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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler +“personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified.
By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance.
While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information.
In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers.
Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies.
Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information.
Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy.
Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. |
On November 04 2012 06:09 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:49 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote:On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote:On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!).
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx " Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where. You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works. Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties: Show nested quote +In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is: (i) Provided voluntarily, and (ii) Used for public functions This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it. Show nested quote +"Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy." This one is even more reasonable. Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS. Show nested quote +Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so. Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies.
The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard.
The level of information needed to get a mouse working is absurd. Most companies you plug and play, very standard.
The point is, I dislike volunteering information of any kind that can be used by marketing companies. Sure, in the very simple examples you provided, it's all rainbows and lemonade. But in reality, these corporations are fiending for any information they can get their hands on, and it annoys the hell out of me that someone down the line may be able to make even a cent off of me having to fill out yet another form. (To use a mouse no less....)
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Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
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On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox.
And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1.
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I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this.
On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new
I absolutely hate it. As the guy before me said, what about no advertisement? Also, i remember the days when i could browse the web and actually discover new stuff. You know, when websites in general didn't use every piece of information, even if it's just the browser id, to make their offer fit you (youtube/google). It has advantages, but it also has a lot of downsides.
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On November 04 2012 13:22 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:14 Geefking wrote:
Would you not prefer to get targeted by advertisements that are relevant to your interests?
If companies did not have our personal information I would be stuck with tampon ads
Every company conducts data mining this is nothing new How about no adverts at all, and not exploiting your own customers to spam them later with adverts in their inbox. And people wonder why junk email outnumbers legit email 4 to 1.
^ this.
Also Razer should be very naive expecting people to register accounts for that synapse crap with their main e-mail. Creating fresh ones takes about 30 secs, so they can spam their ads there and no one will read them ever.
What I really don't like about all that synapse 2.0, it's actually a downgrade compared to synapse 1.0.
Onboard memory: install driver, change all settings you want, create profiles and save them inside of the mouse, delete driver.
Pros: mouse/kb can be moved to ANY PC without internet and without installing anything on to them, no need for drivers if you don't need to change a lot of settings/profiles.
Cons: none. Ok, if believe to Razer a bit higher price for the product. Like I already said, since when Razer cares about prices?
Cloud storage: install driver, change settings, create profiles and keep driver.
Pros: compared to onboard memory.. none? Maybe price, but I doubt about that.
Cons: every time you will want to use your mouse on another PC/MAC, you will need to install synapse there and that PC/MAC should have internet connection.
If synapse will be working bad ( conflicts with hardware/software ) you will probably delete synapse and that means your mouse will have default settings ( including dpi and everything else).
And many of you already know, how "awesome" Razer's software is.
Even that would've been enough for some people to say "no" to Razer products and now that "spying" thing. Hopefully ammount of people who will refuse to buy Razer products on such conditions will be significant enough, so they will abandon synapse 2 with next generation of mices/kbs.
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On November 04 2012 13:41 r00ty wrote:
I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this.
Using an Antivirus/Browser/Most Softwares/Online Services, in general has your information collected.
Get out of your tin foil hats and look around you, this is the 21st century, this is how the world works now.
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On November 04 2012 13:45 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:41 r00ty wrote:
I don't want any information about me being gathered unless it's absolutely necessary (no, i don't use facebook etc...). Which it isn't for mice or keyboards (wtf). The CEO statement implies that the cloud is a good thing for his product, but honestly for a mass producer a couple of freaking gigabyte of flash memory will cost them under a dollar...
They sponsor TL and e-sports, that's nice. But i'll never ever buy a product like this. Hopefully enough people think alike and they start to think about including useless features like this. Using an Antivirus/Browser/Most Softwares/Online Services, in general has your information collected. Get out of your tin foil hats and look around you, this is the 21st century, this is how the world works now.
O rly? I can still dislike, try to avoid and not support it, can't I?
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Some mod actually put some threadtext just so he can have a heard word.
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This thread is hilarious. Blizzard collects info, origin collects info, steam collects info. There, 99% of people on this forum have now had information collected. Yet they're crying because razor does it. I'm not a razor fanboi but it's funny to see these "AHHHHHH THEY'RE SPYING ON US!!" threads. Get over it. It's been done for years and years and years. Why do you think all ads on facebook are relatively alike?
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It is amazing how many people don't really read anything but the thread title and maybe half the OP. Most people think the main point is that the inconvenience makes the mice inferior, and that the "storage space limitation" explanation is complete bullshit. The collecting of data is just another annoying thing here. If i pay 60€ for a mice, in my opinion i don't have to also give them any information about me whatsoever. It was never needed before, and there appears to be no advantage to me that is added by this new account (making accounts for everything is pretty annoying as is), thus for me as a consumer i don't see the point in it. But since i already had negative experiences with razor mice, i probably wouldn't have bought it anyways, so i am probably not a person they worry about. Maybe somewhere out there are the gamers with half a million different profiles which could not fit onto memory you could add to the mouse for a dollar which totally profit from this.
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Would love to see OP's like these get sued for slander.
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I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away.
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I don't get it. I see a lot of people blowing smoke but there's no fire. Another fishing thread I was caught by thanks to a sensational title.
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On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away.
Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them.
To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do.
Issue is 2 fold.
1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent.
2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1.
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
Ridiculous. The mod note is only there as a clarification of what exactly the ToS rules in question mean. It is fully relevant and not an abuse. It's aimed at dispelling misconception and misinformation and is not an opinion.
It also contains the ToS excerpt itself.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
Team Liquid is sponsored by Razer. I'm surprised that this thread is still open.
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On November 05 2012 06:02 Maxd11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Team Liquid is sponsored by Razer. I'm surprised that this thread is still open.
I know, I noted that earlier, but I have to beleive that common sense and the desire to have a proper forum will prevail over bias and censorship.
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Jesus fuck this site lives for drama. Reminds me of high school cheerleaders.
-edit: A lot of companies do this, and its not spying...
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On November 05 2012 04:23 Wikt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread. Ridiculous. The mod note is only there as a clarification of what exactly the ToS rules in question mean. It is fully relevant and not an abuse. It's aimed at dispelling misconception and misinformation and is not an opinion. It also contains the ToS excerpt itself.
What I think is really unprofessional is his bracketed (not really) in the title. That just goes from providing relevant info to interjecting your own opinion. You can do that with a post, not by changing the title.
Either lock the thread if you think content inappropriate but inputting your opinion into the subject line seems poor form. However, TL is stricter then other forums so maybe its within their purview. Who knows.
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On November 05 2012 04:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:57 LgNKami wrote:
I mean, even if razer was collecting info on me... they probably wouldn't get much out of me that they could get out of anyone else. if you have nothing to hide, then you really shouldnt be afraid of accepting the ToS. Considering that most people dont read the ToS for anything anyway, you would be surprised at what info you could be giving away. Nothing to hide? I think that argument applies to kids and cops that want to search them. To those that cannot read the whole thread, or cannot be bothered to to do. Issue is 2 fold. 1) You must provide personal information to access higher level functions of hardware. Personal information in turn sold/given to associated companies without your direct consent. 2) Hardware higher end functions held hostage unless you agree to #1. I must add, having given it much thought. It is massively inappropriate for a moderator to abuse their powers and abilities to the point of changing the thread topic and original post, for the sole purpose of inserting their own objections, information and ideas. In this particular case, some additional and critical information was provided, but the information provided actually strengthens/confirms the OP's post topic ideas. To clarify, it is called "Abuse of Power" is the action in this case is synonymous with hijacking the thread.
So your telling me that I'm wrong? I don't have anything to hide. You can't really hide anything in the US anyway so i'm not really sure what you're getting at.
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EPT
