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On August 02 2013 13:37 Jibba wrote:Just to make something clear, the current situation in Russia is not just of the government oppressing a group of people through laws. The police and state are also turning a blind eye to violent crimes committed against those groups of people, much the same way lynchings and other violent crimes were treated in the Jim Crow South. Russia's homophobia has turned extremely violent and the state is ignoring it, essentially sentencing them. http://blog.amnestyusa.org/europe/as-the-world-celebrates-idaho-homophobia-in-russia-is-on-the-rise/+ Show Spoiler [disturbing] +On the evening May 9, a 23-year-old man in the city of Volgograd was drinking with two “friends” when he revealed that he was gay. In response, the two men savagely beat the 23-year-old, crushing his ribs, sodomizing him with beer bottles and attempting to burn him alive. They abandoned his body, only to return and smash his head in repeatedly – just in case he might have survived the first attack.
What disturbs me about Russia as I've been learning over the past 5ish years is that this kind of state sanctioned violence has been going on for some time. Some years ago there was some noise over the rising xenophobic attitude of Russians against foreigners, particularly Asians. Ultranationalist groups have been growing in Russia with very little impediment from the Russian government, regardless of what level of social violence they perpetrate so brazenly and in public. This state-sanctioned homophobia is just another part of what's been growing in Russia for years.
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On August 02 2013 14:27 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 14:23 semantics wrote:On August 02 2013 14:22 Pr0wler wrote:On August 02 2013 14:19 Roe wrote:On August 02 2013 14:06 Pr0wler wrote:Tell me a single wrong thing with that law. Russia’s contentious law was signed by President Vladimir Putin in late June, imposing fines on individuals accused of spreading “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” to minors Russia is an orthodox country with very strong church. Homosexuality is not really accepted there and I don't think that this will change any time soon. But you are no one to interfere in their internal affairs. It's not like the government is forcing this on the people... Also exposing children to any kind of sexuality is wrong. ...That's exactly what they're doing. I don't think that the majority of russians disagree with that law. Now tell me if they don't disagree, how is this forcing ? So a majority always has the right to oppress a minority even when such oppression helps ignorance and hate against a minority group. Or you simply saying the minority doesn't exist well if they don't exist then why is this a law? It's a law about spreading propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors. You assert your right to do that and anything contrary to your position is oppression of a minority group, and thereby contributing to ignorance and hate ? Please.
What the fuck is gay propaganda? Is general awareness of the world around you propaganda? What exactly is the fear? Are children going to suddenly go gay if they find out homosexuality exists in this world? Can you connect the dots? Keep children ignorant and homophobic of homosexuals or else they'll magically invert sexually, literally implying that homosexuality is bad. It's extremely oppressive. Imagine a United States where it was against the law to mention communism (we'll conveniently call it communist propaganda!) to children.
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On August 02 2013 14:45 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 14:29 FallDownMarigold wrote:On August 02 2013 14:22 Pr0wler wrote:On August 02 2013 14:19 Roe wrote:On August 02 2013 14:06 Pr0wler wrote:Tell me a single wrong thing with that law. Russia’s contentious law was signed by President Vladimir Putin in late June, imposing fines on individuals accused of spreading “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” to minors Russia is an orthodox country with very strong church. Homosexuality is not really accepted there and I don't think that this will change any time soon. But you are no one to interfere in their internal affairs. It's not like the government is forcing this on the people... Also exposing children to any kind of sexuality is wrong. ...That's exactly what they're doing. I don't think that the majority of russians disagree with that law. Now tell me if they don't disagree, how is this forcing ? y'know at one point in time we in the US had laws that 'the majority' voted up into place that made it so blacks couldn't drink water at white-people-only water fountains. turns out the majority had it wrong, so maybe russia might consider that the direction it's going is wrong too for similar reasons You do realize that right and wrong are defined by the majority, and its only wrong because the majority deems it so now.
nah im pretty sure limiting the freedom of certain people relative to others based on race, gender, sexuality, etc., counts as wrong no matter what the majority of the day supports. why do people still believe in moral relativism
On August 02 2013 15:04 Shikyo wrote:
What a sensationalistic thread title. Change the thread title.
agreed, maybe change it to "Russian police allow anti-gay beatings in light of new anti-gay law and subsequent pro-gay rights demonstrations"
On August 02 2013 15:12 FarmI3oy wrote:
I don't care what anyone says, but since the laws starting getting passed in different states the number of bisexual men and women has increased. The whole thing has just become OK with everyone it seems. Russia hopes to thwart that.
BROSCIENCE!...
maybe it's just that with more open tolerance in the legislation concerning bisexual/gays these days, they are more ok with being more public about it. imagine you're bi/bgay and you're in a place where being gay means you're dead. you aren't as likely to let anyone know you're gay. how can you possibly conclude that reducing gay inequality *causes* people to become gay? bro science at its finest!
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What a sensationalistic thread title. It's not close to accurate. It's about propaganda to children(whatever propaganda is). Not like I approve of the law either way but this title is exaggerating it greatly. I don't exactly want to watch gay rights movements while watching the olympics either. And no I don't want to watch hetero rights movements either. They aren't even banning homosexual athletes. Change the thread title.
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On August 02 2013 15:04 Shikyo wrote:
What a sensationalistic thread title. It's not close to accurate. It's about propaganda to children(whatever propaganda is). Not like I approve of the law either way but this title is exaggerating it greatly. I don't exactly want to watch gay rights movements while watching the olympics either. And no I don't want to watch hetero rights movements either. They aren't even banning homosexual athletes. Change the thread title.
Thread title suits the content just fine. It's a law that discriminates against gays, and Russia plans to enforce said law at Olympics. Backseat moderating unneeded.
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I applaud Russia for standing up in what they believe in.
They aren't restricting gays from being in their country. Just restricting them from making publicly scenes of gayness.
I don't care what anyone says, but since the laws starting getting passed in different states the number of bisexual men and women has increased. The whole thing has just become OK with everyone it seems. Russia hopes to thwart that.
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On August 02 2013 15:04 Shikyo wrote:
What a sensationalistic thread title. It's not close to accurate. It's about propaganda to children(whatever propaganda is). Not like I approve of the law either way but this title is exaggerating it greatly. I don't exactly want to watch gay rights movements while watching the olympics either. And no I don't want to watch hetero rights movements either. They aren't even banning homosexual athletes. Change the thread title.
Did you even read what happened? Thread title is completely accurate. Russia is denying the LBGT Pride House from the olympics on the grounds of spreading "gay propaganda." The minor bill simply reinforces how they legally discriminate by giving them grounds to literally just call anything remotely pro-gay as propaganda compromising the security of Russia, and turning a blind eye to violence against protestors and possibly the LBGT athletes themselves.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:12 FarmI3oy wrote:
I applaud Russia for standing up in what they believe in.
They aren't restricting gays from being in their country. Just restricting them from making publicly scenes of gayness.
I don't care what anyone says, but since the laws starting getting passed in different states the number of bisexual men and women has increased. The whole thing has just become OK with everyone it seems. Russia hopes to thwart that.
What are they thwarting? What moral peril is being averted that necessitates preventing these people from expressing themselves?
As to your suggestion that, I don't know people are becoming bisexual because it's trendy or something?
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On August 02 2013 15:12 FarmI3oy wrote:
I applaud Russia for standing up in what they believe in.
They aren't restricting gays from being in their country. Just restricting them from making publicly scenes of gayness.
I don't care what anyone says, but since the laws starting getting passed in different states the number of bisexual men and women has increased. The whole thing has just become OK with everyone it seems. Russia hopes to thwart that.
What isn't okay about being bisexual -- and if it isn't okay, how in the world does it even affect you?
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On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual.
Yes, what could go wrong?
Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally.
Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation.
I completely agree.
/sarcasm
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm
As if your posts in the balance thread weren't bad enough.
RIDICULOUS, post. My god.
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On August 02 2013 15:19 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 13:53 arsonist wrote:
The idea that exposing children to homosexuality will make them homosexual is ridiculous, anyway. A vast majority of homosexual children are brought up by heterosexual parents, and yet, somehow, they aren't influenced to turn heterosexual. Yes, what could go wrong? Teach a chapter on gay sex to class full of horny pre-teen boys complete with play-by-play video about how sexual pleasure can be gained from massaging the prostate anally. Nothing would go wrong and the right thing to do. After all, scientists agree you can't choose your sexual orientation. I completely agree. /sarcasm
Is this really bad sarcasm? I'm confused. Who are you even arguing against, or do you always just throw up insanely ridiculous strawmen?
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On August 02 2013 15:15 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:04 Shikyo wrote:
What a sensationalistic thread title. It's not close to accurate. It's about propaganda to children(whatever propaganda is). Not like I approve of the law either way but this title is exaggerating it greatly. I don't exactly want to watch gay rights movements while watching the olympics either. And no I don't want to watch hetero rights movements either. They aren't even banning homosexual athletes. Change the thread title. Did you even read what happened? Thread title is completely accurate. Russia is denying the LBGT Pride House from the olympics on the grounds of spreading "gay propaganda." The minor bill simply reinforces how they legally discriminate by giving them grounds to literally just call anything remotely pro-gay as propaganda compromising the security of Russia, and turning a blind eye to violence against protestors and possibly the LBGT athletes themselves. And that's the crux it has nothing to do with minors the bill simply says minors to get the wording so vague enough to include everywhere not just like classrooms.What it blocks, protests anything in public this includes TV, radio print etc, being accepting of homosexuality is banned in Russia.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:23 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 15:15 rd wrote:On August 02 2013 15:04 Shikyo wrote:
What a sensationalistic thread title. It's not close to accurate. It's about propaganda to children(whatever propaganda is). Not like I approve of the law either way but this title is exaggerating it greatly. I don't exactly want to watch gay rights movements while watching the olympics either. And no I don't want to watch hetero rights movements either. They aren't even banning homosexual athletes. Change the thread title. Did you even read what happened? Thread title is completely accurate. Russia is denying the LBGT Pride House from the olympics on the grounds of spreading "gay propaganda." The minor bill simply reinforces how they legally discriminate by giving them grounds to literally just call anything remotely pro-gay as propaganda compromising the security of Russia, and turning a blind eye to violence against protestors and possibly the LBGT athletes themselves. And that's the crux it has nothing to do with minors the bill simply says minors to get the wording so vague enough to include everywhere not just like classrooms.What it blocks, protests anything in public this includes TV, radio print etc, being accepting of homosexuality is banned in Russia.
I mean we've been going with worse-case scenarios here, but there's not much else we can presuppose given that the law is supposedly incredibly open-ended and ill-defined.
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People talking about Boycott, Remember that not so long ago, The so called "world community" rejected a boycott proposal when Hitler organised his olympics.
Rest assured, in 77 years, our political class has not grown a pair of balls. Except if it has anything to do with natural ressources.
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+1 Russia. At least someone sticks up for the right thing.
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I think that either side of this issue is arguing about completely different things which just goes to show how vague this law is. Advocates envision toddlers crawling through semen soaked gay sex clubs as their mothers clutch their pearls helpless to stop this "education". Skeptics of the law envision gay Russian teenagers committing suicide left and right because of a government conspiracy to make them feel isolated and evil.
At the end of the day the only thing I think we can all agree on is that this is a bad way to run a country.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
I'm just surprised that somebody hasn't tried to use the slippery slope argument yet, because apparently acceptance for gays = paedophiles are next = people who like with giraffes will follow into accepted behaviour.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On August 02 2013 15:31 Douillos wrote:
People talking about Boycott, Remember that not so long ago, The so called "world community" rejected a boycott proposal when Hitler organised his olympics.
Rest assured, in 77 years, our political class has not grown a pair of balls. Except if it has anything to do with natural ressources.
Just out of interest, I haven't really got much knowledge, but why did the international community pressurise South Africa so hard to end apartheid. Hey, it's even noticeable in Hollywood, villains in action flicks weren't Russians anymore but Sef Efricans!
Not that the international community was wrong to do so, but it seems a curious case of relatively united, non-violent pressure to enact social change precisely because it's so atypical. Anyone got any extra info?
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On August 02 2013 15:37 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm just surprised that somebody hasn't tried to use the slippery slope argument yet, because apparently acceptance for gays = paedophiles are next = people who like with giraffes will follow into accepted behaviour.
It isn't used as in Soviet Russia, gays = pedophiles. Flawed thought process that apparently has spread all around ex-soviet countries.
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