EPTScotland has the exact same current GDP% of the entire UK as its' population % of the UK hmmm.
UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 292
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
Scotland has the exact same current GDP% of the entire UK as its' population % of the UK hmmm. | ||
KwarK
United States43963 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9842 Posts
Obviously more funding would be better, but less bureaucracy has to be the top priority. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On March 16 2017 01:21 MyTHicaL wrote: If it isn't an emergency, you will be expected to wait. Sorry but that's how it is. The problem was the previous Labour government and their atrocious PFI schemes which paid a lot of money to private companies for almost no gain, saddling the NHS with massive debts. That the successive NHS governments cannot or will not increase funding excarbates the problem. Junior Doctors and Nurses seem to be badly treated so I can't see it getting any better unfortunately. Why was you admitted 3 times by the way? Just curious. In regards to the great NHS. I was admitted to Addenbrookes three times, every time over 4 hour waiting time, the machines and services are outdated. They are actually better equipped in my town (both in wait time, getting appointments, actual machinery, etc) in France of a whopping 20K inhabitants including the surrounding villages. And Addenbrookes was supposed to be the best public hospital of the UK rofl. The NHS of the UK is pathetic, but Scotland's is less pathetic than that of England. It is what happens when you apply austerity measures to a health system. You're forgetting to mention the whole "Independence support at its' highest levels ever" headline news of the BBC that you love to quote. I just wish they'd stop over 70s voting in referendums.. It doesn't make any sense. Anyhow, over 70s have the right to vote, and as stupid as that fact that the less likely they are to see the consequences of exiting the EU, yet the majority of the elderly voted for it, I wouldn't wish to see their rights taken away no matter the reason. I would rather the current conservative government respected democracy properly and stop trying to force through a hard brexit in which only the minority wants over a soft brexit, and trying to push through bills without proper democratic discussion. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
I seemingly do stupid things on occasion when I drink. I don't really care about my own personal wait times, some of the other people seemed to need more urgent care; some less, the hospital staff looked like they hadn't slept for days so can't really complain. As for my over 70 plight, yeah I know that; obviously. I just don't think a referendum should be treated as a by-election or GE. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
EDIT: all hospital staff is overworked. Even in a system as vastly different from EU system as the US healthcare system most physicians are overworked - it's part of the profession. There was an uproar in the US medical community when they capped the working hours of young physicians as the senior physicians believed that it would decrease the quality of the young doctors as they would take longer to gather experience (and medicine is still very much a practical field). | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On March 15 2017 10:46 bardtown wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/04/scottish-economy-grows-far-more-slowly-than-uk-as-a-whole Sorry but you don't just get to make things up and present them as reality. Trying to become an oil nation in 2017 is backwards. Many people travel in both directions for healthcare. Provisions are better for different treatments in different places. I personally receive medication on the English NHS that is not yet available in Scotland or Wales. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/scots-want-to-remain-in-uk-new-poll-reveals-57256ptzs http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/15/nicola-sturgeon-abandons-bid-remain-eu-poll-shows-record-level/ Leave voters going for the sensible option once again  Those 2 guardians articles, i thought they are well known and debunked, especially the first one (second one is just logical, you get hit by oil and gas, simple), and even the first one you get this: ''Scotland’s fiscal position relative to the UK can be forecast with greater certainty and is likely to remain at around the current level – about 5.5% of GDP worse off than the UK’s,” McLaren predicted.'' which is funny, because again, if you consider the population of whole scotland compared to England? near 8% of whole UK population, and how much money they have been sending over to england in the past decades. You truly don't need any maths skill to see the simple facts. Have a read here, educate yourself of what is actually happening in scotland, read all the linked articles in it, because people are tired to explain them again and again in the past decade, and i truly do not have time to make wall of text just to re-explain what people have been talking for so long (like, seriously, i would love to, but i just can't): http://wingsoverscotland.com/here-come-the-drums/ I literally mean it when i said Westminster has been sucking the blood of scotland for so long. At the very least, read this: http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-limitations-of-gers/ and that is not the only sources of the information i provided, they are plenty of them out there, I just cannot believe the fact commonly known to most people (at least i believe any moderately educated scottish people aka my friends) can become completely upside down. And also, i dont even know whats the poll trying to tell, for pro-independence, Aberdeen 50/50, edinburgh against it (pro-england, as historically), glasgow is all for it. There is nothing to discuss here, when the climate changes and edinburgh sees more senses in all the mess (they are just bloody bunch of snobs who pro-england for whatever reason), Scotland will go. I mean, i never understand why the bloody king just handed over scotland to the queen back then anyway (why you so strange edinburgh). | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2537 Posts
Now the question is "does Scotland do better in the EU without England, or out of the EU with England?" So most of the pro-independence stuff from 2014 is no longer relevant. I'd like to see an analysis about whether the EU or Westminster is more important to Scotland's economy. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2537 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2537 Posts
On March 16 2017 23:06 bardtown wrote: England and Wales import ~4x more from Scotland than the EU does, and UK spending is keeping Scotland afloat. It's not just the export/import rates, it's how much they will be disrupted by Scottish separation and Brexit respectively. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
On March 16 2017 23:17 bardtown wrote: It is settled that they would not be in the EU automatically, which makes it a pretty strange justification for leaving the UK. Sure you could leave the UK in order to rejoin the EU, but that requires signing up to the euro, etc, and even in Scotland the majority of Remain voters were reluctantly in favour of the EU as the lesser of two evils. They would be fully able to join the EEA, waiting for EU membership. The other countries of the EEA have already stated they wouldn't mind it. The UK, however, has a self-infalted opinion of itself and would look to be the #1 voice of the EEA, something the other countries have already stated they wouldn't want. Also those export/import rates are skewed to say the least. If whisky is shipped to the US or China via liverpool those statistics count the process as exporting to England. Which isn't true. They would need to alter the supply chain, maybe at a cost but lower the current 80% tax Westminster levies on Scottish whisky. It's not black and white, and of course London media is going to be spewing forth constant negativity regarding the entire subject. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
I don't think everyone is saying 'scotland is better off without UK and it will definitely do better', but some facts are facts like i said, and no one is prophet, nobody knows how exactly will scotland independence work out; saying that scotland needs england to survive is just factually incorrect. And honestly, both brexit and scot independence are very much emotional driven, but for very different reasons. Scottish are just sick of saying no say in everything lol. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
https://www.ft.com/content/022aeeb2-dd85-11e6-9d7c-be108f1c1dce Of course if I was as educated as you and your friends I would know that this is because England is fudging the numbers so they can claim the Scottish whisky industry as their own. Edit for paywall (FT is most reputable source for this): Scotland’s economic growth a third of UK level Disappointing figures come as SNP struggles on whether to seek new independence poll Scotland’s economic growth was a third of the overall UK figure and unemployment is rising, according to figures published as the governing Scottish National party struggles to decide whether to demand another independence referendum. The SNP made Scotland’s relative economic strength a central part of its case for independence ahead of the 2014 referendum, but growth has fallen behind, partly because of sharp falls in the oil price. New figures show Scottish onshore GDP in the third quarter of last year grew 0.2 per cent while equivalent UK growth was 0.6 per cent. Compared with the same period of 2015, Scottish GDP was up only 0.7 per cent, against the UK-wide figure of 2.2 per cent. Mark Diffley, of polling company Ipsos Mori Scotland, said that while voters often struggled to assign blame for economic problems between the governments in Edinburgh and London, the poor performance made leaving the UK a tougher sell. “It’s probably more difficult to make an economic case for independence when things are looking so gloomy.” Supporters of continued union with England could use the data to argue that the UK government was doing better in devolved policy areas and that Scotland still required UK support, Mr Diffley said. “That’s not a good starting point,” he said. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister and SNP leader, has said a second independence referendum is increasingly likely following the UK government’s decision to seek a “hard Brexit” outside the EU’s single market. “The latest Scottish GDP figures are grim,” said economist John McLaren. “This continues the longer term sluggish performance of the Scottish economy over the last three years relative to the UK.” Mr McLaren said that growth appeared “even worse” measured on an “active economy” index of GDP that strips out hard-to-measure or erratic sectors. The latest labour market statistics for September to November, also published on Wednesday, showed that Scotland had the biggest fall in employment rate of any UK region or nation over the past year, as well as the largest decrease in workforce jobs and the lowest hours worked in full-time jobs. Scotland’s unemployment rate grew by 0.4 percentage points to 5.1 per cent, the second largest increase and worse than the UK average of 4.8 per cent. Jamie Hepburn, Scotland’s minister for employability and training, blamed the UK’s vote to leave the EU for causing economic uncertainty that threatened growth and jobs market. But the Scottish Conservatives said the effect of the Brexit vote applied to the whole of the UK and did not explain Scotland’s relative employment weakness. The Fraser of Allander Institute economic think-tank warned against linking the GDP data to Brexit. “Scotland’s economic challenges and underperformance predate that vote,” said Professor Graeme Roy, institute director. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On March 16 2017 20:12 farvacola wrote: They reverted and got rid of that cap a week ago or so anyhow Uh no. They got rid of one of the caps, but the 80 hour week cap for residents is still very much in place: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/10/first-year-doctors-will-be-allowed-to-work-24-hour-shifts-starting-in-july/?utm_term=.6978b285f7f1 EDIT: FT is behind a paywall, please find another source. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
How do you not see the irony of making arguments for a union when it concerns the UK but discarding any argument as to why the UK is better of in the EU? LL; go back to trolling the US/Europe threads please. All EU countries have veto power, obviously Ger/France have a bigger say but no country's voice is ignored. | ||
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