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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler +“personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified.
By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance.
While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information.
In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers.
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information.
Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy.
Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. |
Taken from overclock.net
This really took me by surprise. Just bought a new Naga 2012 mouse, installed the software and get greeted by a login screen right after. No option to bypass it to use the software to configure the mouse, set the options, sensitivity, shortcuts, macros etc. So I go ahead and create an account and try to log in. Nothing. Try several more times, and still nothing. Try to make new accounts with different email addresses and it still wont work. Finally call Razer who tells me the activation server is down, and I wont be able to use the mouse until it goes back up and will only be able to use it as a standard plug and play mouse til then. I ask about a workaround to use the mouse offline and they say there is none. Supposedly once the mouse is activated on the computer offline mode will work, but it needs to upload my profile and activate my account first and since their server is down its not going to happen. I ask for a supervisor to confirm this is the case and ask again for a workaround to use it offline. He said sorry theres nothing they can do, tells me the call center is closing and hangs up on me. Im pretty shocked Razer thought it was a good idea to do this to customers. Nowhere on the box does it say anything about needing an internet connection to "activate" a mouse. If the servers go down in the future, anyone who buys this mouse is out of luck. Honestly the last time I buy a Razer product. Absolutely ridiculous. **Update** Thought I would clarify a few things since Ive been asked about this a lot. Razer forces you to create an account with them before you can use the software with the mouse. You cant configure the mouse in any way until you make an account with them and activate your computer and account through their server. If they decide to take down their activation server for any reason, you will never be able to use the software. If you live somewhere without access to internet, you will not be able to activate and use the software. If you work somewhere that has a network behind firewalls, chances are even though you can download the Synapse software, the firewall may also block you from activating and using the software as well. If your connection drops out for any reason, the Synapse software will make a habbit of locking up on you while it transitions to offline mode. During that time your settings may revert or possibly not be saved. Yes, you can use the mouse as plug and play with basic functionality if you choose not to make an account and activate your computer, but who pays $80 for a basic plug and play mouse? The reason people buy the Naga 2012 is the configurable buttons and to change the DPI, polling rate, set up macros and profiles along with everything else. Razer has no right to lock this away from customers who paid for these features. For the Naga 2012 mouse, there is no other offline drivers to revert to. Synapse 2.0 is your only option. Razers Synapse 2.0 software is always online. If you have an internet connection active, Razer will be constantly using it constantly downloading updates and interrupting your full screen applications. Not only that, as I suspected, the Synapse 2.0 software is spying on you From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement: “User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below. http://www.razerzone.com/synapse2/subscriber-agreementhttp://www.razerzone.com/synapse2/privacy-policyThe Synapse 2.0 software was not created to benefit customers in any way. It was a ploy to get into your computer and watch what you do and profit off this info.
source http://www.overclock.net/t/1319323/razer-synapse-2-0-software-mouse-unusable-if-you-dont-have-an-internet-connection-or-their-servers-are-down
This is a pretty huge deal. I use mostly Razer products myself but will not buy any new product off them since these methods of customer spying are completely ridiculous in my eyes. Also forcing customers to create an account and log in to their server over internet to be able to configure your devices is completely retarded. I wonder what TL says about this new policy as Razer is one of their major sponsors.
Mod Edit: This is relevant information from the Razer CEO which should be considered before commenting:
We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers.
We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory.
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out.
Mod Edit: The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymouns aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information.
The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows:
“personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified.
By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance.
While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information.
In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers.
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information.
Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy.
Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber.
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I came expecting some huge drama. This isn't a big deal. People made less of a stink over DIablo 3 being online only even for single player. I've never met anyone who uses the Razer software anyway O.o
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I think this post is a little bit cynical, the whole "The Synapse 2.0 software was not created to benefit customers in any way. It was a ploy to get into your computer and watch what you do and profit off this info." might be going a bit too far, but this is still kinda BS. I use a deathadder and I have been noticing that it locks up my mouse from time to time, doesnt apply mouse sensitivity/settings if I dont click through their update dialogs etc.
Its too bad, Razer is a company I have come to depend on for good mice, this might be a dealbreaker if it continues 
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Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that?
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On November 03 2012 21:37 ayaz2810 wrote:
I came expecting some huge drama. This isn't a big deal. People made less of a stink over DIablo 3 being online only even for single player. I've never met anyone who uses the Razer software anyway O.o
there is no other way to configure a razer product but through their drivers. (DPI, macros, buttons)
New procuts by razer will only work using that said new software.
in they Terms of Usage they say that they are allowed to grab pretty much any information system AND PERSONAL related and use it to their own needs.
this is on no way compareable to diablo3 which just needs u to be online while playing.
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On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that?
New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered.
and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on
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or you can just use very old version of their drivers and never be bothered by synapse ever again.
in a general rule, a good software will often go crap via update (it often come with a huge new interface that make you loose all you're options), so be careful updating.
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On November 03 2012 21:44 zeross wrote:
or you can just use very old version of their drivers and never be bothered by synapse ever again.
in a general rule, a good software will often go crap via update (it often come with a huge new interface that make you loose all you're options), so be careful updating.
again, this will not work for any new razer product that is released
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On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on
Well, so thats not razers fault then?
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On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on
Razer can not be faulted for 99% of people being stupid/lazy.
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welcome to the internet, bro.
but of course you are right, its fucked up when you have to register hardware before you can use all its features.
will people revolt like they did with bf3/orign? probably not.
not enough people to create a turmoil, this needs a critical mass.
but in the long run i guess most people who had problems with this wont buy another razer product.
the real problem is: why does razer do this?
is this perhaps a really stupid attempt to create customer ties?
i guess so, but the ties they are create are distrust and suspiciousness.
btw: they could release adriver/software in the furtue that doesnt need an internet activation when they shut down the activation for this particulary product. but that of course does not change the fact that its problematic to force people to activate a mouse over the internet for no obvious reason.
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On November 03 2012 21:45 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on Razer can not be faulted for 99% of people being stupid/lazy.
It's ok if people like you couldnt care less what a random company does with his/her own personal information.
I think that everyone should be informed that razer is quitely updating their TOS and everyone who doesn't like to be spyed should beware of buying any new products off them. For you this might be irrlevant, for others it surely isnt.
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On November 03 2012 21:49 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:45 Hypemeup wrote:On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on Razer can not be faulted for 99% of people being stupid/lazy. It's ok if people like you couldnt care less what a random company does with his/her own personal information. I think that everyone should be informed that razer is quitely updating their TOS and everyone who doesn't like to be spyed should beware of buying any new products off them. For you this might be irrlevant, for others it surely isnt.
If it is important to them, they should take the time and read the TOS and its updates.
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I hope logitech don't follow suit, I've liked their mice.
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On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on
How is this spying?
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Go with a Steelseries mouse then, you can just plug and play those with full functionality. :p
In seriousness, I don't think you should choose a mouse based on such a thing. But it's a little con for Razer.
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Steelseries <3
To my knowledge they don't spy on you. Or ask you to be online to use their stuff.
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On November 03 2012 21:56 schimmetje wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on How is this spying?
Company 1: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys.
Company 2: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys, but telling you they do.
Where's the difference between spying, and spying but telling you?
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Blizzard does this too, don't be so surprised. You could even have some fun with it  .
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I guess every company wants to get into the PII business...
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On November 03 2012 22:00 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:56 schimmetje wrote:On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on How is this spying? Company 1: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys. Company 2: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys, but telling you they do. Where's the difference between spying, and spying but telling you?
Because you have to consent to it or they wont.
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On November 03 2012 22:00 AnomalySC2 wrote:Blizzard does this too, don't be so surprised. You could even have some fun with it .
Blizzard is not collection personal information or telling you they may use the gathered information in any way.
Collection personal information could pretty much be anything you do on your computer. The websites you browse to, Messages you write on Skype, Facebook. Letters you write in Word.
Razer doesn't implicitly say what personal information in detail they gaher but it COULD be anything of the above.
Anyone who knowingly accepts these TOS is a complete moron.
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On November 03 2012 22:00 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:56 schimmetje wrote:On November 03 2012 21:42 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 21:38 MasterReY wrote:
Why do you call it "spying" if its clearly stated in the TOS?
Its an agreement, that the customer makes with razer. Not "spying".
Also my razer mouses are all configurable without an account anywhere.
I didnt have a Naga, but i have to say it sounds weird that you dont have any options without an account.
Can someone with a Naga comment on that? New pruducts by razer require the new software and require you to have an account registered. and let's be honest, 99% dont read the TOS, which razer is counting on How is this spying? Company 1: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys. Company 2: Collecting all your data, properly selling it to other companys, but telling you they do. Where's the difference between spying, and spying but telling you?
Have you ever read a TOS of an online service anywhere?
With respect to any content you elect to post on any area of the site, including blogs, forum comments and any and all other posts, you grant TeamLiquid a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use and display such content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology, without compensation or attribution to you.
We use non-identifying and aggregate information to better design our website and to share with advertisers. For example, we may tell an advertiser that X number of individuals visited a certain area on our website, or that Y number of 18 year olds play Protoss and Z number of SK Telecom Fans filled out our registration form, but we would not disclose anything that could be used to identify those individuals.
Oh noes
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It is my understanding that every software company makes you their slave and traps your soul with their TOS. It is the ultimate get out of jail free card until we legislate some sort of accountability similar to what ACA does to insurance companies. Getting bogged down in the specifics of this case is short sighted imo.
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I will just leave this thread alone, leaving me speechless. I hope a few ppl who care have been warned. I wouldn't have thought so many ppl just couln't care less about this.
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I'm not spending any money on anything with this kind of TOS. Never again.
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I suspect the guy that wrote the quoted post in the OP is doing something wrong. I'm using the same software that he's using and I'm not experiencing ANY performance issues when my mouse software switches to "Offline Mode" - It's not "constantly" downloading anything, nor is it minimizing anything when it finds an update. In the time I've had the mouse it's informed me of updates twice, the download took less than 10 seconds, the install took another 10 seconds, nothing was minimized or broken. When the update was applying the mouse turned off and back on which took approximately 5 seconds.
The snippet from the Razer user agreement is pretty standard legalese, Steam has it, Origin has it, PSN/XBL have it, most services that we as a community depend on have it.
That said, I'm also not planning on buying any more Razer products. I like their mice, but everything else has been really low quality.
On November 03 2012 22:13 ZwuckeL wrote:
I will just leave this thread alone, leaving me speechless. I hope a few ppl who care have been warned. I wouldn't have thought so many ppl just couln't care less about this.
There isn't anything to care about. It's a guy having performance issues that may be on his end, a down authentication server, and some standard legalese.
On November 03 2012 22:14 Reborn8u wrote:
I'm not spending any money on anything with this kind of TOS. Never again.
If you stick to that you won't be spending any money on anything on the internet ever again. 
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On November 03 2012 22:09 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 22:06 ZwuckeL wrote:On November 03 2012 22:00 AnomalySC2 wrote:Blizzard does this too, don't be so surprised. You could even have some fun with it . Blizzard is not collection personal information or telling you they may use the gathered information in any way.Collection personal information could pretty much be anything you do on your computer. The websites you browse to, Messages you write on Skype, Facebook. Letters you write in Word. Razer doesn't implicitly say what personal information in detail they gaher but it COULD be anything of the above. Anyone who knowingly accepts these TOS is a complete moron. Yes, they do. and you have accepted many TOS's exactly like that one. how do you feel about that?
Exactly. They most certainly can and absolutely do.
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Its good to know I should never install a mouse with razer software and instead get plug and play mouses. That said, I'm suddenly a lot happier with my 5euro mouse from Trust haha. A mouse just isn't important enough for me to sign such a rediculous agreement.
Thanks OP 5/5.
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That learns you/him to use a proper company like logitech instead.
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Collecting any kind of customer data for your own or another company is heavy business nowadays... People just are too careless with their personal data and often toss it around like it's nothing! If most people would be more sensitive to privacy and stuff companies would get their asses whipped for making so much profit from just "data", which is comparable with selling out your customers.
I'm pretty dissappointed in Razer for doing this, especially when those methods are primarily used with software for security reasons/protection against piracy, but I really don't see the urgency with hardware.
Internet gets more and more fucked, sadly... Hopefully this ain't gonna be like TV
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Honestly, some of you guys are pathetic. "Lots of companies do something similar, so I don't mind". When Microsoft first programmed Windows to "phone home" there was outrage. A lot of people were very upset by that news. A little over ten years later (though to be fair I'm sure most of you were well under ten years old when that happened) none of you seem bothered that a physical piece of machinery that you bought simply won't function as advertised unless you consent to constantly upload your personal information to a remote host.
First of all, that's basically extortion. They already have your money and you're presented with that screen, asking you if you really care so much that you'll forsake the product you wanted and go all the way back to the store to get your money back (if that's even possible).
Second of all, it's completely unnecessary and purely a business tactic used by a company that wants you to roll over and say "well everyone else does it". The more you allow companies to get away with pushing boundaries like this, the more companies will do it, and the farther the boundary will get pushed.
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I'm pretty sure this is just a keylogger, if so just don't type your magnum opus on a razer keyboard and you should be good.
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I'm honestly shocked you people are arguing about something that is in even Steam's ToS and not the fact that we have reached the point where there is always online internet hardware.
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On November 03 2012 22:41 lolmlg wrote:
Honestly, some of you guys are pathetic. "Lots of companies do something similar, so I don't mind". When Microsoft first programmed Windows to "phone home" there was outrage. A lot of people were very upset by that news. A little over ten years later (though to be fair I'm sure most of you were well under ten years old when that happened) none of you seem bothered that a physical piece of machinery that you bought simply won't function as advertised unless you consent to constantly upload your personal information to a remote host.
First of all, that's basically extortion. They already have your money and you're presented with that screen, asking you if you really care so much that you'll forsake the product you wanted and go all the way back to the store to get your money back (if that's even possible).
Second of all, it's completely unnecessary and purely a business tactic used by a company that wants you to roll over and say "well everyone else does it". The more you allow companies to get away with pushing boundaries like this, the more companies will do it, and the farther the boundary will get pushed.
Pretty much this. It's an unnecessary transfer of data that has a potential (however miniscule) of falling into the wrong hands. There's no benefit to be derived by the consumers from hardware companies harvesting this type of data.
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I don't get the "Everybody steals from me. Well I guess I'll just let them" mentality of some people.
Let's be honest. Putting weird shit in the ToS is a sneaky move since it's bloody long and unintelligiblly technical even if I tried to read it. Site like Bandcamp which are trying to promote a "transparent image" will explicitly make you aware of their ToS because they don't want to hide it (the said parts of their ToS).
Companies should have to highlight these things, like how Google Play does.
Of course I know it's not that great either.
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Posted by Min Liang Tan (CEO) facebook:
We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers.
We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory.
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out.
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Thanks. I was going to buy a Razer mouse, but now i know better. I'll just buy logitech I do like Razer products, but this...
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People are so fucking paranoid these days. Reddit, facebook, and google all farm your personal info and your going to make a stink of razer doing it? lol jesus
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I will consider this when I buy new mouse and keyboard. Good to know.
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On November 03 2012 23:05 nGBeast wrote:
People are so fucking paranoid these days. Reddit, facebook, and google all farm your personal info and your going to make a stink of razer doing it? lol jesus
Well, im not on reddit, facebook and google and still like my razer mouse..
Still, its a piece of HARDWARE wtf why does it need internetz?
Thats just plain stupid.
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On November 03 2012 22:54 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 22:41 lolmlg wrote:
Honestly, some of you guys are pathetic. "Lots of companies do something similar, so I don't mind". When Microsoft first programmed Windows to "phone home" there was outrage. A lot of people were very upset by that news. A little over ten years later (though to be fair I'm sure most of you were well under ten years old when that happened) none of you seem bothered that a physical piece of machinery that you bought simply won't function as advertised unless you consent to constantly upload your personal information to a remote host.
First of all, that's basically extortion. They already have your money and you're presented with that screen, asking you if you really care so much that you'll forsake the product you wanted and go all the way back to the store to get your money back (if that's even possible).
Second of all, it's completely unnecessary and purely a business tactic used by a company that wants you to roll over and say "well everyone else does it". The more you allow companies to get away with pushing boundaries like this, the more companies will do it, and the farther the boundary will get pushed. Pretty much this. It's an unnecessary transfer of data that has a potential (however miniscule) of falling into the wrong hands. There's no benefit to be derived by the consumers from hardware companies harvesting this type of data.
There is no "this type of data" specified, so you can't make a value judgement (feel free to go do actual research, but there is none right now). In the meantime, the terms are there because it's required these days for companies to cover their ass, for any type of transmission. This also does not give us any information about what's actually happening.
Now I'm not saying there is no inappropriate data transmitted, companies are pretty incompetent in this regard. At the same time, it could only be update information or some such (edit: oh it's memory actually, makes sense). The only verified issue here is that they ask you to create an account which comes with broad terms you may not like. Making a big stink about it and bashing others for pointing out you've agreed to tons of terms like these (because, again, they're more or less required these days) is the real pathetic thing. But then, we have gone like 2 days without something like this I guess so it's about time.
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Suprised by all the sheeps here who don't agree with the OP. D3 beeing online only even for single player makes sense since its a way to stop piracy of software. A mouse beeing configurable online only makes no sense.
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On November 03 2012 23:15 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:13 Grollicus wrote:On November 03 2012 23:05 nGBeast wrote:
People are so fucking paranoid these days. Reddit, facebook, and google all farm your personal info and your going to make a stink of razer doing it? lol jesus Well, im not on reddit, facebook and google and still like my razer mouse.. Still, its a piece of HARDWARE wtf why does it need internetz? Thats just plain stupid. If you actually have read the thread you would know that it doesnt need internets. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 22:58 S_SienZ wrote:Posted by Min Liang Tan (CEO) facebook: We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers.
We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory.
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out.
Except you need internet to initialize the software that lets you set up the features that make up the price you paid for the mouse.
And because you read the first post of this thread you know that someone who bought the mouse for $80 was not able to do so because activation servers were not working.
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Best part is it's even on the description of the product. So you *know* this if you read what you buy:
Razer Synapse 2.0 is cutting-edge intuitive proprietary software that functions as the Razer Naga’s brain automatically syncing the gaming mouse to a cloud server to download driver and firmware updates, as well as save individual gamer settings without you needing to lift a finger.
It's right there. Learn to read.
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On November 03 2012 23:32 gawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:15 zeru wrote:On November 03 2012 23:13 Grollicus wrote:On November 03 2012 23:05 nGBeast wrote:
People are so fucking paranoid these days. Reddit, facebook, and google all farm your personal info and your going to make a stink of razer doing it? lol jesus Well, im not on reddit, facebook and google and still like my razer mouse.. Still, its a piece of HARDWARE wtf why does it need internetz? Thats just plain stupid. If you actually have read the thread you would know that it doesnt need internets. On November 03 2012 22:58 S_SienZ wrote:Posted by Min Liang Tan (CEO) facebook: We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers.
We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory.
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out. Except you need internet to initialize the software that lets you set up the features that make up the price you paid for the mouse. And because you read the first post of this thread you know that someone who bought the mouse for $80 was not able to do so because activation servers were not working.
Requiring "authentication" for hardware like mouse/keyboard/printer is and will be forever silly
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This is a pretty huge deal. I use mostly Razer products myself but will not buy any new product off them since these methods of customer spying are completely ridiculous in my eyes. Also forcing customers to create an account and log in to their server over internet to be able to configure your devices is completely retarded.
Exactly. I don't know why companies do this backdoor shit. They might claim that everybody knew about this who read their new customer blablabla but if they were honest, they'd admit that they know that nobody reads that shit xD
Back when my Steelseries headset bite the dust I decided to buy only razer stuff from now on which resulted in a new razer mouse and the blackwidow keyboard. Now I'll swing back to steelseries or Roccat or whatever else is out there =)
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Thank you for sharing. Not gonna buy any razor items. It's just plain stupid, why would I need to auth my mouse?
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On November 03 2012 23:35 schimmetje wrote:
Best part is it's even on the description of the product. So you *know* this if you read what you buy:
Razer Synapse 2.0 is cutting-edge intuitive proprietary software that functions as the Razer Naga’s brain automatically syncing the gaming mouse to a cloud server to download driver and firmware updates, as well as save individual gamer settings without you needing to lift a finger.
It's right there. Learn to read.
That does not say you need internet to use the mouse properly.
As in the op:
Nowhere on the box does it say anything about needing an internet connection to "activate" a mouse. If the servers go down in the future, anyone who buys this mouse is out of luck.
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Lol so much paranoia in this thread. Every company steals your personal information, and most of them sell it for marketing purposes. Big fucking deal. It's been this way for a long time. At least Razer has a legitimate reason to do so.
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I was surprised as well that the software for Razer peripherals was so overreaching.
First, Synapses 2.0 runs the program upon boot and I have one more window to close at start-up.
2nd, contrary to what some people are confused about, you can't program the additional buttons without the Synapses 2.0 software. So unless you're happy to just get functionality with 2 buttons on a 15+ button mouse, and lose all led lightning, you're really crippling the product without registration.
I have occasionally had screen popups about new updates to Synapses pop up. What's irritating is that the software requires a full reboot upon update. Also, everytime they configure a new default macro setting for individual games BF3, Diablo 3 etc... Synapses 2.0 tells me to update and reboot. That's alot of reboots for someone who leaves his computer on 24/7. I'm sure there are options to remove alerts/updates but for the vast majority of users, I doubt they'll delve deeply into the software to unmark those checkboxes.
Really Razer should make their software less intrusive. I think having an online profile might be useful so you can share the settings across computers, but make it optional not compulsory. People have never liked being forced to do something and given Razer makes very replaceable commodity products, I would think they'd like to stop pissing off their fan base.
The Naga molten will be my last razer product as a result of this lousy experience. Will be trying out Steelseries or Logitech given everyone raves about their products.
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On November 03 2012 21:39 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:37 ayaz2810 wrote:
I came expecting some huge drama. This isn't a big deal. People made less of a stink over DIablo 3 being online only even for single player. I've never met anyone who uses the Razer software anyway O.o there is no other way to configure a razer product but through their drivers. (DPI, macros, buttons) New procuts by razer will only work using that said new software. in they Terms of Usage they say that they are allowed to grab pretty much any information system AND PERSONAL related and use it to their own needs. this is on no way compareable to diablo3 which just needs u to be online while playing.
No it doesn't. You should read it again. It says they can collect it (most companies do, shocker!) and they can share anything BUT personal information except by a reasonable guideline that every other company that collects personally identifiable data does (Facebook, Blizzard, pretty much any site you write your name and address on, herp derp).
It's like, people don't even stop to think about things anymore, they just go into this flight or fight primal instinct mode where they all turn into scared squirrels and freak out about the littlest things. People are just dying for something to have an uproar about because their lives are actually this boring and meaningless.
Find something else to do with your time, all of you, who are digging with spy glasses to find something unreasonable or unfair about this policy.
Or better yet, don't buy a fucking Naga because the mouse is awful. If you're any good at whatever game you're trying to play with it, you legit don't need that many buttons to play at a professional level, no one does. I played a Hunter in WOW, they had over 65 necessary hot keys in order to function properly (IE: at a high level) and the naga's 24 buttons weren't even -close- to being needed.
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On November 03 2012 23:40 gawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:35 schimmetje wrote:
Best part is it's even on the description of the product. So you *know* this if you read what you buy:
Razer Synapse 2.0 is cutting-edge intuitive proprietary software that functions as the Razer Naga’s brain automatically syncing the gaming mouse to a cloud server to download driver and firmware updates, as well as save individual gamer settings without you needing to lift a finger.
It's right there. Learn to read. That does not say you need internet to use the mouse properly. As in the op: Show nested quote +Nowhere on the box does it say anything about needing an internet connection to "activate" a mouse. If the servers go down in the future, anyone who buys this mouse is out of luck.
It does actually. It literally says in the product description on every online store (and thus very likely the box, though I don't have it, feel free to prove me wrong) that to use the Synapse software you access a cloud server. Omg. You people are giving me a headache.
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Oh well, that's enough for me. I was on the fence about Razer already, but that's enough.
I'm done buying Razer products. Cheers.
*Because of the always online BS for a mouse. I don't care if it's not all their products, that's just shoddy.
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Well, time to go back to intellimouse.
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Wow, never going to touch a Razer product, this is absolutely ridiculous. Online mode only hardware? Rofl.
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On November 03 2012 23:41 openbox1 wrote:
I was surprised as well that the software for Razer peripherals was so overreaching.
First, Synapses 2.0 runs the program upon boot and I have one more window to close at start-up.
2nd, contrary to what some people are confused about, you can't program the additional buttons without the Synapses 2.0 software. So unless you're happy to just get functionality with 2 buttons on a 15+ button mouse, and lose all led lightning, you're really crippling the product without registration.
I have occasionally had screen popups about new updates to Synapses pop up. What's irritating is that the software requires a full reboot upon update. Also, everytime they configure a new default macro setting for individual games BF3, Diablo 3 etc... Synapses 2.0 tells me to update and reboot. That's alot of reboots for someone who leaves his computer on 24/7. I'm sure there are options to remove alerts/updates but for the vast majority of users, I doubt they'll delve deeply into the software to unmark those checkboxes.
Really Razer should make their software less intrusive. I think having an online profile might be useful so you can share the settings across computers, but make it optional not compulsory. People have never liked being forced to do something and given Razer makes very replaceable commodity products, I would think they'd like to stop pissing off their fan base.
The Naga molten will be my last razer product as a result of this lousy experience. Will be trying out Steelseries or Logitech given everyone raves about their products.
Then those people don't deserve the software. It's incredibly easy to prevent that program from starting on startup, literally google the exact thing you want to do and it'll be within the first 3 results.
It's not intrusive, you're using the word wrong, and anyone who buys any sort of thing probably should spend what, 10 minutes browsing through the software to see what they can do with it? Why even bother purchasing something with related software if you aren't going to look at it?
SteelSeries mice come with a similar thing, I used the software to customize it exactly as I want it then shut it from turning on on start up. This process took me no more than 20 minutes, how long as your Naga been bothering you and you've just never bothered to even look at it?
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I use a razer mouse and keyboard but I never use the drivers, as they are buggy as hell.
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On November 03 2012 23:46 Kich wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:41 openbox1 wrote:
I was surprised as well that the software for Razer peripherals was so overreaching.
First, Synapses 2.0 runs the program upon boot and I have one more window to close at start-up.
2nd, contrary to what some people are confused about, you can't program the additional buttons without the Synapses 2.0 software. So unless you're happy to just get functionality with 2 buttons on a 15+ button mouse, and lose all led lightning, you're really crippling the product without registration.
I have occasionally had screen popups about new updates to Synapses pop up. What's irritating is that the software requires a full reboot upon update. Also, everytime they configure a new default macro setting for individual games BF3, Diablo 3 etc... Synapses 2.0 tells me to update and reboot. That's alot of reboots for someone who leaves his computer on 24/7. I'm sure there are options to remove alerts/updates but for the vast majority of users, I doubt they'll delve deeply into the software to unmark those checkboxes.
Really Razer should make their software less intrusive. I think having an online profile might be useful so you can share the settings across computers, but make it optional not compulsory. People have never liked being forced to do something and given Razer makes very replaceable commodity products, I would think they'd like to stop pissing off their fan base.
The Naga molten will be my last razer product as a result of this lousy experience. Will be trying out Steelseries or Logitech given everyone raves about their products. Then those people don't deserve the software. It's incredibly easy to prevent that program from starting on startup, literally google the exact thing you want to do and it'll be within the first 3 results. It's not intrusive, you're using the word wrong, and anyone who buys any sort of thing probably should spend what, 10 minutes browsing through the software to see what they can do with it? Why even bother purchasing something with related software if you aren't going to look at it? SteelSeries mice come with a similar thing, I used the software to customize it exactly as I want it then shut it from turning on on start up. This process took me no more than 20 minutes, how long as your Naga been bothering you and you've just never bothered to even look at it?
Why do you willingly bendover and take it? The computer/gaming industry has been getting more outrageous with their shit over the past 10 years. In any other industry this shit wouldn't fly yet because of people like you they get away with it.
"Oh your account got hacked??? your fault for not having the 10$ blizzard account protection etc, how stupid can you be? all accounts get hacked nowadays."
Activision's CEO openly states they sell games in pieces nowadays to make more money, putting out an infeior product, but people like you just let it happen,
You disgust me.
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I don't use razer products anymore. First Deathadder was glitchy and so I had to exchange it. Second death adder did not even last a year. Blackwidow started to flex.
Some tips for razer;
- Don't make products with a gloss surface. Their motto is "For gamers, by gamers". I don't want something that's made for a fashion show.
- I don't want your super bad software just to be able to use certain functions of your product.
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Got a razer abyssus a few months ago, but didn't have to activate anything yet. Its software sucks, because it always resets settings at restart, so i don't use it. Would be quite angry if i had to.
The big thing here is that you have to activate their newer hardware online now. That's just annoying, and completely unnecessary. What's the benefit of that? Copyright protection for hardware? (lol)
Clearly only a way of making datamining more effective.
Won't buy any razer product which forces me to activate it online. (thanks for the information op)
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Yeah, when my Blackwidow broke, I waited 1h30 to be told that I should try calling again tomorrow. Honestly, people should really look into logitech mice... they're so much better and their customer service is incredible.
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i never user the software they come with anyway, can never get it to feel just right, i know allthe settings on a regular plug an d play mouse and it feels just right.
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Bring it back to where you bought it if this is not mentioned on the package. Don't buy Razer products anymore. This is completely over the top, if all companies start doing this stuff, you'll get completely crazy with all those accounts (different password rules, etc.). Also its better to not trusts any company regarding private data.
Thanks for the warning, so i can avoid the razer trap.
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My main problem is - as always - the lack of choice / options.
I personally only have 1 profile. I dont use macros and have only 2 buttons/keybindings remapped. I like the Razer ergonomy, so I'd hate to switch to another mouse.
I also have a shitton of space on my HDD, or on USB sticks if I'm really forced to switch PCs. So why not have an option to use a normal file?
Sure Cloud might be interesting for some people, but for a lot the privacy is a more important feature. And since they dont offer an option for privacy, which I value more, I'd sadly have to say that was my last Razer mouse.
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On November 03 2012 23:43 schimmetje wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:40 gawk wrote:On November 03 2012 23:35 schimmetje wrote:
Best part is it's even on the description of the product. So you *know* this if you read what you buy:
Razer Synapse 2.0 is cutting-edge intuitive proprietary software that functions as the Razer Naga’s brain automatically syncing the gaming mouse to a cloud server to download driver and firmware updates, as well as save individual gamer settings without you needing to lift a finger.
It's right there. Learn to read. That does not say you need internet to use the mouse properly. As in the op: Nowhere on the box does it say anything about needing an internet connection to "activate" a mouse. If the servers go down in the future, anyone who buys this mouse is out of luck. It does actually. It literally says in the product description on every online store (and thus very likely the box, though I don't have it, feel free to prove me wrong) that to use the Synapse software you access a cloud server. Omg. You people are giving me a headache.
I told you in the 4 sentences you quoted that it is not mentioned on the box (as op wrote). Depending on what online store you buy the mouse at it does not tell you in the description.
And when I read that the mouse comes with a software to sync my settings to the internet I don't expect it to require internet even to setup the basic stuff.
It seems they force the online activation because otherwise most customers wouldn't bother registering.
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So im confused, people are saying that with the new mouses that the built in windows plug n play disables the LED/extra buttons/scroll wheel/dpi changer, yet Im using windows plug n play for my lachesis and all of those functions still work properly(i ditched the razer drivers because my mouse would randomly go from center of the screen to the side without me even touching it). What specifically about these mice keeps them from operating the same way?
Also, STOP WITH THIS CLOUD BULL SHIT PEOPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY PROFILES THAT THEY NEED CLOUD STORAGE ON A FLIPPIN MOUSE?! I have 1 profile, "DEFAULT" and then I just edit the mouse sensitivity in game if its not where I like it.
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On November 04 2012 00:11 FromShouri wrote:
So im confused, people are saying that with the new mouses that the built in windows plug n play disables the LED/extra buttons/scroll wheel/dpi changer, yet Im using windows plug n play for my lachesis and all of those functions still work properly(i ditched the razer drivers because my mouse would randomly go from center of the screen to the side without me even touching it). What specifically about these mice keeps them from operating the same way?
Also, STOP WITH THIS CLOUD BULL SHIT PEOPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY PROFILES THAT THEY NEED CLOUD STORAGE ON A FLIPPIN MOUSE?! I have 1 profile, "DEFAULT" and then I just edit the mouse sensitivity in game if its not where I like it.
Not with most Razer mice, but with the amount of buttons you have on a Razer Naga it's not unthinkable to have different macros for different games, hences the need for multiple profiles. Also, when people from a family / live together share a PC.
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I don't know if it's the case with all mice, but my Razer Diamondback 3.5G mouse stopped working after its black cable (not the USB part!) was above a little bit of water... Then, I bought a cheap mouse (Logitech B110) from Amazon for 5 pounds, and it works almost like the one from Razer. I think I'll refrain from buying from Razer from now on.
Edit: The funny thing is the mouse is *still* recognised by Windows, but that red laser thing is not on anymore.
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On November 04 2012 00:13 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:11 FromShouri wrote:
So im confused, people are saying that with the new mouses that the built in windows plug n play disables the LED/extra buttons/scroll wheel/dpi changer, yet Im using windows plug n play for my lachesis and all of those functions still work properly(i ditched the razer drivers because my mouse would randomly go from center of the screen to the side without me even touching it). What specifically about these mice keeps them from operating the same way?
Also, STOP WITH THIS CLOUD BULL SHIT PEOPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY PROFILES THAT THEY NEED CLOUD STORAGE ON A FLIPPIN MOUSE?! I have 1 profile, "DEFAULT" and then I just edit the mouse sensitivity in game if its not where I like it. Not with most Razer mice, but with the amount of buttons you have on a Razer Naga it's not unthinkable to have different macros for different games, hences the need for multiple profiles. Also, when people from a family / live together share a PC.
I can understand the family thing, but even then, how many of them are so "hardcore" that they A)Don't use their own equipment and B)Couldn't put up with the settings as is. When I lived at home and there was only 1 PC in my house I had my own keyboard/mouse because I couldn't stand the slow ass compaq ball mouse/generic keyboard that came with my families PC. But before I got my own keyboard/mouse I just easily dealt with it.
Same with people living together, my fiancee plays my PC sometimes when our daughter is using our HTPC in the living room and she just deals with the extra sensitivity.
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On November 03 2012 23:55 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:46 Kich wrote:On November 03 2012 23:41 openbox1 wrote:
I was surprised as well that the software for Razer peripherals was so overreaching.
First, Synapses 2.0 runs the program upon boot and I have one more window to close at start-up.
2nd, contrary to what some people are confused about, you can't program the additional buttons without the Synapses 2.0 software. So unless you're happy to just get functionality with 2 buttons on a 15+ button mouse, and lose all led lightning, you're really crippling the product without registration.
I have occasionally had screen popups about new updates to Synapses pop up. What's irritating is that the software requires a full reboot upon update. Also, everytime they configure a new default macro setting for individual games BF3, Diablo 3 etc... Synapses 2.0 tells me to update and reboot. That's alot of reboots for someone who leaves his computer on 24/7. I'm sure there are options to remove alerts/updates but for the vast majority of users, I doubt they'll delve deeply into the software to unmark those checkboxes.
Really Razer should make their software less intrusive. I think having an online profile might be useful so you can share the settings across computers, but make it optional not compulsory. People have never liked being forced to do something and given Razer makes very replaceable commodity products, I would think they'd like to stop pissing off their fan base.
The Naga molten will be my last razer product as a result of this lousy experience. Will be trying out Steelseries or Logitech given everyone raves about their products. Then those people don't deserve the software. It's incredibly easy to prevent that program from starting on startup, literally google the exact thing you want to do and it'll be within the first 3 results. It's not intrusive, you're using the word wrong, and anyone who buys any sort of thing probably should spend what, 10 minutes browsing through the software to see what they can do with it? Why even bother purchasing something with related software if you aren't going to look at it? SteelSeries mice come with a similar thing, I used the software to customize it exactly as I want it then shut it from turning on on start up. This process took me no more than 20 minutes, how long as your Naga been bothering you and you've just never bothered to even look at it? Why do you willingly bendover and take it? The computer/gaming industry has been getting more outrageous with their shit over the past 10 years. In any other industry this shit wouldn't fly yet because of people like you they get away with it.
Easy. Look at who sponsors Team Liquid. Some people here are shills for Razor, and other's blindly think that any sponsor for TL can do no wrong and will defend them because in their mind if the sponsor leaves, TL might suffer.
Oh, and that whole statement from the Razor CEO is nothing but BS. People needing the cloud to keep mouse prices down? How big are these macros? You can buy 1GB flash drives on Amazon for 2 dollars, which means they cost even less than that.
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This thread is ridiculous. The upshot is that you can't use the mouse if you NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET EVER. But if you do have access to the internet, you can create a profile and register the product (OH NOS!), and after that, set it to offline mode and NEVER NEED THE INTERNET AGAIN EVER to use the product properly with full functionality.
The ToS thing is also kinda silly because there's tons of shit that collects personal data that you already use. You know what they use this personal data for? Ads. That's it. They put ads up that they think you'll like more. They find out who is using their products (demographic data; a/s/l kinda shit) and make ads for them. It's why your internet is (mostly) free. Get over it.
What an absurd thread.
edit: FWIW, I use Logitech mice and have for years. Never bought a Razer product in my life
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On November 04 2012 00:18 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:13 S_SienZ wrote:On November 04 2012 00:11 FromShouri wrote:
So im confused, people are saying that with the new mouses that the built in windows plug n play disables the LED/extra buttons/scroll wheel/dpi changer, yet Im using windows plug n play for my lachesis and all of those functions still work properly(i ditched the razer drivers because my mouse would randomly go from center of the screen to the side without me even touching it). What specifically about these mice keeps them from operating the same way?
Also, STOP WITH THIS CLOUD BULL SHIT PEOPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY PROFILES THAT THEY NEED CLOUD STORAGE ON A FLIPPIN MOUSE?! I have 1 profile, "DEFAULT" and then I just edit the mouse sensitivity in game if its not where I like it. Not with most Razer mice, but with the amount of buttons you have on a Razer Naga it's not unthinkable to have different macros for different games, hences the need for multiple profiles. Also, when people from a family / live together share a PC. I can understand the family thing, but even then, how many of them are so "hardcore" that they A)Don't use their own equipment and B)Couldn't put up with the settings as is. When I lived at home and there was only 1 PC in my house I had my own keyboard/mouse because I couldn't stand the slow ass compaq ball mouse/generic keyboard that came with my families PC. But before I got my own keyboard/mouse I just easily dealt with it. Same with people living together, my fiancee plays my PC sometimes when our daughter is using our HTPC in the living room and she just deals with the extra sensitivity.
Well then it's a conflict between convenience and privacy isn't it? You can't objectively claim one is universally preferred over the other, especially in today's world with stuff like facebook.
Personally I don't think it's that big a deal, you only need internet ONCE for activation, and can use it in offline mode forever. Even last year when I was living without internet, I could easily go to a Starbucks or my uni's library whenever I needed to activate new software / games.
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What i don't understand is how someone at razor can think that this is good business. I am done with razor products since a similar experience to this one "First Deathadder was glitchy and so I had to exchange it. Second death adder did not even last a year." anyways, so it does not really apply to me, but i always thought that those "gaming hardware" companies are based mostly on consumer goodwill and repeat customers. Adding additional hassle to your products for no apparent reason does not sound like a smart idea to me, but of course i don't work for them and don't know the specifics.
I can't imagine that storage space is really a concern, however. How large can a single profile be? 100kB? You basically just need a few data points in plain text. And memory for that kind of data is pretty much unlimited on any device in 2012.
DRM for hardware is retarded too, it's not like you can pirate a mouse.
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Thanks for the heads up.
Razer: this stinks. Certainly not a 'by gamers' move. More of a 'by dickheads' move.
Not going to consider your brand now.
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On November 04 2012 00:38 Badjas wrote:
Thanks for the heads up.
Razer: this stinks. Certainly not a 'by gamers' move. More of a 'by dickheads' move.
Not going to consider your brand now.
by old business owners for suckers.
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On November 04 2012 00:21 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:18 FromShouri wrote:On November 04 2012 00:13 S_SienZ wrote:On November 04 2012 00:11 FromShouri wrote:
So im confused, people are saying that with the new mouses that the built in windows plug n play disables the LED/extra buttons/scroll wheel/dpi changer, yet Im using windows plug n play for my lachesis and all of those functions still work properly(i ditched the razer drivers because my mouse would randomly go from center of the screen to the side without me even touching it). What specifically about these mice keeps them from operating the same way?
Also, STOP WITH THIS CLOUD BULL SHIT PEOPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY PROFILES THAT THEY NEED CLOUD STORAGE ON A FLIPPIN MOUSE?! I have 1 profile, "DEFAULT" and then I just edit the mouse sensitivity in game if its not where I like it. Not with most Razer mice, but with the amount of buttons you have on a Razer Naga it's not unthinkable to have different macros for different games, hences the need for multiple profiles. Also, when people from a family / live together share a PC. I can understand the family thing, but even then, how many of them are so "hardcore" that they A)Don't use their own equipment and B)Couldn't put up with the settings as is. When I lived at home and there was only 1 PC in my house I had my own keyboard/mouse because I couldn't stand the slow ass compaq ball mouse/generic keyboard that came with my families PC. But before I got my own keyboard/mouse I just easily dealt with it. Same with people living together, my fiancee plays my PC sometimes when our daughter is using our HTPC in the living room and she just deals with the extra sensitivity. Well then it's a conflict between convenience and privacy isn't it? You can't objectively claim one is universally preferred over the other, especially in today's world with stuff like facebook. Personally I don't think it's that big a deal, you only need internet ONCE for activation, and can use it in offline mode forever. Even last year when I was living without internet, I could easily go to a Starbucks or my uni's library whenever I needed to activate new software / games.
I would like to think privacy is universally preferred but you're right I can't say it with 100% truth because there are a lot of idiots out there. And it kind of is a big deal, internet activation for something I will never want or use(cloud storage is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of, especially if you're some what intelligent enough to install a mouse, as simple as that is) So it really is a big deal for me to be forced to use something that really....I will never need or want. The more companies force me towards cloud storage the more I resist and refuse to buy their products. I am the master of my data and I will not trust another person with my data, because even if they collect small things such as what programs I run on my computer or what games I play, that is still MY information and MY business, not razers.
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What bothers me the most is this part of ToS:
From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.
As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want.
Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous.
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On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: Show nested quote +From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want. Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous.
Not really. They don't actually have any way to yank the soundtrack for your PC.
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It's probably not actually related to spying, but razer added something to the last Deathadder driver (3.0.5) before the Synapse release that was digitally signed by "G SPY Co. ltd.", and there was no information about that company online, so I switched back to 3.0.3 and will stick to that until my mouse dies.
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This does seem to be a bit of a tinfoil hat thread to be honest. Virtually every company does this, and the guy in the OP is most likely incompetent as others have noted, or his system is just messed up as others have had no problems.
First and foremost why doesn't everyone read the privacy policy for themselves? They aren't spying on you and taking notes on your personal habits, and then sharing it with other companies to let them know what you, specifically, do on your spare time.
“aggregate information” is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of Subscribers as a group (which may include computer system and device data) but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular Subscriber.
“individual information” is information about a Subscriber (which may include computer system and device data) that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other Subscribers but not in a form that personally identifies any Subscriber or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any Subscriber unless agreed to by the Subscriber in advance of such communication.
“personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified.
By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below...
Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy...
Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber.
As another poster put it, this is standard legalese. Every company does this.
Secondly, on the issue of having to be "constantly online", as was noted on the second page of this thread:
On November 03 2012 22:58 S_SienZ wrote:
Posted by Min Liang Tan (CEO) facebook:
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out.
Honestly this thread is more enlightening as an example of how easy it is for people to make misinformed decisions and go into conspiracy mode off of a very superficial reading of someone else's account, without taking the time to investigate things themselves. Please learn from this example everyone, it IS important to look at things yourself and not assume that Razer is just stealing your personal information for various nefarious purposes because someone else said so.
This is standard legal procedure, and it includes protecting your right to privacy and personally identifiable information. The only thing they collect is non-specific information in aggregate about the game related habits of the majority of users, so that they can tailor their future products to their customers better.
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On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: Show nested quote +From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want.Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous.
Highly doubt that would ever happen. Any judge who allows that rule would be the laughing stock of the modern age.
To elaborate more copyrighted works are generally referred to as "intellectual creations", and any competent IP lawyer would definitely look to distinguish that from "generated".
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Wow this is actually a turn-off, I'm currently looking for a mouse and pad that fits my need. The Razer Taipan was my top candidate but I don't want to deal with online DRMs or activation crap. Now, I can't even use the software without online connection?
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On November 04 2012 00:54 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want.Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous. Highly doubt that would ever happen. Any judge who allows that rule would be the laughing stock of the modern age. To elaborate more copyrighted works are generally referred to as "intellectual creations", and any competent IP lawyer would definitely look to distinguish that from "generated".
Seconding this...do you honestly believe you have the right interpretation here. That razer has the right to use anything that anyone makes on their computer regardless of copyright, anyway they want? Really?
It says through the use of the software. So that is very specific. It probably relates to the various services that you use through the software, which the company then uses to understand its target demographic better.
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First and foremost why doesn't everyone read the privacy policy for themselves? They aren't spying on you and taking notes on your personal habits, and then sharing it with other companies to let them know what you, specifically, do on your spare time.
To be fair... who really has the patience and capacity to scrutinize the privacy policy in its entirety besides some sort of government or private auditing agency?
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"We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory"
This is hilarious. How much onboard memory do you need for mouse profiles? 10Kb? Super weak comment from the CEO of Razer.
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On November 04 2012 00:47 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want. Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous. Not really. They don't actually have any way to yank the soundtrack for your PC.
Well, they don't specify exactly what information is being transmitted ("made available to Razer") by their software, so it might as well be screenshots of your display. The Privacy Policy is more explicit about what kind of information is being gathered though.
And yeah, I'm sure they don't want the screenshots of all the shit that I do on my PC, but I do dislike companies being vague about what exactly information they are gathering.
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On November 04 2012 01:01 blinken wrote:
"We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory"
This is hilarious. How much onboard memory do you need for mouse profiles? 10Kb? Super weak comment from the CEO of Razer.
I have to agree on this, the price is already retardedly high, and the memory is a bullshit excuse. We can fly to the moon on 200kb of memory but we can't save some data on a mouse without needing massive storage?
Instead of cloud storage they should get some more lean programmers working on their software.
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On November 04 2012 00:58 radscorpion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:54 S_SienZ wrote:On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want.Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous. Highly doubt that would ever happen. Any judge who allows that rule would be the laughing stock of the modern age. To elaborate more copyrighted works are generally referred to as "intellectual creations", and any competent IP lawyer would definitely look to distinguish that from "generated". Seconding this...do you honestly believe you have the right interpretation here. That razer has the right to use anything that anyone makes on their computer regardless of copyright, anyway they want? Really? It says through the use of the software. So that is very specific. It probably relates to the various services that you use through the software, which the company then uses to understand its target demographic better.
I agree with both of you. I was criticizing the fact that the part about user generated information was vague and open to interpretations. Also, the fact that companies usually don't tell what information they are collecting.
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Hmm. I just recently bought a Deathadder 3.5G. And yeah, Synapse 2.0 bothers me, mostly because it's obnoxious and unnecessary to require "accounts" for every damn thing. (What's next, I have to create an account to use my monitor's features?)
It's true most people don't read the Terms of Service. And unless you are a board certified lawyer, don't even begin to think you have an idea of what it can mean, even if you do read it. If you think common sense or simple meaning will stand up in a court, you're probably wrong. There are limits, but a legal professional is paid to win however they can and push the limits as far as possible if required. If they must argue that black is white and down is up, they will. And if they have a good argument, it may work.
All of that is irrelevant to the real problem with Synapse 2.0 - it sucks. Not just the gateway to pull drivers off, but also just in the new Synapse 2.0 plus drivers means my mouse gets the jitters, can't disconnect ever or it stutters every 2.5 seconds. and generally just becomes impossible to use in any serious fashion. It's got the latest firmware, I'm not buying a mouse just to put scotch tape over the sensor, and that's about all the advice I found on how to "fix it". Oh, I did find the following advice which worked - install the Razer drivers (any version for the product) - configure the way I want it to work. Uninstall all Razer software.
Works beautifully, best mouse I've had since I did that.
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On November 04 2012 01:01 blinken wrote:
"We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory"
This is hilarious. How much onboard memory do you need for mouse profiles? 10Kb? Super weak comment from the CEO of Razer.
I'm so glad someone said this. This was literally the first thing I thought of when I read the CEO's letter. Even with massive amounts of macros you're barely going to take up any space. What a joke.
Things like these make it really hard to not be paranoid.
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On November 04 2012 00:19 GeorgeForeman wrote:
This thread is ridiculous. The upshot is that you can't use the mouse if you NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET EVER. But if you do have access to the internet, you can create a profile and register the product (OH NOS!), and after that, set it to offline mode and NEVER NEED THE INTERNET AGAIN EVER to use the product properly with full functionality.
The ToS thing is also kinda silly because there's tons of shit that collects personal data that you already use. You know what they use this personal data for? Ads. That's it. They put ads up that they think you'll like more. They find out who is using their products (demographic data; a/s/l kinda shit) and make ads for them. It's why your internet is (mostly) free. Get over it.
What an absurd thread.
edit: FWIW, I use Logitech mice and have for years. Never bought a Razer product in my life
Just because something isn't abused now, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Besides, private data gets stolen all the time so there's absolutely no reason for companies to have more data than they need. And no, targeted ads don't count. Who cares about fucking ads anyway.
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It's absurd how few of you actually know what you are talking about.The mouse does not need an internet connection to function. What they do is they store your mouse profiles online instead of in a onboard memory. Ofcourse you have to register an account, how else would they link our profiles to you? After that you can put in it online mode and never connect to a razer server again and if you dont need profiles ou dont even have to make and account, just plug and play.
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On November 04 2012 01:56 3772 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:19 GeorgeForeman wrote:
This thread is ridiculous. The upshot is that you can't use the mouse if you NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET EVER. But if you do have access to the internet, you can create a profile and register the product (OH NOS!), and after that, set it to offline mode and NEVER NEED THE INTERNET AGAIN EVER to use the product properly with full functionality.
The ToS thing is also kinda silly because there's tons of shit that collects personal data that you already use. You know what they use this personal data for? Ads. That's it. They put ads up that they think you'll like more. They find out who is using their products (demographic data; a/s/l kinda shit) and make ads for them. It's why your internet is (mostly) free. Get over it.
What an absurd thread.
edit: FWIW, I use Logitech mice and have for years. Never bought a Razer product in my life Just because something isn't abused now, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Besides, private data gets stolen all the time so there's absolutely no reason for companies to have more data than they need. And no, targeted ads don't count. Who cares about fucking ads anyway.
Have you read the privacy policy by any chance? Any "abuse" would already have been covered by the law.
Freaking out over pure speculation doesn't seem to make much sense.
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A mouse connecting to the cloud makes no sense at all.
Memory is ridicously small and cheap.
And just for some settings, profile etc?
Memory storing the profile and settings data of all Razer Naga users together should be able to fit in 1 mouse.
Memory storing the profile and settings data of one Razer Naga user should be able to fit in 1 of the leds, most of which aren't needed anyway.
Also,
Props to TL for not trying to hide a discussion that puts their sponsor in a bit negative light, plenty of less objective community portals would.
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Spyware isn't a new thing. If you have something that really requires privacy, don't share it on the Internet much like you wouldn't do it in the middle of a city. The fact that companies trade your trivial personal data has very little real impact on our lives aside from slightly overspecialized ads or whatever.
I am not concerned at all as long as Razer's cloud servers remain stable. That seems to have been the only real problem and Razer is aware of it and working on it.
The devices are functional without Synapse, so you'll have something to work with regardless of whether you can or can't access the Internet. And frankly, if you have enough Internet issues to find yourself unable to even register a Synapse account and log in once to enable offline mode, then really - WTF?
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hnmmm, quite an annoying issue - do you guys know if this also applies to older razer products, say a deatchadder black edition? if no, i might buy one or two of them just to stock up and give me more time until i need a new mouse, so other manufacturers can produce new mice that i might like.
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On November 04 2012 01:55 Krohm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 01:01 blinken wrote:
"We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory"
This is hilarious. How much onboard memory do you need for mouse profiles? 10Kb? Super weak comment from the CEO of Razer. I'm so glad someone said this. This was literally the first thing I thought of when I read the CEO's letter. Even with massive amounts of macros you're barely going to take up any space. What a joke. Things like these make it really hard to not be paranoid.
Well I have a Steelseries Sensei and the mouse only has room for 4 profiles now and 1 spot used for the steelseries engine. Honestly dont really need more space than that. Like every shooter you'll play will probably have the same settings. Every RTS you'll play will probably have different settings than your FPS settings but wont change per RTS you play.
No real reason to even have "unlimited space" as the macros are sitting on your computer with the engine and you just put them into a profile which is litterally no space at all.
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The question is, does it matter if they spy? By now anyone with a half-functioning brain knows he is being spied upon by hundreds of different institutions, often without your consent. Sure it can make you feel paranoid, but in this capitalist world where companies fight over bringing their costumers content that is tuned to the individual user they really don't have much of a choice.
As long as we live in a relatively free democacry (I assume most people who can read TL live relatively free, though not always a democracy), this collection, storage and application of knowledge surrounding our personal interests is not a big issue. If anything, it improves your user experience. Do you honestly think John Doe who works at such a company and gets to see the list of your personal mouse settings gives a damn anyway? 
I like the two sides of the OP through the edit, it gives a clear view on what's goin on. I think that although the service spies on you (to improve their future products), the benefits in return outweigh it by far.
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Yeah. I don't think I'll ever buy a razer mouse then. Updates as they please is already one performance issue. Constant polling of information from their servers is another one. So every minute I have to check all my settings on the cloud to use them? No thanks.
If your connection drops out for any reason, the Synapse software will make a habbit of locking up on you while it transitions to offline mode. During that time your settings may revert or possibly not be saved.
This part bugs me.
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That's pretty huge. Was thinking about buying a Razer Ouroboros to replace my strong DeathAdder, but looks like my next mouse isn't going to be a Razer one.
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I have no fucking clue why you need to DRM a mouse.
It's not like people are going to pirate a piece of hardware.
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People saying READ THE ToS you IDIOTS!!!... wow. Have you ever read one of these? And without a a background in law did you understand what any of it really means? No. There are so many technicalities even if you got the gist of it it wouldn't actually do you any good.
Also as stated the CEO's statement is absolute horse shit. So much memory that its gonna make your razer mouse even more ridiculously expensive? ok.
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This is a lot of fuss over nothing.
I just don't see how this matters.
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it really depends what information it's grabbing.
it just looks like they are saving the information on the cloud (which is, putting information on their servers)
or you can run wireshark and try to read the packets to see what kind of data they are sending. might be just your settings. maybe not. Also that disclaimer is pretty standard that almost any website you'd see that, but doesn't mean they WILL sell your information, nor would it be 100% the information you're thinking of.
also
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
when hdd's are TB+ now? why would that fucking matter?
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Aren't there laws that protect against bullshit contracts and ToS? Not everyone is a lawyer and can perfectly understand certain lingo, or even understand a lot of it.
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On November 04 2012 04:06 DigiGnar wrote:
Aren't there laws that protect against bullshit contracts and ToS? Not everyone is a lawyer and can perfectly understand certain lingo, or even understand a lot of it. Any EULA content that violates international or national law is void in EU. The thing about this "spying" thing though, seems that they only collect non personal data, which with your consent is not illegal.
Edit: From their ToS:
“aggregate information” is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of Subscribers as a group (which may include computer system and device data) but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular Subscriber.
“individual information” is information about a Subscriber (which may include computer system and device data) that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other Subscribers but not in a form that personally identifies any Subscriber or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any Subscriber unless agreed to by the Subscriber in advance of such communication.
“personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified.
By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance.
While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information.
In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers.
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information.
Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy.
Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber.
Basically it seems like they don't gather any personal information unless you enter it yourself.
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Is anyone else sick of the incredibly misleading and inflammatory titles in the General section?
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How much "storage space" does a profile of mouse settings require? I cannot believe adding a little flash memory to a mouse raises the price any appreciable amount.
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Everyone worrying about this... can't you just use an older Driver (like 3.0.3) and not worry about this at all?
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There is a bigger, underlying problem, I just noticed. They say that Synapse 2.0 is cloud storage..but that kind of defeats the whole purpose of the "profile on the go" which the old system used, where you could plug your mouse into a new computer (for instance, compo PCs on lans), and have it work perfectly without installing the drivers, because they where all stored on the mouse.
By the sound of it, you now HAVE to install the drivers for the profiles to work? What a huge setback compared to other gaming mouses in the same price league.
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I can see it being pretty annoying to have to register a mouse online, but who cares if they're "spying" on you? It's not like they're looking through your e-mail and posting your private stuff up on Facebook or something.
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On November 04 2012 01:55 Krohm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 01:01 blinken wrote:
"We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory"
This is hilarious. How much onboard memory do you need for mouse profiles? 10Kb? Super weak comment from the CEO of Razer. I'm so glad someone said this. This was literally the first thing I thought of when I read the CEO's letter. Even with massive amounts of macros you're barely going to take up any space. What a joke. Things like these make it really hard to not be paranoid.
It's very easy to not be paranoid when you know there are thousands of nutjobs out there that test every application inside a virtual machine on separate partition on a brand new hard drive in a sterilized room that is vacuum-sealed.
Okay, maybe I took that a bit far, but still, if they were taking your credit cards, we would know.
On November 04 2012 04:19 Cainam wrote:
Is anyone else sick of the incredibly misleading and inflammatory titles in the General section?
Dear God, yes. Please start giving out warnings for this.
The only threads that get comments are the ones whose titles read like they were ripped from FoxNews.com.
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On November 03 2012 23:46 Kich wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:41 openbox1 wrote:
I was surprised as well that the software for Razer peripherals was so overreaching.
First, Synapses 2.0 runs the program upon boot and I have one more window to close at start-up.
2nd, contrary to what some people are confused about, you can't program the additional buttons without the Synapses 2.0 software. So unless you're happy to just get functionality with 2 buttons on a 15+ button mouse, and lose all led lightning, you're really crippling the product without registration.
I have occasionally had screen popups about new updates to Synapses pop up. What's irritating is that the software requires a full reboot upon update. Also, everytime they configure a new default macro setting for individual games BF3, Diablo 3 etc... Synapses 2.0 tells me to update and reboot. That's alot of reboots for someone who leaves his computer on 24/7. I'm sure there are options to remove alerts/updates but for the vast majority of users, I doubt they'll delve deeply into the software to unmark those checkboxes.
Really Razer should make their software less intrusive. I think having an online profile might be useful so you can share the settings across computers, but make it optional not compulsory. People have never liked being forced to do something and given Razer makes very replaceable commodity products, I would think they'd like to stop pissing off their fan base.
The Naga molten will be my last razer product as a result of this lousy experience. Will be trying out Steelseries or Logitech given everyone raves about their products. Then those people don't deserve the software. It's incredibly easy to prevent that program from starting on startup, literally google the exact thing you want to do and it'll be within the first 3 results. It's not intrusive, you're using the word wrong, and anyone who buys any sort of thing probably should spend what, 10 minutes browsing through the software to see what they can do with it? Why even bother purchasing something with related software if you aren't going to look at it? SteelSeries mice come with a similar thing, I used the software to customize it exactly as I want it then shut it from turning on on start up. This process took me no more than 20 minutes, how long as your Naga been bothering you and you've just never bothered to even look at it?
Its intrusive because it keeps on popping up for me to update. I did eventually disable the auto update and notify.
Most people would not. How is that using the word wrong? Its also intrusive with the window open at start-up. Again wrong usage why? How do you define intrusive?
The software has to start up for you to use the additional keys as I mentioned. You also have to auto minimize at start-up (not prevent it starting completely). I haven't checked to see if that's possible. The fact is it shouldn't do that by default.
Isn't part of a good experience having software that's easy to use? Sure you can find guides online, but how hard do you have to make it to a) record macros, b) assign keys to buttons c) operate less intrusively ? I remember that Razer defines the "back" key as mouse button 4 or something silly like that. I like to have back on numeral 1 on the naga molten. Took me a few minutes to realize mouse button 4=back. Silly design which I don't remember from using the M518 logitech mouse.
I'm not saying they can't try to collect user data although why the hell a mouse peripheral driver requires that I would question, but synapse 2.0 is a piece of crap. The whole restart after update is a deal breaker especially since updates seem to come out every few days. I can understand an update if you're changing from version 1.0 to 2.0 but to restart to update new bindings for a game I don't have installed in my computer? Ridiculous and shoddy programming.
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If you are still able to adjust DPI via bottom-of-the-mouse switch, and bind to the number keys on the naga without installing this software, then it seems kinda pointless to make a big fuss over it. If you really can't do those things, then it seems ridiculous.
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Canada5155 Posts
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Having a hard time believing the CEO comment about onboard memory being too expensive.
Anyway after my previous two Razer mice I'm now rocking a CM Storm Spawn and perfectly happy. Their software looks ugly but has all the options one could need, and has never ever annoyed me with any popup or tooltip. I can even freely update the mouse firmware to any version to pick one that tracks better on white surfaces, or has lower liftoff distance, etc. Ohnoes I have to keep all the 45kb firmware files on my Dropbox, please make a CM Storm cloud service asap so I don't fill my Dropbox for nothing! :D
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I read the whole thread, some things are blown up but the point remains; You will need an internet connection to "activate" HARDWARE. (ie take full advantage of the product you have already paid for)
& another thing: China, why you so cheap? Your Keyboards are made with thinner-than-paper-clip stabilizers, some blue keyswitches with NO CLICK, & warped keyboard cases that can NOT sit flat. Now mice memory is too expensive? Did you even add diodes to the pcb for the "new" 2kro+? doubt it.
Possible the ToS just seems badly worded? Like can anyone copypasta a similar (steam, xbl) one since "they all say the same thing"?
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On November 04 2012 02:40 Black Gun wrote:
hnmmm, quite an annoying issue - do you guys know if this also applies to older razer products, say a deatchadder black edition? if no, i might buy one or two of them just to stock up and give me more time until i need a new mouse, so other manufacturers can produce new mice that i might like.
Yes, it does. I've actually stopped using my DE Black because I kept keeping looped through the update process, but never was able to activate the mouse (fixed now though). The Imperator I have isn't effected by Synapse, so I use that instead.
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Really poor decision by Razer here. Want to use the full funcitonality of the mouse? you have to register with us. Congrats on creating functionality DRM. Glad I use my mice as plug and play.
also, this Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
I believe this is the exact definition of double speak... disallowing cloud access/storage without registering is doing exactly what he says it's "not" doing.
Edit: I guess I should re-iterate like the massive mod note, doesn't stop you from using the mouse, but it does stop you from using the full functionality of it.
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Cool. I never liked Razer gear in the first place.
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how could they use me like this
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Russian Federation367 Posts
So.. What if I would buy Razer Deathadder 3500 will I run into this new "synapse"? Or I will use old drivers from time this mouse was released
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Hang on, have razor released a mouse with DRM or am i not reading this right?
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On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote:What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: Show nested quote +From the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
“User Generated Information” means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want. Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous.
No.
"any information made available to Razer" is your mouse settings
..
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I don't use razer gear. :D
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Canada5155 Posts
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine.
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On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use.
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Canada5155 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use.
You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you.
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On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine.
And complaining about crappy razer software especially Synapse 2.0 which is a joke. Plug and play works fine but that's not why people buy razr keyboards and mice which cost a little more than your plug and play 3 button scroll mice.
But agree, the title is a little sensationalistic.
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On November 04 2012 05:04 synapse wrote:
how could they use me like this
That's pretty funny. :D
On another note--if you are upset about this, I hope you don't use facebook.
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On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx "Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description.
The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where.
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i like and hate this new synapse thing
like because it automatically saves my settings such as the sensitivity to a "cloud".
hate because it asks to freaking RESTART my computer with a new update every fortnight or so!
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On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you.
HP, I don't think thats the issue, and you've missed the point the OP was trying to make.
The issue is that high end expensive hardware, purchased for its high end functionality, is rendered into only a BASIC peice of hardware, unless the buyer agrees to provide the subject information to obtain and use the software to UNLOCK and use the hardware properly.
Imagine if Nissan sold GTR's and after the consumer bought the car, the buyer found that Nissan restricted the horsepower to 50hp, unless the user agreed to a specific action, etc etc and cell phone connectivity, after which Nissan will unlock the other 400hp that the customer paid for.
Is it smart yet sneaky market data collection? Yes it is. Does Razer benefit? Yes it does. Does the customer somewhat benefit from the technology? Yes, in a way. Is it FAIR to the consumer? Not even close.
I won't comment on TL moderators/admins being biased or not, considering that Razer is a TL team sponsor. I trust that personal opinions and logic will prevail on that front.
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On November 04 2012 05:59 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. HP, I don't think thats the issue, and you've missed the point the OP was trying to make. The issue is that high end expensive hardware, purchased for its high end functionality, is rendered into only a BASIC peice of hardware, unless the buyer agrees to provide the subject information to obtain and use the software to UNLOCK and use the hardware properly. Imagine if Nissan sold GTR's and after the consumer bought the car, the buyer found that Nissan restricted the horsepower to 50hp, unless the user agreed to a specific action, etc etc and cell phone connectivity, after which Nissan will unlock the other 400hp that the customer paid for. I won't comment on TL moderators/admins being biased or not, considering that Razer is a TL team sponsor. I trust that personal opinions and logic will prevail on that front.
If that was the point the OP was making, he really should not have made a sensationalist title. It completely distracts from the point, if that was what he was trying to communicate.
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Canada5155 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:49 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx " Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where.
You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works.
Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties:
In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers.
If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is:
(i) Provided voluntarily, and
(ii) Used for public functions
This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it.
"Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy."
This one is even more reasonable.
Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS.
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so.
Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies.
The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard.
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The paranoia really is absurd. I can't fathom how people are worried about this. This is a weird weird thread.
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Will never buy a mouse that connects to the internet, no matter who they sponsor.
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On November 04 2012 06:12 caradoc wrote:
The paranoia really is absurd. I can't fathom how people are worried about this. This is a weird weird thread.
I think the main issue should be that you are required to connect to the internet, rather than the information thing, since the information thing is pretty much standard across everyone who makes you install software.
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On November 04 2012 06:21 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 06:12 caradoc wrote:
The paranoia really is absurd. I can't fathom how people are worried about this. This is a weird weird thread. I think the main issue should be that you are required to connect to the internet, rather than the information thing, since the information thing is pretty much standard across everyone who makes you install software.
Even the internet connection thing is basically standard if you want up to date drivers for anything.
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
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Good to know, will avoid Razer products in the future.
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On November 04 2012 06:09 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:49 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx " Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where. You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works. Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties: Show nested quote +In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is: (i) Provided voluntarily, and (ii) Used for public functions This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it. Show nested quote +"Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy." This one is even more reasonable. Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS. Show nested quote +Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so. Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies.
The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard. You can put whatever spin on it you like, matter of fact is still that Razer (along with many many other companies) uses the least informative way to gain consent to collect information. They're within the law, no question about it, but that does not change the fact that companys use EULAs (which nobody except people with paranoia or law-interested people read) to gain legal grounds to collect many forms of data.
DIRECTIVE 2009/136/EC put restrictions on cookies because they were essentially doing the same; gathering information about the data subject without knowing it, or not explaining CLEAR enough what the information is used for. I would not be surprised to see such a change forced on EULAs in the future.
I'm not in the slighest way paranoid, honestly I don't care what my informations are used for. What I don't like is the collection of data done by so many companys without specifically and very clearly notifying consumers of such an action. And I'm certain that a lot of people out there feel the same way. If companys like Razer want to collect ANY kind of data from our computer, they need to tell us directly without any chance of overlooking it, not hiding it among everything else the contract involves.
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Thank you so much HawaiianPig for bringing some sense to this thread.
The levels of paranoia and indignant rage over nothing are ridiculous.
I'm still getting a Razer BlackWidow - ordered it yesterday, haven't changed my mind after seeing this thread.
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I use NagaConfig application to configure my Naga offline, instead of using the Synapse software. I have the NagaConfig because I bought an old Naga (before Razer came out with Synapse). Synapse was such a pain to deal with.
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Judging by the amount of damage control coming from HawaiianPig, the only logical conclussion is that Razer already controls TL after stealing all the admin login dets when they installed SPYnapse.
Show's over folks, Razer just killed ESPORTS .
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On November 04 2012 07:39 Mittens wrote:Judging by the amount of damage control coming from HawaiianPig, the only logical conclussion is that Razer already controls TL after stealing all the admin login dets when they installed SPYnapse. Show's over folks, Razer just killed ESPORTS .
heheh, you don't screw with a major sponsor
Look at the first post. Rarely see this level of mod edit.
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I like the mod edit for this post, the ToS on any product include some stuff that we as consumers should probably pay more attention to than we do. I think it is more ridiculous that I would have to authenticate my mouse than Razer having my name and email.
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On November 04 2012 06:24 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 06:21 Lonyo wrote:On November 04 2012 06:12 caradoc wrote:
The paranoia really is absurd. I can't fathom how people are worried about this. This is a weird weird thread. I think the main issue should be that you are required to connect to the internet, rather than the information thing, since the information thing is pretty much standard across everyone who makes you install software. Even the internet connection thing is basically standard if you want up to date drivers for anything.
I can get drivers from other computers.
I can download drivers once, throw them into my personal storage.
[Usually there is even a driver CD bundled with the hardware.]
This online mode creates a totally unneccessary dependency on Razer.
What happens if Razer suddenly goes bancrupt? (Hopefully this doesnt happen, ofc, but you never know)
Then you cannot re-activate that Synapse stuff for example on a new pc? No settings changes?
What happens if in some years the revenue the Synapsis-Mice turn over goes down and cloud hosting is no longer profitable? Maybe they turn it off?
Maybe they want to sell some new mice? Oh, the temptation...
On the other hand, whats the benefit for the customer that requires forcing cloud synchronization? Why not make clound synchronization optional? I don't see any reason for that whatsoever.
Knowing that they are not after personal information, what other reasons are there to patronize their customers? Do they have problems with counterfeit goods? This decision doesn't really make sense to me.
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So in addition to the say 60 dollars you pay for a deathadder mouse you will also have to hand over your personal information just to get the mouse fully working?
This is unacceptable behaviour for a company that is selling 'premium' mice.
We invented onboard memory for gaming mice many years ago and called it Synapse to allow gamers to bring their profiles with them on the go. However, we realized that we ran into another issue where we had to keep increasing the amount of memory onboard to provide for more storage and this resulted in higher and higher prices for gamers.
We then invented Synapse 2.0 where we could provide almost limitless amount of storage for profiles, macros, etc in the cloud as opposed to being limited by physical memory.
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is).
We recognize that gamers will want to be able to use their gear without an online connection, and that's why Synapse 2.0 has an OFFLINE mode. Basically you have to register, create an account, save your initial settings and if you so prefer, you can stay in offline mode all the time without going online.
I realize that we have had issues with the activation server, and we're making sure we get that sorted out.
What i still don't get is why you need to register to fully unlock the extra functionality of the mice although you already paid more for that functionality. It's like you need to give your name and adress to adjust the brightness on your monitor
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Yeah I was kinda shocked about how crazy Razer has gone with their software when I downloaded the drivers and it wanted me to log in. I have owned a Death Adder for about 2 years now and never saw this until I formatted my PC (yay for outdated drivers!). Needless to say I just went and dug up the two year old drivers and used those. No need for yet another company to have my email. But I don't use that mouse anymore anyway.
This is why I love the Logitech G1. I plug it in, and I use it. No settings, no setup, no login, no drivers needed really (though I do have them on my Desktop. When I use my G1 with my Mac lappy I don't have to do anything. It just works). I wish companies would realize there is a space in the market for a super simple gaming mouse instead of just creating more and more complex mice with lights, a ton of settings, and a bunch of pointless features. Logitech needs to sell the G100 in North America.
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This won't dissuade me from buying razer products in the future . Their piece of shit mouse squeaking and then breaking down after only 2 months of use did that.
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jokes on razer, them knowing i have a fetish for dominatrix midget grandma porn prly makes them feel real weird and awkward
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It's actually pretty common. Like when you sign for some game's beta, often you should run a program that collects your PC specs and other data. Does that stops people from anything? No.
Although I agree, that's a terrible piece of software and terrible system overall, onboard memory is much better.
In fact, if believe to wikipedia, every new razer mouse have onboard memory, but apparently it's not usable to store settings/profiles, which makes no sense at all.
More than that, razer's software always was terrible. I couldn't use my Mamba and friend could't use his BW, before we delete razer drivers ( same problem on both - lights on, but it doesn't work untill you replug the usb).
So when it will be the time to buy a next mouse, I'll be sure to buy one, that allows me to store profiles/settings in the mouse itself, so I will be able to delete all those crappy drivers.
And big news, Razer's competitor, a.k.a. SteelSeries allows that, I already have Sensei and it has that option.
I had to install their software too ofc, but I uninstalled it after 30 mins after I created all profiles I may ever need ( doubt I'll need even half of those ), plus I can change some settings using small lcd screen on mouse itself.
Edit:
Also this
We wanted to avoid raising prices to gamers for higher memory space onboard (think about it like having to buy bigger and bigger hard drives as opposed to having all your storage on the cloud) and provide a much better service for our users.
is such a bs.
They could've at least kept 60kb that even Lachesis had, plus with current tech, prices for such a small ammount of flash memory is laughable. And since when Razer cares about prices too lol, can't their mices cheap in any way.
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Welp, thanks to this topic, it has convinced me to buy Steelseries and Logitech when I build a gaming PC. Thanks, Team Liquid. It's good to be made aware of when hardware is gathering information on you.
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On November 04 2012 07:15 Wikt wrote:
Thank you so much HawaiianPig for bringing some sense to this thread.
The levels of paranoia and indignant rage over nothing are ridiculous.
I'm still getting a Razer BlackWidow - ordered it yesterday, haven't changed my mind after seeing this thread.
Synapse software is only used for the Macros on the Blackwidow, and firmware updating. Not installing, or not being able to access the cloud will not affect the main functionality of the keyboard - and for an SC2 player, macros not only are kinda useless, but in tournament play are illigal.
For someone who buys the Naga for its mouse macros, like a WoW, LoL, or Dota2 player, the sole reason for buying the mouse is for its higher function. that function is limited if synapse is not available or used.
The fact that Razer can force consumers to use their software, and in turn collect information is one part of the problem. Limiting and restricting functionality is a horrible way to strong arm this tactic.
Now, you might not care, but imagine if your space bar didnt work on your nice new Blackwidow, unless you register for and run their software, and it must have connectivity.
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I hate this "cloud" craze, it adds nothing to most products and is only around due to clueless marketing people.
Hell, you could but a large amount of storage in a mouse for close to nothing.
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On November 04 2012 06:09 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:49 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx " Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where. You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works. Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties: Show nested quote +In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is: (i) Provided voluntarily, and (ii) Used for public functions This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it. Show nested quote +"Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy." This one is even more reasonable. Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS. Show nested quote +Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so. Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies.
The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard.
The level of information needed to get a mouse working is absurd. Most companies you plug and play, very standard.
The point is, I dislike volunteering information of any kind that can be used by marketing companies. Sure, in the very simple examples you provided, it's all rainbows and lemonade. But in reality, these corporations are fiending for any information they can get their hands on, and it annoys the hell out of me that someone down the line may be able to make even a cent off of me having to fill out yet another form. (To use a mouse no less....)
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Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
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On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox.
And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1.
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I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this.
On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
I absolutely hate it. As the guy before me said, what about no advertisement? Also, i remember the days when i could browse the web and actually discover new stuff. You know, when websites in general didn't use every piece of information, even if it's just the browser id, to make their offer fit you (youtube/google). It has advantages, but it also has a lot of downsides.
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On November 04 2012 13:22 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox. And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1.
^ this.
Also Razer should be very naive expecting people to register accounts for that synapse crap with their main e-mail. Creating fresh ones takes about 30 secs, so they can spam their ads there and no one will read them ever.
What I really don't like about all that synapse 2.0, it's actually a downgrade compared to synapse 1.0.
Onboard memory: install driver, change all settings you want, create profiles and save them inside of the mouse, delete driver.
Pros: mouse/kb can be moved to ANY PC without internet and without installing anything on to them, no need for drivers if you don't need to change a lot of settings/profiles.
Cons: none. Ok, if believe to Razer a bit higher price for the product. Like I already said, since when Razer cares about prices?
Cloud storage: install driver, change settings, create profiles and keep driver.
Pros: compared to onboard memory.. none? Maybe price, but I doubt about that.
Cons: every time you will want to use your mouse on another PC/MAC, you will need to install synapse there and that PC/MAC should have internet connection.
If synapse will be working bad ( conflicts with hardware/software ) you will probably delete synapse and that means your mouse will have default settings ( including dpi and everything else).
And many of you already know, how "awesome" Razer's software is.
Even that would've been enough for some people to say "no" to Razer products and now that "spying" thing. Hopefully ammount of people who will refuse to buy Razer products on such conditions will be significant enough, so they will abandon synapse 2 with next generation of mices/kbs.
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On November 04 2012 13:41 r00ty wrote:
I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this.
Using an Antivirus/Browser/Most Softwares/Online Services, in general has your information collected.
Get out of your tin foil hats and look around you, this is the 21st century, this is how the world works now.
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On November 04 2012 13:45 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:41 r00ty wrote:
I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this. Using an Antivirus/Browser/Most Softwares/Online Services, in general has your information collected. Get out of your tin foil hats and look around you, this is the 21st century, this is how the world works now.
O rly? I can still dislike, try to avoid and not support it, can't I?
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Some mod actually put some threadtext just so he can have a heard word.
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This thread is hilarious. Blizzard collects info, origin collects info, steam collects info. There, 99% of people on this forum have now had information collected. Yet they're crying because razor does it. I'm not a razor fanboi but it's funny to see these "AHHHHHH THEY'RE SPYING ON US!!" threads. Get over it. It's been done for years and years and years. Why do you think all ads on facebook are relatively alike?
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It is amazing how many people don't really read anything but the thread title and maybe half the OP. Most people think the main point is that the inconvenience makes the mice inferior, and that the "storage space limitation" explanation is complete bullshit. The collecting of data is just another annoying thing here. If i pay 60€ for a mice, in my opinion i don't have to also give them any information about me whatsoever. It was never needed before, and there appears to be no advantage to me that is added by this new account (making accounts for everything is pretty annoying as is), thus for me as a consumer i don't see the point in it. But since i already had negative experiences with razor mice, i probably wouldn't have bought it anyways, so i am probably not a person they worry about. Maybe somewhere out there are the gamers with half a million different profiles which could not fit onto memory you could add to the mouse for a dollar which totally profit from this.
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Would love to see OP's like these get sued for slander.
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I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away.
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I don't get it. I see a lot of people blowing smoke but there's no fire. Another fishing thread I was caught by thanks to a sensational title.
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On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away.
Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them.
To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do.
Issue is 2 fold.
1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent.
2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1.
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
Ridiculous. The mod note is only there as a clarification of what exactly the ToS rules in question mean. It is fully relevant and not an abuse. It's aimed at dispelling misconception and misinformation and is not an opinion.
It also contains the ToS excerpt itself.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
Team Liquid is sponsored by Razer. I'm surprised that this thread is still open.
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On November 05 2012 06:02 Maxd11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Team Liquid is sponsored by Razer. I'm surprised that this thread is still open.
I know, I noted that earlier, but I have to beleive that common sense and the desire to have a proper forum will prevail over bias and censorship.
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Jesus fuck this site lives for drama. Reminds me of high school cheerleaders.
-edit: A lot of companies do this, and its not spying...
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On November 05 2012 04:23 Wikt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Ridiculous. The mod note is only there as a clarification of what exactly the ToS rules in question mean. It is fully relevant and not an abuse. It's aimed at dispelling misconception and misinformation and is not an opinion. It also contains the ToS excerpt itself.
What I think is really unprofessional is his bracketed (not really) in the title. That just goes from providing relevant info to interjecting your own opinion. You can do that with a post, not by changing the title.
Either lock the thread if you think content inappropriate but inputting your opinion into the subject line seems poor form. However, TL is stricter then other forums so maybe its within their purview. Who knows.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
So your telling me that I'm wrong? I don't have anything to hide. You can't really hide anything in the US anyway so i'm not really sure what you're getting at.
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implying the macros and shit for the mouse take more than an 1mb.
hell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent.
2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1.
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
Actually, the thread title was massively misleading. You will notice that neither of your points (which btw are the same one single point) even mention the spying anymore. That is because there is none. A root kit is spying, this is an, in the product description mentioned, online service with broad boilerplate legalese. Nothing else has actually been shown.
Whether it's a smart idea to make you register this product online is a different topic, but that's all there is. As pointed out the terms are exactly the same as for almost any other digital product that requires registration. The hostage analogy is retarded, unless you think hostages go up to their captors and hand them the gun. I'm not ruling out you're capable of that, but that's hardly Razer's fault.
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On November 05 2012 07:51 bailando wrote:
implying the macros and shit for the mouse take more than an 1mb.
hell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$
Dont use razor (logitech i like) but this would definatly put me off from buying.
Guess it all fits in the trend of cloud computing wich i feel is forced upon us.
I would not find this in anny way suspect if it was not for the reason they are giving for doing this.
The reason they mention seem to be complete bs, as adding the memmory on the mouse would cost vitrually nothing.(whats 2$ on a 60$ mouse annyway)
Because they use such a unlikely reason as their motivation and to convince us i dont realy trust it at all.
@below:
Making an account and having to go online to use all the functions of your mouse is just extremely annoying and unneccesary, i dont understand that people dont see this tbh.
It realy is the inconvenience for me wich breaks it btw, and not that i dont trust razor or am afraid they will misuse the data they got from me.(if i would be woried about that i should stay off the internet all together)
i do find the reason they give weird btw, but it does not realy make me mistrust them i have to admit, contrary to what i said before.
Annyway:i dont care as there are still manufactorers who make mouse without having to go online, but i do fear this trend a bit.
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On November 05 2012 08:26 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 07:51 bailando wrote:
implying the macros and shit for the mouse take more than an 1mb.
hell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$ Dont use razor (logitech i like) but this would definatly put me off from buying. Guess it all fits in the trend of cloud computing wich i feel is forced upon us. I would not find this in anny way suspect if it was not for the reason they are giving for doing this. The reason they mention seem to be complete bs, as adding the memmory on the mouse would cost vitrually nothing.(whats 2$ on a 60$ mouse annyway) Because they use such a unlikely reason as their motivation and to convince us i dont trust it at all.
Okay seriously... think a little bit.
Lets say it will cost an extra $1-$2 dollars, why spend that extra money when you can get around that just by getting them to make an account. Nothing will happen if they get some personal information because they don't disclose it to pretty much anyone.
So who cares, lets be happy.
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On November 05 2012 06:34 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 04:23 Wikt wrote:On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Ridiculous. The mod note is only there as a clarification of what exactly the ToS rules in question mean. It is fully relevant and not an abuse. It's aimed at dispelling misconception and misinformation and is not an opinion. It also contains the ToS excerpt itself. What I think is really unprofessional is his bracketed (not really) in the title. That just goes from providing relevant info to interjecting your own opinion. You can do that with a post, not by changing the title. Either lock the thread if you think content inappropriate but inputting your opinion into the subject line seems poor form. However, TL is stricter then other forums so maybe its within their purview. Who knows.
I don't think its opinion, its objective fact. If the Terms of Service directly show (with the aid of bolding) how the OP is misleading others, then it is no different from appending an informative mod note to the original statement.
I guess it might be seen as arrogant to think that a person could think he's 100% right...but honestly I think this is one of those few cases where its clear to everyone who reads the Terms of Service that this is very wonky conspiracy thinking. The mods are doing a service to the community by highlighting these errors, particularly when its about a company that sponsors Team Liquid. They kind of have a responsibility to set the record straight, more than usual.
Its probably also why no one is really talking about spying anymore, but about being forced to use the internet to get their mouse fully operational, or how they're unhappy that Razer along with every other company in existence is getting non-specific advertising data. I don't think anyone is actually defending the OP's original point anymore.
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People complaining about the Mod edits, to be fair if I was a mod i would have just shut this thread down as soon as i read it, Razer is not spying, their TOU is just like any other software/hardware company, the only reason they left it open is, I assume, because there is a legit gripe about having to register online to use a piece of hardware, while this is done often with software to prevent piracy I don't really see the point in it for hardware as it can't be pirated, unless its just stolen, still with the thread title accusing a company of spying because they collect info on people who use their product I would have shut it down, so you should be thanking the mods for leaving this stupid thread up at all.
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Stopped considering Razer products after they refused me warranty support/repair on a headset that died after 6 months of use. Glad to know I made the right decision. <3 my SteelSeries!
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Vatican City State334 Posts
Mod edit is a bit cheeky. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties is bolded, but the part after saying: except as described in the policy below isn't. It says Razer outsources collection of the data to a third party with its own privacy policy, a policy which could be cool with all sorts of things.
That said I wouldn't care about data collection when buying a Razer mouse. The irony is this is a forum where loads of people will be using Steam and Blizzard products which probably collect a lot more data than a little mouse will. Now go put your phone number, email address or name in a people search engine like Intelius or Pipl and see how much data you've already given away. It's part of any software agreement these days.
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On November 08 2012 04:12 AnalThermometer wrote:
Mod edit is a bit cheeky. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties is bolded, but the part after saying: except as described in the policy below isn't. It says Razer outsources collection of the data to a third party with its own privacy policy, a policy which could be cool with all sorts of things.
That said I wouldn't care about data collection when buying a Razer mouse. The irony is this is a forum where loads of people will be using Steam and Blizzard products which probably collect a lot more data than a little mouse will. Now go put your phone number, email address or name in a people search engine like Intelius or Pipl and see how much data you've already given away. It's part of any software agreement these days.
Razer is one of TL's main sponsors, what did you expect?
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Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
The bolded part is what worries me. I don't understand why Teamliquid Mods didn't bold what I just bolded.Razor could go under, then sell all your personal information to anyone it chooses for money. I understand that you sign these agreements when using software or websites online. For hardware, why are you forced to register for functionality that you paid for?
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Gratz Razer, you made it onto my "stuff i will never buy" list.
Have fun with Apple.
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On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote:
Razer is not spying, their TOU is just like any other software/hardware company
So because everyone does it that makes it good? Nowadays everyone tries to harvest as much personal info as possible because it's so valuable. Any other TOU/TOS is leaving the backdoor open with some "except", usually also backed by "when needed by law" so it doesn't look as bad and evidently it works on people as seen in this thread. Well at least they tell you in this case if you happen to read it all, web trackers are on almost every site and doesn't ask you at all.
Call be old and conservative but I still value my privacy, maybe it's not cool anymore. I want to buy hardware peripherals and use all of it's functions without requiring any registration at all. Why would you do it?
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I don't like Synapse to begin with. Its ridiculous that I can't use my mouse's settings offline or without being "logged" in after dropping $50+ on it. I own a host of Razor products, but I'll be looking elsewhere for peripherals after this.
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I didn't know anybody actually bought Razer products. I made the mistake of buying their stuff twice...never again. As much as I appreciate all the money they pour into esports, their terrible quality control and questionable build quality is just too much. Both of my purchases have failed, and among the friends I know who've purchased Razer products, more have had their products fail than not as well.
These were all stuff from their headsets to their mice to their gamepads. I don't know about their keyboards, but I've heard of build quality issues with them as well -_-
I'd really like to keep supporting Razer, but never again after getting ripped off twice.
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This is a pretty bad thread if it's about what I think it is after reading it.
I absolutely love that you simply need to register your mouse once (you dont even need an internet connection, you could do it at a fucking local library if you wanted to) and then you are able to customize all the settings you want and they are saved to the mouse and cloud allowing you to have access anywhere to your settings.
As far as I know almost all good gaming mice do this, the case is the same with my kone+
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On November 05 2012 08:34 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Okay seriously... think a little bit.
Lets say it will cost an extra $1-$2 dollars, why spend that extra money when you can get around that just by getting them to make an account.
I know the cloud is hyped everywhere, but please tell me, where does this magic cloud run, who maintains it, who pays for the servers/electricity/maintenance?
As to why, easy - because you don't want to be an annoyance to your own customers. Will I need an account for my monitor, keyboard, mouse, motherboard?
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I don't care much about TL's unprofessionalism in this matter, it's not their call to make, Razer are their sponsors and that's that. All I know is I won't be buying Razer mice anymore after my 2012 Mamba dies out, simply because of the sheer idea and their motivation behind Synapse 2 functionality goes against things that I value as a customer.
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This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching.
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On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching.
Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops.
edit: wrong account. meh fuck it.
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How can they say razer is for gamers, by gamers? What gamer in their right mind said that they would rather have their mouse settings saved on the cloud than on their hardware? It's just extra hassle and extra uncertainty.
Switching my deathadder from its previous drivers to synapse was a downgrade. I'm done with razer. I've owned a razer headset, which broke after a few months. I've owned a deathadder, which still works but has always had buggy mousewheel. Now I would have to deal with razer synapse for my mouse.
I switched from a razer deathadder to a logitech g9x, which has onboard memory, adjustable weight, removable case, adjustable mousewheel, and on hardware dpi switching. These features, not pretty LEDs should, be standard on gaming mice.
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On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it.
Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers?
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Razer is just one bad product idea after another. I don't know how they are still in business. Who in their right mind wants cloud storage for their mouse settings
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On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers?
Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software.
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On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software.
It does have full features out of the box. The thing you get by connecting to the internet at any point is to get the ability to switch out different profiles from the "cloud".
the fact that you advocate that people don't read the op completely invalidates your point.
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On November 08 2012 12:39 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software. It does have full features out of the box. The thing you get by connecting to the internet at any point is to get the ability to switch out different profiles from the "cloud". the fact that you advocate that people don't read the op completely invalidates your point.
So the first 2 sentences in the op are This really took me by surprise. Just bought a new Naga 2012 mouse, installed the software and get greeted by a login screen right after. No option to bypass it to use the software to configure the mouse, set the options, sensitivity, shortcuts, macros etc. No internet = no sensitivity, shortcuts, macros, etc. Thats full features?
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On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software.
Wow, someone's a little arrogant! If you had bothered to read my post, you'd see that I was talking about pre-Synapse drivers still working and being available (as of a few months ago), when I had problems with my Synapse install. If that is still the case, you can completely opt out of using Synapse drivers and continue to use the older drivers and get full features out of the box and offline, outside of the increased number of profiles included in Synapse. Where in the OP is that question answered? Maybe instead of being a rude prick, you might want to check yourself and see if you are comprehending what's being communicated to you.
So, I'll ask again, has it changed in the past few months so that the old pre-Synapse drivers aren't available on the Razer website, like they were when I downgraded? Their website is a cluster fuck and it took some digging to find them when I downgraded. I'm assuming they are, since there were people posting DeathAdder pre-Synapse drivers on reddit.
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On November 08 2012 13:09 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software. Wow, someone's a little arrogant! If you had bothered to read my post, you'd see that I was talking about pre-Synapse drivers still working and being available (as of a few months ago), when I had problems with my Synapse install. If that is still the case, you can completely opt out of using Synapse drivers and continue to use the older drivers and get full features out of the box and offline, outside of the increased number of profiles included in Synapse. Where in the OP is that question answered? Maybe instead of being a rude prick, you might want to check yourself and see if you are comprehending what's being communicated to you. So, I'll ask again, has it changed in the past few months so that the old pre-Synapse drivers aren't available on the Razer website, like they were when I downgraded? Their website is a cluster fuck and it took some digging to find them when I downgraded. I'm assuming they are, since there were people posting DeathAdder pre-Synapse drivers on reddit.
That works for older products, but what about the new ones?
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On November 08 2012 13:11 forestry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 13:09 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software. Wow, someone's a little arrogant! If you had bothered to read my post, you'd see that I was talking about pre-Synapse drivers still working and being available (as of a few months ago), when I had problems with my Synapse install. If that is still the case, you can completely opt out of using Synapse drivers and continue to use the older drivers and get full features out of the box and offline, outside of the increased number of profiles included in Synapse. Where in the OP is that question answered? Maybe instead of being a rude prick, you might want to check yourself and see if you are comprehending what's being communicated to you. So, I'll ask again, has it changed in the past few months so that the old pre-Synapse drivers aren't available on the Razer website, like they were when I downgraded? Their website is a cluster fuck and it took some digging to find them when I downgraded. I'm assuming they are, since there were people posting DeathAdder pre-Synapse drivers on reddit. That works for older products, but what about the new ones?
Then, I go back to my original point that it isn't that big of a damn deal!
When have you ever been in a situation where you need exact mouse settings AND don't have an internet connection? I can honestly say never and I doubt anyone else can say they have, either.
Honestly, I find it really hard to believe that there are that many people who would be in a position where it is a problem at all. Is it an annoyance? Yes, especially when setting it up in the beginning! Should they change it to allow Offline mode before activation? Absolutely! But I can honestly say that it isn't even on my radar, when it comes to selecting a product to buy and I think that people who are making a big deal out of it are majorly overestimating the impact it actually has on your use of the product.
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Which was a point made in this thread before already, and so far noone has had an explanation other then "That excuse is bullshit"
I assume a point could be made that this cloud storage is superior to on-mouse memory when you play with a different mouse of the same type, but to how many people does this situation apply?
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1. I bought a Naga (it sucks ass)
2. Razer's own firmware bricked it
3. They wouldn't email me new firmware and insisted I send it in
4. I send it in, they send it back STILL BRICKED
5. They finally go, oh, heres better firmware and email me the file
6. fix mouse
7. throw mouse in box of pc extras
8. buy a steelseries sensei, HAPPY END
tl;dr
Who wants to buy a naga for 20$?
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The answer from the CEO is total bs. First off all "mouse profiles" do not take up a lot of space and can easily be fit in a mouse for next to nothing cost. The fact that I need to make an account to fix my MOUSE SETTINGS is just mindblowing. It is easy to see what their motives are. And that is to collect information via their cloud service. Its a good way to make money so I see why their CEO went with it.
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On November 08 2012 13:33 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 13:11 forestry wrote:On November 08 2012 13:09 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 12:36 gawk wrote:On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers? Why bother reading the op? Its not possible to use full features out of the box unless you register an account to use with the synapse software. Wow, someone's a little arrogant! If you had bothered to read my post, you'd see that I was talking about pre-Synapse drivers still working and being available (as of a few months ago), when I had problems with my Synapse install. If that is still the case, you can completely opt out of using Synapse drivers and continue to use the older drivers and get full features out of the box and offline, outside of the increased number of profiles included in Synapse. Where in the OP is that question answered? Maybe instead of being a rude prick, you might want to check yourself and see if you are comprehending what's being communicated to you. So, I'll ask again, has it changed in the past few months so that the old pre-Synapse drivers aren't available on the Razer website, like they were when I downgraded? Their website is a cluster fuck and it took some digging to find them when I downgraded. I'm assuming they are, since there were people posting DeathAdder pre-Synapse drivers on reddit. That works for older products, but what about the new ones? Then, I go back to my original point that it isn't that big of a damn deal! When have you ever been in a situation where you need exact mouse settings AND don't have an internet connection? I can honestly say never and I doubt anyone else can say they have, either. Honestly, I find it really hard to believe that there are that many people who would be in a position where it is a problem at all. Is it an annoyance? Yes, especially when setting it up in the beginning! Should they change it to allow Offline mode before activation? Absolutely! But I can honestly say that it isn't even on my radar, when it comes to selecting a product to buy and I think that people who are making a big deal out of it are majorly overestimating the impact it actually has on your use of the product.
Yeah right. I buy a piece of fucking hardware, a MOUSE, and off course, I need to register a account online, I allow them to collect intel on me without any control whatsoever about that, and until I do so, I just CAN'T use the full features of my mouse. Yes, you are right, that is not a big deal at all.
Steelseries and Logitech must be smiling right now. Seriously Razer, cut the crap (especially about the "oh noes we need Gigas to store your profile in the memory of the mouse", the Copperhead had enough memory allready....) and don't ploy to the social 2.0 bullshit that no one with half a brain wants.
I understand Razer is the sponsor of TL, hence the mods must be on edge about this matter, but clearly, not being able to use a mouse because the auth server are down, requiring having online connection, gathering data on you.... that's ridiculous beyond measure. If Razer doesn't respect me as a customer anymore, I will vote with my wallet, making sure around me people are aware of that.
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Does this really net a thread??? I mean no disrespect every company in this age and day do this.
It's 2012 guys and the internet, every software company, including blizzard does this for market info.
Blizzard does it with "warden" that suppose to detect 3rd party software, and it does the same thing razor is doing to access info.......every game u dl these days, ect, anything you think of does this.
Apple does this, Microsoft ect ect......I have to agree with people who fail to read the TOS every time it updates.
I think South Park made a funny show about Apple's Constant TOS updates and how people never read the tos and was pretty funny.
As a Computer SCI major, only info the companies get are marketing info to improve their products and net more profit.
Silly people rage over things like this, when in fact you guys prob installed other products who do the same thing, but you don't read the TOS and had no clue (= silly internet people.
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On November 08 2012 18:07 Melaine wrote:
Does this really net a thread??? I mean no disrespect every company in this age and day do this.
It's 2012 guys and the internet, every software company, including blizzard does this for market info.
Blizzard does it with "warden" that suppose to detect 3rd party software, and it does the same thing razor is doing to access info.......every game u dl these days, ect, anything you think of does this.
Apple does this, Microsoft ect ect......I have to agree with people who fail to read the TOS every time it updates.
I think South Park made a funny show about Apple's Constant TOS updates and how people never read the tos and was pretty funny.
As a Computer SCI major, only info the companies get are marketing info to improve their products and net more profit.
Silly people rage over things like this, when in fact you guys prob installed other products who do the same thing, but you don't read the TOS and had no clue (= silly internet people.
Well gamers usually care a lot more about this stuff than your average 15 year old who got a new iphone with his daddy's money.
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On November 08 2012 18:07 Melaine wrote:
Does this really net a thread??? I mean no disrespect every company in this age and day do this.
It's 2012 guys and the internet, every software company, including blizzard does this for market info.
Blizzard does it with "warden" that suppose to detect 3rd party software, and it does the same thing razor is doing to access info.......every game u dl these days, ect, anything you think of does this.
Apple does this, Microsoft ect ect......I have to agree with people who fail to read the TOS every time it updates.
I think South Park made a funny show about Apple's Constant TOS updates and how people never read the tos and was pretty funny.
As a Computer SCI major, only info the companies get are marketing info to improve their products and net more profit.
Silly people rage over things like this, when in fact you guys prob installed other products who do the same thing, but you don't read the TOS and had no clue (= silly internet people.
I'm glad you popped your face in here to feel smug and superior to all those "silly internet people" whilst throwing around a bunch of nonesense with no source whatsoever. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, don't say anything.
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On November 08 2012 18:07 Melaine wrote:
Does this really net a thread??? I mean no disrespect every company in this age and day do this.
It's 2012 guys and the internet, every software company, including blizzard does this for market info.
Blizzard does it with "warden" that suppose to detect 3rd party software, and it does the same thing razor is doing to access info.......every game u dl these days, ect, anything you think of does this.
Apple does this, Microsoft ect ect......I have to agree with people who fail to read the TOS every time it updates.
I think South Park made a funny show about Apple's Constant TOS updates and how people never read the tos and was pretty funny.
As a Computer SCI major, only info the companies get are marketing info to improve their products and net more profit.
Silly people rage over things like this, when in fact you guys prob installed other products who do the same thing, but you don't read the TOS and had no clue (= silly internet people.
Please, come back when you will have found the switch for your brain and turned it on. I don't give a flying fuck wether SOFTWARE companies abuse the hell out of us, I am talking about HARDWARE companies. If tomorrow you buy a new fridge, you will find perfectly normal to have to create an account online in order to set the temperature on it ? I don't think so.
The whole "oh yeah, whatever, I am already getting raped by other companies, I might as well spread my legs for Razer" is utterly childish.
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On November 08 2012 11:01 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:21 TheGDStudio wrote:On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion).
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable.
As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle.
It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset?
I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. Um, it does work out of the box with full features, unless something has changed recently. I only tried Synapse in the first place when I was re-installing my Razer drivers after a re-format. I had a bug in the software that caused random key repeats, so I rolled back to pre-Synapse drivers no problem (the bug has since been fixed). Maybe that's where the disconnect for me is and why I don't think it's a big deal. Did something change to not allow for use of the legacy drivers?
The new mice in fact do not work right out of the box. I don't want to sign up online for every piece of hardware I buy. What's next? Sign up online to use your monitor? Or your USB drive? Or your headphones? Enough is enough, someone has to make a stand.
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Buyer beware - research a product properly before you put your money down unless you are fine with the possibility of spending money on something you may only use once
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I like the excuse that Synapse is needed in order to save money on MEMORY!
MEMORY!!!
That's like the cheapest thing you could possibly buy when it comes to computer hardware, and Razer mice used to use something like 4mb onboard. How much room do they need now that it costs gamers MORE AND MORE MONEY?
A 4gb usb stick is literally $5 and that's the end-of-the-line price, not the OEM price I'm sure. I'm quite confident that they don't need more than 1gb to store whateverthefk they want in a mouse, and that would not increase costs significantly.
Such a joke.
LE:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dIGdy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FEnEC.jpg)
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Yeah I have to say this would be totally deal-breaking for me. I'm currently happy with my Logitech G500, but if I was looking for a mouse there is no way I would get one that required the internet to configure... First, I work in internetless environments fairly often, and second, this just creeps me the heck out. Seriously, they couldn't just go with the opt-out registration / auto-update / rebate customer tracking every other company already has, and had to take it a step farther? Really? Why!?
EDIT: Also this needs huge big warnings on the box that features require an account, etc. I don't know if they have that, but they should...
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On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote:
you should be thanking the mods for leaving this stupid thread up at all.
And how exactly might this thread be "stupid" ? Have fun registering your breakfast in a couple of years :p
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I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_-
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On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_-
Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely.
You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ?
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The reddit thread has an important post pasted from CEO Min-Liang Tang's facebook. I paste it here in its entirety:
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/12sq9l/when_a_mouse_requires_an_internet_connection/
[–]Flexxus 11 points 12 hours ago
15 minutes ago, Min-Liang Tan (CEO of Razer) posted this clarification on his facebook:
"I wanted to provide some further clarification on Synapse 2.0:
SYNAPSE 1.0 vs SYNAPSE 2.0
Razer was the first to recognize the need for gamers to save their mouse configurations and settings onboard their peripherals. To that end, we created Synapse 1.0, which utilized onboard memory to store settings inside Razer products. This ability has now become one of the de facto features used in gaming mice worldwide.
Over time, we realized that as firmware, profiles, macros and other settings stored in onboard memory became more complex, more memory space was required. On top of that, other features that we wanted to include, such as inter-device drivers and profile exchanging, were not possible with the Synapse 1.0 architecture.
To give gamers the same benefits provided in Synapse 1.0 and more, we invented Synapse 2.0. Instead of having mouse settings limited by the space in onboard memory, Synapse 2.0 allows gamers to now have almost unlimited space for their profiles and macros. Moreover, other new functionalities such as being able to interact with other peripherals on the same architecture (i.e. keymaps between mice and keyboards) are now possible. Now gamers are also able to easily import and export profiles with their friends.
Another benefit to Synapse 2.0 is that if you purchase an additional Synapse 2.0 mouse for another system, it will not have to set it up all over again; it will be instantaneously customized to one’s stored settings. Such features would not be possible with Synapse 1.0.
We also believe in continuing to support our earlier products with software updates. We believe in providing additional value to our customers as opposed to only providing such features for our new hardware. For example, the Razer Naga MMO gaming mouse created with the Synapse 1.0 architecture was recently updated through Synapse 2.0 to include keymapping, unlimited profiles, and import/export functions. These updates would have taxed memory beyond the original capacity of the mouse using just Synapse 1.0. With Synapse 2.0, every Naga user can have his or her mouse upgraded directly from the cloud without having to go out and purchase another mouse or recreate macros and user-created content.
Synapse 2.0 offers these types of benefit and we’re happy to add features to our products for dedicated gamers looking for continued value after purchase.
However, we recognize that there may be some users of legacy Razer products who prefer to use Synapse 1.0 drivers. While we will still be making these available (see below), we do not want to penalize the vast majority of gamers who want to see our new products and legacy products upgraded to the Synapse 2.0 platform.
Synapse 2.0 vs. DRM
Our products work perfectly out of the box. Unlike DRM games or other media that require an always-on connection, you can use any of our peripherals right out of the box, even if someone doesn’t install Synapse 2.0, and whether a user is offline or online.
Synapse 2.0 provides for additional functionality in the form of cloud storage for settings, inter-device communications, etc. Once registered, Synapse 2.0 provides additional functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud. It does the same with mapping physical functions, affording myriad options for an array of applications. The amount of information required to register the product is minimal. Again, we make a range of products that, to some degree or another, benefit from cloud-based functionality, but it is not a requirement for our products to work. There are great gamers out there that don’t regularly use Synapse 2.0, which speaks to the inherent quality of our products.
Synapse 2.0 works OFFLINE
One of the biggest misunderstandings is the equation of Synapse 2.0 to always-on DRM. It’s a popular notion that anything requiring a login has DRM included in it, and this misconception is one that easily gets the community fired up. In this case however, it’s incorrect.
Once registered, Synapse 2.0 works offline and never needs to be online again. So basically, a user creates an account, saves initial settings, and if there’s no internet connection, it doesn’t matter - settings are saved on the client PC and are not synced to the cloud. Synapse 2.0 works offline.
We understand that this still might be confusing. We will continue to take steps to clarify and to ensure that our users have the correct information (see below).
Server Outages
Finally, as far as the Synapse 2.0 activation server goes, we realize that we have had intermittent issues with it due to server usage spikes and, most recently, because of Hurricane Sandy – not uncommon challenges with server-based functions, especially given the severity of the storm – and we’re working on increasing server reliability.
We had an issue for four hours recently when users were unable to register for new Synapse 2.0 accounts. Current users of Synapse 2.0 were unaffected. We are working on new ways to keep these types of issues from occurring.
Steps to clarify the situation
Legacy or Synapse 1.0 drivers (for applicable legacy products) will be made available shortly on the Razer Support Site. We will continue to develop applicable Synapse 2.0 drivers for our other legacy products, as the vast majority of users of our products have been asking for Synapse 2.0 features. Again, if those products are already Synapse 1.0 supported, we will make both Synapse 1.0 and Synapse 2.0 drivers available to them.
All future Razer products will support Synapse 2.0 and other future platforms.
Manual Offline mode will be made available shortly. At this time, Synapse 2.0 works seamlessly between online and offline mode, and is unobtrusive to the user. If an internet connection goes down and if the user has enabled offline mode by checking the “stay logged in” box, Synapse 2.0 automatically goes into offline mode.
Through listening to our community we have added many new features to Synapse, and we have been working on putting in place a more robust manual offline mode for Synapse 2.0, letting users choose to go into offline mode with a click of a button. This functionality will be rolled into an upcoming update.
We value the feedback from the community and we hope the above statement helps to clarify any issues."
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Sales must be dropping...
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As a proud owner of multiple Razer products, I can say with confidence that I don't give a fuck.
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The issue here isn't even about spying on customers or privacy issues. In my opinion, the issue here is that this is a completely worthless addition to a set of products that are already bloated. I mean seriously, online activation required for a mouse? It's yet another unwanted feature, and its true purpose has nothing to do with what the customer wants, it's 100% a marketing tool to convince people Razer have some feature that other peripheral companies don't.
The sad thing is it will completely work on a large part of the gaming community.
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On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ?
Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology.
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On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology.
The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p).
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Ok. I am pretty sure that you can get a server with a terabyte of discspace for less than 1000€. Assuming that each user needs 1mb of storage space (how large can mouse profile data be, really?), and you need 1 GB for server software, you can thus serve 999000 mice with that one server for 1000€. Of course, now you have to take into consideration monthly costs, but lets assume that the memory on each mouse would have cost 1€, you could pay monthly costs of 100€ for 9980months with the money you save from flash memory. Thus, my completely made up figures prove that the server solution is cheaper until the year 2427.
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On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p).
Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative.
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On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative.
It's not a great alternative, it's a terrible alternative. How much storage do you really think they need to store this stuff? It's ultimately going to be stored in an XML text file or equivalent no bigger than 5kb-15kb as a liberal estimate. You will *never* hear Razer say that, though.
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On November 09 2012 09:09 stafu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote:On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative. How much storage do you really think they need to store this stuff?
Pretty much, this.
If that Razer CEO or whatever simply said "this method makes things cheaper for us" to begin with.
But they didn't :/. Most people don't like being bullshitted :p.
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Most people also don't like it when the company they pay 80$ for a mouse to is too cheap to put 50c worth of memory onto their device.
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On November 08 2012 21:06 forestry wrote:
Sales must be dropping...
Could be one of the reasons too. Can't say for anyone else, but I'm not buying Taipan just because I don't want to deal with that synapse crap after I've got used to built-in memory.
Like someone already said, after all those years with built-n memory.. suddenly Razer decided to make a downgrade on their hardware.
Also "rising prices" is so far from the truth. Prices for pretty much all types of memory dropped SO much for the last 5 years, especially flash memory. Also there's Razer competitors, who sell about same quality devices for about same prices, which has built-in memory.
Someone also were talking about alternatives... This is not an alternative, this is mandatory. Either you get expensive "generic" mouse or you have to use synapse 2.0.
Alternative would be: leave built-in memory, at least for 1 profile like nearly every entry level gaming mice have ( see Sensei Raw which has 1 profile compared to "full" version's 5 profiles, but it's cheaper ) AND add the cloud storage system.
So everyone can choose what's good for him/her, driverless experience with 1(or 1-5) profles or synapse with limitless profiles and cloud sync.
And one more thing. How progamers will be able to use their settings on tournaments or how normal players who are playing from internet cafes will have to deal with it?
Does that mean that every PC at, let's say WCS, will have synapse installed? Doubt about that tbh, as well as I doubt they would let players to install random software on their PCs, because if every gamer with different hardware will install drivers there....
So that means gamers won't be able to play using their favorite settings.
P.S.
I do write all this because I like some of the Razer products, particularly their mice products. I have 4 myself ( if count old ones too. Diamondback 3g still working after all those years ) and bought some as a gifts to my friends.
So it's really sad to see they did such a terrible terrible decision with their new hardware.
And I hope that gamers/customers opinion and sales will show them that, it's not hard to add built-in memory to the next year's models.
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On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative.
I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate but please don't. Your arguments are ridiculous.
You can have a portable version of Windows XP on a 1gb flash stick with room to spare. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that mouse bindings and scripts take up more than that?
I checked the size of my G15 scripts/macros, and it's 2.5mb INCLUDING the Logitech macro files they have in there. Even the most hardcore script-oriented gamer will never go over something like 256mb with 5 separate macros for each of the 20+ buttons, and it would NOT run out of memory. Running a script 5 times doesn't require 5x more memory.
Now consider the price of 1gb flash memory. <$1
Now consider the price of the mouse. $80
Which study did they follow that said people will go "$80 is perfectly reasonable for the Razer Naga, but $81 is ABSURD! I would never pay that much!"
As someone said above, if they could do it 7 years ago, they could definitely do it now when memory costs are under 1/10th of what it was then.
The whole price excuse is an insult to everyone who knows the least bit about hardware.
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On November 08 2012 19:41 HeatEXTEND wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote:
you should be thanking the mods for leaving this stupid thread up at all. And how exactly might this thread be "stupid" ? Have fun registering your breakfast in a couple of years :p
To start with the original post was filled with misinformation. It's explained very clearly on the first few pages that the original claims of the threat aren't true. Most of the things were outright false and the rest were misleading. It's actually a little bit sad that days after the situation has been explained, and isn't that shocking or horrifying as original suspected or really shocking or horrifying at all, people are still acting shocked and horrified.
Edit: And now they're making available legacy drivers, although it looks like the forced activation thing was exaggerated as well.
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On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p).
Read this thread chain:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/12sqkr/razer_products_now_come_with_spyware_require/c6xx8ed
It's obviously not just as simple as getting usb flash memory and cramming it inside a mouse. If you don't have specific knowledge about the things you are talking about, do some research.
edit: It's ridiculous how many people there are in this thread claiming that they are to cheap to put in 50c/$1 of memory. So much misinformation.
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On November 09 2012 19:06 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote:On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote:On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote:On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote:On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote:
I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho.
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons..
It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative. I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate but please don't. Your arguments are ridiculous. You can have a portable version of Windows XP on a 1gb flash stick with room to spare. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that mouse bindings and scripts take up more than that? I checked the size of my G15 scripts/macros, and it's 2.5mb INCLUDING the Logitech macro files they have in there. Even the most hardcore script-oriented gamer will never go over something like 256mb with 5 separate macros for each of the 20+ buttons, and it would NOT run out of memory. Running a script 5 times doesn't require 5x more memory. Now consider the price of 1gb flash memory. <$1 Now consider the price of the mouse. $80 Which study did they follow that said people will go "$80 is perfectly reasonable for the Razer Naga, but $81 is ABSURD! I would never pay that much!" As someone said above, if they could do it 7 years ago, they could definitely do it now when memory costs are under 1/10th of what it was then. The whole price excuse is an insult to everyone who knows the least bit about hardware.
It's also a matter of engineering, the whole less is more buzzword. It's also one less part that could break. They probably didn't think it was much of an inconvenience (obviously we could argue about this a lot, but there's arguments to be made on both sides). Edit: The reddit link above explains this a lot better than I did.
More importantly though; Why do you think google is so intent on putting everything on the cloud? Yes, we've had word-processors on our harddrives for many many years, since the DOS days and that has worked fine and dandy all this time. But google changed that up completely with google docs. That OS that fits on a flash memory stick? They're releasing operating systems that run on the cloud as well. I'm sure you can just google "operating system on cloud" or something and find some sources. A lot of people believe practically everything will run on the cloud in 10 years and what you have at home will just be a console (not a console as in a game console, but in a traditional sense).
Though I'm fully with you on the "it's not what we're used to" and "they'd need near 100% uptime and this server downtime shouldn't hinder us" points, if we look at technology, this is a step forward.
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Well on windows 8 you're out of luck with old drivers. Time to change from razer products, been a customer for a long time -10+ years and have all of their lineup, including the Zerg Bag. I'm curious how long till they have an online requirement for the bag as well, haha .
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On November 09 2012 19:27 Kakaru2 wrote:Well on windows 8 you're out of luck with old drivers. Time to change from razer products, been a customer for a long time -10+ years and have all of their lineup, including the Zerg Bag. I'm curious how long till they have an online requirement for the bag as well, haha .
Hey, 1. I like that bag (except for the white in the zerg logo zzz) 2. It'd be awesome if it came with some kind of built in 3g/wifi <-> USB with online storage, you could pull your files out of your bag xD
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On November 09 2012 19:16 MVega wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 19:41 HeatEXTEND wrote:On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote:
you should be thanking the mods for leaving this stupid thread up at all. And how exactly might this thread be "stupid" ? Have fun registering your breakfast in a couple of years :p To start with the original post was filled with misinformation. It's explained very clearly on the first few pages that the original claims of the threat aren't true. Most of the things were outright false and the rest were misleading. It's actually a little bit sad that days after the situation has been explained, and isn't that shocking or horrifying as original suspected or really shocking or horrifying at all, people are still acting shocked and horrified. Edit: And now they're making available legacy drivers, although it looks like the forced activation thing was exaggerated as well.
It's amazing how many people develop / comment opinions on a subject without actually fact checking. It is ridiculous how outraged people get on topics that they actually only have a small understanding of, and not only that how certain and unbudgeable in their beliefs they are.
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i just bought this razer naga to see the extent of this so-called problem. i expect this $80 mouse to provide all the features without having to register an account (i do expect that i need to install their bloatware). if this mouse asks me to register or connect to the internet (ill leave my pc disconnected from the net), then it goes back to the store (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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On November 09 2012 19:16 MVega wrote:
And now they're making available legacy drivers, although it looks like the forced activation thing was exaggerated as well.
And how come they doing this you reckon ?
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On November 04 2012 13:22 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox. And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1.
You do realize its not about junkmail, For example Youtube uses such information to give targeted advertisements for example RTS games for those who subscribe to destiny.
Razor would use this for Data Mining and compiling consumer demographics and such.
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Wait, has anyone seen ads delivered from this software to begin with? Might be interesting to set up an email account specifically and only for the software and see what ACTUALLY pops up.
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When I saw the Synapse 2 driver for the first time (replaced my broken Deathadder at around the same time as a reformat) I simply LOL'd at the login screen and downloaded the archived drivers, but I knew they were there. As annoying as it was to have to uninstall Synapse 2 and install the perfectly fine archived drivers, it was totally worth it. Making a Razer account to use a mouse when the other drivers didn't require it seemed kind of pointless. Maybe I'd be able to find a use for Synapse 2 if I were required to travel around with my mouse, like, a progamer or something... but I'm not. Ahh well... I guess we're not all progamers... and some of us get all worked up about things we don't fully understand and start to become suspicious.
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I have a DeathAdder and an Abyssus and haven't had to update my drivers with anything relating to synapse. If this continues and I can use the older drivers without sharing this information with Razer then I will continue using their products. If one of my mice hit the bucket, I'll have to do more research to see if I continue using Razer mice (which I LOVE and have had 0 issues with thus far [the switch to an Abyssus was purely for a different mouse shape, not a defect with my DA]) or switch to a SS mouse (my fondness for my 6gv2 has me convinced to try a SS mouse sometime in the future). Both brands support eSports and my 2 favorite teams, TL and EG obviously haha, so hopefully the issues with Razer and information grabbing aren't as large as some people in this thread make it out to be.
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On November 30 2012 17:16 Geefking wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:22 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox. And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1. You do realize its not about junkmail, For example Youtube uses such information to give targeted advertisements for example RTS games for those who subscribe to destiny. Razor would use this for Data Mining and compiling consumer demographics and such.
Doesn't make it any better. It's a disgusting way of triggering your addiction. Kinda like waving a bag of Heroin in front of an addict, simply fucked up.
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A friend of mine has a deathadder. I hate using that thing, its as if those 3 snakeheads burn the skin of my hands. Like being marked by the devil or something and hes watching me and spamming my inbox. Maybe im just retarded... yeah I'm pretty retarded ;-)
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EPT
