EPThell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$
Razer (is not really) spying on customers - Page 10
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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler + “personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified. By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below. Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance. While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information. In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information. Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy. Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. | ||
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bailando
Germany332 Posts
hell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$ | ||
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote: 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Actually, the thread title was massively misleading. You will notice that neither of your points (which btw are the same one single point) even mention the spying anymore. That is because there is none. A root kit is spying, this is an, in the product description mentioned, online service with broad boilerplate legalese. Nothing else has actually been shown. Whether it's a smart idea to make you register this product online is a different topic, but that's all there is. As pointed out the terms are exactly the same as for almost any other digital product that requires registration. The hostage analogy is retarded, unless you think hostages go up to their captors and hand them the gun. I'm not ruling out you're capable of that, but that's hardly Razer's fault. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
On November 05 2012 07:51 bailando wrote: implying the macros and shit for the mouse take more than an 1mb. hell. let it be 1gb it wouldnt cost more than 2$ Dont use razor (logitech i like) but this would definatly put me off from buying. Guess it all fits in the trend of cloud computing wich i feel is forced upon us. I would not find this in anny way suspect if it was not for the reason they are giving for doing this. The reason they mention seem to be complete bs, as adding the memmory on the mouse would cost vitrually nothing.(whats 2$ on a 60$ mouse annyway) Because they use such a unlikely reason as their motivation and to convince us i dont realy trust it at all. @below: Making an account and having to go online to use all the functions of your mouse is just extremely annoying and unneccesary, i dont understand that people dont see this tbh. It realy is the inconvenience for me wich breaks it btw, and not that i dont trust razor or am afraid they will misuse the data they got from me.(if i would be woried about that i should stay off the internet all together) i do find the reason they give weird btw, but it does not realy make me mistrust them i have to admit, contrary to what i said before. Annyway:i dont care as there are still manufactorers who make mouse without having to go online, but i do fear this trend a bit. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On November 05 2012 08:26 Rassy wrote: Dont use razor (logitech i like) but this would definatly put me off from buying. Guess it all fits in the trend of cloud computing wich i feel is forced upon us. I would not find this in anny way suspect if it was not for the reason they are giving for doing this. The reason they mention seem to be complete bs, as adding the memmory on the mouse would cost vitrually nothing.(whats 2$ on a 60$ mouse annyway) Because they use such a unlikely reason as their motivation and to convince us i dont trust it at all. Okay seriously... think a little bit. Lets say it will cost an extra $1-$2 dollars, why spend that extra money when you can get around that just by getting them to make an account. Nothing will happen if they get some personal information because they don't disclose it to pretty much anyone. So who cares, lets be happy. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On November 05 2012 06:34 openbox1 wrote: What I think is really unprofessional is his bracketed (not really) in the title. That just goes from providing relevant info to interjecting your own opinion. You can do that with a post, not by changing the title. Either lock the thread if you think content inappropriate but inputting your opinion into the subject line seems poor form. However, TL is stricter then other forums so maybe its within their purview. Who knows. I don't think its opinion, its objective fact. If the Terms of Service directly show (with the aid of bolding) how the OP is misleading others, then it is no different from appending an informative mod note to the original statement. I guess it might be seen as arrogant to think that a person could think he's 100% right...but honestly I think this is one of those few cases where its clear to everyone who reads the Terms of Service that this is very wonky conspiracy thinking. The mods are doing a service to the community by highlighting these errors, particularly when its about a company that sponsors Team Liquid. They kind of have a responsibility to set the record straight, more than usual. Its probably also why no one is really talking about spying anymore, but about being forced to use the internet to get their mouse fully operational, or how they're unhappy that Razer along with every other company in existence is getting non-specific advertising data. I don't think anyone is actually defending the OP's original point anymore. | ||
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MrF
United States320 Posts
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Sorrows
United States27 Posts
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AnalThermometer
Vatican City State334 Posts
That said I wouldn't care about data collection when buying a Razer mouse. The irony is this is a forum where loads of people will be using Steam and Blizzard products which probably collect a lot more data than a little mouse will. Now go put your phone number, email address or name in a people search engine like Intelius or Pipl and see how much data you've already given away. It's part of any software agreement these days. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:12 AnalThermometer wrote: Mod edit is a bit cheeky. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties is bolded, but the part after saying: except as described in the policy below isn't. It says Razer outsources collection of the data to a third party with its own privacy policy, a policy which could be cool with all sorts of things. That said I wouldn't care about data collection when buying a Razer mouse. The irony is this is a forum where loads of people will be using Steam and Blizzard products which probably collect a lot more data than a little mouse will. Now go put your phone number, email address or name in a people search engine like Intelius or Pipl and see how much data you've already given away. It's part of any software agreement these days. Razer is one of TL's main sponsors, what did you expect? | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. The bolded part is what worries me. I don't understand why Teamliquid Mods didn't bold what I just bolded.Razor could go under, then sell all your personal information to anyone it chooses for money. I understand that you sign these agreements when using software or websites online. For hardware, why are you forced to register for functionality that you paid for? | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
Have fun with Apple. | ||
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jnd
Czech Republic915 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote: Razer is not spying, their TOU is just like any other software/hardware company So because everyone does it that makes it good? Nowadays everyone tries to harvest as much personal info as possible because it's so valuable. Any other TOU/TOS is leaving the backdoor open with some "except", usually also backed by "when needed by law" so it doesn't look as bad and evidently it works on people as seen in this thread. Well at least they tell you in this case if you happen to read it all, web trackers are on almost every site and doesn't ask you at all. Call be old and conservative but I still value my privacy, maybe it's not cool anymore. I want to buy hardware peripherals and use all of it's functions without requiring any registration at all. Why would you do it? | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
These were all stuff from their headsets to their mice to their gamepads. I don't know about their keyboards, but I've heard of build quality issues with them as well -_- I'd really like to keep supporting Razer, but never again after getting ripped off twice. | ||
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Scholera
United States166 Posts
I absolutely love that you simply need to register your mouse once (you dont even need an internet connection, you could do it at a fucking local library if you wanted to) and then you are able to customize all the settings you want and they are saved to the mouse and cloud allowing you to have access anywhere to your settings. As far as I know almost all good gaming mice do this, the case is the same with my kone+ | ||
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Onos
Canada107 Posts
On November 05 2012 08:34 FiWiFaKi wrote: Okay seriously... think a little bit. Lets say it will cost an extra $1-$2 dollars, why spend that extra money when you can get around that just by getting them to make an account. I know the cloud is hyped everywhere, but please tell me, where does this magic cloud run, who maintains it, who pays for the servers/electricity/maintenance? As to why, easy - because you don't want to be an annoyance to your own customers. Will I need an account for my monitor, keyboard, mouse, motherboard? | ||
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Nihilnovi
Sweden696 Posts
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TrippSC2
United States209 Posts
The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable. As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle. It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset? I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. | ||
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TheGDStudio
Sweden12 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:07 TrippSC2 wrote: This is being majorly overblown, less so here than on reddit (any post being rational is being downvoted to oblivion). The ToS being talked about is pretty standard among most types of software. Nothing on there looks at all unreasonable. As for the spyware/bloatware concerns, it doesn't install anything without your knowledge and the memory/bandwidth footprint is incredibly small (44MB of memory and I have yet to see it send so much as a packet out). It really isn't going to affect anyone's system. For reference, Steam has a 120MB memory footprint while idle. It kind of sucks that you can't make config changes offline, but who really games offline now-a-days? Is that really a concern or is it just a reason to pretend to be upset? I find it hard to believe that the software itself is inconveniencing anyone, aside from bugs in the drivers (which can occur in non-Synapse drivers) or bugs with the activation server (the only legitimate concern imo). Other than that, it looks like most of this can be chalked up to paranoia and bitching for the sake of bitching. Are you kidding me? We're talking about a fucking mouse. It should work straight out of the box with all the features as intended even when offline. The whole register/activate/synapse thing should be OPTIONAL not MANDATORY. This is the major issue imo. They fucked up, maybe not on apocalyptical levels as some might portray it but they definitely fucked up here. Their CEO wasn't that great with his explanation either, because it is still considered mandatory to go thru those hoops. edit: wrong account. meh fuck it. | ||
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gurrpp
United States437 Posts
Switching my deathadder from its previous drivers to synapse was a downgrade. I'm done with razer. I've owned a razer headset, which broke after a few months. I've owned a deathadder, which still works but has always had buggy mousewheel. Now I would have to deal with razer synapse for my mouse. I switched from a razer deathadder to a logitech g9x, which has onboard memory, adjustable weight, removable case, adjustable mousewheel, and on hardware dpi switching. These features, not pretty LEDs should, be standard on gaming mice. | ||
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