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Russia's population is deteriorating rapidly. Russias elites see homosexuality as a threat to natural growth (the question whether this view is valid is another thing). They need to boost their natural growth for several reasons, to compete with China, to sustain their meracantylic economic policies, to combat the growth of influnce of their non-white muslim caucas based part of popultion and so on. Theres also the isuue of growing influence of church in their internal policy (and Putin needs its suport). Also their general population is highly conservative and mostly support anti homosexual sentiment. On top of that its a nice issue to which they shift public focus in order to hide their icomptence and corruption.
So they have plenty of reasons for their policies, their governament actualy works in favor of what its percives as countrys best interest.
Edit:Homosexuality and natural growth: Governamnt as such (and Russia's especially) isnt concerned with Your happiness. As long as You are not rioting they dont care if You are happy or in pain. From their point of view, suffering homosexual who creates standard family and have children (as most of them did before the era of sexual emancypation) is more desirable citizen than happy homosexual with no children. As explained before they need to boost their natural growth, and this and similiar reasoning are partialy behind their actions.
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On August 02 2013 15:22 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm Is this really bad sarcasm? I'm confused. Who are you even arguing against, or do you always just throw up insanely ridiculous strawmen?
No one. Merely pointing out the repercussions of sexual equality among the orientations.
My /sarcasm was intended to address my disagreement that nothing wrong would happen.
Being a victim of preteen male-on-male sexual molestation disqualifies me from any unbiased view I'm afraid.
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On August 02 2013 07:01 teddyoojo wrote:
in soviet russia, time moves backwards...
I wish I could say it was just Russia that was true for.
I read about new laws being passed all the time in my country (not my state thankfully) that this is just as true for.
Sad really. Frustrating too.
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On August 02 2013 15:45 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:22 rd wrote:On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm Is this really bad sarcasm? I'm confused. Who are you even arguing against, or do you always just throw up insanely ridiculous strawmen? No one. Merely pointing out the repercussions of sexual equality among the orientations. My /sarcasm was intended to address my disagreement that nothing wrong would happen. Being a victim of preteen male-on-male sexual molestation disqualifies me from any unbiased view I'm afraid.
Just clarifying whether or not your sarcasm was bad or the post itself with sarcasm was bad, which more importantly re-begs the questions: Who are you arguing against that is proposing children view gay pornography, and what do you hope to accomplish with an ignorant strawman that couldn't possibly be more irrelevant?
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Northern Ireland25771 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:41 Silvanel wrote:
Russia's population is deteriorating rapidly. Russias elites see homosexuality as a threat to natural growth (the question whether this view is valid is another thing). They need to boost their natural growth for several reasons, to compete with China, to sustain their meracantylic economic policies, to combat the growth of influnce of their non-white muslim caucas based part of popultion and so on. Theres also the isuue of growing influence of church in their internal policy (and Putin needs its suport). Also their general population is highly conservative and mostly support anti homosexual sentiment. On top of that its a nice issue to which they shift public focus in order to hide their icomptence and corrupotion.
So they have plenty of reasons for their policies, their governament actualy works in favor of what its percives as countrys best interest.
Edit:Homosexuality and natural growth: Governamnt as such (and Russia's especially) isnt concerned with Your happiness. As long as You are not rioting they dont care if You are happy or in pain. From their point of view, suffering homosexual who creates standard family and have children (as most of them did before the era of sexual emancypation) is more desirable citizen than happy homosexual with no children. As explained before they need to boost their natural growth, and this and similiar reasoning are partialy behind their actions.
I had jokingly proposed this earlier, you seem a bit more knowledgeable on the issue mind! How are things such as drug and alcohol abuse tackled, is it something that is a big deal over there?
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Austria24420 Posts
Some things never change. People are still too dumb to make use of their power in a democracy correctly. At least that's what I keep telling myself. Fuck me if this is actually a reflection of what the majority of Russians want.
A "democracy", ofc. We all know Russia isn't really one anymore.
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Oh my God, I knew it was a bad idea to read through this thread, but I did it anyway.
Also, somehow Hitler was mentioned. Internet never fails.
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Northern Ireland25771 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:58 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Oh my God, I knew it was a bad idea to read through this thread, but I did it anyway.
Also, somehow Hitler was mentioned. Internet never fails.
Sometimes, just sometimes it's vaguely relevant, in this case the 'Peace Games' of 1936 and the lack of boycotts or anything like that.
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On August 02 2013 15:20 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm As if your posts in the balance thread weren't bad enough. RIDICULOUS, post. My god.
Didn't Kinsey kinda prove that almost no one is 100% heterosexual or homosexual, and many will have a homosexual experience in their lifetime? I'm bisexual, and my first experience was with a guy because it was much easier.
His post was worded quite poorly, but I think there may be a grain of truth/logic in it.
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On August 02 2013 15:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:41 Silvanel wrote:
Russia's population is deteriorating rapidly. Russias elites see homosexuality as a threat to natural growth (the question whether this view is valid is another thing). They need to boost their natural growth for several reasons, to compete with China, to sustain their meracantylic economic policies, to combat the growth of influnce of their non-white muslim caucas based part of popultion and so on. Theres also the isuue of growing influence of church in their internal policy (and Putin needs its suport). Also their general population is highly conservative and mostly support anti homosexual sentiment. On top of that its a nice issue to which they shift public focus in order to hide their icomptence and corrupotion.
So they have plenty of reasons for their policies, their governament actualy works in favor of what its percives as countrys best interest.
Edit:Homosexuality and natural growth: Governamnt as such (and Russia's especially) isnt concerned with Your happiness. As long as You are not rioting they dont care if You are happy or in pain. From their point of view, suffering homosexual who creates standard family and have children (as most of them did before the era of sexual emancypation) is more desirable citizen than happy homosexual with no children. As explained before they need to boost their natural growth, and this and similiar reasoning are partialy behind their actions. I had jokingly proposed this earlier, you seem a bit more knowledgeable on the issue mind! How are things such as drug and alcohol abuse tackled, is it something that is a big deal over there?
Well alcohol is a big problem, its greatly contributing to decrease in the productivity of their population (and shortening their life expectancy), there are some measeres enacted against it (price rises) but some poeple close to the governemnt have a lot of money invested in alcohol industry, so its kinda schizophrenic situation. There are no big anti-alcohol programs that i am aware of that might work.
In case of drugs i dont know really. I know they have problems with HIV in their heroin abusing part of population, and its hard to do anthing with it, as best means to comabat this actualy include helping those people, which is hard to do in such conservative country.
I am not some big expert in Russias internal policy. I guess we just have much more press coverage of their internal dealings because it influneces as in many ways. (We import oil and gas, and export alot to them).
PS. I dont know if people in the west are aware of it but Russia loves to punish their smaller neighbors whenever they defy their wishes. They especialy love to ban certain products (most often for "sanitary" reasons) cracking down on certain countries. Poland did something bad -lets ban their meat, (we export a looot of meat to Russia). In recent years they did similiar things to Estonia, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldavia (to name a few). Russia loves to strongarm everything. So i am kinda curious what would happen if some athlete would make pro-homosexual display during the Olympics.
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Northern Ireland25771 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:18 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:20 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm As if your posts in the balance thread weren't bad enough. RIDICULOUS, post. My god. Didn't Kinsey kinda prove that almost no one is 100% heterosexual or homosexual, and many will have a homosexual experience in their lifetime? I'm bisexual, and my first experience was with a guy because it was much easier. His post was worded quite poorly, but I think there may be a grain of truth/logic in it.
The kind of malleability of sexuality you are talking about does exist, especially in closed systems, be they prisons, or all-male schools or whatever.
I would contend that, just to be arbitrary if you're '95% gay', you're still gay for the most part.
It's not that I was necessarily disputing, what you raised it was the very idea that this law would prevent, or in its absence that kids would be being taught in classes about sexual mechanics in such a manner.
The spirit of this law, and the possibilities of it are directly harmful to gay people because it essentially criminalises the very support networks and acceptance that people who are homosexual rely upon, or at the very least are a source of support in a difficult stage of their lives.
Now, I'm going to annoy some people and say that, at least in terms of Belfast Pride, I went once and hated the experience, but I still would want to see it pass off every year. I don't particularly like many of the gay people I meet, but it's not because I give a shit about their sexuality. What harm can come from an annual parade and a celebration of the varied people that it constitutes?
Hell even if I hated every gay person I met, they should be allowed to live their lives in peace. It's not about me or my feelings, but a fundamental lack of any real logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed to have the fulfilling romantic relationships that the rest of us take for granted.
People seem to have a problem with homosexuality at a fundamental level that I just can't understand.
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On August 02 2013 15:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Some things never change. People are still too dumb to make use of their power in a democracy correctly. At least that's what I keep telling myself. Fuck me if this is actually a reflection of what the majority of Russians want.
A "democracy", ofc. We all know Russia isn't really one anymore.
Well the democracy in europe/US is also a farce.
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Northern Ireland25771 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:19 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:53 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 02 2013 15:41 Silvanel wrote:
Russia's population is deteriorating rapidly. Russias elites see homosexuality as a threat to natural growth (the question whether this view is valid is another thing). They need to boost their natural growth for several reasons, to compete with China, to sustain their meracantylic economic policies, to combat the growth of influnce of their non-white muslim caucas based part of popultion and so on. Theres also the isuue of growing influence of church in their internal policy (and Putin needs its suport). Also their general population is highly conservative and mostly support anti homosexual sentiment. On top of that its a nice issue to which they shift public focus in order to hide their icomptence and corrupotion.
So they have plenty of reasons for their policies, their governament actualy works in favor of what its percives as countrys best interest.
Edit:Homosexuality and natural growth: Governamnt as such (and Russia's especially) isnt concerned with Your happiness. As long as You are not rioting they dont care if You are happy or in pain. From their point of view, suffering homosexual who creates standard family and have children (as most of them did before the era of sexual emancypation) is more desirable citizen than happy homosexual with no children. As explained before they need to boost their natural growth, and this and similiar reasoning are partialy behind their actions. I had jokingly proposed this earlier, you seem a bit more knowledgeable on the issue mind! How are things such as drug and alcohol abuse tackled, is it something that is a big deal over there? Well alcohol is a big problem, its greatly contributing to decrease in the productivity of their population (and shortening their life expectancy), there are some measeres enacted against it (price rises) but some poeple close to the governemnt have a lot of money invested in alcohol industry, so its kinda schizophrenic situation. There are no big anti-alcohol programs that i am aware of that might work. In case of drugs i dont know really. I know they have problems with HIV in their heroin abusing part of population, and its hard to do anthing with it, as best means to comabat this actualy include helping those people, which is hard to do in such conservative country. I am not some big expert in Russias internal policy. I guess we just have much more press coverage of their internal dealings because it influneces as in many ways. (We import oil and gas, and export alot to them). PS. I dont know if people in the west are aware of it but Russia loves to punish their smaller neighbors whenever they defy their wishes. They especialy love to ban certain products (most often for "sanitary" reasons) cracking down on certain countries. Poland did something bad -lets ban their meat, (we export a looot of meat to Russia). In recent years they did similiar things to Estonia, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldavia (to name a few). Russia loves to strongarm everything. So i am kinda curious what would happen if some athlete would make pro-homosexual display during the Olympics.
We get very little press coverage of 'normal' Russia if that makes sense. Alexander Litvinenko dies, or Putin is pictured topless, but outside of the international relations disaster or 'Putin's an asshole' it's hard to get a picture as to what the actual country is like.
Speaking of drug problems, there's this one called Krokodil or something over there that's a big social blight. Genuinely makes heroin addiction seem a safe activity by comparison.
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On August 02 2013 12:33 GhostLink wrote:
Well, good. You don't seen straight people on the streets rallying because they're proud to be straight. I don't want gays doing that either, because frankly I couldn't care less about their sexual orientation. It's their business, why drag the rest of us into it.
Quote for life.
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Northern Ireland25771 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:46 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 12:33 GhostLink wrote:
Well, good. You don't seen straight people on the streets rallying because they're proud to be straight. I don't want gays doing that either, because frankly I couldn't care less about their sexual orientation. It's their business, why drag the rest of us into it. Quote for life.
It's a good quote if you don't use your brain to think on why that might be the case.
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On August 02 2013 15:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Some things never change. People are still too dumb to make use of their power in a democracy correctly. At least that's what I keep telling myself. Fuck me if this is actually a reflection of what the majority of Russians want.
A "democracy", ofc. We all know Russia isn't really one anymore.
This is almost certainly what the (vast) majority of Russians want. Sadly.
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On August 02 2013 15:45 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:22 rd wrote:On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm Is this really bad sarcasm? I'm confused. Who are you even arguing against, or do you always just throw up insanely ridiculous strawmen? No one. Merely pointing out the repercussions of sexual equality among the orientations. My /sarcasm was intended to address my disagreement that nothing wrong would happen. Being a victim of preteen male-on-male sexual molestation disqualifies me from any unbiased view I'm afraid.
You are definitely right! Having strict rules against it will definitely stop these things from happening. I mean, just look at the catholic church. It's not like catholic priests have sex with young boys or anything.
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Please don't force a boycott, I just want to watch Czechs beat Russia at Ice Hockey.
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Oh my god, the slippery slope and strawmen arguments in here, I feel pretty bad for some of you for expressing (and supposedly having) such opinions, and bad for the rest of us for having a sliver of hope that such naive and backwards attitudes and opinions can be changed.....
In any case, I'd be pro boycott, but I don't think it'll happen. There will be some pressure on Russia to change the law, there will be some lame amendment or reassurance by Russia that will incidentally also come across as a veiled threat, the Olympics will happen, Olympians will have security and not leave the village except for competition, one or two athletes will use a rainbow flag for their victory lap, lots of fans will be arrested and there will be some violence inc. police brutality, and then the Olympics will be over, and most people will breathe a massive sigh of relief.
Ergh.
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EPT
