EPTHopefully when the second referendum happens the No vote will remind people of what Britain has achieved and what we stand for, and not just talk about losing money. The UK has an important role to play in the world and Scottish independence should be about whether they want to be a part of that or not, not just whether they can profit off our backs.
UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 293
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
Hopefully when the second referendum happens the No vote will remind people of what Britain has achieved and what we stand for, and not just talk about losing money. The UK has an important role to play in the world and Scottish independence should be about whether they want to be a part of that or not, not just whether they can profit off our backs. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:19 bardtown wrote: Like I say, I'm not particularly invested in either direction. I'm just stating the reality that the economic case is weak. I like Scotland being in the UK, but the thing I found most unpleasant about the first referendum was that the only people arguing for the UK were arguing on economic grounds. If they have no ideological attachment to the union then they should go. Don't hang onto us for money while criticising every single policy we make that generates said money. Hopefully when the second referendum happens the No vote will remind people of what Britain has achieved and what we stand for, and not just talk about losing money. The UK has an important role to play in the world and Scottish independence should be about whether they want to be a part of that or not, not just whether they can profit off our backs. This is the kind of argument a lot of the urban dwelling left in the US make when talking about rural America. And let me tell you, it has not worked out in any way at all. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:27 bardtown wrote: You need to expand on that because it doesn't mean anything to me as it stands. Rural America(aka, the big square states in the US that are east the great lakes) is heavily dependent on the federal support provided by the more populated, richer states on the coast. Like most of them could not function as states without that support. The urban, high earning states, lean democrat(liberals) is almost every way. The rural states lean republican. The argument that "We are the future of the US economy, follow us or be left behind" has never really caught on. I was struck by how similar your argument was. The UK makes all the money, so be quite and follow us to the future. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2531 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:19 bardtown wrote: Like I say, I'm not particularly invested in either direction. I'm just stating the reality that the economic case is weak. I like Scotland being in the UK, but the thing I found most unpleasant about the first referendum was that the only people arguing for the UK were arguing on economic grounds. If they have no ideological attachment to the union then they should go. Don't hang onto us for money while criticising every single policy we make that generates said money. Hopefully when the second referendum happens the No vote will remind people of what Britain has achieved and what we stand for, and not just talk about losing money. The UK has an important role to play in the world and Scottish independence should be about whether they want to be a part of that or not, not just whether they can profit off our backs. By that logic, economic policy should only be decided by people that make a net contribution to the state via tax receipts, no? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:37 LightSpectra wrote: By that logic, economic policy should only be decided by people that make a net contribution to the state via tax receipts, no? Be right back, I need to copy-right the plot of my new dystopian YA trilogy. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2531 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:43 bardtown wrote: I don't understand these comparisons at all. I am not saying that Scotland should follow blindly. I am saying they should go their own way if they don't share our ambitions as a nation. It's a matter of principle. Don't marry someone you hate for their money. But it is follow or leave, correct? They should avoid voicing dissenting opinions, since they are not the bread winners? | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On March 17 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote: But it is follow or leave, correct? They should avoid voicing dissenting opinions, since they are not the bread winners? They can voice whatever opinions they like, and if they can persuade the majority of the UK population of the validity of their point of view then they can affect change. They have absolutely no interest in affecting positive change, though. They exist to make Scotland independent, so their only purpose is to criticise and demean the UK. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2531 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2531 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2531 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
This is an interesting stat, I think. England/Wales are still broadly in favour of the union but there has been a swing of 26% (in 2 1/2 years) in favour of Scotland leaving. The SNP are very effectively creating resentment in the UK as a whole by being invariably critical and unproductive, and implying that the English are racist, don't care about the poor, etc. If that trend continues over the next 2 1/2 years (although I'm sure it won't) then it might be the English voting for independence. It's really not a healthy situation as it stands. There's an off chance that Brexit results in a revitalisation of the British identity, and we can really make a show of pursuing positive domestic and international change that brings people back together a bit. But if that doesn't happen and Scotland remains dogmiatically critical of England, then I would prefer to see them leave than stay for the money. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
The SNP are currently the real opposition party, at least they make a fuss over any austerity measures. Torry government is the bane of the UK not the EU. I really wish the largely uneducated Brexit voters would've understood that. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 17 2017 05:00 MyTHicaL wrote: I just have to laugh at your hypocracy. You just can't understand the irony. The SNP are currently the real opposition party, at least they make a fuss over any austerity measures. Torry government is the bane of the UK not the EU. I really wish the largely uneducated Brexit voters would've understood that. As a foreigner in the UK, I don't agree that torries are bad. I kind of liked David Cameron as a PM. I'm not that keen on Theresa May as a PM so far, but she still makes more sense to me, economically at least, than Labour. Also, I like SNP when they oppose Brexit, but I feel their independence request is at the worst possible time. I agree with Theresa May that it should be considered after Brexit. Otherwise, the UK will look even weaker to the EU and I'm pro-EU. Edit: If anyone is to blame, I think I'd blame Labour for having no will to back Remain properly. Absolutely shocking that their campaign was so bad. Cameron was more pro-EU than Corbyn. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
I recommend watching the Brexit Select Committee to people who are interested in understanding the process in more detail. Benn and co. vs Davis is the kind of healthy opposition you don't get to see in PMQs. Starts at 9.30 btw. Might also give you an idea why I was so pleased with TM's decision to make DD the Brexit secretary. | ||
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