It found that people who were vaccinated against THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza were 1% less likely to develop the flu not vaccinated against than people unvaccinated. This still means that vaccination AGAINST THE WRONG STRAIN of influenza was helpful against ANY TYPE OF FLU.
In correct vaccinations, 99% OF PEOPLE VACCINATED DID NOT DEVELOP THE FLU.
These studies were done on a sample size of ~70,000 at the 95% confidence interval and it is unlikely that their results are due to chance.
So, to bring this point home using your logic, comparing it to the 8% effectiveness of Vitamin D3, vaccination against the flu is 1200% as effective as Vitamin D3 in preventing influenza.
On November 18 2013 06:21 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Good science in the modern times is rare.
lol, sheep
You're trying to undermine the studies that I presented but those people that presented and conducted those studies are much more reputable than some random online forum video game poster will ever be. It's not going to work with me buddy, what you're saying to undermine it is all bs.
There are multiple studies that indicate that Vitamin D is more efficient than the flu vaccine.
You just don't want to believe in the data that I presented to you (Can't blame you, after all that would mean you wasted around 6 years in school just to make big pharma even more money, I'd be very defensive like you as well.)
Keep being a sheep that only believes in prescription medication.
Also, the flu vaccine is not 100% effective, get that out of your head.
Go back to eating your fatty foods and taking Prozac.
Sigh, both of you shut up and get this thread back on topic. We're not here to talk about the validity of medicine vs fish oil vs counseling vs meditation. We're here to talk about video game "addiction" and the video posted by the OP.
Come on guys. Sj's either a troll or someone who's not worth having discourse with. Lets move this derail along. It was funny, but now it's just getting sad.
One of the aspects I'm trying to identify further is the role parents can play.
Now, what I'm interested in is how parents can play a POSITIVE role in helping you overcome your "video game addiction".
As you heard in the TEDx talk, I very specifically called out parents for being part of the problem, and that instead of constantly blaming their kids they should take more responsibility.
So, if you had come to the conclusion that you wanted to move on from games, how could your parents help you?
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
I appreciate your feedback
Let's break down the definition of disease:
1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
2.(Medicine / Pathology) any impairment of normal physiological function affecting all or part of an organism, esp a specific pathological change caused by infection, stress, etc., producing characteristic symptoms; illness or sickness in general.
Does addiction meet this criteria? Well, it really depends on who you ask. Whether or not addiction is a disease is a hot debate. We do know that an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex leads to a higher risk for addiction and that the propensity for addiction does run in families much like cancer, heart disease, and high blood pressure. However, unlike most diseases addiction does not have a biologically degenerative process or a pathological biological process.
Addiction occurs when your brain is running its standard reward system process and dealing with desensitization (also known as tolerance) to maintain homeostasis (sameness, think thermostat). Continually stimulating dopamine receptors in the brain's pleasure center leads to the brain taking steps to prevent over-stimulation by reducing the number of receptors, thus it takes more of the addictive behavior to trigger the same response. The brain is doing what it needs to do to maintain homeostasis, the person is choosing behaviors that continue to exacerbate this process.
@ MarlieChurphy - Thanks for your input. I like that “addiction is defined by its consequences.”
The talk was a short snippet of my understanding. I’m sure you can understand that during a 6 minute presentation there’s a certain topic you focus on and that’s it. For me, it was encouraged to be my personal story. I’m unsure what “rationalization” you are talking about, nor do I still view myself as a gaming addict in any way.
This story happened many years ago and I’ve fully moved on to a new chapter in my life. The response from the article 2 years ago has been overwhelming, so I feel a responsibility to help shed light onto a community that is looking for help.
Yea np, I listen to Dr. Drew podcasts old radio stuff etc. He is a board certified internist and addiction medicine specialist. He says it all the time and it's a very valid definition of addiction. There are a couple other explanations he often gets into to help people who are struggling understand, and he does it much better than I. Maybe check out his free podcast. http://podcastone.com/Dr-Drew-Show
I understand you can only fit so much in, what I meant by rationalization is that it's common for addicts (especially intelligent ones) to logically break things down and understand them and think they have beaten it, when just understanding doesn't do it alone. For example you just said you are not an addict anymore, but any addict going to a group with a sponsor for anything else will always tell you that they are an addict for life, they have just been sober or off their vice for X time.
One thing common for addicts to do as well, is to say they have it under control and can have just a little bit. That's always where it starts. A heroin addict will just have 1 drink at the bar or something along those lines and eventually work their way back up into their drug of choice or replace it with a new drug all together. I have personally seen this happen myself.
PS- This is something I have thought a lot about lately. I think there is a lot of misconception about addictions and gaming already to begin with in their own respective categories. When you put them together people get everything totally fucked up. It's just another thing that needs to be looked into in a case by case basis and people need to be aware of.
Thanks for the link, I'll check out his stuff.
To be honest, what you've stated about addicts is one of the fundamental disagreements I have with the addiction community. I would go as far to say that neither would be able to "prove" unconditionally that they are correct, so it simply comes down to the type of mindset you want to live your life in, but I disagree completely that addicts in general are "addicts for life" and must view themselves as "having a disease" that they will never be able to move on from, "etc".
I simply refuse to view my life from this type of fear based thinking, and discourage anybody else from doing it as well. By no means does this imply that I move forward in my life naive to the negative impact games have had on my life, but I don't need to allow them to produce so much fear in my life. Frankly, I could easily continue to game and not have it impact my life as it did before.
I have a cousin who's an alcoholic so don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that every "addict" can take this same mentality to their addictions, but in my own circumstances, this is certainly the case. I refuse to identify with being an addict because it's a fear-based mindset.
I appreciate your feedback
It's not a matter of opinion though. It's in the DSM-V and there are plenty of facts and studies that prove addiction is real and it is a disease and this disease can be activated in many ways and take many forms. I think it was Dr. Drew who didn't like the term addiction himself because of the connotations and misunderstandings of the problem, he wanted to change the name to RAD, reward activation disorder iirc.
Side note, he also mentions something about many or all of his certain addiction patients have ADD. And that in order to get clean they have to also stop all those medications as well. I don't know if that is you, but you might want to look into that.
A lot of people like to argue that it's not a disease any more than being fat is a disease (which in a lot of cases, is a disease as well). You have to ask yourself, can you even define the word correctly? Technically a disease could even be losing your arm in a car accident. Essentially people are born with genes for a predisposition towards addiction. Once they become triggered, then the disease is active; In the same way that you can be predisposed to cancer, and once a cell is triggered it starts to grow. The only difference that people get up in arms about is the fact that you are 'willingly feeding' your disease, which is not the case. Addicts are not in control, and that is the point. The brain's reward/pleasure center becomes hijacked. The nucleus accumbens becomes flooded with dopamine, the amygala creates a conditioned response, and the hippocampus remembers the rapid state of satisfaction. After repeated use, your brain rewires itself to be more efficient at whatever it is used to doing. You know, like 'practice makes permanent'. It also changes the structure of the brain and with specific things actually causes brain damage. It overloads certain pathways through all of this and uses too much of your chemicals leaving you low or imbalanced. Dopamine, seratonin, melanin, or reducing neurotransmitter receptors all together. Which is why people often need more and more to reach their goal level of pleasure/satisfaction.
With all that being said, yes there are people out there who are predisposed addicts who come from good upbringing who were never exposed to the terrible side of their genes (this is where nature and nurture come together). Some of these people willfully avoid high risk behaviors knowing their family history. Some of these people do not know and may end up seeking out other more socially acceptable risky highly arousing risky behaviors. You know like free climbing, skydiving, motorsports, sex, etc. This is why you may sometimes hear people (at least in my area I hear it a lot) say things like "I'm addicted to piericings", or "I'm itching to get some new ink already!", when body mods cost a shit load of money and they are as poor as me.
Anyway, I digress, One of the key components in recovery is just to assume the position of faith that something else is in control and you are not in control and you never were.
PS- If you have a cousin who is an alcoholic then there you go. The gene is in your family ties and you probably have it. Whether you want to admit it exists or live without fear of it is up to you, all I can say is be aware of high risk behaviors as they may replace each other via 'scumbag brain' rewiring your pleasure centers more efficiently.
Btw, the theory as to why people have this gene/mutation evolutionarily speaking is that these people are arguably better humans than those who aren't. They are the first people to drop everything and go into a fire and search for someone crying for help. The first to engage in combat. The people who can stay calm and focused where others would be pissing themselves. These are the people who are evolutionarily wired to immediately, without thought (because the brain gives them the pleasure/satisfaction reward), go to help others in preserving the race as a whole. That 'high'.
@ NEOtheONE - Thanks for the info. I can certainly see how it would be a hot debate in the scientific community.
@ MarlieChurphy - The ADD debate is incredibly interesting. I’m not currently on any ADD medication and have 0 plans to ever be on it again. If there’s anything I’ve found more addicting than anything else in my entire life, it’s ADD medication. Just watch the movie “Limitless” if you want to see the type of experience you can have on that medication. When I watch Limitless I see a guy on Adderall.
I appreciate the info you provide. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on the porn addiction debate and how it relates to video game “addiction”.
Do you believe what the speaker says about how after 90 days of a detox your brain chemistry begins to alter back to its normal form, away from the addiction type responses?
As far as ADD goes, I really think that attention span and related "disorders" all fall on a spectrum. About ten doctors in my childhood said I didn't have ADD, and then one guy did and so I went on some medication for a while (concerta) that did absolutely nothing for me and then dropped it and moved on with my life. Most people I know have been told at some point that they have ADD, and I think in a lot of ways it's kind of a matter of opinion, and rarely blck and white.
On November 18 2013 11:24 Uncultured wrote: Come on guys. Sj's either a troll or someone who's not worth having discourse with. Lets move this derail along. It was funny, but now it's just getting sad.
What's sadder is all the people who jumped in to defend him.
@ MarlieChurphy - The ADD debate is incredibly interesting. I’m not currently on any ADD medication and have 0 plans to ever be on it again. If there’s anything I’ve found more addicting than anything else in my entire life, it’s ADD medication. Just watch the movie “Limitless” if you want to see the type of experience you can have on that medication. When I watch Limitless I see a guy on Adderall.
I appreciate the info you provide. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on the porn addiction debate and how it relates to video game “addiction”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
Do you believe what the speaker says about how after 90 days of a detox your brain chemistry begins to alter back to its normal form, away from the addiction type responses?
Very interesting. I was just talking about how novelty and variety is a core STRONG drive in male brain in someone's girl blog. I think I may just join this nofap reddit for science purposes. Although, I may actually be addicted to the internet and games myself which would just fill that void anyways.
As far as the 90 days thing, yes. As long as there is no permanent brain damage, as drugs like: LSD, meth, ecstacy, inhalants, etc., cause, then our brain will naturally rewire itself to whatever we begin filling it with. Other drugs that do no cause brain damage are better at dealing with this of course, heroin, cocaine, marijauna, etc. Although, obviously some of these drugs are part of a stronger reward mechanism and also effect the entire nervous system more, so they reactivated just as easily during a relapse.
A rather interesting note about heroin actually, is that there are no long term side effects of it, and no real permanent damage is done from it's use. The only real issues are: an overdose which can kill you by shutting down your body's normal programs, sharing diseased needles, mixing with other drugs, or getting infections. Which is exactly why opiates are so great and useful to medicine.
Marijauna is a good example, because often times MA recovering addicts will all the sudden be able to remember where they left their keys or sunglasses, or other notable improvements in daily activities. And many users who started chronic addiction with pot before the brain was done fully developing (prefontal cortex isn't done til about 25) will resume where they left off and their mentality and everything can begin to change dramatically.
I actually wonder if something similar in the brain with pot, also happens with other "soft" addictions like internet, games, porn, etc. I also think it's important to not that there is a difference between porn and sex addiction though. SA is often people who are spending lots of money at porn shops, on hookers, having unprotected sex, doing dangerous sexual things, committing crimes etc. Sex addicts can start out from porn obviously though.
The most interesting thing about that talk for me though is the symptoms of it, I probably have a couple, and the long term ED thing is a bit of a kick in the ass (I wouldn't want that to happen to me later on in life O_O ). And the fact that the figures change based on the suspected reason that high speed internet porn was introduced after these men were adults versus the teens who grew up with it. I am actually in a group of very unique males where (high speed) internet didn't become mainstream until about half way through my porn career. I started out on playboys and videos, then there was like 56k pictures and short 10 second clips (that took hours to DL), and it wasn't until I was in my late teens did it become the norm.
Here is a great video on (porn) addiction, and how it rewires and hijacks the brain.
I used to be addicted to porn, which slowly escalated to sex, given my intelligience, I was able to break down all the bullshit surround the PUA community and do what works for me etc... I eventually had this lifestyle where I was have sex, coming from orgasms at least 4 times a day. Suffice to say, no other drug (coke, addy, mj, lsd) can beat that high for me (hav enot tried heroin), which is pretty neat! SC is pretty high up there too, but eventually I'll realize where my true ambitions lie :D
It's excessively hard for me to see things like video games and sex as "addictions" in the traditional sense of the word. I feel like calling things like having lots of sex or playing lots of video games "addictions", just serves to detract from "real" addictions like opiates, benzodiazepines etc... It honestly feels like we are somewhat trying to give a disorder, disease or addiction to everything in this thread, all of which is by the way being self-diagnosed.
I don't know, it just sounds insanely weird to me for someone to suggest video games as an addiction and I cringed possibly harder than I ever had before when he stated that he "quit cold-turkey" like he was quitting something with actual withdrawal effects. It honestly sounded like complete shit when he continues on about how people want to quit video games so bad but can't, which is entirely fallacious, especially when you consider people who have "actual" addictions who can quit and don't just sit there feeling sorry for themselves.
Yes, I watched the video and yes I know that he said we're spending too much time trying to figure out whether this is a disease or not etc... Which is insanely ironic considering his infliction, tone and the title of his speech which dictates that with complete certainty video game addiction exists.
EPT
