EPTAnyway after my previous two Razer mice I'm now rocking a CM Storm Spawn and perfectly happy. Their software looks ugly but has all the options one could need, and has never ever annoyed me with any popup or tooltip. I can even freely update the mouse firmware to any version to pick one that tracks better on white surfaces, or has lower liftoff distance, etc. Ohnoes I have to keep all the 45kb firmware files on my Dropbox, please make a CM Storm cloud service asap so I don't fill my Dropbox for nothing! :D
Razer (is not really) spying on customers - Page 7
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The extent to which Razer collects information is not much different than your average terms of service for most software you use. Like teamliquid, they collect anonymous aggregate and individual data. Unlike teamliquid, they reserve the right to collect personally identifiable information. This personally identifiable information must be volunteered by the user. This includes, your name, email address etc. This information is not shared with any third parties except in a few instances where it is necessary to provide a service or comply with the law. In all circumstances, the user voluntarily provides this information. The relevant sections of the ToS are as follows: + Show Spoiler + “personally identifiable information” may consist of a Subscriber’s name, email address, physical address or other data about the Subscriber that enables the Subscriber to be personally identified. By using Razer Synapse 2.0 (“Synapse”), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below. Razer may use customer contact information provided by Subscribers to send information about Razer, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the Subscriber agrees to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Razer will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the Subscriber agrees to such disclosure in advance. While provision of personally identifiable information remains entirely voluntary, Razer reserves the right to make access to certain value-added services or features conditional upon the supply of personally identifiable information. In such situations, the Subscriber will be given the option to decline use of the particular value added service or feature if he does not wish to furnish personally identifiable information. In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Razer in databases hosted in secure locations. Razer has taken reasonable steps to protect the information Subscribers share with it, including, but not limited to, setup of processes, equipment and software to avoid unauthorized access or disclosure of this information. Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy. Razer may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information, without the need of consent from the Subscriber. | ||
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Matoo-
Canada1397 Posts
Anyway after my previous two Razer mice I'm now rocking a CM Storm Spawn and perfectly happy. Their software looks ugly but has all the options one could need, and has never ever annoyed me with any popup or tooltip. I can even freely update the mouse firmware to any version to pick one that tracks better on white surfaces, or has lower liftoff distance, etc. Ohnoes I have to keep all the 45kb firmware files on my Dropbox, please make a CM Storm cloud service asap so I don't fill my Dropbox for nothing! :D | ||
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Lu_e
United States95 Posts
& another thing: China, why you so cheap? Your Keyboards are made with thinner-than-paper-clip stabilizers, some blue keyswitches with NO CLICK, & warped keyboard cases that can NOT sit flat. Now mice memory is too expensive? Did you even add diodes to the pcb for the "new" 2kro+? doubt it. Possible the ToS just seems badly worded? Like can anyone copypasta a similar (steam, xbl) one since "they all say the same thing"? | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:40 Black Gun wrote: hnmmm, quite an annoying issue - do you guys know if this also applies to older razer products, say a deatchadder black edition? if no, i might buy one or two of them just to stock up and give me more time until i need a new mouse, so other manufacturers can produce new mice that i might like. Yes, it does. I've actually stopped using my DE Black because I kept keeping looped through the update process, but never was able to activate the mouse (fixed now though). The Imperator I have isn't effected by Synapse, so I use that instead. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
also, this Synapse 2.0 is NOT DRM. Our products work perfectly well out of the box without Synapse 2.0. Synapse 2.0 provides ADDITIONAL functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud as opposed to taking away functionality (which is what DRM is). I believe this is the exact definition of double speak... disallowing cloud access/storage without registering is doing exactly what he says it's "not" doing. Edit: I guess I should re-iterate like the massive mod note, doesn't stop you from using the mouse, but it does stop you from using the full functionality of it. | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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LuckyGnomTV
Russian Federation367 Posts
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Blacktion
United Kingdom1148 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On November 04 2012 00:45 PanzerPony wrote: What bothers me the most is this part of ToS: As far as I understand, this basically means that ANYTHING you create using their mouse could potentially be considered "User Generated Information". For example, if you are an artist and create a soundtrack while using their mouse, they have a right to use this soundtrack in any way they want. Some ToS agreements reserve a right for manufacturer to use derivative works created using their software (like SC2 ToS), but in this case it's ridiculous. No. "any information made available to Razer" is your mouse settings .. | ||
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. | ||
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iLikeRain
Denmark504 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote: It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use.This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!). The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. | ||
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:35 iLikeRain wrote: It's still a shady way to implement data collecting, seeing as the vast majority of consumers don't read it. Hopefully the soon to come European Union Data Protection Regulation will clear up a lot of these and at least for Europeans decide whether or not EULAs alone may warrant personal data collection for commercial use. You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. | ||
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openbox1
1393 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:28 HawaiianPig wrote: This is all quite the panic over nothing. Please read the mod note and OP carefully. There is no conspiracy here. They are not stealing your information and spying on your browsing habits (oh dear god, not all the my little pony fan-fiction!). The only thing worth getting mildly indignant about is the need to be online to install hardware--and even then, plug and play functionality works just fine. And complaining about crappy razer software especially Synapse 2.0 which is a joke. Plug and play works fine but that's not why people buy razr keyboards and mice which cost a little more than your plug and play 3 button scroll mice. But agree, the title is a little sensationalistic. | ||
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:04 synapse wrote: how could they use me like this That's pretty funny. :D On another note--if you are upset about this, I hope you don't use facebook. | ||
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iLikeRain
Denmark504 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote: I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx "Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description.You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where. | ||
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jimbob615
Uruguay455 Posts
like because it automatically saves my settings such as the sensitivity to a "cloud". hate because it asks to freaking RESTART my computer with a new update every fortnight or so! | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:41 HawaiianPig wrote: You're not reading. The user must voluntarily, that is, knowingly, provide the personal information to Razer. The user knows when they're providing the information. The software does not "spy" on you. HP, I don't think thats the issue, and you've missed the point the OP was trying to make. The issue is that high end expensive hardware, purchased for its high end functionality, is rendered into only a BASIC peice of hardware, unless the buyer agrees to provide the subject information to obtain and use the software to UNLOCK and use the hardware properly. Imagine if Nissan sold GTR's and after the consumer bought the car, the buyer found that Nissan restricted the horsepower to 50hp, unless the user agreed to a specific action, etc etc and cell phone connectivity, after which Nissan will unlock the other 400hp that the customer paid for. Is it smart yet sneaky market data collection? Yes it is. Does Razer benefit? Yes it does. Does the customer somewhat benefit from the technology? Yes, in a way. Is it FAIR to the consumer? Not even close. I won't comment on TL moderators/admins being biased or not, considering that Razer is a TL team sponsor. I trust that personal opinions and logic will prevail on that front. | ||
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Darkaros
United States248 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:59 Grimmyman123 wrote: HP, I don't think thats the issue, and you've missed the point the OP was trying to make. The issue is that high end expensive hardware, purchased for its high end functionality, is rendered into only a BASIC peice of hardware, unless the buyer agrees to provide the subject information to obtain and use the software to UNLOCK and use the hardware properly. Imagine if Nissan sold GTR's and after the consumer bought the car, the buyer found that Nissan restricted the horsepower to 50hp, unless the user agreed to a specific action, etc etc and cell phone connectivity, after which Nissan will unlock the other 400hp that the customer paid for. I won't comment on TL moderators/admins being biased or not, considering that Razer is a TL team sponsor. I trust that personal opinions and logic will prevail on that front. If that was the point the OP was making, he really should not have made a sensationalist title. It completely distracts from the point, if that was what he was trying to communicate. | ||
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:49 iLikeRain wrote: I'm reading it very well thanks, which is probably why the OP edit now has my exact quote with bolded lines and such. But no, the behaviour is still shady, eminent in fx "Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer". One thing is that you voluntarily supply them with personal information, but they're in that direct ToS allowed to out-source EVERYTHING to associates, which is a very very broad description. The information you supply Razer with is information between you and them, they practically just nullified that and gave themselves permission to share it with anyone they like without your knowledge of who and where. You're missing the reality of how this kind of thing works. Here are the three instances where your information is made available to third parties: In some situations, personally identifiable information the Subscriber inputs in connection with Synapse may be made searchable or otherwise available to other Subscribers (such as in certain public functions). Razer has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that is made available by a Subscriber to other Subscribers. If you're reading this correctly, you'd notice that this information is: (i) Provided voluntarily, and (ii) Used for public functions This type of information is the type you would use in a public user profile. It is information you volunteer, knowing that it is used for this purpose. It is searchable by other subscribers, and the information that they obtain can be used by them in whatever way they see fit ("adhere to their own set of privacy policies"). This is very much akin to your facebook friends or companies you like on facebook using information they can see on your public profile. You put it there, and you put it there knowing fully well that others will be able to see it. "Razer may allow third parties performing services under contract with Razer to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this Privacy Policy." This one is even more reasonable. Say TeamLiquid and Razer are in an agreement to run a contest. The contest is for TL to provide winners of a draw with TL Gold, which allows them super posting privileges, sick forum signatures and mod privileges for a day. Razer runs the contest and draws names from its subscribers. Razer then needs to provide TL with the email addresses of the winners in order to fulfill their responsibilities of the contest. To provide this information, they provide only what is necessary to TL, and TL is bound to keep the information privileged and used only for the purposes as set out by the Razer ToS. Collection of personally identifiable information may be out-sourced to associates under agreement with Razer. These associates may adhere to their own set of privacy policies. Say instead, Razer runs the contest themselves, instead this time the prize is to send you Razer products. Say they outsource the fulfillment of the contest to an agency which does logistics/shipping. They, then, must provide this company with your name, address, and contact information to do so. Yes, this company can create its own policy as to what to do with the information when they get it, but Razer is still bound by their own privacy policy on what they can and cannot provide to these companies. The level of paranoia here is absurd. Disclosure agreements like this are very standard. | ||
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