Veganism: A Discussion - Page 31

On September 22 2012 23:13 Nevermind86 wrote:
This thread is inspiring to me from a psychological point of view. There is something about people that makes them self mutilate for moral reasons (is that the only reason?), it used to be about religion back in the days where people preferred not do to anything to not commit any sins that would take them to hell, that same twisted self mutilation, I though, was a thing of the past but it's origins must be biological: Now people self mutilate not to not commit any sins but because they don't agree with the treatment of animals (but support abortion on the basis that a woman should "chose" not to have a baby even when the method to get rid of it it's artificial?), so they chose not to eat anything comming from an animal, the reason seems to be morality again but why should anybody self mutilate because of morals, not eating animal products yourself is not even an efficient way of changing the system but people still insist to go with it and just like with religion they will preach from a holier-than-thou attitude, well not all of the vegans do this, but then again not all religious people do it, but some of the vegans, which is enough for me when it comes to this comparison.

At the end of the day both groups are trying to save the world. I guess this orientation of self-mutilation is quite common, I've seen it in communists with good education who refuse to work high paying professions out of a sense of solidarity with the working class, "as not to exploit them", or rock lovers who refuse to get anywhere close to people that listen rap. What motivates a human being to self-mutilate behind senses of morals?, That is an interesting question, but like I said the answer must be biological because of the similarities, it's like twins who like the same colour without them not knowing each other.

On September 22 2012 23:17 dmfg wrote:


I think we tend to anthromorphise too much. You kick a cat or a dog, and it will react in the way its brain is wired to in order to minimise or stop damage to itself. We then interpret that as pain (a subjective experience) because we are capable of subjective experience, and because if a similar thing happened to us we would experience pain. Does it actually experience pain? Probably, but noone knows.

So, I'll go out of my way to avoid harm to anything that can communicate sentience to me. I'm not gonna go around needlessly killing/harming anything that can't, but I'm not gonna lose too much sleep over whether they live or die. That pretty much applies equally whether I'm taking medicine to kill parasites that make me feel shitty, or whether I'm paying for animals to be raised and slaughtered for meat.

You can call it selfish if you like, but at the end of the day, pretty much everything anyone does it selfish

On September 22 2012 23:13 Nevermind86 wrote:
This thread is inspiring to me from a psychological point of view. There is something about people that makes them self mutilate for moral reasons (is that the only reason?), it used to be about religion back in the days where people preferred not do to anything to not commit any sins that would take them to hell, that same twisted self mutilation, I though, was a thing of the past but it's origins must be biological: Now people self mutilate not to not commit any sins but because they don't agree with the treatment of animals (but support abortion on the basis that a woman should "chose" not to have a baby even when the method to get rid of it it's artificial?), so they chose not to eat anything comming from an animal, the reason seems to be morality again but why should anybody self mutilate because of morals, not eating animal products yourself is not even an efficient way of changing the system but people still insist to go with it and just like with religion they will preach from a holier-than-thou attitude, well not all of the vegans do this, but then again not all religious people do it, but some of the vegans, which is enough for me when it comes to this comparison.

At the end of the day both groups are trying to save the world. I guess this orientation of self-mutilation is quite common, I've seen it in communists with good education who refuse to work high paying professions out of a sense of solidarity with the working class, "as not to exploit them", or rock lovers who refuse to get anywhere close to people that listen rap. What motivates a human being to self-mutilate behind senses of morals?, That is an interesting question, but like I said the answer must be biological because of the similarities, it's like twins who like the same colour without them not knowing each other.

On September 23 2012 01:29 Chaves wrote:


Just GoodGuyPig

On September 23 2012 00:13 Nevermind86 wrote:
Tell me it isn't a extreme to not eat any food that comes from animals. For biological reasons you are supposed to eat all kinds of food, including fish, eggs, etc. Of course there are good reasons to keep a balanced diet, but vegans seems to me more a group of people that have a political agenda than a group of people that share a particular diet. Their political agenda is clear: They criticize a system that "tortures" animals but that is what carnivores are supposed to do, you have to kill to eat, it is how nature works, so these people claim to like all natural things but ignore the fact that killing other animals for food is natural.

Then some of these vegans started talking about abortion, how it is ethical for a woman to decide not to have a child, which would be unnatural because a procedure must be practiced. This leads me to my next question: What if meat could be produced in tubes through a clonation-like method, just like people were produced in that masterpiece of a book Brave New World of Aldous Huxley, would they start eating meat beause is produced in tubes and no animals were killed? That would be more "civilized" I suppose?

Self-mutilation is depriving of something that you want, going against instincts for no apparent reason other than some sense of morals. Morals are practical to some extent, I think that a sense of morals is something biological, from an evolutionary point of view having morals is good for the species because it brings certain stability that garantees reproduction, fear of commiting rape because of how everybody else would look at you sure existed when all of humanity lived in tribes in Africa, after all we are a social species. Now on to vegans the reason they chose their diet is political or moral if you want to call it that, rather than having a more balanced diet, because a more balanced diet would have to include products that come from animals, it is hypocritical and inefficient because millions of animals die at harvests, crushed by machinery and poisoned by pesticides, so even if you eat vegan millions of animals still die, then the reason is that sense of morality, that same sense of morality that drives communists and feminists to proclaim that if everybody though like they did the world would live in some sort of Utopia. If morals (and I believe this to be true) have a biological origin, a twisted sense of morals could be a twisted biology, that would explain a lot of extremes, extremists are pretty much alike, what changes is the cause, what drives a person to force others to wear a Burqa?, the same reasons that drive a person not to eat milk to not torture cows.

You can feel offended by what I just said and I apologize for that. But sometimes comments have to be raw or they would lack sincerity, if we all lacked sincerity we would all be politicians and that would be not only a terrible world but a very boring one. You can dislike what I said, but you shouldn't ignore it, art it's not supposed to be judged but contemplated, the same can be said I guess to a person's opinions. I don't have anything against vegans, bottom line is they're probably cool people, but still it is a weird moral reason not eating any animal products, a weird extreme worth to look at.

On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:
Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans.

"1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals

I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives.

Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields.

Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow.

As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow.
2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy

When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof.

And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation.

For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what.

However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of.

The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos.

And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer.

While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it.

People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts.

[The leaders of anti-vegetarians]
3) You don’t get to eat meat

I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy.

And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef.

So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense.
4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it!

This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.

I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.

It goes something like this:

fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables

This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.

So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what."



Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/

On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:


You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless.

On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:


You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons.

If you actually read the article it also notes at the top:

"Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits."

On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:

You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots?

Cool point.

On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:

So what's the problem with that?

On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:

So what's the problem with that?

On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:


It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute.

On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:

You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point.

So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me.

On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:


It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute.

On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:

I haven't done anything



That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on

This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.

I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.

It goes something like this:

fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables

This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.

So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what."