EPTEDIT: Also this needs huge big warnings on the box that features require an account, etc. I don't know if they have that, but they should...
Razer (is not really) spying on customers - Page 12
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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler + “personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified. By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below. Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance. While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information. In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information. Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy. Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. | ||
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Winterfell
United States170 Posts
EDIT: Also this needs huge big warnings on the box that features require an account, etc. I don't know if they have that, but they should... | ||
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HeatEXTEND
Netherlands836 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:18 MrF wrote: you should be thanking the mods for leaving this stupid thread up at all. And how exactly might this thread be "stupid" ? Have fun registering your breakfast in a couple of years :p | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons.. It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- | ||
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ArhK
France287 Posts
On November 08 2012 19:56 Martijn wrote: I don't see the big deal. I'd be annoyed as fuck if I'd have to reconfigure all those buttons every time I'm on a new computer and if storing them online instead of adding internal storage on the mouse is cheaper, well, that sounds like a good solution to me.. Having your profile for all those extra keys stored online is a fine alternative imho. Honestly, the fact that the scrollwheel on deathadders dies after 3-4 months is why I'm not a fan of Razer any more. I've had a boomslang 2k, 2 diamondbacks and I'm on my third deathadder. The scrollwheel dies waaaay too fast and I'm not sold on their newer mice :/ I wouldn't use a naga seeming it looks heavy and clumsy and I have no need for that many side buttons.. It's hilarious that people would describe this as "spying" though. Way too try to stir up drama -_- Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? | ||
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Winterfell
United States170 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/12sq9l/when_a_mouse_requires_an_internet_connection/ [–]Flexxus 11 points 12 hours ago 15 minutes ago, Min-Liang Tan (CEO of Razer) posted this clarification on his facebook: "I wanted to provide some further clarification on Synapse 2.0: SYNAPSE 1.0 vs SYNAPSE 2.0 Razer was the first to recognize the need for gamers to save their mouse configurations and settings onboard their peripherals. To that end, we created Synapse 1.0, which utilized onboard memory to store settings inside Razer products. This ability has now become one of the de facto features used in gaming mice worldwide. Over time, we realized that as firmware, profiles, macros and other settings stored in onboard memory became more complex, more memory space was required. On top of that, other features that we wanted to include, such as inter-device drivers and profile exchanging, were not possible with the Synapse 1.0 architecture. To give gamers the same benefits provided in Synapse 1.0 and more, we invented Synapse 2.0. Instead of having mouse settings limited by the space in onboard memory, Synapse 2.0 allows gamers to now have almost unlimited space for their profiles and macros. Moreover, other new functionalities such as being able to interact with other peripherals on the same architecture (i.e. keymaps between mice and keyboards) are now possible. Now gamers are also able to easily import and export profiles with their friends. Another benefit to Synapse 2.0 is that if you purchase an additional Synapse 2.0 mouse for another system, it will not have to set it up all over again; it will be instantaneously customized to one’s stored settings. Such features would not be possible with Synapse 1.0. We also believe in continuing to support our earlier products with software updates. We believe in providing additional value to our customers as opposed to only providing such features for our new hardware. For example, the Razer Naga MMO gaming mouse created with the Synapse 1.0 architecture was recently updated through Synapse 2.0 to include keymapping, unlimited profiles, and import/export functions. These updates would have taxed memory beyond the original capacity of the mouse using just Synapse 1.0. With Synapse 2.0, every Naga user can have his or her mouse upgraded directly from the cloud without having to go out and purchase another mouse or recreate macros and user-created content. Synapse 2.0 offers these types of benefit and we’re happy to add features to our products for dedicated gamers looking for continued value after purchase. However, we recognize that there may be some users of legacy Razer products who prefer to use Synapse 1.0 drivers. While we will still be making these available (see below), we do not want to penalize the vast majority of gamers who want to see our new products and legacy products upgraded to the Synapse 2.0 platform. Synapse 2.0 vs. DRM Our products work perfectly out of the box. Unlike DRM games or other media that require an always-on connection, you can use any of our peripherals right out of the box, even if someone doesn’t install Synapse 2.0, and whether a user is offline or online. Synapse 2.0 provides for additional functionality in the form of cloud storage for settings, inter-device communications, etc. Once registered, Synapse 2.0 provides additional functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud. It does the same with mapping physical functions, affording myriad options for an array of applications. The amount of information required to register the product is minimal. Again, we make a range of products that, to some degree or another, benefit from cloud-based functionality, but it is not a requirement for our products to work. There are great gamers out there that don’t regularly use Synapse 2.0, which speaks to the inherent quality of our products. Synapse 2.0 works OFFLINE One of the biggest misunderstandings is the equation of Synapse 2.0 to always-on DRM. It’s a popular notion that anything requiring a login has DRM included in it, and this misconception is one that easily gets the community fired up. In this case however, it’s incorrect. Once registered, Synapse 2.0 works offline and never needs to be online again. So basically, a user creates an account, saves initial settings, and if there’s no internet connection, it doesn’t matter - settings are saved on the client PC and are not synced to the cloud. Synapse 2.0 works offline. We understand that this still might be confusing. We will continue to take steps to clarify and to ensure that our users have the correct information (see below). Server Outages Finally, as far as the Synapse 2.0 activation server goes, we realize that we have had intermittent issues with it due to server usage spikes and, most recently, because of Hurricane Sandy – not uncommon challenges with server-based functions, especially given the severity of the storm – and we’re working on increasing server reliability. We had an issue for four hours recently when users were unable to register for new Synapse 2.0 accounts. Current users of Synapse 2.0 were unaffected. We are working on new ways to keep these types of issues from occurring. Steps to clarify the situation Legacy or Synapse 1.0 drivers (for applicable legacy products) will be made available shortly on the Razer Support Site. We will continue to develop applicable Synapse 2.0 drivers for our other legacy products, as the vast majority of users of our products have been asking for Synapse 2.0 features. Again, if those products are already Synapse 1.0 supported, we will make both Synapse 1.0 and Synapse 2.0 drivers available to them. All future Razer products will support Synapse 2.0 and other future platforms. Manual Offline mode will be made available shortly. At this time, Synapse 2.0 works seamlessly between online and offline mode, and is unobtrusive to the user. If an internet connection goes down and if the user has enabled offline mode by checking the “stay logged in” box, Synapse 2.0 automatically goes into offline mode. Through listening to our community we have added many new features to Synapse, and we have been working on putting in place a more robust manual offline mode for Synapse 2.0, letting users choose to go into offline mode with a click of a button. This functionality will be rolled into an upcoming update. We value the feedback from the community and we hope the above statement helps to clarify any issues." | ||
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forestry
95 Posts
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
The sad thing is it will completely work on a large part of the gaming community. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On November 08 2012 20:01 ArhK wrote: Right, we need to store online the few kilobytes worth of information related to the profile and buttons, absolutely. You are aware that, 7 years ago, Razer did just that for the first time, using onboard memory in their Razer Copperhead ? You are aware that in 7 years, memory prices have only gone down, and expanded way beyond what is required to store the information about your profile ? Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. | ||
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HeatEXTEND
Netherlands836 Posts
On November 08 2012 22:10 Martijn wrote: Go read the post below yours. Furthermore I'd love to hear what makes you feel like you're qualified to lecture me on hardware. Be great if you could put that under your apology. The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). | ||
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Simberto
Germany11629 Posts
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote: The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative. | ||
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote: Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative. It's not a great alternative, it's a terrible alternative. How much storage do you really think they need to store this stuff? It's ultimately going to be stored in an XML text file or equivalent no bigger than 5kb-15kb as a liberal estimate. You will *never* hear Razer say that, though. | ||
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HeatEXTEND
Netherlands836 Posts
On November 09 2012 09:09 stafu wrote: How much storage do you really think they need to store this stuff? Pretty much, this. If that Razer CEO or whatever simply said "this method makes things cheaper for us" to begin with. But they didn't :/. Most people don't like being bullshitted :p. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11629 Posts
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TJ31
630 Posts
On November 08 2012 21:06 forestry wrote: Sales must be dropping... Could be one of the reasons too. Can't say for anyone else, but I'm not buying Taipan just because I don't want to deal with that synapse crap after I've got used to built-in memory. Like someone already said, after all those years with built-n memory.. suddenly Razer decided to make a downgrade on their hardware. Also "rising prices" is so far from the truth. Prices for pretty much all types of memory dropped SO much for the last 5 years, especially flash memory. Also there's Razer competitors, who sell about same quality devices for about same prices, which has built-in memory. Someone also were talking about alternatives... This is not an alternative, this is mandatory. Either you get expensive "generic" mouse or you have to use synapse 2.0. Alternative would be: leave built-in memory, at least for 1 profile like nearly every entry level gaming mice have ( see Sensei Raw which has 1 profile compared to "full" version's 5 profiles, but it's cheaper ) AND add the cloud storage system. So everyone can choose what's good for him/her, driverless experience with 1(or 1-5) profles or synapse with limitless profiles and cloud sync. And one more thing. How progamers will be able to use their settings on tournaments or how normal players who are playing from internet cafes will have to deal with it? Does that mean that every PC at, let's say WCS, will have synapse installed? Doubt about that tbh, as well as I doubt they would let players to install random software on their PCs, because if every gamer with different hardware will install drivers there.... So that means gamers won't be able to play using their favorite settings. P.S. I do write all this because I like some of the Razer products, particularly their mice products. I have 4 myself ( if count old ones too. Diamondback 3g still working after all those years ) and bought some as a gifts to my friends. So it's really sad to see they did such a terrible And I hope that gamers/customers opinion and sales will show them that, it's not hard to add built-in memory to the next year's models. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:22 Martijn wrote: Online storage is always going to hugely cheaper. Now, considering (as far as I know) the naga supports macros as well, there's not only a lot more to store but there's also very little indication on the max capacity required by any user. Someone might just directly bind keys, another might have a bunch of scripts stored. Consider it's a mouse targeted at "gamers" repeating the same 6-7 second sequence over and over and over until it's time to loot, it'd be embarrassing to have a mouse run out of memory. This leads to making online storage a great alternative. I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate but please don't. Your arguments are ridiculous. You can have a portable version of Windows XP on a 1gb flash stick with room to spare. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that mouse bindings and scripts take up more than that? I checked the size of my G15 scripts/macros, and it's 2.5mb INCLUDING the Logitech macro files they have in there. Even the most hardcore script-oriented gamer will never go over something like 256mb with 5 separate macros for each of the 20+ buttons, and it would NOT run out of memory. Running a script 5 times doesn't require 5x more memory. Now consider the price of 1gb flash memory. <$1 Now consider the price of the mouse. $80 Which study did they follow that said people will go "$80 is perfectly reasonable for the Razer Naga, but $81 is ABSURD! I would never pay that much!" As someone said above, if they could do it 7 years ago, they could definitely do it now when memory costs are under 1/10th of what it was then. The whole price excuse is an insult to everyone who knows the least bit about hardware. | ||
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MVega
763 Posts
On November 08 2012 19:41 HeatEXTEND wrote: And how exactly might this thread be "stupid" ? Have fun registering your breakfast in a couple of years :p To start with the original post was filled with misinformation. It's explained very clearly on the first few pages that the original claims of the threat aren't true. Most of the things were outright false and the rest were misleading. It's actually a little bit sad that days after the situation has been explained, and isn't that shocking or horrifying as original suspected or really shocking or horrifying at all, people are still acting shocked and horrified. Edit: And now they're making available legacy drivers, although it looks like the forced activation thing was exaggerated as well. | ||
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chaokel
Australia535 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:38 HeatEXTEND wrote: The post below him is horrible in that it actually stays adamant on the memory thing. This is simply BS, nothing more, nothing less. And he should apologize for what, did he hurt your feelings or something ? How's about you explain why setting up online servers is cheaper then jamming a GB of flash memory into a mouse ? Be great if you could put that under your apology (just make something up to apologize for, anything will be fine :p). Read this thread chain: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/12sqkr/razer_products_now_come_with_spyware_require/c6xx8ed It's obviously not just as simple as getting usb flash memory and cramming it inside a mouse. If you don't have specific knowledge about the things you are talking about, do some research. edit: It's ridiculous how many people there are in this thread claiming that they are to cheap to put in 50c/$1 of memory. So much misinformation. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On November 09 2012 19:06 CubEdIn wrote: I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate but please don't. Your arguments are ridiculous. You can have a portable version of Windows XP on a 1gb flash stick with room to spare. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that mouse bindings and scripts take up more than that? I checked the size of my G15 scripts/macros, and it's 2.5mb INCLUDING the Logitech macro files they have in there. Even the most hardcore script-oriented gamer will never go over something like 256mb with 5 separate macros for each of the 20+ buttons, and it would NOT run out of memory. Running a script 5 times doesn't require 5x more memory. Now consider the price of 1gb flash memory. <$1 Now consider the price of the mouse. $80 Which study did they follow that said people will go "$80 is perfectly reasonable for the Razer Naga, but $81 is ABSURD! I would never pay that much!" As someone said above, if they could do it 7 years ago, they could definitely do it now when memory costs are under 1/10th of what it was then. The whole price excuse is an insult to everyone who knows the least bit about hardware. It's also a matter of engineering, the whole less is more buzzword. It's also one less part that could break. They probably didn't think it was much of an inconvenience (obviously we could argue about this a lot, but there's arguments to be made on both sides). Edit: The reddit link above explains this a lot better than I did. More importantly though; Why do you think google is so intent on putting everything on the cloud? Yes, we've had word-processors on our harddrives for many many years, since the DOS days and that has worked fine and dandy all this time. But google changed that up completely with google docs. That OS that fits on a flash memory stick? They're releasing operating systems that run on the cloud as well. I'm sure you can just google "operating system on cloud" or something and find some sources. A lot of people believe practically everything will run on the cloud in 10 years and what you have at home will just be a console (not a console as in a game console, but in a traditional sense). Though I'm fully with you on the "it's not what we're used to" and "they'd need near 100% uptime and this server downtime shouldn't hinder us" points, if we look at technology, this is a step forward. | ||
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