their so called "ADHD" with meditation, Omega 3 intake, a long with other vitamin/minerals.
I would never take a medication for any of these problems though. The side effects are crazy and all of these problems can be fixed on your own or with the help of someone else, not with medication. Medication is only a bandaid.
Only a few medications actually fix the problem (think antibiotics), all other medications mask the problem.
God you are incredibly opinionated in a field where you have NO KNOWLEDGE.
There's so much wrong with your posts. You can't be diagnosed with a mental health disorder by a teacher, they can only provide the behavioral observations in school. Do you have any evidence for the claim that your school was getting kickbacks for referrals or are you just making shit up like the rest of your post is? Addicts are not addicts because they have a bipolar spectrum disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder; there's a high comorbidity but there's also a high comorbidity with breathing air. Can you even name "most mental diseases" that you claim are "not diseases"?
ADHD is a developmental delay or deficit in the cortical maturation of the brain that MUST happen before the age of 12. If you compare the physical size of the brain of an individual with ADHD and a control there is a marked difference in the physical size of many brain structures--primarily the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for executive function (or stuff like ability to delay gratification, attention, reward--stuff that people with ADHD struggle with).
This isn't shit you can "cure" or "fix" because it's just a lack or delay in development that was supposed to happen at a certain age.
We can TREAT it pharmacologically. The therapeutic effect of methylphenidate (ritalin) and amphetamine (adderall) is twofold--it treats the symptoms and, probably more importantly, over a long period of time it actually has been found to enlarge some of the areas which are underdeveloped. In normal people this produces abnormally large brain structures. In children with ADHD it makes parts of their brains look normal.
Just because YOU THINK someone misdiagnosed you once doesn't mean you're an expert on psychology, psychiatry, or ADHD. You're spreading misinformation and personal bias as fact, and it's against medical opinion.
STOP POSTING OUT OF YOUR ASS, YOU'RE NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
[edit] Okay, I took a deep breath and I calmed down. I would like to take this opportunity to dispel any of your paranoid beliefs based on bias and misinformation. Please ask me about anything you think is wrong with the practice of mental health and I'll do my best to explain it to you without condescending or insulting you further UNLESS you keep posting like you have been, in which case I'll probably mix insults in because I'm very passionate about the field I'm getting my doctorate in. [/edit]
Go on and continue being a slave to the system believing that prescribing medications "fixes" problems and a layman came along and pointed out that medications are basically band aids in pill form.
Yes it's true that ADD/ADHD can be cured through natural means such as meditating, taking supplements, and exercising a long with reading. The mind can grow at any age.
By the way, you may say that you're an MD but anyone can say they're anything....after all, this is the internet.
You're just angry because you're a slave working under a system that is corrupt, can;t blame you for that.
Also, most MD's don't specialize in psychiatry. if you had half a brain you would know that most physicians don't specialize and if you go to a clinic most of the MD's are not specialists nor psychiatrists and they will prescribe patients mental health based medications.
^ Can we stop derailing this thread with the anti-medicine agenda? Getting really sick of this nonsense Take it to private messages and stop turning a good discussion about video game "addiction" into an agenda.
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
I was only "diagnosed" with ADHD by school teachers and the school wanted to have me put on Ritilin. This was because I found school to be boring and mundane. Later on, I found out that they were diagnosing kids and telling them to see a Dr to be put on medication because the school systems were receiving kickbacks for doing so.
So I'm not actually ADD or ADHD, I just found school very boring.
Also, science now a days isn't just about finding problems, it's also about making stuff up (theories) and abusing the system by coming up with all of these new so called "illnesses".
On November 15 2013 04:44 Maasked wrote:
On November 14 2013 18:39 KosQ wrote:
On November 14 2013 09:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
On November 14 2013 08:36 KosQ wrote:
On November 14 2013 05:26 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
On November 14 2013 00:55 NEOtheONE wrote:
On November 13 2013 11:49 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: To be honest I knew that the OP was in on it for the money all a long and is trying to turn a profit......
As someone that has read a ton of books about marketing and runs two businesses applying said knowledge, public speaking is up there with getting publicized in the news when it comes to marketing and generating leads/business.
Someone with an addictive personality will just go from being addicted to video games to being addicted to DJing or playing the guitar. It's that simple.
Heck, all of the greats in our history were all addicts. Albert Einstein was addicted to science, it's only when you don't contribute to society with that "addiction" that the medical community is quick to diagnose it as a problem and make a buck on it prescribing Prozac among other things.
If someone wants to be addicted to video games....let them. At least they're enjoying something. If they want to quit their "addiction" badly enough they will let it go on their own terms. Chances are they will become addicted to something else however.
It's also noteworthy to note that most "addicts" are "addicts" because they are "bipolar" or have "ADD". The reason why I quote both of these things is that I believe that both can be corrected through meditation and diet/vitamins and are blown out by the medical industry as to who has them.
Statements like these are why people who need actual mental health help are reluctant to get the help they need. Please take the time to actually learn about how good mental health professionals do their job before making any more gross assumptions. Also, the medical community and the mental health community are two distinct entities. The medical community should not be diagnosing mental heath issues just as much as the mental health professionals should not diagnose physical issues/diseases.
Too bad that the mental health/medical health community do diagnose things unrelated to their field.
Go to a MD with depression and you will be prescribed anti depressants guaranteed.
Also I don't believe in medical care when it comes to mental health or physical health, to those in the field it's all about the money, making quick diagnoses, and getting kick backs from prescribing medications.
Those that have "mental health" problems should go see a holistic healer and rely on meditation instead of medication to get themselves back on track.
So basically you don't "believe" in science? Or why else would you put "mental health" problems in quotation marks and suggest that mental health problems should be treated with meditation instead of scientific methods. If that is the case, there is no real point in further discussion tbh.
Science is a man made concept, just an understanding of what the universe, God, or whatever entity outside of the universe out of this reality set in place to get everything moving along sort of like how a game is just a programmed construct with rules set in place.
Also, I put quotation marks around mental health because most of the mental "diseases" out there are truly not disease and are just ways for big pharma to make more money.
I don't even watch TV but big pharma already owns the commercials on National Television. The last time that I checked they have a new "disorder" called late shift syndrome or some BS like that and they have prescription pills for those with this so called condition.
I was also diagnosed as having ADHD at the age of 8 and my mom refused to let them put me on Ritalin thank God.
Like I said, if you do not follow the social standard of wanting to be a robot and asleep like most people working a 9-5 "they" will find a diagnosis for you and will put you on pills to make money and get you back on the road to making more money for the system......that's just the way things work.
If you play video games too much because you enjoy them most doctors will prescribe you an SSRI or ADD medication (or both) and say that it's a sign of depression, anxiety, or ADHD, bipolar, etc etc.
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
After hearing that you were diagnosed with ADHD, I can actually see where your opinion is coming from. I won't disagree with the statement, that there are many people out there just for the money - as in most other areas. Do you happen to live in the USA? I have never seen commercials that want to sell anything other than headache medicine where I live.
My problem though is that you seem to be linking the misbehaviour and greediness of the medical industry which, ultimately, wants to make a profit for their shareholders/themselves to the scientific method of solving problems. I agree that in many fields, especially in medicine and the treatment of mental disorders, it is far from complete. But, and I think this is important, it is best way to achieve real solutions or at least an understandment of the topic. It uses, e.g. in the field of medicine, large groups of people to verify or disprove the effect of an agent and is always open for new input and criticism.
I think it comes down to: Science only finds solutions to problems (e.g. if you can't concentrate, x and y are proven to achieve the best results with our understanding so far), how and in what cases you use this knowledge is a seperate field and, especially in the cases you are describing, have much to do with society/social standards and what type of doctor you come to.
@Photographer I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with ADHD aswell. It wasnt because I like playing video games, my doctor even said that video games dont cause my symptoms Im basically just trying to say that not all doctors believe that. My doctors diagnosis was because I couldnt sit still for more than 20 minutes, and I was incredibly easily distracted (to the point that it was hard to do my job) I have also been suffering from major depressive disorder (related to break-ups and I was predisposed) My doctor has always argued that video games were a way to relieve stress, and if they became stressful, then it was a problem
Just my 2cents
You probably don't have ADHD though. Maybe you can't sit still because you like to be productive or have a vitamin/mineral deficiency. It has been shown that someone can cure their so called "ADHD" with meditation, Omega 3 intake, a long with other vitamin/minerals.
I would never take a medication for any of these problems though. The side effects are crazy and all of these problems can be fixed on your own or with the help of someone else, not with medication. Medication is only a bandaid.
Only a few medications actually fix the problem (think antibiotics), all other medications mask the problem.
God you are incredibly opinionated in a field where you have NO KNOWLEDGE.
There's so much wrong with your posts. You can't be diagnosed with a mental health disorder by a teacher, they can only provide the behavioral observations in school. Do you have any evidence for the claim that your school was getting kickbacks for referrals or are you just making shit up like the rest of your post is? Addicts are not addicts because they have a bipolar spectrum disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder; there's a high comorbidity but there's also a high comorbidity with breathing air. Can you even name "most mental diseases" that you claim are "not diseases"?
ADHD is a developmental delay or deficit in the cortical maturation of the brain that MUST happen before the age of 12. If you compare the physical size of the brain of an individual with ADHD and a control there is a marked difference in the physical size of many brain structures--primarily the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for executive function (or stuff like ability to delay gratification, attention, reward--stuff that people with ADHD struggle with).
This isn't shit you can "cure" or "fix" because it's just a lack or delay in development that was supposed to happen at a certain age.
We can TREAT it pharmacologically. The therapeutic effect of methylphenidate (ritalin) and amphetamine (adderall) is twofold--it treats the symptoms and, probably more importantly, over a long period of time it actually has been found to enlarge some of the areas which are underdeveloped. In normal people this produces abnormally large brain structures. In children with ADHD it makes parts of their brains look normal.
Just because YOU THINK someone misdiagnosed you once doesn't mean you're an expert on psychology, psychiatry, or ADHD. You're spreading misinformation and personal bias as fact, and it's against medical opinion.
STOP POSTING OUT OF YOUR ASS, YOU'RE NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
[edit] Okay, I took a deep breath and I calmed down. I would like to take this opportunity to dispel any of your paranoid beliefs based on bias and misinformation. Please ask me about anything you think is wrong with the practice of mental health and I'll do my best to explain it to you without condescending or insulting you further UNLESS you keep posting like you have been, in which case I'll probably mix insults in because I'm very passionate about the field I'm getting my doctorate in. [/edit]
I feel the same way. I have my master of arts in counseling and when people push an anti-mental health profession agenda I get peeved.
I am not a medical doctor. I am obtaining my doctorate of clinical psychology.
You are not reading what I am posting. You can't "fix" ADHD through any means because it's a lack of development. There's nothing wrong that can be fixed. The only thing you can do for it is compensate. The brain doesn't grow like it does when you're a child just because you meditate or take fish oil. I don't know who told you that or where you got the idea that everyone can just meditate themselves into a bigger brain.
I don't think or feel like I'm a slave to anything. It seems like you are a slave to your paranoid delusions, though. You should seek therapy.
On November 17 2013 07:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I am not a medical doctor. I am obtaining my doctorate of clinical psychology.
You are not reading what I am posting. You can't "fix" ADHD through any means because it's a lack of development. There's nothing wrong that can be fixed. The only thing you can do for it is compensate. The brain doesn't grow like it does when you're a child just because you meditate or take fish oil. I don't know who told you that or where you got the idea that everyone can just meditate themselves into a bigger brain.
I don't think or feel like I'm a slave to anything. It seems like you are a slave to your paranoid delusions, though. You should seek therapy.
So you're going to school for something useless.
Just google curing ADHD naturally and you get these results.
"Not only is Ritalin not effective for long-term use, negative side effects like stunting one’s growth and addiction risk should be considered. The DEA classifies Ritalin as a “Schedule II” drug, meaning a prescription drug with the highest possible potential for abuse.
Growing awareness of the efficacy and side effects of ADHD prescription drugs has led some doctors and parents focusing more on natural alternatives for treatment. Studies have found validity in the use of certain dietary supplements, and suggest that deficiency in certain vitamins and minerals may contribute to ADHD symptoms. In particular, magnesium, vitamin B6, and omega-3 fatty acids have been highlighted.
Some experts believe the effects of mild magnesium deficiency may be represented in children with ADHD. Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include irritability, decreased attention span, and mental confusion. A study involving 75 magnesium-deficient children with ADHD showed an advancement in behavior for those taking magnesium, in comparison to those receiving the placebo. As with any supplement or diet plan, one should always talk to their doctor first in order to determine what is appropriate for them.
Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. Possibly, in part, because serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, the chemicals affected in children with ADHD, require sufficient levels of vitamin B6 in order for the body to produce them.
More research on natural alternatives for ADHD shows high hopes for Omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-3, found naturally in walnuts, flaxseed, and fish, represent “good fats” or polyunsaturated fats. These fatty acids play an integral role in normal brain function and in promoting the transmission of signals between neurons.
Studies have shown that children with ADHD have very low blood levels of Omega-3, specifically the component docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). As the major structural component of nerve cells, DHA must be present for the development of sensory, perceptual, cognitive, and motor neural systems. Research indicates, Omega-3 deficiencies correlate with behavioral issues such as, conduct disorder, hyperactivity, impulsivity, anxiety, temper-tantrums, sleeplessness, and learning problems.
A study by the University of Adelaide in Australia gave 130 children with ADHD, ages 7-12, 560 milligrams of Omega-3 via fish oil capsules daily. This resulted in dramatic improvements in behavior within three months. After seven months, the children were not as restless, showed progress in school, and had better concentration and attention span. After the study ended, improvements continued to be seen, proposing that the fish oils may have long-term effects as well.
When considering a child’s future, take into account that Ritalin may have some short-term advantages but proves useless for long-term treatment. Professor Sroufe protests that, “Putting children on drugs does nothing to change the conditions that derail their development in the first place...the large-scale medication of children feeds into a societal view that all of life’s problems can be solved with a pill.” Searching for a quick and easy solution to a much more complicated problem may set children up for failure."
You can take that information to the bank.
Prescription ADHD medication is poison, causes heart problems, brain development problems, stunts growth, liver/kidney problems, high blood pressure, etc etc.
Natural is always the better way. MD's are so quick to prescribe pills (I know this from personal experience) because that's all that they know. They are IGNORANT.
A typical conversation with a Dr goes like this Dr Says "so whats the problem" Patient Responds "I'm sad sometimes" Dr Says, "Okay we'll try you out on some Prozac and Trazadone".
Or
Dr Says "What's the problem? Patient Responds "I have trouble sleeping, I'm anxious a lot, and sometimes have racing thoughts" Dr Says "Sound's like you're bipolar, we'll try you out on two anti psychotics."
They never, never, look at chemical imbalances or natural alternatives that do not involve putting harmful poisonous band aids into your body.
Oh, one more quote for good measure to all of the future Doctors out there.
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
One more time for good measure......
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
B6 is a vitamin for those that don't know.....something that works WITH the body not AGAINST it like medication.
On November 17 2013 07:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I am not a medical doctor. I am obtaining my doctorate of clinical psychology.
You are not reading what I am posting. You can't "fix" ADHD through any means because it's a lack of development. There's nothing wrong that can be fixed. The only thing you can do for it is compensate. The brain doesn't grow like it does when you're a child just because you meditate or take fish oil. I don't know who told you that or where you got the idea that everyone can just meditate themselves into a bigger brain.
I don't think or feel like I'm a slave to anything. It seems like you are a slave to your paranoid delusions, though. You should seek therapy.
So you're going to school for something useless.
Just google curing ADHD naturally and you get these results.
"Not only is Ritalin not effective for long-term use, negative side effects like stunting one’s growth and addiction risk should be considered. The DEA classifies Ritalin as a “Schedule II” drug, meaning a prescription drug with the highest possible potential for abuse.
Growing awareness of the efficacy and side effects of ADHD prescription drugs has led some doctors and parents focusing more on natural alternatives for treatment. Studies have found validity in the use of certain dietary supplements, and suggest that deficiency in certain vitamins and minerals may contribute to ADHD symptoms. In particular, magnesium, vitamin B6, and omega-3 fatty acids have been highlighted.
Some experts believe the effects of mild magnesium deficiency may be represented in children with ADHD. Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include irritability, decreased attention span, and mental confusion. A study involving 75 magnesium-deficient children with ADHD showed an advancement in behavior for those taking magnesium, in comparison to those receiving the placebo. As with any supplement or diet plan, one should always talk to their doctor first in order to determine what is appropriate for them.
Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. Possibly, in part, because serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, the chemicals affected in children with ADHD, require sufficient levels of vitamin B6 in order for the body to produce them.
More research on natural alternatives for ADHD shows high hopes for Omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-3, found naturally in walnuts, flaxseed, and fish, represent “good fats” or polyunsaturated fats. These fatty acids play an integral role in normal brain function and in promoting the transmission of signals between neurons.
Studies have shown that children with ADHD have very low blood levels of Omega-3, specifically the component docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). As the major structural component of nerve cells, DHA must be present for the development of sensory, perceptual, cognitive, and motor neural systems. Research indicates, Omega-3 deficiencies correlate with behavioral issues such as, conduct disorder, hyperactivity, impulsivity, anxiety, temper-tantrums, sleeplessness, and learning problems.
A study by the University of Adelaide in Australia gave 130 children with ADHD, ages 7-12, 560 milligrams of Omega-3 via fish oil capsules daily. This resulted in dramatic improvements in behavior within three months. After seven months, the children were not as restless, showed progress in school, and had better concentration and attention span. After the study ended, improvements continued to be seen, proposing that the fish oils may have long-term effects as well.
When considering a child’s future, take into account that Ritalin may have some short-term advantages but proves useless for long-term treatment. Professor Sroufe protests that, “Putting children on drugs does nothing to change the conditions that derail their development in the first place...the large-scale medication of children feeds into a societal view that all of life’s problems can be solved with a pill.” Searching for a quick and easy solution to a much more complicated problem may set children up for failure."
You can take that information to the bank.
Prescription ADHD medication is poison, causes heart problems, brain development problems, stunts growth, liver/kidney problems, high blood pressure, etc etc.
Natural is always the better way. MD's are so quick to prescribe pills (I know this from personal experience) because that's all that they know. They are IGNORANT.
A typical conversation with a Dr goes like this Dr Says "so whats the problem" Patient Responds "I'm sad sometimes" Dr Says, "Okay we'll try you out on some Prozac and Trazadone".
Or
Dr Says "What's the problem? Patient Responds "I have trouble sleeping, I'm anxious a lot, and sometimes have racing thoughts" Dr Says "Sound's like you're bipolar, we'll try you out on two anti psychotics."
They never, never, look at chemical imbalances or natural alternatives that do not involve putting harmful poisonous band aids into your body.
Oh, one more quote for good measure to all of the future Doctors out there.
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
One more time for good measure......
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
B6 is a vitamin for those that don't know.....something that works WITH the body not AGAINST it like medication.
As an unbiased spectator, I have to say you're making more sense than the other guy.
Yes, the doctors who have spent years of medical study on the current best understanding of modern medicine are ignorant, and not the guy who's using google for research to contradict professional medical opinion.
If he's really making more sense than me then perhaps I'm wrong. Medicine might be a huge conspiracy to make money where teachers are collaborating with big pharmacy to sell kids' brains to make a load of money. If this is true then I fear for the entire nation's future as both the teachers and the doctors have it in for America.
Or, perhaps you're wrong. Why are you so angry towards doctors? Do you really think that they can go through medical school and come out on the other side more ignorant than some random guy using google?
Keep believing whatever you want, I really don't have anything much else to say if you are going to be as insulting, stupid, and childish as you have been.
I mean come the fuck on, you're gonna cite additudemag.com and freemeditation.com to a guy who's doing his thesis on amphetamine and methylphenidate? Is that your idea of academic proof?
Unfortunately not everything on the Internet is a credible source. Just because somebody says it, it doesn't have to be true. The same goes with 'A study has found....'. If you really want to make a point, back it up with evidence based studies that are peer reviewed. Plus, studies can be done which are bias to one result or the other.
On November 17 2013 07:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I am not a medical doctor. I am obtaining my doctorate of clinical psychology.
You are not reading what I am posting. You can't "fix" ADHD through any means because it's a lack of development. There's nothing wrong that can be fixed. The only thing you can do for it is compensate. The brain doesn't grow like it does when you're a child just because you meditate or take fish oil. I don't know who told you that or where you got the idea that everyone can just meditate themselves into a bigger brain.
I don't think or feel like I'm a slave to anything. It seems like you are a slave to your paranoid delusions, though. You should seek therapy.
So you're going to school for something useless.
Just google curing ADHD naturally and you get these results.
"Not only is Ritalin not effective for long-term use, negative side effects like stunting one’s growth and addiction risk should be considered. The DEA classifies Ritalin as a “Schedule II” drug, meaning a prescription drug with the highest possible potential for abuse.
Growing awareness of the efficacy and side effects of ADHD prescription drugs has led some doctors and parents focusing more on natural alternatives for treatment. Studies have found validity in the use of certain dietary supplements, and suggest that deficiency in certain vitamins and minerals may contribute to ADHD symptoms. In particular, magnesium, vitamin B6, and omega-3 fatty acids have been highlighted.
Some experts believe the effects of mild magnesium deficiency may be represented in children with ADHD. Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include irritability, decreased attention span, and mental confusion. A study involving 75 magnesium-deficient children with ADHD showed an advancement in behavior for those taking magnesium, in comparison to those receiving the placebo. As with any supplement or diet plan, one should always talk to their doctor first in order to determine what is appropriate for them.
Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. Possibly, in part, because serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, the chemicals affected in children with ADHD, require sufficient levels of vitamin B6 in order for the body to produce them.
More research on natural alternatives for ADHD shows high hopes for Omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-3, found naturally in walnuts, flaxseed, and fish, represent “good fats” or polyunsaturated fats. These fatty acids play an integral role in normal brain function and in promoting the transmission of signals between neurons.
Studies have shown that children with ADHD have very low blood levels of Omega-3, specifically the component docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). As the major structural component of nerve cells, DHA must be present for the development of sensory, perceptual, cognitive, and motor neural systems. Research indicates, Omega-3 deficiencies correlate with behavioral issues such as, conduct disorder, hyperactivity, impulsivity, anxiety, temper-tantrums, sleeplessness, and learning problems.
A study by the University of Adelaide in Australia gave 130 children with ADHD, ages 7-12, 560 milligrams of Omega-3 via fish oil capsules daily. This resulted in dramatic improvements in behavior within three months. After seven months, the children were not as restless, showed progress in school, and had better concentration and attention span. After the study ended, improvements continued to be seen, proposing that the fish oils may have long-term effects as well.
When considering a child’s future, take into account that Ritalin may have some short-term advantages but proves useless for long-term treatment. Professor Sroufe protests that, “Putting children on drugs does nothing to change the conditions that derail their development in the first place...the large-scale medication of children feeds into a societal view that all of life’s problems can be solved with a pill.” Searching for a quick and easy solution to a much more complicated problem may set children up for failure."
You can take that information to the bank.
Prescription ADHD medication is poison, causes heart problems, brain development problems, stunts growth, liver/kidney problems, high blood pressure, etc etc.
Natural is always the better way. MD's are so quick to prescribe pills (I know this from personal experience) because that's all that they know. They are IGNORANT.
A typical conversation with a Dr goes like this Dr Says "so whats the problem" Patient Responds "I'm sad sometimes" Dr Says, "Okay we'll try you out on some Prozac and Trazadone".
Or
Dr Says "What's the problem? Patient Responds "I have trouble sleeping, I'm anxious a lot, and sometimes have racing thoughts" Dr Says "Sound's like you're bipolar, we'll try you out on two anti psychotics."
They never, never, look at chemical imbalances or natural alternatives that do not involve putting harmful poisonous band aids into your body.
Oh, one more quote for good measure to all of the future Doctors out there.
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
One more time for good measure......
"Another study concluded, high levels of B6 pyridoxine proved more effective than Ritalin in improving hyperactive behavior. "
B6 is a vitamin for those that don't know.....something that works WITH the body not AGAINST it like medication.
You ought to be looking though MEDLINE/PubMed rather than unverified Google searches. The bottom line is that psychotherapeutics have a clear benefit for many ADHD patients; however, there are adverse effects to varying degrees, and of course these effects and alternative treatment strategies are undergoing further study to the end of improving ADHD prognosis and treatment on the whole.
Pharmacologic intervention for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder in preschoolers : is it justified?
Pharmacologic intervention for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in preschool children is a controversial issue. Non-pharmacologic interventions (psychosocial and restricted dietary interventions) have been shown to benefit oppositional, non-compliant, aggressive and disruptive, as well as hyperactive and inattentive behaviors in preschoolers with ADHD and other disruptive behavior disorders. However, not all families have access to non-pharmacologic interventions or prefer them. The Preschool ADHD Treatment Study recently provided evidence of benefit with immediate-release methylphenidate; however, effect sizes were small to moderate and preschoolers had a high rate of adverse effects and a unique adverse effect profile. Furthermore, no information is available about long-term safety and effects of psychopharmacologic agents on the rapidly developing brains of preschoolers. Based on current evidence and guidelines, a careful trial with psychopharmacologic agents is indicated to treat ADHD in preschoolers if there is no improvement with behavior therapy and the preschoolers continue to exhibit significantly impaired hyperactive and inattentive symptoms. Preschoolers should be monitored closely for adverse effects and tried off medications after 6 months to assess the need for ongoing psychopharmacologic intervention. Further research is needed to identify predictors and moderators of response to guide individualized/optimal treatment options for ADHD in preschoolers.
Effects of Methylphenidate on Cognitive Functions in Children and Adolescents with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder: Evidence from a Systematic Review and a Meta-Analysis.
BACKGROUND: Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is associated with a broad range of neuropsychological impairments. The relationship between these neuropsychological deficits and the defining symptoms of ADHD seems more complex than originally thought. Methylphenidate (MPH) is an effective treatment for ADHD symptoms, but its impact on cognition is less clearly understood. METHODS: With a common systematic search strategy and a rigorous coding and data extraction strategy across domains, we searched electronic databases to identify published placebo controlled trials that compared MPH and placebo on executive and nonexecutive memory, reaction time, reaction time variability and response inhibition in children and adolescents (5-18 years) with a formal diagnosis of ADHD. RESULTS: Sixty studies were included in the review, of which 36 contained sufficient data for meta-analysis. Methylphenidate was superior to placebo in all five meta-analyses: executive memory, standardized mean difference (SMD) .26, 95% confidence interval (CI): -.39 to -.13; non-executive memory, SMD .60, 95% CI: -.79 to -.41; reaction time, SMD .24, 95% CI: -.33 to -.15; reaction time variability, SMD .62, 95% CI: -.90 to -.34; response inhibition, SMD .41, 95% CI: -.55 to -.27. CONCLUSIONS: These data support the potentially important effects of MPH on various aspects of cognition known to be associated with ADHD. Consideration should be given to adding cognitive outcomes to the assessment of treatment outcome in ADHD, considering the complexity of the relationship between ADHD symptoms and cognition.
Current pharmacotherapy of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a neurobehavioral developmental disorder in children and adults characterized by a persistent pattern of impulsiveness, inattention and hyperactivity. It affects about 3-10% of children and 2-5% of adolescents and adults and occurs about four times more commonly in boys than girls. The cause of ADHD is unknown, but it has strong genetic and environment components. The first-line treatment options for ADHD include behavioral therapy, pharmacotherapy with stimulants or both. Methylphenidate and amphetamine salts are the stimulant drugs of choice for ADHD treatment. Amphetamines act by increasing presynaptic release of dopamine and other biogenic amines in the brain. Methylphenidate inhibits the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine and therefore its pharmacology is identical to that of amphetamines. Lisdex-amfetamine is a prodrug of dextroamphetamine with low feasibility for abuse. Atomoxetine, a selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, is an alternative, non-stimulant drug for ADHD but it is less efficacious than stimulants. Stimulants are generally safe but are associated with adverse effects including headache, insomnia, anorexia and weight loss. There is increased awareness about serious cardiovascular and psychiatric adverse events with ADHD drugs including concern for growth suppression in children. Stimulants have a high potential for abuse and dependence, and should be handled safely to prevent misuse and abuse.
Edit: Whoops! Should have read a couple pages back first. Found this gem:
On November 14 2013 09:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I also hate to say it but modern science is also bullshit. Science has been abused and most modern science is bullshit and a far cry from what it was like prior to the 21st century.
Ah, gotcha. Modern science is bull shit. Well if I knew that's how you felt then I wouldn't have bothered recommending you to turn to PubMed rather than quackery-blogs. Well, for your own sake, hopefully you'll grow out of your "I hate science and medicine" phase before it becomes embedded into your permanent world view, which won't be fun.
Sjphotographer I think you need to be more wary of just searching online blogs and then using them as evidence, its not very rigorous. Its true that there are studies that show significant improvements with fish oils, but there are also many other studies, which are selectively not quoted in those blogs you read, which show little to no effect of fish oils. That's why you need to read objective scientific journals that look at *all* the evidence and come to balanced conclusions, which is why fish oil isn't heavily supported by medical professionals generally, because the evidence isn't really there yet.
And the whole idea that its a massive conspiracy between teachers and doctors is absurd; if fish oils actually worked don't you think people would have noticed by now? They're widely available and there aren't really any serious side effects of taking them unless you have some specific conditions. It is probably something that can very easily be tested by millions of people, and if it worked then they would have noticed and there would have been a significant decline in the number of kids with ADHD symptoms. But there isn't, and its not because they've been brainwashed to think fish oils are evil by the medical industry either. If anything they recommend fish oils as a useful dietary supplement, just not as a cure to ADHD.
Many studies that claim to have demonstrated certain things could be faulty for many reasons that you can't identify from a a very brief reading of the results, you need to have very high controls to ensure that the bias from study authors (including the person who is talking about the evils of thinking of pills as the ultimate solution) don't creep into the results.
I'm not sure its really worth debating when you start saying things like modern science as a whole is bullshit. I mean I don't know your background, but its pretty likely that you're making that claim out of near ignorance about what scientists actually do and how they draw their conclusions.
On November 18 2013 02:21 radscorpion9 wrote: Sjphotographer I think you need to be more wary of just searching online blogs and then using them as evidence, its not very rigorous. Its true that there are studies that show significant improvements with fish oils, but there are also many other studies, which are selectively not quoted in those blogs you read, which show little to no effect of fish oils. That's why you need to read objective scientific journals that look at *all* the evidence and come to balanced conclusions, which is why fish oil isn't heavily supported by medical professionals generally, because the evidence isn't really there yet.
And the whole idea that its a massive conspiracy between teachers and doctors is absurd; if fish oils actually worked don't you think people would have noticed by now? They're widely available and there aren't really any serious side effects of taking them unless you have some specific conditions. It is probably something that can very easily be tested by millions of people, and if it worked then they would have noticed and there would have been a significant decline in the number of kids with ADHD symptoms. But there isn't, and its not because they've been brainwashed to think fish oils are evil by the medical industry either. If anything they recommend fish oils as a useful dietary supplement, just not as a cure to ADHD.
Many studies that claim to have demonstrated certain things could be faulty for many reasons that you can't identify from a a very brief reading of the results, you need to have very high controls to ensure that the bias from study authors (including the person who is talking about the evils of thinking of pills as the ultimate solution) don't creep into the results.
I'm not sure its really worth debating when you start saying things like modern science as a whole is bullshit. I mean I don't know your background, but its pretty likely that you're making that claim out of near ignorance about what scientists actually do and how they draw their conclusions.
You do realize, that scientists nor big pharma would ever sponsor such research related to ADHD and it's treatment naturally.....right?
Nobody's going to make money selling fish oil's, B100 complex, or any vitamins. Big pharma however would sponsor researchers that would give kids a very low dose (think daily recommended) of B vitamins and compare it to a high potency drug like Ritalin and come to the conclusion that the B vitamins are near useless.
The research that I have found regarding vitamins, minerals, eating properly, exercise, and holistic herbs have all proved to me via their research and my critical thinking skills that medication really just is a band aid and does not treat the source of the problem like vitamins/minerals do.
Further more, Doctors are not educated on the importance of vitamins, minerals, foods (they are not nutrionalists afterall), nor on holistic herbs. They are IGNORANT on the subject and most Dr's will just tell you that vitamins make your urine "expensive" and that's it. The MEDICAL PROFESSION IS A BUSINESS. BUSINESS'S REQUIRE MONEY!!! BIG PHARMA IS A BUSINESS.....WAKE UP!
Little do they know that Vitamin D when taken at doses that work with the body (not the joke of a dally recommended of 400IU but more like 5000IU) is more effective at preventing the flu than the flu vaccine, has the power to cure winter depression or any depression, has the power to cure anxiety, prevent heart disease, boost the immune system, and so on.
You will never hear about such things in the media though or in large researches because big pharma can't make a buck on Vitamin's. I can get 90 Vitamin D3 5,000IU for only $8 whereas a prescription antibiotic and a flu vaccine could run into the thousands of dollars.
I managed to cure myself from seasonal depression a long with anxiety by taking 4,400 IU's of Vitamin D......I don't have anxiety nor seasonal depression anymore yet I tried pretty much every anti depressant out there. My old doctor even told me that he doesn't check vitamin D levels nor prescribe vitamin D even though the majority of people are living with a Vitamin D deficiency.....probably because he doesn't get a kickback.
Most people are extremely deficient in many, many, vitamins and minerals and the doctors will not treat the source of the problem. They will merely prescribe you what they and the pharmaceutical company's can make a buck off of.
Also, to the person citing me about how science now a days is bullshit....well it is. Science is abused and prescription medication, weapons of mass destruction being made, and fluke theories are all great examples of how science is being abused and for the most part, is a joke.
On November 17 2013 21:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Yes, the doctors who have spent years of medical study on the current best understanding of modern medicine are ignorant, and not the guy who's using google for research to contradict professional medical opinion.
If he's really making more sense than me then perhaps I'm wrong. Medicine might be a huge conspiracy to make money where teachers are collaborating with big pharmacy to sell kids' brains to make a load of money. If this is true then I fear for the entire nation's future as both the teachers and the doctors have it in for America.
Or, perhaps you're wrong. Why are you so angry towards doctors? Do you really think that they can go through medical school and come out on the other side more ignorant than some random guy using google?
Keep believing whatever you want, I really don't have anything much else to say if you are going to be as insulting, stupid, and childish as you have been.
I mean come the fuck on, you're gonna cite additudemag.com and freemeditation.com to a guy who's doing his thesis on amphetamine and methylphenidate? Is that your idea of academic proof?
"In the study, while 31 of 167 children in the placebo group contracted influenza over the four month duration of the study, only 18 of 168 children in the vitamin D group did. This means vitamin D was responsible for an absolute reduction of nearly 8 percent.
Flu vaccines, according to the latest scientific evidence, achieve a 1 percent reduction in influenza symptoms (http://www.naturalnews.com/029641_vaccines_j...).
This means vitamin D appears to be 800% more effective than vaccines at preventing influenza infections in children.
"To further support this, what really needs to be done is a clinical trial directly comparing vitamin D supplements to influenza vaccines with four total groups:
Group #1 receives a vitamin D placebo Group #2 receives real vitamin D (2,000 IUs per day) Group #3 receives an influenza vaccine injection Group #4 receives an inert injection
Groups 1 and 2 should be randomized and double blind while groups 3 and 4 should also be randomized and double blind. The results would reveal the comparative effectiveness of vitamin D versus influenza vaccines.
"Unfortunately, such a trial will never be conducted because vaccine pushers already know this trial would show their vaccines to be all but useless. So they won't subject vaccines to any real science that compares it to vitamin D.
So yes, I consider anyone in the medical profession to be sheep. They work at places that are for the sick and dying that hold dead people (hospitals) and almost never treat the source of the problem (Name me one prescription drug that boosts the immune system???? Most of them are just band aids and are poison.)
On November 18 2013 06:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Because you lack basic scientific understanding you are interpreting the results wrong.
Vitamin D was 8% better than a placebo (something they gave to kids calling it vitamin D when in fact it was nothing), not the vaccine.
What was the rate in the children that got the vaccine? I'm willing to bet it was less than the vitamin D group or the placebo group.
Read the whole article, it was 800% more effective not 8%.
It's funny how brainwashed that you are to believe that medication is the be all and end all. I feel bad for you and your future patients who like, are uneducated on actually fixing problems at the source.
There are tons of articles out there showcasing that Vitamin D is more effective than the flu vaccine.
It did NOT compare vitamin D in children without a vaccination to children with a vaccination. In fact, it just gave kids vitamin D and concluded "oh hey taking vitamin D3 reduces influenza A but not influenza B."
Like, no shit Sherlock. How then do you come to a conclusion that it's 800% as effective than the flu vaccine? Like, where are they getting that information from where it is compared?
Honestly, they're just catering to their main audience, people who think they're smart but are in fact too stupid to interpret results correctly so they go to "naturalnews" to feed their paranoid delusions.
And then naturalnews makes money off of stupid people on advertisements.
I work in a mental health module at my local jail where I have daily contact with inmates who have paranoid schizophrenia. They often claim that we are all brainwashed and that we need to wake up, the government is doing (something which the government is not) and we are sheep for believing them.
You sound exactly like the literally crazy people that are locked up in a module for the acutely psychotic.
Perhaps if you're the only one running around telling people that they're brainwashed and need to wake up it's actually you that is brainwashed and you're just too delusional to recognize it.
It found that people who were vaccinated against THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza were 1% less likely to develop the flu not vaccinated against than people unvaccinated. This still means that vaccination AGAINST THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza was helpful against ANY TYPE OF FLU.
In correct vaccinations, 99% OF PEOPLE VACCINATED DID NOT DEVELOP THE FLU.
These studies were done on a sample size of ~70,000 at the 95% confidence interval and it is unlikely that their results are due to chance.
So, to bring this point home using your logic, comparing it to the 8% effectiveness of Vitamin D3, vaccination against the flu is 1200% as effective as Vitamin D3 in preventing influenza.
On November 18 2013 06:21 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Good science in the modern times is rare.
It found that people who were vaccinated against THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza were 1% less likely to develop the flu not vaccinated against than people unvaccinated. This still means that vaccination AGAINST THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza was helpful against ANY TYPE OF FLU.
In correct vaccinations, 99% OF PEOPLE VACCINATED DID NOT DEVELOP THE FLU.
These studies were done on a sample size of ~70,000 at the 95% confidence interval and it is unlikely that their results are due to chance.
So, to bring this point home using your logic, comparing it to the 8% effectiveness of Vitamin D3, vaccination against the flu is 1200% as effective as Vitamin D3 in preventing influenza.
On November 18 2013 06:21 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Good science in the modern times is rare.
lol, sheep
You're trying to undermine the studies that I presented but those people that presented and conducted those studies are much more reputable than some random online forum video game poster will ever be. It's not going to work with me buddy, what you're saying to undermine it is all bs.
There are multiple studies that indicate that Vitamin D is more efficient than the flu vaccine.
You just don't want to believe in the data that I presented to you (Can't blame you, after all that would mean you wasted around 6 years in school just to make big pharma even more money, I'd be very defensive like you as well.)
Keep being a sheep that only believes in prescription medication.
Also, the flu vaccine is not 100% effective, get that out of your head.
Go back to eating your fatty foods and taking Prozac.
Sigh, both of you shut up and get this thread back on topic. We're not here to talk about the validity of medicine vs fish oil vs counseling vs meditation. We're here to talk about video game "addiction" and the video posted by the OP.
Come on guys. Sj's either a troll or someone who's not worth having discourse with. Lets move this derail along. It was funny, but now it's just getting sad.
One of the aspects I'm trying to identify further is the role parents can play.
Now, what I'm interested in is how parents can play a POSITIVE role in helping you overcome your "video game addiction".
As you heard in the TEDx talk, I very specifically called out parents for being part of the problem, and that instead of constantly blaming their kids they should take more responsibility.
So, if you had come to the conclusion that you wanted to move on from games, how could your parents help you?
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
I appreciate your feedback
Let's break down the definition of disease:
1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
2.(Medicine / Pathology) any impairment of normal physiological function affecting all or part of an organism, esp a specific pathological change caused by infection, stress, etc., producing characteristic symptoms; illness or sickness in general.
Does addiction meet this criteria? Well, it really depends on who you ask. Whether or not addiction is a disease is a hot debate. We do know that an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex leads to a higher risk for addiction and that the propensity for addiction does run in families much like cancer, heart disease, and high blood pressure. However, unlike most diseases addiction does not have a biologically degenerative process or a pathological biological process.
Addiction occurs when your brain is running its standard reward system process and dealing with desensitization (also known as tolerance) to maintain homeostasis (sameness, think thermostat). Continually stimulating dopamine receptors in the brain's pleasure center leads to the brain taking steps to prevent over-stimulation by reducing the number of receptors, thus it takes more of the addictive behavior to trigger the same response. The brain is doing what it needs to do to maintain homeostasis, the person is choosing behaviors that continue to exacerbate this process.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
I appreciate your feedback
It's not a matter of opinion though. It's in the DSM-V and there are plenty of facts and studies that prove addiction is real and it is a disease and this disease can be activated in many ways and take many forms. I think it was Dr. Drew who didn't like the term addiction himself because of the connotations and misunderstandings of the problem, he wanted to change the name to RAD, reward activation disorder iirc.
Side note, he also mentions something about many or all of his certain addiction patients have ADD. And that in order to get clean they have to also stop all those medications as well. I don't know if that is you, but you might want to look into that.
A lot of people like to argue that it's not a disease any more than being fat is a disease (which in a lot of cases, is a disease as well). You have to ask yourself, can you even define the word correctly? Technically a disease could even be losing your arm in a car accident. Essentially people are born with genes for a predisposition towards addiction. Once they become triggered, then the disease is active; In the same way that you can be predisposed to cancer, and once a cell is triggered it starts to grow. The only difference that people get up in arms about is the fact that you are 'willingly feeding' your disease, which is not the case. Addicts are not in control, and that is the point. The brain's reward/pleasure center becomes hijacked. The nucleus accumbens becomes flooded with dopamine, the amygala creates a conditioned response, and the hippocampus remembers the rapid state of satisfaction. After repeated use, your brain rewires itself to be more efficient at whatever it is used to doing. You know, like 'practice makes permanent'. It also changes the structure of the brain and with specific things actually causes brain damage. It overloads certain pathways through all of this and uses too much of your chemicals leaving you low or imbalanced. Dopamine, seratonin, melanin, or reducing neurotransmitter receptors all together. Which is why people often need more and more to reach their goal level of pleasure/satisfaction.
With all that being said, yes there are people out there who are predisposed addicts who come from good upbringing who were never exposed to the terrible side of their genes (this is where nature and nurture come together). Some of these people willfully avoid high risk behaviors knowing their family history. Some of these people do not know and may end up seeking out other more socially acceptable risky highly arousing risky behaviors. You know like free climbing, skydiving, motorsports, sex, etc. This is why you may sometimes hear people (at least in my area I hear it a lot) say things like "I'm addicted to piericings", or "I'm itching to get some new ink already!", when body mods cost a shit load of money and they are as poor as me.
Anyway, I digress, One of the key components in recovery is just to assume the position of faith that something else is in control and you are not in control and you never were.
PS- If you have a cousin who is an alcoholic then there you go. The gene is in your family ties and you probably have it. Whether you want to admit it exists or live without fear of it is up to you, all I can say is be aware of high risk behaviors as they may replace each other via 'scumbag brain' rewiring your pleasure centers more efficiently.
Btw, the theory as to why people have this gene/mutation evolutionarily speaking is that these people are arguably better humans than those who aren't. They are the first people to drop everything and go into a fire and search for someone crying for help. The first to engage in combat. The people who can stay calm and focused where others would be pissing themselves. These are the people who are evolutionarily wired to immediately, without thought (because the brain gives them the pleasure/satisfaction reward), go to help others in preserving the race as a whole. That 'high'.
@ NEOtheONE - Thanks for the info. I can certainly see how it would be a hot debate in the scientific community.
@ MarlieChurphy - The ADD debate is incredibly interesting. I’m not currently on any ADD medication and have 0 plans to ever be on it again. If there’s anything I’ve found more addicting than anything else in my entire life, it’s ADD medication. Just watch the movie “Limitless” if you want to see the type of experience you can have on that medication. When I watch Limitless I see a guy on Adderall.
I appreciate the info you provide. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on the porn addiction debate and how it relates to video game “addiction”.
Do you believe what the speaker says about how after 90 days of a detox your brain chemistry begins to alter back to its normal form, away from the addiction type responses?
As far as ADD goes, I really think that attention span and related "disorders" all fall on a spectrum. About ten doctors in my childhood said I didn't have ADD, and then one guy did and so I went on some medication for a while (concerta) that did absolutely nothing for me and then dropped it and moved on with my life. Most people I know have been told at some point that they have ADD, and I think in a lot of ways it's kind of a matter of opinion, and rarely blck and white.
On November 18 2013 11:24 Uncultured wrote: Come on guys. Sj's either a troll or someone who's not worth having discourse with. Lets move this derail along. It was funny, but now it's just getting sad.
What's sadder is all the people who jumped in to defend him.
@ MarlieChurphy - The ADD debate is incredibly interesting. I’m not currently on any ADD medication and have 0 plans to ever be on it again. If there’s anything I’ve found more addicting than anything else in my entire life, it’s ADD medication. Just watch the movie “Limitless” if you want to see the type of experience you can have on that medication. When I watch Limitless I see a guy on Adderall.
I appreciate the info you provide. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on the porn addiction debate and how it relates to video game “addiction”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
Do you believe what the speaker says about how after 90 days of a detox your brain chemistry begins to alter back to its normal form, away from the addiction type responses?
Very interesting. I was just talking about how novelty and variety is a core STRONG drive in male brain in someone's girl blog. I think I may just join this nofap reddit for science purposes. Although, I may actually be addicted to the internet and games myself which would just fill that void anyways.
As far as the 90 days thing, yes. As long as there is no permanent brain damage, as drugs like: LSD, meth, ecstacy, inhalants, etc., cause, then our brain will naturally rewire itself to whatever we begin filling it with. Other drugs that do no cause brain damage are better at dealing with this of course, heroin, cocaine, marijauna, etc. Although, obviously some of these drugs are part of a stronger reward mechanism and also effect the entire nervous system more, so they reactivated just as easily during a relapse.
A rather interesting note about heroin actually, is that there are no long term side effects of it, and no real permanent damage is done from it's use. The only real issues are: an overdose which can kill you by shutting down your body's normal programs, sharing diseased needles, mixing with other drugs, or getting infections. Which is exactly why opiates are so great and useful to medicine.
Marijauna is a good example, because often times MA recovering addicts will all the sudden be able to remember where they left their keys or sunglasses, or other notable improvements in daily activities. And many users who started chronic addiction with pot before the brain was done fully developing (prefontal cortex isn't done til about 25) will resume where they left off and their mentality and everything can begin to change dramatically.
I actually wonder if something similar in the brain with pot, also happens with other "soft" addictions like internet, games, porn, etc. I also think it's important to not that there is a difference between porn and sex addiction though. SA is often people who are spending lots of money at porn shops, on hookers, having unprotected sex, doing dangerous sexual things, committing crimes etc. Sex addicts can start out from porn obviously though.
The most interesting thing about that talk for me though is the symptoms of it, I probably have a couple, and the long term ED thing is a bit of a kick in the ass (I wouldn't want that to happen to me later on in life O_O ). And the fact that the figures change based on the suspected reason that high speed internet porn was introduced after these men were adults versus the teens who grew up with it. I am actually in a group of very unique males where (high speed) internet didn't become mainstream until about half way through my porn career. I started out on playboys and videos, then there was like 56k pictures and short 10 second clips (that took hours to DL), and it wasn't until I was in my late teens did it become the norm.
Here is a great video on (porn) addiction, and how it rewires and hijacks the brain.
I used to be addicted to porn, which slowly escalated to sex, given my intelligience, I was able to break down all the bullshit surround the PUA community and do what works for me etc... I eventually had this lifestyle where I was have sex, coming from orgasms at least 4 times a day. Suffice to say, no other drug (coke, addy, mj, lsd) can beat that high for me (hav enot tried heroin), which is pretty neat! SC is pretty high up there too, but eventually I'll realize where my true ambitions lie :D
It's excessively hard for me to see things like video games and sex as "addictions" in the traditional sense of the word. I feel like calling things like having lots of sex or playing lots of video games "addictions", just serves to detract from "real" addictions like opiates, benzodiazepines etc... It honestly feels like we are somewhat trying to give a disorder, disease or addiction to everything in this thread, all of which is by the way being self-diagnosed.
I don't know, it just sounds insanely weird to me for someone to suggest video games as an addiction and I cringed possibly harder than I ever had before when he stated that he "quit cold-turkey" like he was quitting something with actual withdrawal effects. It honestly sounded like complete shit when he continues on about how people want to quit video games so bad but can't, which is entirely fallacious, especially when you consider people who have "actual" addictions who can quit and don't just sit there feeling sorry for themselves.
Yes, I watched the video and yes I know that he said we're spending too much time trying to figure out whether this is a disease or not etc... Which is insanely ironic considering his infliction, tone and the title of his speech which dictates that with complete certainty video game addiction exists.
On December 14 2013 10:20 TheDougler wrote: As far as ADD goes, I really think that attention span and related "disorders" all fall on a spectrum. About ten doctors in my childhood said I didn't have ADD, and then one guy did and so I went on some medication for a while (concerta) that did absolutely nothing for me and then dropped it and moved on with my life. Most people I know have been told at some point that they have ADD, and I think in a lot of ways it's kind of a matter of opinion, and rarely blck and white.
I definitely agree with you about them falling on a spectrum. I also think the way we interact with society nowadays develops a habit of us simply not having a long attention span unless the subject matter is engaging. The bar for something to be engaging grows be the year it feels like.
@ MarlieChurphy - The ADD debate is incredibly interesting. I’m not currently on any ADD medication and have 0 plans to ever be on it again. If there’s anything I’ve found more addicting than anything else in my entire life, it’s ADD medication. Just watch the movie “Limitless” if you want to see the type of experience you can have on that medication. When I watch Limitless I see a guy on Adderall.
I appreciate the info you provide. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on the porn addiction debate and how it relates to video game “addiction”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
Do you believe what the speaker says about how after 90 days of a detox your brain chemistry begins to alter back to its normal form, away from the addiction type responses?
Very interesting. I was just talking about how novelty and variety is a core STRONG drive in male brain in someone's girl blog. I think I may just join this nofap reddit for science purposes. Although, I may actually be addicted to the internet and games myself which would just fill that void anyways.
As far as the 90 days thing, yes. As long as there is no permanent brain damage, as drugs like: LSD, meth, ecstacy, inhalants, etc., cause, then our brain will naturally rewire itself to whatever we begin filling it with. Other drugs that do no cause brain damage are better at dealing with this of course, heroin, cocaine, marijauna, etc. Although, obviously some of these drugs are part of a stronger reward mechanism and also effect the entire nervous system more, so they reactivated just as easily during a relapse.
A rather interesting note about heroin actually, is that there are no long term side effects of it, and no real permanent damage is done from it's use. The only real issues are: an overdose which can kill you by shutting down your body's normal programs, sharing diseased needles, mixing with other drugs, or getting infections. Which is exactly why opiates are so great and useful to medicine.
Marijauna is a good example, because often times MA recovering addicts will all the sudden be able to remember where they left their keys or sunglasses, or other notable improvements in daily activities. And many users who started chronic addiction with pot before the brain was done fully developing (prefontal cortex isn't done til about 25) will resume where they left off and their mentality and everything can begin to change dramatically.
I actually wonder if something similar in the brain with pot, also happens with other "soft" addictions like internet, games, porn, etc. I also think it's important to not that there is a difference between porn and sex addiction though. SA is often people who are spending lots of money at porn shops, on hookers, having unprotected sex, doing dangerous sexual things, committing crimes etc. Sex addicts can start out from porn obviously though.
The most interesting thing about that talk for me though is the symptoms of it, I probably have a couple, and the long term ED thing is a bit of a kick in the ass (I wouldn't want that to happen to me later on in life O_O ). And the fact that the figures change based on the suspected reason that high speed internet porn was introduced after these men were adults versus the teens who grew up with it. I am actually in a group of very unique males where (high speed) internet didn't become mainstream until about half way through my porn career. I started out on playboys and videos, then there was like 56k pictures and short 10 second clips (that took hours to DL), and it wasn't until I was in my late teens did it become the norm.
Here is a great video on (porn) addiction, and how it rewires and hijacks the brain. http://youtu.be/TKDFsLi2oBk
The nofap movement is very interesting. I’ve gone through the 90 day detox multiple times and have found positive differences in my life.
Interestingly enough after watching the porn addiction TEDx talk I became more discouraged from smoking pot, which was something I had done for a long time. From my experience I used to think smoking pot had a positive impact on my life but after going back and analyzing the times that my life has been the best and I’ve been happiest, it’s actually the times that I wasn’t smoking pot - even though in the moment when I’m stoned I’d argue that point intensely.
Thanks for the video, I’ll check it out.
On December 14 2013 12:10 KiWiKaKi wrote: my name is KiWiKaKi, and I am an addict
Nice to e-meet you.
On December 14 2013 14:09 THEPPLsELBOW wrote: I used to be addicted to porn, which slowly escalated to sex, given my intelligience, I was able to break down all the bullshit surround the PUA community and do what works for me etc... I eventually had this lifestyle where I was have sex, coming from orgasms at least 4 times a day. Suffice to say, no other drug (coke, addy, mj, lsd) can beat that high for me (hav enot tried heroin), which is pretty neat! SC is pretty high up there too, but eventually I'll realize where my true ambitions lie :D
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. Why do you think SC is so high on that list?
On December 14 2013 15:51 SomethingWitty wrote: It's excessively hard for me to see things like video games and sex as "addictions" in the traditional sense of the word. I feel like calling things like having lots of sex or playing lots of video games "addictions", just serves to detract from "real" addictions like opiates, benzodiazepines etc... It honestly feels like we are somewhat trying to give a disorder, disease or addiction to everything in this thread, all of which is by the way being self-diagnosed.
I don't know, it just sounds insanely weird to me for someone to suggest video games as an addiction and I cringed possibly harder than I ever had before when he stated that he "quit cold-turkey" like he was quitting something with actual withdrawal effects. It honestly sounded like complete shit when he continues on about how people want to quit video games so bad but can't, which is entirely fallacious, especially when you consider people who have "actual" addictions who can quit and don't just sit there feeling sorry for themselves.
Yes, I watched the video and yes I know that he said we're spending too much time trying to figure out whether this is a disease or not etc... Which is insanely ironic considering his infliction, tone and the title of his speech which dictates that with complete certainty video game addiction exists.
Thanks for commenting. I'm certainly not the biggest fan of the word addiction in general, although the DSM-5 has recognized the potential of video game addiction and I'd be shocked if the next version didn't officially include it as more scientific research is done.
Note, I had no control over the title of the speech, and the tone I tried to take was one of bringing awareness to the issue while still championing the gaming community. Unfortunately, and this may simply be your own experience, but there are in fact a significant group of people who DO want to quit and CAN'T. At least that's been my experience with daily emails flying into my inbox stating that exact problem.
Regardless, I appreciate the comment. Thanks for checking it out and adding your input.
I used to play a lot of games too, but I mean common sense at some point kicks in when your playing 16 hours a day every single day of the week for months like this guy was. Lots of people have addictions though it really all depends at what point you consider it a serious problem, but it can happen with anything not just games. This guy is an extreme case. I wonder what games he spent so much time on hopefully not WOW. I would also argue that the majority of the population has what many would consider an addiction just not to games. I think some of this though is just taking an extreme case as some kind of motivational speaker type of thing
@ Colbert, funny you should bring that up about pot use (it's a common thing drug users/addicts say). There is a quote from the late 'Uncle Howie' (who was a couple of underground hip-hop guys' uncle [heroin addict etc]). They often use his conversations as skits because they are funny/crazy stories. In one of them he talks about how he has the most exciting times when he was using, but he has the best times when he wasn't.
He was in and out of heroin use and rehabs and it eventually took his life maybe a few years ago. RIP
On December 14 2013 10:20 TheDougler wrote: As far as ADD goes, I really think that attention span and related "disorders" all fall on a spectrum. About ten doctors in my childhood said I didn't have ADD, and then one guy did and so I went on some medication for a while (concerta) that did absolutely nothing for me and then dropped it and moved on with my life. Most people I know have been told at some point that they have ADD, and I think in a lot of ways it's kind of a matter of opinion, and rarely blck and white.
I definitely agree with you about them falling on a spectrum. I also think the way we interact with society nowadays develops a habit of us simply not having a long attention span unless the subject matter is engaging. The bar for something to be engaging grows be the year it feels like.
Except there is no spectrum for these disorders. ADD is not a diagnosis. There is ADHD with or without the Hyperactivity/Impulsivity. Also, from a diagnostic standpoint there are usually clear signs that there is an issue with functioning. Where it gets tricky is that Autism Spectrum disorder, Bipolar disorder, damage to the frontal lobe of the brain or an underdeveloped frontal lobe, and ADHD have a little overlap in symptoms but very different treatment approaches.
As for the person that was originally quoted, clearly if multiple doctors say you did not have it then the one that did is the one that is wrong. Far more common the issue is a child sees one medical doctor gets ADHD medication and the parent does not get a second opinion. Everyone has lapses in attention but it is really a lot harder to get diagnosed with ADHD if you are not presenting with the hyperactivity or impulsivity because it requires far more impairment in functioning on an attention level to necessitate a diagnosis. And it's the hyperactivity/impulsivity that makes people more susceptible to addiction.
On December 14 2013 15:51 SomethingWitty wrote: It's excessively hard for me to see things like video games and sex as "addictions" in the traditional sense of the word. I feel like calling things like having lots of sex or playing lots of video games "addictions", just serves to detract from "real" addictions like opiates, benzodiazepines etc... It honestly feels like we are somewhat trying to give a disorder, disease or addiction to everything in this thread, all of which is by the way being self-diagnosed.
I don't know, it just sounds insanely weird to me for someone to suggest video games as an addiction and I cringed possibly harder than I ever had before when he stated that he "quit cold-turkey" like he was quitting something with actual withdrawal effects. It honestly sounded like complete shit when he continues on about how people want to quit video games so bad but can't, which is entirely fallacious, especially when you consider people who have "actual" addictions who can quit and don't just sit there feeling sorry for themselves.
Yes, I watched the video and yes I know that he said we're spending too much time trying to figure out whether this is a disease or not etc... Which is insanely ironic considering his infliction, tone and the title of his speech which dictates that with complete certainty video game addiction exists.
Honestly, making this an issue of semantics does nothing to help the people that want to quit but cannot. Food addictions are a big thing nowadays as well, are they any less real than drug addiction? The only fundamental difference between drug addiction and any other "addiction" is that the drug is directly altering brain chemistry rather than the action leading to a brain process which leads to altered brain chemistry. Drug addictions just cut the middle man. Technically food addiction would fit somewhere in between because some foods directly alter brain chemistry.
And the rest of your statements are rather cringe worthy and take a blame oriented approach to these people that have a problem that at the very least is a real problem to them. Ever heard of psychosomatic illness? It's a fancy way of saying that you can make yourself sick without any physical cause for the sickness. It's all in your head. But it is still a real problem to the people having to cope with it. Panic attacks are another example of a very real problem with no physical cause.
On December 18 2013 10:00 snakeeyez wrote: I used to play a lot of games too, but I mean common sense at some point kicks in when your playing 16 hours a day every single day of the week for months like this guy was. Lots of people have addictions though it really all depends at what point you consider it a serious problem, but it can happen with anything not just games. This guy is an extreme case. I wonder what games he spent so much time on hopefully not WOW. I would also argue that the majority of the population has what many would consider an addiction just not to games. I think some of this though is just taking an extreme case as some kind of motivational speaker type of thing
Thanks for your comment. I disagree that it's simply just about common sense, because one of the insights into people who struggle to quit is that they are aware of the fact that they are playing too much and want to stop but don't know how. It's easy to over-simplify it and say they should just quit... but if that worked so well why are so many people still unable to?
Of course, I agree that it can be that simple, but what I've found most effective is helping to educate people on why they play so much, because when they have a deeper understanding of it they have shown a significantly higher success rate to quit. At least that's been my experience.
I don't disagree that the rest of society has addictions to various other vices. The question is, what do we do about it?
On December 19 2013 20:24 MarlieChurphy wrote: @ Colbert, funny you should bring that up about pot use (it's a common thing drug users/addicts say). There is a quote from the late 'Uncle Howie' (who was a couple of underground hip-hop guys' uncle [heroin addict etc]). They often use his conversations as skits because they are funny/crazy stories. In one of them he talks about how he has the most exciting times when he was using, but he has the best times when he wasn't. http://youtu.be/bSRIuDePsQc
He was in and out of heroin use and rehabs and it eventually took his life maybe a few years ago. RIP
The exciting times vs. best times is very very interesting. For me I definitely relate to that a lot. In the moment I feel on top of the world, but when I take a zoom out and see the periods of my life where I was smoking a lot of pot, it's clear I was significantly more passive and overall "content" with where things were. (Of course, being content is fine, but in my case it made me lazy, etc.)
On December 19 2013 22:41 Cheerio wrote: insightful, gave me some ideas for my own work.
Thanks for commenting! I'm glad you found it useful.
On December 14 2013 10:20 TheDougler wrote: As far as ADD goes, I really think that attention span and related "disorders" all fall on a spectrum. About ten doctors in my childhood said I didn't have ADD, and then one guy did and so I went on some medication for a while (concerta) that did absolutely nothing for me and then dropped it and moved on with my life. Most people I know have been told at some point that they have ADD, and I think in a lot of ways it's kind of a matter of opinion, and rarely blck and white.
I definitely agree with you about them falling on a spectrum. I also think the way we interact with society nowadays develops a habit of us simply not having a long attention span unless the subject matter is engaging. The bar for something to be engaging grows be the year it feels like.
Except there is no spectrum for these disorders. ADD is not a diagnosis. There is ADHD with or without the Hyperactivity/Impulsivity. Also, from a diagnostic standpoint there are usually clear signs that there is an issue with functioning. Where it gets tricky is that Autism Spectrum disorder, Bipolar disorder, damage to the frontal lobe of the brain or an underdeveloped frontal lobe, and ADHD have a little overlap in symptoms but very different treatment approaches.
As for the person that was originally quoted, clearly if multiple doctors say you did not have it then the one that did is the one that is wrong. Far more common the issue is a child sees one medical doctor gets ADHD medication and the parent does not get a second opinion. Everyone has lapses in attention but it is really a lot harder to get diagnosed with ADHD if you are not presenting with the hyperactivity or impulsivity because it requires far more impairment in functioning on an attention level to necessitate a diagnosis. And it's the hyperactivity/impulsivity that makes people more susceptible to addiction.
This thread is very interesting and hits home pretty hard.. The video makes some serious points about why people are addicted to games; for me the ones that stick out are Instant gratification and showing progress. I am a musician (music degree) but its so hard to really note "progress" as a musician; it takes months or years to really feel like you are learning and improving. So If I have 2 free hours, playing and WINNING (keyword for me) is more gratifying than 2 hours of guitar practice.
I get stuck in this loop.. When I was young and in highschool, I was able to play starcraft/WC3 all day long and I was always near the top of the ladder (top 10 in wc3 most of the seasons/etc) and it was great. Now, since a little before SC2 even, I am an "adult" and have to work a fulltime job. Of course, that drastically reduces my hours of gaming and keep in mind, I still play a few hours of guitar each day. I get stuck in this loop of thinking I should be at the top of every ladder still, yet I can't play enough to achieve it to the rate I want to (I dipped in and out of GM since sc2 started, and now in dota dipping around 4200) - but I keep playing, thinking one day I'll be back to the "skill" of my youth and dominate everyone.
But in the end, I don't even know why I do it. I have no interest in becoming a semi-pro again in any game, mainly because I don't have the time and my #1 hobby is music.. if I did anything super intense, I'd want it to be music. So why do I keep trying to climb the gaming ladder, despite knowing I'll never do anything when/if I got to the top?? I wish I knew.. Its the addiction.
I am trying to make some sort of "achievement chart" with music for the new year.. to make me really want to focus on that. Something that may sound incredibly stupid to other people, but hopefully it'll give me that fire and drive of competitiveness that gaming gives me. Something like trying to gain massive numbers of songs learned/covered on youtube.. trying to promote music and get a higher number of hits on a website.. things like that. I know it wont be competing against other people, but hopefully that thrill of improvement will keep me going somehow.
I just know in 2014, I need to fix this.. it also may be terrible that since I don't watch TV anymore, I watch a lot of esports. And in turn, it makes me want to play games.. I actually prefer watching Dota or SC2 over most normal sports except NFL.. But damn, I think the only way I'll be able to quit is to stop watching those events sadly.
On December 22 2013 14:20 SnowfaLL wrote: This thread is very interesting and hits home pretty hard.. The video makes some serious points about why people are addicted to games; for me the ones that stick out are Instant gratification and showing progress. I am a musician (music degree) but its so hard to really note "progress" as a musician; it takes months or years to really feel like you are learning and improving. So If I have 2 free hours, playing and WINNING (keyword for me) is more gratifying than 2 hours of guitar practice.
I get stuck in this loop.. When I was young and in highschool, I was able to play starcraft/WC3 all day long and I was always near the top of the ladder (top 10 in wc3 most of the seasons/etc) and it was great. Now, since a little before SC2 even, I am an "adult" and have to work a fulltime job. Of course, that drastically reduces my hours of gaming and keep in mind, I still play a few hours of guitar each day. I get stuck in this loop of thinking I should be at the top of every ladder still, yet I can't play enough to achieve it to the rate I want to (I dipped in and out of GM since sc2 started, and now in dota dipping around 4200) - but I keep playing, thinking one day I'll be back to the "skill" of my youth and dominate everyone.
But in the end, I don't even know why I do it. I have no interest in becoming a semi-pro again in any game, mainly because I don't have the time and my #1 hobby is music.. if I did anything super intense, I'd want it to be music. So why do I keep trying to climb the gaming ladder, despite knowing I'll never do anything when/if I got to the top?? I wish I knew.. Its the addiction.
I am trying to make some sort of "achievement chart" with music for the new year.. to make me really want to focus on that. Something that may sound incredibly stupid to other people, but hopefully it'll give me that fire and drive of competitiveness that gaming gives me. Something like trying to gain massive numbers of songs learned/covered on youtube.. trying to promote music and get a higher number of hits on a website.. things like that. I know it wont be competing against other people, but hopefully that thrill of improvement will keep me going somehow.
I just know in 2014, I need to fix this.. it also may be terrible that since I don't watch TV anymore, I watch a lot of esports. And in turn, it makes me want to play games.. I actually prefer watching Dota or SC2 over most normal sports except NFL.. But damn, I think the only way I'll be able to quit is to stop watching those events sadly.
Damn dude, I went through a lot of the same shit lol (an artist struggling with his desire for competitive gaming), and I'm not exactly a shining example of improvement myself, but I felt like I should say something considering how similar my situation is to yours, and how I moved on from my addiction. I apologize for the wal of text in advance, it's a bad habit of mine, but I want to make sure I portray all the details. After I started finding the joy in my art over my video game addiction, I like to rant on about my experiences in hopes that others can have a similar experience and move on too.
I was in the same boat through my college years (from like 18-22/23, im 26 now). I got REALLY into fighting games, Marvel vs Capcom 2 (marvel 2 for short) was my drug. Every second I could play marvel 2, I would play marvel 2. I was also really active in a WoW guild, and raided like 3-4 nights a week.
Now at the same time, my love for illustration kind of sprouted its head (maybe around end of high school). I always drew as a kid, but growing up as a chinese kid, my parents never really nurtured it, they wanted me to get good grades in the normal math, science, history, english, etc etc classes. So I never took art classes as a kid, I never carried a sketchbook around, but I would always end up drawing and writing, with no provocation or reason, just did it because I wanted to.
So anyway, I took my first art class at the end of high school (Senior year) and absolutely fell in fucking love with it. I attended a normal college for a year then transferred to a game design/art college. I started taking art classes and would draw some of the time, but my video game addiction would always rear its ugly head.
So going back to what i mentioned earlier, at the art/design college, that's when I got my first taste of high level marvel vs capcom 2. From there I just absolutely addicted. I wanted to be as good as I could be. Every chance I got to play, I played. Every time I lost, I would just hunger to play more. I would literally play marvel 2 instead of sleeping, and the adrenaline from the 12 hours of play or whatever would just fuel me for the next day. I FUCKING loved that game. AANNND I Was also addicted to Wow. So 2 games that took up pretty much all my time didn't leave much room for me to draw.
I am still embarassed at my younger self for leaving class 5 minutes early to make a raid on time, or telling my art buddies "NAh, im not gonna spend 10 hours on saturday hanging at starbucks practicing figure drawing, I GOT MARVEL TO PLAY!"
After my college, I got hired by a company that starts with B that has some pretty heavy affiliations with this site... It was awesome, I wanted to work there for pretty much my whole life. I got in a game master position, hoping to move my way up to development at some point.
But the gaming addiction stayed. I worked there for about 3 years, and after every day of work, I would go home and play WoW or League of Legends. And after 3 years, I wondered why I didn't have the skills to get into development, when all I did with my time was play video games.
Then the big lay off happened 600 people cut, I was one of them. At that point I had to make a decision in my life of where I wanted to go considering I failed moving up into a position I wanted.
After doing a few more jobs here and there, I finally decided that I wanted to be a creator of my own work. Not make art for someone else's characters, but to make my own characters, story, world, etc.
I started writing and working some ideas that had been in my head for a while, but at this point I really wasn't that skilled of an illustrator and had little to no experience doing comic work (I tried back in high school and it was horrible).
I started looking for an illustrator to do my comic art, but I couldn't pay anyone, and I had a very specific style I wanted. After a few more weeks of unsuccessfully finding an artist, I just tried it again myself, hoping what I learned over my years of college would fucking mean something.
Now the reason I get to this is my whole "improvement" part. My first few pages I hated, they were omega ass. They sucked. But then I looked at successful comic artists, and their early work sucks too, but the differences is they understand its part of the learning process. From there, they just draw and draw and draw the comic, and use the comic as practice and motivation to keep getting better. All of a sudden, their work is way better, and they did it just out of love for their comic.
So I bit the bullet and just fucking went for it. I released my webcomic, the early pages hurt me to see, but I know it's a part of being a successful artist. YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH THAT YOU WILL improve with practice, regardless of what you actually see. I'll link a picture here, and it shows a before and after my my main character, drawn about.. 9 months apart.
During those 9 months, I saw little improvements here and there, but I was sitll worried I wasn't good enough. And then I compared my early work to my current work, and I realized that you just gotta have faith that practicing a skill will make you better at it (what a concept!). I know the feeling you mention, where it takes a long time to improve as an artist but in gaming you get nice little badges that pat you on the back every few days or hours. Which leads me into the next part:
Gratification in video games. I was really able to overcome this finally when I just made peace with myself on how good I was at gaming. My main games right now are marvel vs capcom 3, street fighter 4, and League of Legends (I mostly play league because it was designed for internet play, unlike marvel vs capcom 3).
So I hit gold in League, I still hunger for that diamond rating. But it kind of just came down to setting a goal, and feeling if it's worth it. Each game of league is like 30-50 minutes about. I see some of my friends who are about as good as me (or better), grind to diamond, takes them a few hundred games. etc. etc.
So I calculated what the net worth of that is in my head. IF i average each game is about 40 minutes, and lets say it takes me... 300 games to get me to diamond (as a lot of those will be bouncing ELO up and down), that's... 200 hours of my life, GONE, for what? Some fucking badge? (I'm personally not trying to go pro here). What's the fucking point?! THat's 200 hours of my life that I didn't spend becoming a better artist, 200 hours I didn't spend getting pages done for my comic, 200 hours not developing my characters that I love and that are my property... you get the point.
When I started thinking of it from that perspective, it became a NO brainer when it came to what to spend my time on. My art skills/comic are FAR more important than getting better at league of legends. I started playing/training SMART over hard in league of legends. I still play league (and marvel and street fighter), but my main concern is just to play as best as I can GIVEN how much time I spend playing. No, I am not going to be as good as I would be if I played a lot more. But can I hold my own against people better than me? Yes. Can I have flashes of briliance every once in a while? Yes. Do I make dumb mistakes that I wouldn't have made if I played more? Yes. Do those mistakes eat at me? YES!!!!
But again, this is where the peace comes in. When these mistakes happen, there are 2 ways to go about it. I sit there and I train "smart." I do my best to learn from the mistake that first time it happens. The other path is to go "il just practice until it doesn't happen anymore." Which takes much more time. I'm not doing the 2nd path, so I just say "ill do my best to avoid it again" and I find myself making the mistake much less. Sometimes I still do, and it kills me inside, but again, I come to terms with it going "I'm human, and if I don't put in the effort, I won't be the best, and I am okay with that, because I am happy with my skill level for how much time I put in."
You gotta just... be at peace knowing you won't be as good in sc2, and be at peace knowing that being much better in your music will be MUCH MORE REWARDING both in the here and now and in the future. Honestly, I told myself "If my comic is great, man, why the hell do I care about my rating in league of legends, I can show people my fucking comic that I created myself, and my league of legends rating won't even be dust in the wind to me anymore."
My suggestion to get your artistic drive going is to give yourself a long term project that you actively work toward. My webcomic I plan to run for a few years atleast (like 5 or so, longer if I find a good reason to), and this has given me more drive than I could ever hope for. Before my comic, I would just sketch characters in my sketch book in poses here and there, maybe do a few random designs, and then get bored. BUt now, I have direction, and purpose to my drawing.
Every time I draw, it is bringing my characters more to life, I'm progressing in a story, im fulfilling a dream project of mine. Every night I go to sleep I sit there and think about what to do with my characters next. When I wake up, all I want to do is draw my characters and move on with my story. I can tell you right now, without my comic, I sure as hell wouldn't have this fire to draw as much as I do. I've had friends ask me "how do you find the drive to draw" and I say "simple, I love my comic."
So i really do suggest giving yourself a project, like making a 16 track album or something (i dont relaly know how a musician's mind thinks, but just throwing examples). Keeping track of progression for progressions sake imo gets tedious after a while, it's just like chasing badges in SC2 and shit. I really think a project, an actual project you WILL release, gives all the drive you need. Maybe that covering songs idea and releasing them on your youtube account isn't a bad idea.
And don't get me wrong, I truly know the feeling of gaming. The last job I worked was full time, and on certain days, I would come home and just play League over working on my comic. ANd right now, sometimes I do play league over working on my comic. It's really about moderation. Don't cut the games out of your life, just use them as a relaxation/break between what you really should have passion for, which is your music. I know first hand it's VERY hard to work a full time job and then come home and work on your craft (it's easy to just want to chil and play video games!), I tried doing it for 4 years =P. But again, it just comes down to how bad do you want it. I was able to finally do it near the end of the 4 years, and now that I have more free time on my hands (I saved a lot during those 4 years), I'm making sure I don't let it go to waste, and I'm focusing very hard on improving my craft.
I still watch tons of esports events, but I only use them as supplementary entertainment while I work on my own comic. I watch them, and am at complete peace with "they are the pros, they can entertain through their skill there, and I will entertain through my art skills here." I no longer feel the need to play whichever game I'm watching anymore when watching pros play.
Again, sorry for the wall of text, but I feel that I had to get a lot of the details in to truly illustrate my point, and I didn't really want to be lazy about explaining this stuff when it has a chance to potentially change your whole outlook on your art and what not.
I feel like all the realizations have been made and I know what I have to do, its just putting it all into action. I actually feel 100% done with SC2, no interest to play it at all anymore but all that drive has been replaced with dota 2. That is the big issue now lol - which is even more frustrating because A) games are 3 times longer and B) its a team game, so if my team sucks then I lose also, which is the worst feeling ever. I'm also one of those guys who can't take ending on a loss, so if I lose 5 games in a row, I keep going until I win. That may mean I stay up til 3am and have to work at 6am.. Not good.
But I feel very positive about 2014. I just need to find that balance at least for dota in terms of moderation. Because of the game length, it seems to just eat up 5-6 hours at a time instantly. It's not even that fun when you are teamed with bad pub players, but I know the potential for the game is so awesome and fun that I keep thinking it'll be different next time I play lol Ah..
Oh well, 2014 is a year of many changes for me, and I hope it all adds up. I have upped my guitar playing by double lately so I hope it continues that way.
Ahaha dude, I have the same feelings with League for pretty much the same reasons. A lot of the examples above do translate over to any competitive game, but for sake of Dota 2, I figure I should say some shit from my league experience (they are similar enough when it comes to this stuff).
A) games are 3 times longer
-Yes... they are ahahah. This is definitely a rough spot.
B) its a team game, so if my team sucks then I lose also, which is the worst feeling ever.
-This is another "at peace" moment that you may have to develop. I know this feeling all too well. Even though I've taken a lot of steps to get less mad about this, man it still bothers me when I do well and my teammates suck, but it's a LOT less than before.
How I ended up combating this is to just again, only worrying about how much of my OWN potential I can fulfill. Right now, in most of my losses that happen because of this, I can honestly say after the game "I played well, so I'm fine with that loss."
Now to be real, I'm not ALWAYS like that, there are times where I do feel pretty damn pissed that I did all I could but my team sucked. But that's what you sign up for with a team game... you just gotta hold that.
The whole "end on a win thing" i know ALLLLL too well. This was especially relevant during my marvel vs capcom 2 days, It got to the point wher it became a joke that when I said "last game for this session" my friends would say "you mean 'last game unless you lose'" And then it got to the point where I would feel bad for asking for the extra game, so I would give my friend a last game to redeem himself, and if I lost, well, ANOTHER LAST GAME. We eventually made the rule of, if you win 2 in a row, YOU are the champion of that set, and the loser has to just hold that. Oh man, when I had to hold that, it hurt so bad.
But anyway, going back to Mobas/League/dota, I know this feeling, that "GOD JUST LET ME FUCKING WIN GODDAMMIT" as you queue for the 7th loss in a row, you are on tilt and furious. I've done this before plenty of times lol. This is hard to combat though. Sometimes you just got that hunger lol.
I know what you mean though, especailly when you are on a losing streak, and you get bad pubs, and you know the next 30-50 minutes are going to be SO BORING. What I started doing is just ONLY playing with friends that are as good or better than me, so I know that we can atleast increase the odds of our team not sucking, and it makes the game a social experience also. I found this made the game a lot more fun, and the wins come much more consistently, but I know it's not always possible. Sometimes your friends aren't on or something like that. If my friends aren't on, I just don't play. But then again, I'm not hungry in league anymore. IF you still got that dota 2 hunger... well, I would again suggest that you just "be at peace with your own performance" and move on. I know that's easier said than done though... So... you know yourself hopefully, figure it out ahahah. That's the best you can hope for in the situation imo.
Losing 5-6 hours a day to it is easy... Again, you just gotta combat it by ending it as early as possible (or not playing for that day), or just letting your want to get better at guitar fuel you to just play less dota.
It's good doubled your guitar play, that's a good step, but again, try to get it to the point where it's not about how much time you put in, or it will just devolve into "if i play for X hours,then i have X hours for dota!" FAll in love with your guitar, and get to the point where you play it because you just really really realy realy want to, and you do it over Dota because it's more fun/rewarding to you than dota (sorry Gabe newell).
Anyway I ranted long enough, ur a grown man, u know urself, and some shit I do may no work for you. But I wish u the best of luck with your music. Hopefully your habit changes work out and stay consistent
Snowfall and black0ut, I can relate a lot with your stories as well. This feels like a recovery meeting now. The part about winning is probably a common thing, and it's one of the key components to gambling addiction. I'm not well researched on it but the gist of it is that the gamblers live in a perpetual state of lows; chasing that big win to make them feel good for a night or however long it last. Until they spend all their money and put themself back in their low state so they can chase the big win again. It's never enough. It's like a thrill of the hunt kind of thing.
Anyway, I also am an artist and I was pretty passionate about it ever since I was a kid until I got into competitive gaming which took over everything I was involved in (which was good and bad). And then I discovered pro gaming and all I wanted to do was play at that level and possibly cash in on that. Really in hindsight, it felt more important just to do something different and interesting (most people have no idea what goes on with games at all). Like you could imagine yourself at a party or something and people would ask "So what do you do?" and have the envy of almost every person. However, the reality of that is that progaming is ridiculously time consuming and you sacrifice your soul and normal life and social learning to do that. I realized this long ago, but you will still justify it because it's better than going out drinking with your idiot friends right? The other reality of it is that very very few people make it into pro gaming or something esports related. And you have to ask yourself, is their life even all that good? Even commentators etc, is their life fulfilled any more than anyone else? We don't know what goes on in their personal endeavors, if they even have a personal life. Not trying to put anyone down, but I'm just saying nothing lasts forever and the whole gaming this is a big question mark. No one knows what will happen with the industry etc. What good is all the fame and money if you can't use it, or you can't enjoy it. You won't ever have a real relationship because the only woman who will put up with that lifestyle probably has issues (co-dependent or otherwise).
I never got into the whole team game side of gaming. I always preferred solo games, or one on one style games. The most I will play on my own is 2v2, and even then I just can't stand having to rely on partners. It just enrages me to play my absolute best and notice that the opponents are both half the skill of I but a sorry partner is just like straight noob status and bring it down. So team games, especially long moba style ones are just zero appeal to me. And same with fantasy games where you have a guild and do team raids etc. It's just zero satisfaction even if your team was all made of your clones somehow. It's just coordinating all the people and shit is a hassle and not fun to me. Also it doesn't feel like you 'won' either if you just beat a bunch of other shitty players. It's all hollow. Pretty much the only times I ever played teamed games is with IRL friends via lan or over skype and I don't even try 100% because I know it doesn't matter. It's just casual gaming at that point.
I digress, I was always drawing ever since I was a kid. In 4th grade I won a competition to see a famous cartoonist (I wanted to do cartoons), Ray Nelson, who taught us tricks and techniques to drawing cartoon faces and stuff like that. He even gave me a couple sheets of his sketches on the giant paper rolls to take home (I wonder if they are still around somewhere). And I would draw and doodle all up until about 11th grade when I got really invested into BW. And then It just tapered off.
I have been picking up the art stuff more again in the past year + and tbh, it's not all that great either. Sure I can get paid here and there, but it's hard to be passionate about something that isn't consistent or fulfilling. I mean I guess the only thing I can say is just keep practicing and forcing your own luck but when do you come to the conclusion that you're not that great or not exactly what people are interested in and to move on. And then where do you go? I've noticed that most of my endeavors gravitate me towards things that are not mainstream and often bordering criminal and/or not accepted by society.
Enough with the depressing truths. @ Colbert, Here is a related movie I just watched about the sex/porn addiction stuff earlier. It's not that great of a movie, but it's pretty solid on reality.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dI18Zfi.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r1XotLE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ulyBqB6.png)
? that 96% or whatever it was turns into 100%
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Sw9KOd5.jpg)
