EPTRazer (is not really) spying on customers - Page 8
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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler + “personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified. By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below. Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance. While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information. In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information. Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy. Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
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MHT
Sweden1026 Posts
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:12 caradoc wrote: The paranoia really is absurd. I can't fathom how people are worried about this. This is a weird weird thread. I think the main issue should be that you are required to connect to the internet, rather than the information thing, since the information thing is pretty much standard across everyone who makes you install software. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:21 Lonyo wrote: I think the main issue should be that you are required to connect to the internet, rather than the information thing, since the information thing is pretty much standard across everyone who makes you install software. Even the internet connection thing is basically standard if you want up to date drivers for anything. We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online. | ||
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hinnolinn
212 Posts
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iLikeRain
Denmark504 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:09 HawaiianPig wrote: You can put whatever spin on it you like, matter of fact is still that Razer (along with many many other companies) uses the least informative way to gain consent to collect information. They're within the law, no question about it, but that does not change the fact that companys use EULAs (which nobody except people with paranoia or law-interested people read) to gain legal grounds to collect many forms of data.You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works. Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties: If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is: (i) Provided voluntarily, and (ii) Used for public functions This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it. This one is even more reasonable. Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS. Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so. Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies. The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard. DIRECTIVE 2009/136/EC put restrictions on cookies because they were essentially doing the same; gathering information about the data subject without knowing it, or not explaining CLEAR enough what the information is used for. I would not be surprised to see such a change forced on EULAs in the future. I'm not in the slighest way paranoid, honestly I don't care what my informations are used for. What I don't like is the collection of data done by so many companys without specifically and very clearly notifying consumers of such an action. And I'm certain that a lot of people out there feel the same way. If companys like Razer want to collect ANY kind of data from our computer, they need to tell us directly without any chance of overlooking it, not hiding it among everything else the contract involves. | ||
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Wikt
Poland226 Posts
The levels of paranoia and indignant rage over nothing are ridiculous. I'm still getting a Razer BlackWidow - ordered it yesterday, haven't changed my mind after seeing this thread. | ||
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julianto
2292 Posts
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Mittens
Australia102 Posts
Show's over folks, Razer just killed ESPORTS  . | ||
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openbox1
1393 Posts
On November 04 2012 07:39 Mittens wrote: Judging by the amount of damage control coming from HawaiianPig, the only logical conclussion is that Razer already controls TL after stealing all the admin login dets when they installed SPYnapse. Show's over folks, Razer just killed ESPORTS .heheh, you don't screw with a major sponsor  Look at the first post. Rarely see this level of mod edit. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Grollicus
Germany287 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:24 caradoc wrote: Even the internet connection thing is basically standard if you want up to date drivers for anything. I can get drivers from other computers. I can download drivers once, throw them into my personal storage. [Usually there is even a driver CD bundled with the hardware.] This online mode creates a totally unneccessary dependency on Razer. What happens if Razer suddenly goes bancrupt? (Hopefully this doesnt happen, ofc, but you never know) Then you cannot re-activate that Synapse stuff for example on a new pc? No settings changes? What happens if in some years the revenue the Synapsis-Mice turn over goes down and cloud hosting is no longer profitable? Maybe they turn it off? Maybe they want to sell some new mice? Oh, the temptation... On the other hand, whats the benefit for the customer that requires forcing cloud synchronization? Why not make clound synchronization optional? I don't see any reason for that whatsoever. Knowing that they are not after personal information, what other reasons are there to patronize their customers? Do they have problems with counterfeit goods? This decision doesn't really make sense to me. | ||
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Vain
Netherlands1115 Posts
This is unacceptable behaviour for a company that is selling 'premium' mice. We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers. We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory. We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users. Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is). We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online. I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out. What i still don't get is why you need to register to fully unlock the extra functionality of the mice although you already paid more for that functionality. It's like you need to give your name and adress to adjust the brightness on your monitor | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
This is why I love the Logitech G1. I plug it in, and I use it. No settings, no setup, no login, no drivers needed really (though I do have them on my Desktop. When I use my G1 with my Mac lappy I don't have to do anything. It just works). I wish companies would realize there is a space in the market for a super simple gaming mouse instead of just creating more and more complex mice with lights, a ton of settings, and a bunch of pointless features. Logitech needs to sell the G100 in North America. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
. Their piece of shit mouse squeaking and then breaking down after only 2 months of use did that. | ||
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simmeh
Canada2511 Posts
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TJ31
630 Posts
Although I agree, that's a terrible piece of software and terrible system overall, onboard memory is much better. In fact, if believe to wikipedia, every new razer mouse have onboard memory, but apparently it's not usable to store settings/profiles, which makes no sense at all. More than that, razer's software always was terrible. I couldn't use my Mamba and friend could't use his BW, before we delete razer drivers ( same problem on both - lights on, but it doesn't work untill you replug the usb). So when it will be the time to buy a next mouse, I'll be sure to buy one, that allows me to store profiles/settings in the mouse itself, so I will be able to delete all those crappy drivers. And big news, Razer's competitor, a.k.a. SteelSeries allows that, I already have Sensei and it has that option. I had to install their software too ofc, but I uninstalled it after 30 mins after I created all profiles I may ever need ( doubt I'll need even half of those ), plus I can change some settings using small lcd screen on mouse itself. Edit: Also this We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users. is such a bs. They could've at least kept 60kb that even Lachesis had, plus with current tech, prices for such a small ammount of flash memory is laughable. And since when Razer cares about prices too lol, can't their mices cheap in any way. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On November 04 2012 07:15 Wikt wrote: Thank you so much HawaiianPig for bringing some sense to this thread. The levels of paranoia and indignant rage over nothing are ridiculous. I'm still getting a Razer BlackWidow - ordered it yesterday, haven't changed my mind after seeing this thread. Synapse software is only used for the Macros on the Blackwidow, and firmware updating. Not installing, or not being able to access the cloud will not affect the main functionality of the keyboard - and for an SC2 player, macros not only are kinda useless, but in tournament play are illigal. For someone who buys the Naga for its mouse macros, like a WoW, LoL, or Dota2 player, the sole reason for buying the mouse is for its higher function. that function is limited if synapse is not available or used. The fact that Razer can force consumers to use their software, and in turn collect information is one part of the problem. Limiting and restricting functionality is a horrible way to strong arm this tactic. Now, you might not care, but imagine if your space bar didnt work on your nice new Blackwidow, unless you register for and run their software, and it must have connectivity. | ||
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The Devastator
34 Posts
Hell, you could but a large amount of storage in a mouse for close to nothing. | ||
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