On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
Sure, but i think that was just because you had nothing better or more fun to do. Imagine you go on vacation (beach,drinks, girls, whatever you consider fun and desirable) for 6 months. I am sure you would not think about gaming a single day.
He seems to be a good speaker, and surely touches on some important aspects. However, for most of us, video games are not a problem to be overcome, and learning "how to stop playing forever" is not on our agenda. In the way he is presenting, I can't help but feeling discriminated against: I play around 10 hours of video gamesStarcraft a week, which is a perfectly fine hobby and certainly not a problem to be overcome.
Even accepting the general tone for a moment, I must admitt that most of his points are pretty trivial.
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments! I’m the speaker and I’m happy to answer any questions and contribute to the dialogue here.
Thanks to the OP for posting the video!
I guess off the top I want to clarify two positions:
1. I’m definitely not against gaming. I think too often the conversation revolves around whether games are good or bad, which really is a pointless debate since it’s all relative. For me it’s merely about helping those who WANT to quit but DON’T KNOW HOW. In my experience, there is a rather large community of these people. I really just want to help.
I think because the conversation nowadays is focused on games being good or bad it actually hurts you guys who ARE ABLE to play in a way that doesn’t negatively impact the rest of your life. I’d love to have an impact on changing that conversation so you guys can play without people being on your back all the time.
2. I’m not a fan of the word addiction. Unfortunately within main stream society that word gets a lot more attention, so the talk ended up revolving around that. On the technical side of whether video games can be addicting or not, the bible of addictions, the DSM-5 recently came out with a special note to do more research on internet gaming addiction, so although it’s not technically a diagnosable addiction, in the next few years it will be. I’m certain of it. Also again, I don’t like the fact that someone will be “diagnosed” and at the end of my speech you hear me talk about that. Again, don’t really care for the addiction word, just want to help people who want help.
@ Leopoldshark - Replacement behavior is definitely something that occurs when you quit an addiction. The argument would be that you can replace it with something more in line with a healthy lifestyle - since the reason you would be quitting the addiction of video games is because it’s negatively impacting your life. For example, I ended up quitting games and instead went out 7 nights a week for 3 years working on my social skills. This wasn’t necessarily the healthiest alternative, but that propelled me into many other things I do now such as DJing (huge passion of mine) and entrepreneurship. When I first quit gaming it essentially took me around 3 years to get to a place of being able to balance out my life. Moderation is achievable but I do believe it’s easy to view it as a more logical sequence, when the motivation to play games is an emotional response. It’s not that moderation isn’t achievable, it’s that the process to get there is rarely as simple as it appears. In many addictions, a relative period of detox is necessary before coming BACK to the activity in a more moderate way.
The progression system is one of the big elements for sure. It’s a very addicting process. The perfect example of it is a web game called cookie clicker. That’s one of the main elements of the game and it’s hugely addictive for a period of time. I played SC, CS 1.6, WoW and Dota mainly, and then CoD. Thanks for your input!
@ AutomatronOmega - I definitely think you can be addicted to pot.
@ Soan - The talk was 6 minutes so it was very difficult to address all the key points in-depth. I was trying to make key points known (moderation is fine as an example) while trying to address everything else as well (how to stop for players, how to stop for parents, the scale of the problem, my own story, etc). One of the main points of the whole talk was that this was for people who wanted to stop. If you want to stop and you continue to play, yes games are bad. But if you don’t want to stop, who am I to say you shouldn’t game?
@ Djzapz - Thank you for noticing this part of my speech. It was one of the key points I was trying to make so it’s great to hear it was noticed.
@ Entertaining - I think there are a lot of other activities to do… if you want to stop playing games. One of the patterns I’ve noticed is that with how young people start playing games nowadays they’ve actually rarely even tried to develop other hobbies growing up, so many many many people that feel like there’s nothing better to do have yet to experience anything else. Just an observation.
@ rezoacken - Thanks for sharing. I would look even deeper behind the sleep pattern. There’s a difference between having an obligation to get up and having a purpose for getting up. Having an obligation is living life as it happens to you, having a purpose for getting up is living your life on your own terms.
@ [GiTM]-Ace - Thanks for commenting. Thorakh nailed it with his response!
@ obesechicken13 - Thanks for sharing the article link, it’s still amazing to see the comments on that article each day. I definitely obviously disagree that I’m one of those life motivators who are scamming people out of money. I understand it’s likely that you’ve had a negative experience towards that, which is unfortunate, but although there are a lot of bad people in the world scamming people, I’m not one of them. I certainly would not have responded to every comment on that article (of which I get paid $0 for) if it were otherwise. I think part of the argument that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having fun and being happy. Many people who WANT TO STOP aren’t actually happy playing games, they’re miserable. They don’t WANT to continue playing games, so who are you to say they should continue?
@ Thorakh - Not sure if I agree that talking about the addiction is detracting from the issues, because creating this conversation allows the next question to happen: why are they addicted? which brings in the answers of being lonely, anxious, depressed, etc, of which you can now try to help instead of the contrast (no conversation) in which you don’t even get to the questions of how can you help someone with their social skills, because there’s no awareness that it’s even a problem.
@ StatixEx - I definitely understand a lot of your argument. I disagree that people grow out of it. Some do, certainly, but many don’t, and I’d rather not hope that people grow out of it. I’d rather be proactive in helping them if they want help to move on from games. Also, you won’t die from quitting games, but it can have other negative side affects similar to other addictions such as irratibillity, etc.
@ ayaz2810 - It all comes down to whether that’s the life you want to live or not, which is 100% your choice to make. If it is, that’s awesome and I’m stoked for you, if not, happy to help!
@ KT_Perry - Definitely can be a phase, I agree! The stimulation side of the equation is very important to understand. The type of stimulation you have in games is very different than real-life interactions which is one of the reasons why it can feel like everything else is so boring!
@ Parnage - I think you’re fine.
@ Biology]major - I agree.
@ NIJ - Yes, gambling has many of the same characteristics. I like your example of some people being ok with it and some not.
@ aTnClouD - Haha thanks for your comment dude. It can be good for some of course. The point is: for people who WANT to stop, they deserve to have help with it. If you want to play, play. Let’s get over the whole, “are games good or bad” debate. THAT is what’s pointless.
@ obesechicken13 - I do state that clearly in my article. I’m not sure if I did in the TEDx talk but one of the reasons was because I was speaking to a crowd of parents and non-gamers, so I had to keep the talk relevant to them. I wwanted to talk about the scale of the problem, not merely about how to quit. Also, TEDx is free, so turning a profit isn’t really that relevant. Take TEDxYouth for example, those kids have no career obligations for their speech.
@ Birdie - Thank you for continuing to remind everyone of the point of that talk!
@ Ricjames - Potentially, but I do remember a summer vacation I went on to Europe when I was younger that I was miserable on because I wanted to be home gaming.
@ C[h]ili - Thanks! I tried to do my best to actually help current gamers feel LESS discriminated against. That’s my pursuit anyways. Thanks for the feedback!
On October 24 2013 09:52 NIJ wrote: It's really no different from gambling, Some people can enjoy themselves a great weekend in vegas or atlantic city. some people best stay away from that shit unless they wanna lose their home, marriage, job etc.
NO, video games are totally different compared to gambling. I am sorry, but you have no idea what are you talking about. As some people here said, you can't get mentally addicted to video games. I have played games since i was a kid and i have never felt addicted to them. I could quit any day and stay without playing for as long as i wished. At age 18-22 i hardly played any games at all as i was busy with other things that time more important for me. I don't think you can become addicted to gaming. You just do it because you have nothing more fun or better to do (or you are lazy to study or work so you play instead), whereas addiction is somethng you must do or you feel many symptoms that drive you crazy.
You may not be addicted but that doesn't mean that others aren't. I tried to quit gaming once and I lasted for about a month before returning. It felt like an itch that had to be scratched.
Sure, but i think that was just because you had nothing better or more fun to do. Imagine you go on vacation (beach,drinks, girls, whatever you consider fun and desirable) for 6 months. I am sure you would not think about gaming a single day.
I disagree, back when I played Runescape it was literally always on my mind. The nature of the game makes it so you have to grind a ridiculous amount of hours to get anything in the game, so I was always trying to spend as much time possible playing the game. Even while I was on vacation or doing some other activity that I truthfully enjoyed, I always felt guilty that I was losing hours that I could have put into the game instead. Luckily the developers made a bunch of changes that killed the game for me or else it would have taken me a lot longer to quit.
On October 24 2013 23:16 Colbert wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the comments! I’m the speaker and I’m happy to answer any questions and contribute to the dialogue here.
Thanks to the OP for posting the video!
Thanks for coming by, I enjoyed the ted talk. Obviously you couldn't go into much depth in a 6 minute talk but I think identifying the cause of the addiction in accordance to the 4 reasons you listed is only step one of overcoming the addiction, and it is a small step at that. The real challenge comes in starting from scratch while trying to find other activities outside of gaming that can fill in those slots. I've seen it mentioned you have a blog on the topic, do you go into this aspect more there, or would you be able to elaborate more here?
Wow this is amazing that the TED speaker dropped by our forums :D.
I thought it was a very nice, straightforward and reasonable talk. On the addiction point, I think its understandable to say that it doesn't matter that much as ultimately there's a problem either way that needs to be dealt with. But sometimes words can actually help people take notice of when something has grown into a particularly damaging problem, which is why I think not so long ago the American medical association have been calling for labelling obesity as a disease so that people take notice that its actually a very serious problem, particularly in countries like Korea where video games are very entrenched in their culture at a young age, and easily accessible.
I can't watch the video from China, but I was addicted to the competitive side of gaming in many different formats, over a number of years that I should have been focusing on study.
I also had no sense of direction on what I wanted to do with my life and everything hit a dead end.
In the end I just moved to China to help children learn English and I've not looked back. I'm happy to say I eventually found my way in life. I still replace gaming addiction with other addictions though.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
He implied multiple times videogames are bad and that's the message he was trying to convey in the whole thing.
He implied video games are bad for people who are addicted and aren't able to do anything else with their lives because of it. In fact he stated he wanted to avoid the conversation of whether or not games are bad in general, and just stick to the problem of addiction.
On October 24 2013 11:13 aTnClouD wrote: I believe this talk was horrible and pointless. I don't like the fact that he says he wants people to stop playing videogames because he failed at whatever he was doing and is using them as an excuse. I could also say that games did so much good to my life that they should be promoted as a school activity to teach better problem solving, communication and social skills. So who's right?
He never said people should stop playing video games.
He implied multiple times videogames are bad and that's the message he was trying to convey in the whole thing.
He implied video games are bad for people who are addicted and aren't able to do anything else with their lives because of it. In fact he stated he wanted to avoid the conversation of whether or not games are bad in general, and just stick to the problem of addiction.
Exactly. Also he very clearly pointed out that gaming to have fun in spare time is alright. It is when you ignore life's obligations such as sleep, work, social life, school work that is when it gets out of hand. He never said they in themselves were bad or spending time playing them is bad, but at which level you spend playing them could be bad.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think addiction has more to do with dopamine release than anything else.
Which basically means you can be addicted to a whooooole bunch of stuff. Doing something obsessively because it feels good usually means an addiction (but you only call it that if the activity in question is destructive).
Simply quitting whatever you are addicted to is never the answer (unless were talking serious physical addictions, then in soem cases yes).
If you dont fix what got you into that behaviour in the first place you didnt fix anything. Whether your the guy that only playes video games, or the guy that only talks about having quit video games, same shit different day.
Most cases "addicts" simply dont have to do anything in their life, or no idea what to, and "addictive" things always provide sure short term entertainment.
On October 24 2013 23:16 Colbert wrote: @ obesechicken13 - Thanks for sharing the article link, it’s still amazing to see the comments on that article each day. I definitely obviously disagree that I’m one of those life motivators who are scamming people out of money. I understand it’s likely that you’ve had a negative experience towards that, which is unfortunate, but although there are a lot of bad people in the world scamming people, I’m not one of them. I certainly would not have responded to every comment on that article (of which I get paid $0 for) if it were otherwise. I think part of the argument that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having fun and being happy. Many people who WANT TO STOP aren’t actually happy playing games, they’re miserable. They don’t WANT to continue playing games, so who are you to say they should continue?
@ obesechicken13 - I do state that clearly in my article. I’m not sure if I did in the TEDx talk but one of the reasons was because I was speaking to a crowd of parents and non-gamers, so I had to keep the talk relevant to them. I wwanted to talk about the scale of the problem, not merely about how to quit. Also, TEDx is free, so turning a profit isn’t really that relevant. Take TEDxYouth for example, those kids have no career obligations for their speech.
Speaker was right about one thing. We waste too much time and effort arguing about whether gaming addiction is real.
It was unexpected that he actually commented in this thread.
Why would I be missing that point on happiness? I clearly state that I've had my own problems with video game addiction. There are definitely those that are ok with how much they game and who do not feel they are messing up their lives for the forseeable future.
It's not my place to decide whether people should continue gaming. It's not yours either. Who are you to write contrary to all of the popular beliefs about addiction? When you join olganon, the video game addiction forums, one of their steps is to have friends help you out. (Step 7) and these steps are taken by people who have addictions to alcohol and other drugs. How does someone quit gaming when one aspect of their lives is suffering if they have motivation in that aspect of their life to motivate them to quit?
Where has your advice been proven empirically to actually work?
Your TEDx talk is fine since you're talking about scale but TED as a whole behaves like a cult. TL would be different if we were all told after every discussion to spread the word about the site "Ideas worth sharing" and honest criticism was immediately attacked or ignored, not argued.
How the hell does TED make money then?
People make AMAs on reddit to advertise their things. I found this on your blog.
Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
On October 25 2013 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
Well it has everything to do with video games when looking at the number of people who play video games vs other hobbies. It doesn't mean they're a waste of time or that they're bad, but it does mean that people are probably more likely to be addicted to video games than most other hobbies these days.
On October 25 2013 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Video games are the socially acceptable target to go after but let's be honest here. Have you ever talked to your friends that don't play video about what they do in their free time? These are the answers most of the time
1. TV shows (netflix/recording/etc make this really easy) 2. Partying/bars/clubbing 3. insert random hobby here
None of these are intrinsically more fulfilling or a better use of time. Just do what you enjoy doing and realize that you have a problem when you can't meet basic life needs due to your hobby.
That is pretty much the bottom line and has nothing to do with video games.
Well it has everything to do with video games when looking at the number of people who play video games vs other hobbies. It doesn't mean they're a waste of time or that they're bad, but it does mean that people are probably more likely to be addicted to video games than most other hobbies these days.
c'mon dude you really think more kids play video games then watch TV ? that 96% or whatever it was turns into 100%
On October 24 2013 07:28 obesechicken13 wrote: I read this guys blog a few years back. He sounds like one of those life motivators who make money tricking people into thinking that his advice is helping them. Here it is by the way: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/how-to-quit-playing-video-games/
His advice wasn't really any better for me. I didn't find anything I wanted to spend my time doing at home. Getting a hobby like making toothpick sculptures is just as unproductive as gaming. Not too relevant, but he looks like a scumbag the way he wears his hat, which instantly makes me not trust him.
In my freshmen year of college and for a few years in high school I played a lot of games. There was a huge part of me that didn't really want to but other parts rationalized it. And once I got started I didn't stop for hours on end. My life suffered quite a bit. I went to counselors at school and talked on Olganon and tried 50+ time management tricks and tools. And then I met a girl that I liked in second year. I stopped playing almost cold turkey after that. More of that in one of my blogs.
Since then I've realized that being a gamer is who I am. I've had some problem days but it's never gotten so bad that I've found myself gaming till 5am on a school night again. I think I can say it's gotten better every year.
In the end you have to be ok with what you do. There are definitely pro gamers who play games all day and they are happy with their lifestyle and they make enough money for now. Perhaps that will change for them in the future or perhaps they'll make enough they can retire. They'll deal with the future when they get to it, but for now they're happy with spending more time than I did on games.
It sounds like his advice and the advice of your counsellors just didn't really work out for you, but I'd be hesitant to assume that that means that all advice given to you during that time was bad advice. Unfortunately we can't all get that magic bullet of a positive relationship that you seem to have found.
That being said, the bit about gamer being a part of your (or my) identity is spot on. I've found myself caught in that paradox a few times now where I want to do other things to find myself but then realize that when I am my most genuine is when I'm involved in gaming.
EPT
I think part of the argument that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having fun and being happy. Many people who WANT TO STOP aren’t actually happy playing games, they’re miserable. They don’t WANT to continue playing games, so who are you to say they should continue?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r1XotLE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ulyBqB6.png)
? that 96% or whatever it was turns into 100%
