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On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything  On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": Show nested quote +This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid.
But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument?
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On September 23 2012 02:21 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid. But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument?
Which guy? The one in the thread who quoted the article? No.
Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans.
The one writing the article? No, it's his reasoning for how it's impossible to not eat meat which means all vegetarians are hypocrites.
Also, yeah. The guy talking about troll articles wins. qq. t.t
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On September 23 2012 02:25 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:21 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 23 2012 01:24 kmillz wrote:Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. "1) You aren’t saving the lives of animals I get it. You don’t like it when the heads of baby cows and pigs are chopped off, but do you really think eating that tofu burger is saving lives. Fruits, vegetables, and grains are a staple among vegetarian diets, but did you know that millions of animals die just so you can enjoy that piece of bread? Eating foods like grains means destroying ecosystems and all of its inhabitants. It means killing all the little animals, birds, bugs, and microorganisms that live among the fields. Do you know how many little animals and microorganisms die when farmers use machines to plow through wheat fields? The answer is a lot more than 1 cow. As cheesy as it sounds, everything in life requires sacrifice. Animals are killed to get meat and ecosystems are destroyed to get grains. So the next time I’m eating a steak, don’t you dare judge me for killing a cow. 2) There is absolutely zero scientific proof showing that going vegetarian is healthy When I want to believe something, I need proof. I need definite scientific proof. And no, proof doesn’t mean reading a quote in Shape or MensHealth magazine. In order to convince me about anything I need to see a scientific study that shows causation not correlation. For example, eating less food will make you loss weight. This is a stone cold fact that will remain true no matter what. However, there is absolutely ZERO proof showing that going vegetarian will decrease your risk of heart disease, cancer, or whatever nasty stuff you can think of. The only thing we have are thousands of studies showing a correlation between an increased risk of disease and an increase in meat consumption. We have studies that conclude that eating meat “may increase” your risk of heart disease, but this doesn’t mean crap. It’s inconclusive and doesn’t prove anything. Saying that your risk of heart disease “may increase” from eating red meat is like saying you “may” be able to breath fire if you eat enough jalapenos. And yes, before you get all crazy on me, I have read the China Study a.k.a the vegetarian’s wet dream. For those who don’t know, the China Study was a big study conducted by Dr. Campbell who basically concluded that meat is killer. While the China Study garnered a ton of media attention a couple years ago, it is also an incredibly flawed study despite it’s massive scale. But talking about all the flaws in the China Study is beyond the scope of this article, so let me turn you over to a great article written by Denise Minger of Raw Food SOS. She did an amazing job in analyzing the China Study and basically debunked every single aspect of it. People need to stop believing the mainstream media, and need to start looking at the actual research and facts. [The leaders of anti-vegetarians] 3) You don’t get to eat meat I know this is a bit obvious, but being a vegetarian means that you don’t get to eat meat. EVER. That means no steak, bacon, horse, or BBQ ribs. The closest thing you’ll ever get to meat is some glued together crap made of wheat and soy. And please, don’t tell me that your veggie burger tastes better than my double bacon cheeseburger, okay? Don’t tell me “Oh, but it tastes just like the real thing.” No it doesn’t, you rationalizing crazy person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, a piece of tofu will never taste as good as a greasy piece of beef. So if vegetarians are so concerned about their health, then why do they opt for highly processed foods likes breads and cereals that are not found in nature as opposed to real animal meat which has been around since…. forever. It makes no freakin sense. 4) Vegetarians are actually eating animals without knowing it! This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting. I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment. It goes something like this: fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature. So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." Source: http://www.fitmole.net/4-reasons-why-becoming-a-vegetarian-is-a-fucking-stupid-idea/ You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless. You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid. But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument? Which guy? The one in the thread who quoted the article? No. Show nested quote +Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. The one writing the article? No, it's his reasoning for how it's impossible to not eat meat which means all vegetarians are hypocrites. Also, yeah. The guy talking about troll articles wins. qq. t.t
Forget the stupid dead animal shit. Forget the arguement about taste. Even forget the health part. I posted the article because I thought it was funny, the main point I wanted to highlight is this:
Do you deny that farming vegetables kills animals?
If so, maybe you should read this article about "Why being vegetarian can kill more animals than eating meat"
http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/why-a-vegetarian-might-kill-more-animals-than-an-omnivore/
Basically what I am saying is that refusing to eat animals or animal products simply is not going to reduce the amount of animals that are being killed. I would argue that the best way to approach "stopping animals from mistreatment" (which seems to be the primary concern of vegans) is to raise awareness and gathering support for a political agenda aimed at stricter regulations on the process through which animals are converted into food, stricter penalties for being cruel or tortorous to animals, etc..
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Considering what we are, and where we come from; The whole vegan approach should be interpreted from a psychiatric angle. It involves more denial and reverse rationalization than your average religious fanatic could come up with.
If anything, I'm glad I'm not slave to such a half-measure lifestyle (it's like using a smaller engine to save oil, lol).
User was warned for this post
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I only eat meat from local farms...none of that factory-farm meat; I refuse to support that. If one wants to eat vegan/vegetarian, that's great, but I despise this "holier-than-thou" attitude many vegans/vegetarians seem to have. Humans are omnivores like it or not, but if one simply does not like meat, that's perfectly acceptable.
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On September 23 2012 03:26 tMomiji wrote:
I only eat meat from local farms...none of that factory-farm meat; I refuse to support that. If one wants to eat vegan/vegetarian, that's great, but I despise this "holier-than-thou" attitude many vegans/vegetarians seem to have. Humans are omnivores like it or not, but if one simply does not like meat, that's perfectly acceptable.
^^this I respect.
On September 23 2012 03:09 Demand2k wrote:
Considering what we are, and where we come from; The whole vegan approach should be interpreted from a psychiatric angle. It involves more denial and reverse rationalization than your average religious fanatic could come up with.
If anything, I'm glad I'm not slave to such a half-measure lifestyle (it's like using a smaller engine to save oil, lol).
A lot of times this is their argument (not ok with killing animal etc...). Not many use physiological argument as this is harder to maintain a stance on.
edit:
"3.There are virtually no nutrients in animal-based foods that are not better provided by plants."
Incorrect:
Protein has a lesser quality in plants than meats. Fact.
Fat is virtually not found in plants but yet is it is used and needed for proper body function (brain, thermo regulation, etc...)
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On September 23 2012 02:29 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:25 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:
[quote]
You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless.
You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:44 Asmodeusx wrote:
[quote]
You're being a fool by arguing against group of people who don't have a unified set of rules. Your points will be correct in argument's with some vegetarians and incorrect with others. That makes your emotional response pretty useless.
You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons. If you actually read the article it also notes at the top: "Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid. But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument? Which guy? The one in the thread who quoted the article? No. Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. The one writing the article? No, it's his reasoning for how it's impossible to not eat meat which means all vegetarians are hypocrites. Also, yeah. The guy talking about troll articles wins. qq. t.t Forget the stupid dead animal shit. Forget the arguement about taste. Even forget the health part. I posted the article because I thought it was funny, the main point I wanted to highlight is this: Do you deny that farming vegetables kills animals? If so, maybe you should read this article about "Why being vegetarian can kill more animals than eating meat" http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/why-a-vegetarian-might-kill-more-animals-than-an-omnivore/Basically what I am saying is that refusing to eat animals or animal products simply is not going to reduce the amount of animals that are being killed. I would argue that the best way to approach "stopping animals from mistreatment" (which seems to be the primary concern of vegans) is to raise awareness and gathering support for a political agenda aimed at stricter regulations on the process through which animals are converted into food, stricter penalties for being cruel or tortorous to animals, etc..
The entire premise of the article you linked talks about vegetarians, and examines the case where a vegetarian replaces their meat protein intake with eggs. Rather more specific than the conclusion you draw from it.
I read your argument as "there is a chance that vegetarians/vegans could cause more animal suffering/death than omnivores, therefore the idea of becoming a vegetarian/vegan for ethical reasons is wrong". If that's what you're saying, then I'd have to disagree - I think when it is impossible to predict the outcome of an individual's actions, the intention alone is enough to make the decision reasonable (even if the outcome is the same or even worse).
Someone may become a vegan because they intend to reduce animal deaths. Even if they inadvertently increase animal deaths, 1) they cannot possibly know that and 2) if they are ethically comfortable because of the intention then isn't that mission accomplished?
I'd liken it to a doctor giving blood transfusions. Obviously the intention is to make someone better, but every now and then he is going to kill someone who was otherwise going to be absolutely fine if he'd done nothing. That doesn't make it useless or harmful to give transfusions.
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On September 23 2012 03:35 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:29 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:25 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:
[quote]
You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons.
If you actually read the article it also notes at the top:
"Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:
[quote]
You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons.
If you actually read the article it also notes at the top:
"Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid. But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument? Which guy? The one in the thread who quoted the article? No. Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. The one writing the article? No, it's his reasoning for how it's impossible to not eat meat which means all vegetarians are hypocrites. Also, yeah. The guy talking about troll articles wins. qq. t.t Forget the stupid dead animal shit. Forget the arguement about taste. Even forget the health part. I posted the article because I thought it was funny, the main point I wanted to highlight is this: Do you deny that farming vegetables kills animals? If so, maybe you should read this article about "Why being vegetarian can kill more animals than eating meat" http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/why-a-vegetarian-might-kill-more-animals-than-an-omnivore/Basically what I am saying is that refusing to eat animals or animal products simply is not going to reduce the amount of animals that are being killed. I would argue that the best way to approach "stopping animals from mistreatment" (which seems to be the primary concern of vegans) is to raise awareness and gathering support for a political agenda aimed at stricter regulations on the process through which animals are converted into food, stricter penalties for being cruel or tortorous to animals, etc.. The entire premise of the article you linked talks about vegetarians, and examines the case where a vegetarian replaces their meat protein intake with eggs. Rather more specific than the conclusion you draw from it. I read your argument as "there is a chance that vegetarians/vegans could cause more animal suffering/death than omnivores, therefore the idea of becoming a vegetarian/vegan for ethical reasons is wrong". If that's what you're saying, then I'd have to disagree - I think when it is impossible to predict the outcome of an individual's actions, the intention alone is enough to make the decision reasonable (even if the outcome is the same or even worse). Someone may become a vegan because they intend to reduce animal deaths. Even if they inadvertently increase animal deaths, 1) they cannot possibly know that and 2) if they are ethically comfortable because of the intention then isn't that mission accomplished? I'd liken it to a doctor giving blood transfusions. Obviously the intention is to make someone better, but every now and then he is going to kill someone who was otherwise going to be absolutely fine if he'd done nothing. That doesn't make it useless or harmful to give transfusions.
What? I'm pretty sure you only get a blood transfusion when you need one...
Also I think it's pretty funny that the Vegans have dropped the whole psuedoscience approach in favor of the guilt approach.
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I see a bumper sticker on occasion that says something to the effect of "Respect all life, go vegan". The irony in this statement can't really be lost on everyone, can it?
The fact that most humans empathize more with certain organisms - their own kind, or those with similar features and emotions - seems like a pretty simplistic way of ranking their value. You discard countless generations of strange and unique microscopic organisms every time you turn the thermostat. Every time you eat cooked food, take a shower, brush your teeth. We kill innumerable amounts of rodents, birds, insects, and competing "weeds" just to satisfy the agricultural output necessary to feed ourselves. You may choose to swat an insect because it stings you, or sit on it accidentally on a bench. You eat other organisms and kill, regardless of your desires, because it is the nature of existence to do so.
I think the main concern should be for environmental damage from things like overfishing and meat production's toxic run-off. Some people will say that agriculture is more responsible for these things than the meat industry, but in reality most of the land for agriculture is used to produce grains that feed animals (corn&soy) and transform ecosystems into pasture/range for cows to live chemically safe in their own filth. It's a shame that agricultural development is partner in crime to the meat industry's ambitions, and that you can't save the world or yourself by simply eating a vegan diet. I think it would be nice if we could design a system that both feeds us more effectively and minimizes the burden on our fellow inhabitants of the planet. Even from a purely utilitarian point of view, it does us no benefit to wipe out species we haven't studied very well when the very very few species we have studied are IMMENSELY valuable to our fight against disease, hunger, and other factors to early death.
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Something to be considered is that new research shows that plants can think just like animals/humans can. So when you think about it when you're uprooting a plant to eat it, it would be feeling as much pain as if we were being killed.
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On September 23 2012 04:35 Psychonian wrote:
Something to be considered is that new research shows that plants can think just like animals/humans can. So when you think about it when you're uprooting a plant to eat it, it would be feeling as much pain as if we were being killed.
March of the Ents gogoogo
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On September 22 2012 12:42 SolonTLG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:10 Lucy1nTheSky wrote:
If health were the only motivating factor behind my decision, I do not know if i would still be vegan, because i also believe that optimal health may be achieved with a diet that includes animal products. The main 2 reasons for my continued veganism are sustainability and the evolution of consciousness.
Have you developed any ethical motivation for staying vegan? Is that the same for you as "evolution of consciousness"?
Short answer; yes 
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On September 22 2012 23:36 Flyingdutchman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 20:03 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 19:46 SnipedSoul wrote:
Hypothetical: If plants were capable of feeling pain, would you force yourself to starve to death? I have answered that question already in this thread, and no I would not, I want to survive after all  . You can scroll through the thread, and you'll find that eating plants directly "kills" less plants then indirectly eating plants by eating animals. But cows can be fed plantmatter that does not yield a lot of nutritional value for humans, or did I miss someone saying how delicious and healthy grass and hay is? I'm aware that cows can also be fed corn and such.
Umm that's fine and yes that is possible(even though for factory farms it's not true) , but saving more food for humans is not the argument being made. If the argument is that plants feel pain, then you can't say that grass and hay feel less pain, Therefore, your still "killing" less overall plants by eating your plants directly then consuming the animal that ate them. So according to the argument, well plants "feel" pain too!(which is silly), then the least cruel diet that would let me remain alive would be one where I don't eat animals still.
'
Also, just because cows can be fed grass/hay, factory farm animals are fed a pretty ridiculous amount of grains, and random other things.
I can't believe how many people are sticking to this stupid plant argument on TL btw, It's pretty shocking how many people have brought it up.
The self mutilation comments made me laugh, Not eating meat now = cutting one self?
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On September 23 2012 05:00 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 23:36 Flyingdutchman wrote:On September 22 2012 20:03 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 19:46 SnipedSoul wrote:
Hypothetical: If plants were capable of feeling pain, would you force yourself to starve to death? I have answered that question already in this thread, and no I would not, I want to survive after all . You can scroll through the thread, and you'll find that eating plants directly "kills" less plants then indirectly eating plants by eating animals. But cows can be fed plantmatter that does not yield a lot of nutritional value for humans, or did I miss someone saying how delicious and healthy grass and hay is? I'm aware that cows can also be fed corn and such. Umm that's fine and yes that is possible(even though for factory farms it's not true) , but saving more food for humans is not the argument being made. If the argument is that plants feel pain, then you can't say that grass and hay feel less pain, Therefore, your still "killing" less overall plants by eating your plants directly then consuming the animal that ate them. So according to the argument, well plants "feel" pain too!(which is silly), then the least cruel diet that would let me remain alive would be one where I don't eat animals still. ' Also, just because cows can be fed grass/hay, factory farm animals are fed a pretty ridiculous amount of grains, and random other things. I can't believe how many people are sticking to this stupid plant argument on TL btw, It's pretty shocking how many people have brought it up. The self mutilation comments made me laugh, Not eating meat now = cutting one self?
You're willingly imposing constraints and limitations on your life for strictly moral and ethical reasons. It's not really like cutting yourself, more like scourging.
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On September 23 2012 03:35 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:29 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:25 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:20 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:07 kmillz wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:
[quote]
You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons.
If you actually read the article it also notes at the top:
"Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? It might be a trolling article but it still has valid points that you have yet to refute. I haven't done anything On September 23 2012 02:10 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 02:02 Djzapz wrote:On September 23 2012 01:58 r.Evo wrote:On September 23 2012 01:54 kmillz wrote:
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You're being a fool for ignoring my first sentence (and obviously the parts in the article which state exactly which rules they are referring too), it is specifically targetted at those who choose to be a vegan for ethical reasons (those morally opposed to harming animals if you need me to be even more specific) and those who choose to be vegan because they think it is a superior diet for health reasons.
If you actually read the article it also notes at the top:
"Note: This post is not meant to target those who are vegetarians for religious reasons or those who are vegetarians because they have some chronic disease that doesn’t allow them to eat meat. Instead, I’m targeting every single idiot out there who is a vegetarian for reasons like animal cruelty and health benefits." You're taking an article which uses "LOLOL YOU ALL EAT DEAD HUMANS OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE ALL CANNIBALS" as one of his arguments to point out that a certain group of people are idiots? Cool point. So what's the problem with that? You don't think the statement "Every human is a cannibal because he eats stuff that grew on dead bodies at one point" is a pretty stupid one? Last time I checked you had to eat a human to be a cannibal. That's why we don't call everyone one even though pretty much all molecules in his food have belonged to a living organism at one point. So how come if calling everyone a cannibal is stupid but calling everyone someone who eats dead animals isn't? Please tell me. That's a mess. Seems like people are saying stupid things and I don't know what's going on lol. You sound confused. Quote from the article with "lots of valid points": This past summer, I took a Biology 101 class at a community college to fulfill some general education requirements for my degree. While the class was a complete waste of my time and I pretty much bull-shitted my way through it, I did learn something quite interesting.
I learned about the food web, which is basically description of “who eats who” in the environment.
It goes something like this:
fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what." tl;dr: Even if you're not a cannibal you're technically eating dead humans, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. Which is, sorry, pretty damn stupid. But didn't the guy argue against that silly argument? Which guy? The one in the thread who quoted the article? No. Funny article about why being a vegan for ethical reasons is completely stupid, as well as highlighting why it doesn't make you healthier than non-vegans. The one writing the article? No, it's his reasoning for how it's impossible to not eat meat which means all vegetarians are hypocrites. Also, yeah. The guy talking about troll articles wins. qq. t.t Forget the stupid dead animal shit. Forget the arguement about taste. Even forget the health part. I posted the article because I thought it was funny, the main point I wanted to highlight is this: Do you deny that farming vegetables kills animals? If so, maybe you should read this article about "Why being vegetarian can kill more animals than eating meat" http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/why-a-vegetarian-might-kill-more-animals-than-an-omnivore/Basically what I am saying is that refusing to eat animals or animal products simply is not going to reduce the amount of animals that are being killed. I would argue that the best way to approach "stopping animals from mistreatment" (which seems to be the primary concern of vegans) is to raise awareness and gathering support for a political agenda aimed at stricter regulations on the process through which animals are converted into food, stricter penalties for being cruel or tortorous to animals, etc.. The entire premise of the article you linked talks about vegetarians, and examines the case where a vegetarian replaces their meat protein intake with eggs. Rather more specific than the conclusion you draw from it. I read your argument as "there is a chance that vegetarians/vegans could cause more animal suffering/death than omnivores, therefore the idea of becoming a vegetarian/vegan for ethical reasons is wrong". If that's what you're saying, then I'd have to disagree - I think when it is impossible to predict the outcome of an individual's actions, the intention alone is enough to make the decision reasonable (even if the outcome is the same or even worse). Someone may become a vegan because they intend to reduce animal deaths. Even if they inadvertently increase animal deaths, 1) they cannot possibly know that and 2) if they are ethically comfortable because of the intention then isn't that mission accomplished? I'd liken it to a doctor giving blood transfusions. Obviously the intention is to make someone better, but every now and then he is going to kill someone who was otherwise going to be absolutely fine if he'd done nothing. That doesn't make it useless or harmful to give transfusions.
So basically what you are saying, if a person eats food that comes from animals, that is only ok up until they learns it comes from animals and that eating things coming from animals is wrong, then it must stop eating all animal products until it learns that all non-animal products inadvertently cause animal deaths too, then either the person must not eat anything and die or eat whatever the fuck they want.
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On September 23 2012 05:04 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:00 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 23:36 Flyingdutchman wrote:On September 22 2012 20:03 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 19:46 SnipedSoul wrote:
Hypothetical: If plants were capable of feeling pain, would you force yourself to starve to death? I have answered that question already in this thread, and no I would not, I want to survive after all . You can scroll through the thread, and you'll find that eating plants directly "kills" less plants then indirectly eating plants by eating animals. But cows can be fed plantmatter that does not yield a lot of nutritional value for humans, or did I miss someone saying how delicious and healthy grass and hay is? I'm aware that cows can also be fed corn and such. Umm that's fine and yes that is possible(even though for factory farms it's not true) , but saving more food for humans is not the argument being made. If the argument is that plants feel pain, then you can't say that grass and hay feel less pain, Therefore, your still "killing" less overall plants by eating your plants directly then consuming the animal that ate them. So according to the argument, well plants "feel" pain too!(which is silly), then the least cruel diet that would let me remain alive would be one where I don't eat animals still. ' Also, just because cows can be fed grass/hay, factory farm animals are fed a pretty ridiculous amount of grains, and random other things. I can't believe how many people are sticking to this stupid plant argument on TL btw, It's pretty shocking how many people have brought it up. The self mutilation comments made me laugh, Not eating meat now = cutting one self? You're willingly imposing constraints and limitations on your life for strictly moral and ethical reasons. It's not really like cutting yourself, more like scourging.
It's crazy how happy and content I am with my life, after "Scourging myself" every freaking day, man, maybe we should scourge more people!
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On September 23 2012 05:04 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:00 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 23:36 Flyingdutchman wrote:On September 22 2012 20:03 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 19:46 SnipedSoul wrote:
Hypothetical: If plants were capable of feeling pain, would you force yourself to starve to death? I have answered that question already in this thread, and no I would not, I want to survive after all . You can scroll through the thread, and you'll find that eating plants directly "kills" less plants then indirectly eating plants by eating animals. But cows can be fed plantmatter that does not yield a lot of nutritional value for humans, or did I miss someone saying how delicious and healthy grass and hay is? I'm aware that cows can also be fed corn and such. Umm that's fine and yes that is possible(even though for factory farms it's not true) , but saving more food for humans is not the argument being made. If the argument is that plants feel pain, then you can't say that grass and hay feel less pain, Therefore, your still "killing" less overall plants by eating your plants directly then consuming the animal that ate them. So according to the argument, well plants "feel" pain too!(which is silly), then the least cruel diet that would let me remain alive would be one where I don't eat animals still. ' Also, just because cows can be fed grass/hay, factory farm animals are fed a pretty ridiculous amount of grains, and random other things. I can't believe how many people are sticking to this stupid plant argument on TL btw, It's pretty shocking how many people have brought it up. The self mutilation comments made me laugh, Not eating meat now = cutting one self? You're willingly imposing constraints and limitations on your life for strictly moral and ethical reasons. It's not really like cutting yourself, more like scourging.
You're right. People who don't eat meat would love to eat meat but force them to not do it because of strictly moral and ethical reasons.
Having to restrain myself from punching stupid people in the face out of strictly moral and ethical reasons brings me much more suffering than not eating meat. In fact, I'm actually pretty damn happy with the latter.
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On September 23 2012 05:00 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 23:36 Flyingdutchman wrote:On September 22 2012 20:03 BlueBird. wrote:On September 22 2012 19:46 SnipedSoul wrote:
Hypothetical: If plants were capable of feeling pain, would you force yourself to starve to death? I have answered that question already in this thread, and no I would not, I want to survive after all . You can scroll through the thread, and you'll find that eating plants directly "kills" less plants then indirectly eating plants by eating animals. But cows can be fed plantmatter that does not yield a lot of nutritional value for humans, or did I miss someone saying how delicious and healthy grass and hay is? I'm aware that cows can also be fed corn and such. Umm that's fine and yes that is possible(even though for factory farms it's not true) , but saving more food for humans is not the argument being made. If the argument is that plants feel pain, then you can't say that grass and hay feel less pain, Therefore, your still "killing" less overall plants by eating your plants directly then consuming the animal that ate them. So according to the argument, well plants "feel" pain too!(which is silly), then the least cruel diet that would let me remain alive would be one where I don't eat animals still. ' Also, just because cows can be fed grass/hay, factory farm animals are fed a pretty ridiculous amount of grains, and random other things. I can't believe how many people are sticking to this stupid plant argument on TL btw, It's pretty shocking how many people have brought it up. The self mutilation comments made me laugh, Not eating meat now = cutting one self?
it's brought up constantly because it still holds true. If it's (only) about pain and the ability to suffer vegans should be perfectly fine with eating animals as long as they're treated correctly and don't suffer; e.g. narcotized when being killed + a "normal" life.
Some people in here seem to agree with that, some people think it's even wrong to eat a cow that grew up on a farm, having a "normal" (probably fictional as well because those rarely exist^^) life.
I totally agree it's a shame how animals are treated nowadays and it should change but you can improve that without telling people to stop eating meat in general.
It's not about "producing" animals for the sole purpose of being eaten (some day) either for reasons already brought up.
It's a purely cultural / personal thing without any reasoning behind it besides "i don't want animals to suffer", which again, I agree with, but the approach is just bullshit from my point of view. Of course you can stop eating meat if you think having meat without animal suffering is impossible to begin with and consider any other approach to be utopian.
Edit: Obviously I did not go into reasons like people who have to go vegan for various reasons and don't have an option.
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This thread sported a lot of top end intellectual performances. I went to the whole thread again to save them for other readers who didn't went through the whole thing, but still want to enjoy all the highlights. And here they are:
PS: Some of these thoughts might be trolling, hard to tell if all the posters were actually serious.
Here is my ethical argument:
Eating animals is speciesist. I reject speciesim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism
Indeed what animals society deems acceptable to eat proves the point. Why do some cultures eat dogs and some not? Because some cultures have elevated dogs to companion animal status above other animals. In contrast, farmed animals have been placed at the bottom and slaughtered for food. For the record, I am also again all forms of animal testing.
Speciesism acts in the same way as sexism, racism, or an other -ism. It is enforeced by dominate culture and often operates without explicit thought or knowledge. I reject all forms of discrimation, including that against other species.
This is why I am vegan.
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I bet you've eaten insects before while you're sleeping. Technically you're not a vegan.[/QUOTE]
We are animals, they are animals, we shouldn't slaughter animals. I don't believe we should support human suffering and slavery, so i don't support animal suffering and slavery. I don't believe rape is ok, so i don't support the dairy industry. [/QUOTE]
It's more because of the actual methods used to make those cows "perform". Imagine taking a 8-12 year old girl, pumping her full of medicine that tells her body she's pregnant and then milking her for about 1000% of the amount that would be healthy for a 20 year old to give. After a few years of doing that you say that she's not worth it anymore on an economical level and slaughter her. That's pretty much what we do to cows.
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If you want to go there, sure: please tell me a major difference between a concentration camp and a slaughterhouse besides "humans vs animals". Please keep in mind that "they aren't humans, they are lesser beings, animals" was one of the main "reasons" which made it "morally okay" to make it happen in the first place.[/QUOTE]
HOW can you compare human brain and dog brain? Or any other animal brain, for that matter? Human brain weight around 1.5 kg, thats dozens, hundred times more than animal brains. Noone can say for sure how any animal realizes this world simply because humans are only ones who can think.
There was a chicken who lived a year or two without a head. Look it up, i think there was an article about it in "Times" (somewhere in 1930-s).
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Show me how to eat a carrot without killing it. [/QUOTE]
Being vegan just makes you better than most people.[/QUOTE]
Hypothetically, if we advance as a species and begin to colonize other plantets, what would you say about the following situation:
we happen upon another planet inhabited by sentient 'cave man' - like beings. we know they have consciousness, and we know they feel pain. we can see them torturing and killing one another by the millions.
would you intervene? would you stop them from killing each other senselessly? I would say that it important that we consider the ethics of what everything does, not just ourselves.[/QUOTE]
You can substitute "I eat meat because it's here and I like it and that's all now leave me alone" with "I hate black people because they're everywhere and that's how I live and now leave me alone", exactly the same chain of thought.[/QUOTE]
He has a right to look down on ignorant meat eaters just as i have a right to look down on ignorant racists. There is a right and a wrong answer here, and one person is looking for the truth and the other is closing their mind and glorifying ignorance.
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fox eats rabbit => fox poops into the soil => the living soil then absorbs the poop(which includes the rabbit) => fruit and vegetable plants absorb that exact same soil to grow => humans eat those same fruits and vegetables
This process happens EVERYWHERE in nature.
So even if you’re a vegetarian, you’re technically eating dead animals, albeit in a more indirect liquid form. But last time I checked, vegetarians were all about saving lives no matter what."
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EPT
