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On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. ![[image loading]](http://econintersect.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/frank-li-erotica.png) "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that.
Yeah, I'm sure they're going to win the cost battle 1000 to 1 on their way to taking over the world. Because we all know China has 1000x the population and resources of the rest of the world.
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[QUOTEThe clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game.[/QUOTE]
This is the only real thing I disagree with.
Taiwan is only of intrest to China not America.
We pay attention to Taiwan because of China.
America knows to watch the girl with the knife because it's wiser to watch the knife than to win the board game.
This is my "American" intepertation.
I realize pictures have no real answer- unless the Painter comes out and says the meaning.
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Sigh another China thread degrades into discussing a pissing contest between USA and China. There was such a good discussion about the actual event and underlying reasons earlier...
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On September 17 2012 02:37 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:35 Cubu wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:
TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? What? Why does korea need japan? Economiclly, Korea does ALOT of trading and it's economy is supported largly by Japan. If Korea ever made a power play (I don't think it ever will unless it has the FULL backing and support of China) though all that is under the big "IF" Korea ever unifies- which won't happen in my lifetime. The 2 people have been seperated for too long, cultures too diverse.
China would never accepted a unified korea, it barely stands N korea but it does it as an interested in buffer zones, it enjoys south korea and Japanese imports too much also to bother changing the status quo. People who speculate about china often don't understand quite a bit, first off china is still very largely an agricultural economy about half it's population is still agricultural. China is far from a super power people try to make it out to be, yes it has a large military in numbers but it's airforce, navy and mechanized forces are largely outdated and sparsely equipped. For the most part the CIA's projections put china as a super power militarily in 20 odd years off but that's a long way aways. Further more it will struggle to get 1st world country status with the level of care and quality of living. People look at china's economy in just raw numbers can't see per capatia china is still very far from where it can be. China's command shouldn't bother or care about military matters, they are fine just growing their economy and having people piss over their human rights abuse, if they rapidly expand their military you reach hostility problems and they know that.
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On September 17 2012 01:34 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 01:28 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 01:21 Shady Sands wrote:On September 17 2012 01:16 SayGen wrote:I think something that needs to be said- that Orek sort of mentioned indirectly is "Diplomacy is saying nice doggy while reaching for a big stick." Balance of power = peace When the cost of war outways it's profit there will be peace (unless your not of sound mind of course, there are always extremist). Think I'm wrong. Consider this. Once USA took over the world (Post Cold War) There has never been a World War, and until a major power goes for a large scale power grab there won't be one again. Though USA is being undermined, and likly won't be the big dog for much longer, maybe not even for the remainer of my lifetime--but for now I am enjoying the relative peace. All armed conflicts are being carried out through proxy. All large scale 'War' is economic. The real trick is. How can American slowly back off it's power seat without leaving a massive vaccum. Europe won't pick up the mantle, we've tried again and again but why would they spend money on a military when they got us to do everything for them? I think we should bail on Europe with 90% of our troops, and force Europe to defend it's AoR and take a greater intrest in the ME with the aide of Austrilia (who for whatever reason is sadly overlooked in forgein affairs). Don't get me wrong, I know why the EU won't step up, but would you perfer an Eastern power as lead puppet master or China? China is poised to take over, with more spending in Stealth fighters. https://www.google.com/search?q=China's new stealth plane&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=svpVUNm4B86tygHkoYDQBw&biw=1376&bih=690&sei=tfpVUNexNOOEygHH9YCIAgThey already took the American F22 design and modifed it to their liking, giving them a split tie in Air Supremecy- the 1st since since the cold war America has not held completly world air supremacy. One weapons system doth not air dominance make. China's PLAAF still has a long way to go in operational expertise and air "infrastructure" (refuelers, AWACS, electronic warfare). Europe, esp the EU needs to step up soon. America can't hold forever. How are they supposed to do that with Goldman Sachs screwing with them?
God does not help people. He helps those who help themselves.
Goldman does not screw people. Goldman helps crew those who are already screwing themselves.
"Doing God's work", you see.
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On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry, but this isn't Starcraft.
True but irrelevant since against literally anyone except the U.S. the China would win a traditional war at this moment.
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On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that.
I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities.
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On September 17 2012 02:42 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. Yeah, I'm sure they're going to win the cost battle 1000 to 1 on their way to taking over the world. Because we all know China has 1000x the population and resources of the rest of the world.
Sigh your not seeing the larger picture. I'm trying to get you to understand. When it comes to large battles- China can and will choose to take a higher casuality count if needed to ensure victory. This is a luxery of battle Americans can not afford. We have to win 3:1+. They also have the ability to engage in Modern Warfare as well with their gains in Military technology.
they have a LARGE edge in Cyber technology as well. They stole our F22 deisgn from Lockheed Martin.
They have a large satalite count in space, giving them solid Recon and Information gathering.
don't get me wrong, I am confident US at the present moment would rock China in war. I'm saying don't underestimate China, esp as we continue to decline and they continue to rise. They will overtake us eventually.
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On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities.
Of course the PRC naval admiral is going to try to downplay the strength of the US. That fishing boat would never be able to reach either ship.
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On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities.
I believe that comment was made toward the new US Stleath cruiser, but yes the Carrier could be defeated the same way.
How does a thief break into a house- the backdoor.
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On September 17 2012 02:48 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:37 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 Cubu wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:
TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? What? Why does korea need japan? Economiclly, Korea does ALOT of trading and it's economy is supported largly by Japan. If Korea ever made a power play (I don't think it ever will unless it has the FULL backing and support of China) though all that is under the big "IF" Korea ever unifies- which won't happen in my lifetime. The 2 people have been seperated for too long, cultures too diverse. China would never accepted a unified korea, it barely stands N korea but it does it as an interested in buffer zones, it enjoys south korea and Japanese imports too much also to bother changing the status quo. People who speculate about china often don't understand quite a bit, first off china is still very largely an agricultural economy about half it's population is still agricultural. China is far from a super power people try to make it out to be, yes it has a large military in numbers but it's airforce, navy and mechanized forces are largely outdated and sparsely equipped. For the most part the CIA's projections put china as a super power militarily in 20 odd years off but that's a long way aways. Further more it will struggle to get 1st world country status with the level of care and quality of living. People look at china's economy in just raw numbers can't see per capatia china is still very far from where it can be. China's command shouldn't bother or care about military matters, they are fine just growing their economy and having people piss over their human rights abuse, if they rapidly expand their military you reach hostility problems and they know that.
There's nothing "outdated" about their weapons. They might possess a small number of modern weapons, but everything they're producing are on the same level of or one generation behind U.S. technology. I agree though, China's power right now is a bit exaggerated by some, however it really doesn't matter, all that matters is they have nukes and a traditional army that's not challenged by regional powers.
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On September 17 2012 02:51 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities. Of course the PRC naval admiral is going to try to downplay the strength of the US. That fishing boat would never be able to reach either ship.
What about a bunch of fishing boats all at once?
1000:1 cost ratio win for China.
PS: American commanders do brag to much and rarly downplay their strength.
Bragging about their power is meant to act as a deterent.
Look at present American politics.
Romney: "I will have a military so powerful, no one will dare challenge it"
Peace through strength.
Sadly politics aside we can't afford to have a super military anymore, Our military is on decline. As a member of the Airforce I was offered just recently an early exit from my comission, as part of the Air Force downsizing.
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On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities.
Complete huffing and puffing by the PLAN. The Western Pacific is freaking huge, and to actually find the US 7th Fleet and follow-on forces in that haystack, and get a fishing boat in position, would be a herculean task.
That being said, there are ways to incapacitate the 7th Fleet without striking at the ships themselves. For example, engaging in massive electronic warfare against the satellite links that keep the 7th Fleet linked to the rest of the US defense network, or sabotaging the port facilities during a routine port visit so that the big super-carrier can't leave harbor, etc.
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On September 17 2012 02:53 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:51 Voltaire wrote:On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities. Of course the PRC naval admiral is going to try to downplay the strength of the US. That fishing boat would never be able to reach either ship. What about a bunch of fishing boats all at once? 1000:1 cost ratio win for China.
We'll just get a mothership to use the recall ability.
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Isn't most of America's fleet/army in the Middle East?
Take a look at the map, at China's size vs Japan and their proximity. If China went all out (zerg Japan with a few million soldiers - remember that Japan's military might is constricted by WWII protocols), and quickly subdue Japan, the US will probably not be able to do anything (since Japan as its base is taken over). The US can probably do more if it is a protracted war, but then the situation would be even worst for the region and the world.
Japan: SDF
Military units (from wiki)
The JSDF numbered 239,430 in 2005 with 147,737 in the Ground Self-Defense Force, 44,327 in the Maritime Self-Defense Force, 45,517 in the Air Self-Defense Force, and 1,849 in the Joint Staff Office. Reserves numbered 57,899.[11]
Five armies,
Five maritime districts, and
Three air defense forces
China: PLA
The PLA is the world's largest military force, with approximately 3 million members, and has the world's largest (active) standing army, with approximately 2.25 million members. The PLA comprises five main service branches, consisting of the PLA Ground Force, PLA Navy (PLAN), PLA Air Force (PLAAF), Second Artillery Corps (strategic missile force), and the PLA Reserve Force.
China may not be able to zerg the US, but they CAN zerg Japan. What happens afterwards is rather complex and depressing to contemplate.
E.G, US and other countries lose will to fight and decide to maintain economic situation
vs
continue to fight...
As a resident in SE Asia, the situation is particularly worrying...
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On September 17 2012 02:54 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:50 Xpace wrote:On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. I remember the last time China conducted naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, America's response was to stage their own. The PRC naval admiral claimed that while the United States has vastly superior technology (particularly addressing the presence of the USS Independence and the USS George Washington, a super-carrier), that it only takes a fishing boat full of explosives to incapacitate its maritime capabilities. Complete huffing and puffing by the PLAN. The Western Pacific is freaking huge, and to actually find the US 7th Fleet and follow-on forces in that haystack, and get a fishing boat in position, would be a herculean task. That being said, there are ways to incapacitate the 7th Fleet without striking at the ships themselves. For example, engaging in massive electronic warfare against the satellite links that keep the 7th Fleet linked to the rest of the US defense network, or sabotaging the port facilities during a routine port visit so that the big super-carrier can't leave harbor, etc.
Google:
You can see everyship on the ocean RIGHT NOW in LIVE TIME.
Welcome to 2012 you can't hide Fleet movements anymore.
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On September 17 2012 02:32 Pseudoku wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You're welcome to keep believing that.
Being Chinese I think I'm unbiased and knowledgeable about the situation. If they were truly confident in their naval ability and their economy could sustain outright combat with the japanese, why haven't they taken back the islands with their supposedly invincible military power?
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On September 17 2012 02:51 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:42 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:40 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:37 Azarkon wrote:On September 17 2012 02:35 SayGen wrote:On September 17 2012 02:26 fatfail wrote:On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea? Correct, China cant do shit. Their economy would crumble and their navy is terrible anyways. The commanders are incompetent and the soldiers aren't disciplined. You Sir, are completly wrong, as a fellow countryman I'll try to explain this to you. China holds one of the few economies in the world that are least impacted by global affairs. China contorls China's economy. They make everything they need, and own(not buy) resources around the world that arn't found in China. Their commanders are VERY loyal, and highly trained. Maybe not as much as USA or Japan/EU but to say they are incompetent is FOOLISH. Americans... I'd like to apologise to the TL community- I promise we arn't all arogant, and do support the greater good. Some of us are just a little too full-of-ourselves. The only true thing you said is that China's soliders arn't disiplined. This is true- they pretty much hand them guns and say go. but with a population of 1BILLION+ you don't need disipline you just need them to run and ZERG their prey. For a person who served in the military you sure don't know modern warfare very well. Saying that the Chinese are just going to ZERG their way to victory is... I'm sorry. I guess you missed what a Chinese lead Navial Admiral said about the brand new STEALTH US cruiser. I'm paraphrazing: We wno't bother trying to defeat it's EWSs we will just grab a bunch of small boats with bombs and throw them at the cruiser. We win the cost battle 1000 to 1. They will ZERG. as well as engage in modern warfare techniques. They can and WILL do BOTH. A capability we don't have. China has more men than we do bullets/bombs/rockets Never forget that. Yeah, I'm sure they're going to win the cost battle 1000 to 1 on their way to taking over the world. Because we all know China has 1000x the population and resources of the rest of the world. Sigh your not seeing the larger picture. I'm trying to get you to understand. When it comes to large battles- China can and will choose to take a higher casuality count if needed to ensure victory. This is a luxery of battle Americans can not afford. We have to win 3:1+. They also have the ability to engage in Modern Warfare as well with their gains in Military technology. they have a LARGE edge in Cyber technology as well. They stole our F22 deisgn from Lockheed Martin. They have a large satalite count in space, giving them solid Recon and Information gathering. don't get me wrong, I am confident US at the present moment would rock China in war. I'm saying don't underestimate China, esp as we continue to decline and they continue to rise. They will overtake us eventually.
China is a resource poor country. They are limited by things besides population. China's population also isn't growing that fast - their fertility rate is below that of replacement level, and the one child policy has wrecked their military age population base.
China won't be able to take fights at higher cost ratios for very long. They're able to do so to drive a couple of US carrier groups away from their side of the Pacific, yes, but beyond that they are not capable of taking on the West, and in my opinion won't ever be able to take on the West.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 17 2012 02:23 Xpace wrote:I remember seeing this painting in a French art magazine when I was living in Toronto back in 2006, by an expatriate Chinese in Canada. Titled "2008 Beijing", in commemoration of the 2008 Summer Olympic games held in Beijing, the painting was chock full of imagery and hidden meanings underneath the art. Many people, especially Chinese-Canadians and Chinese-Americans found it to be an excellent interpretation of the political situation in the Far East, particularly from a Chinese perspective. "2008 Beijing" by Liu Yi Firstly, the girl wearing a traditional article of Chinese lingerie with her hand in a fruit bowl represents Taiwan. The four mahjong players also represent countries – America faces the viewer, and opposite America is China. To the right, the reclining girl is Russia, and to the left, naked and scrutinising her tiles, is Japan. The image depicts the situation facing Taiwan, but Taiwan herself is not at the table. Only the four players of America, China, Japan and Russia will determine the outcome of this game. The skies beyond the window are dark and unsettled, as is the current situation. The clothing the four girls at the table are wearing expresses their respective strengths. America is in a strong position being fully clothed, and confidently watches Taiwan for a chance to strike without being overly concerned about the state of the game. Russia lies languidly with one leg resting on America, and an arm outstretched to China, stealthily assisting China with her concealed tiles. But Russia has no real interest in Taiwan, and her tiles are not strong. She is only interested in exploiting the Taiwan situation to her advantage, sympathising with America whilst selling weapons to China. China herself is half-naked, much of her body and clothing obscured from view by the table, preventing anyone from seeing how strong she is. One of her tiles is “East,” representing the DF-31 “East Wind” long range missile (ICBM). China also keeps some of her tiles hidden behind her, ready for any change in the game. Just how strong she really is, nobody knows. On the left, the naked girl is Japan. She has no clothes at all – she is the weakest of the four. She scrutinizes her tiles intently, completely oblivious to the artful tricks the other players are employing. Japan only conceives of the Taiwan issue in terms of how she can gain regional power – she is blind to the global aspect of the game. Whilst she may have a good hand, little does she realize the game will not be won through tiles alone. On China’s shoulder is a tattoo – the Fenghuang, or “Chinese phoenix.” This signifies the fact that in China traditional culture runs only skin deep – she is otherwise just the same as the west. On the contrary, it is Taiwan, with her traditional attire, who is the real heir to Chinese culture. Taiwan holds a fruit knife, but it is of no use in a game of mahjong and she cannot bring it to bear. All she can do is hold onto her fruit as the game plays out. This is probably off-topic when discussing about the issue of the Chinese riots, but after reading several posts arguing about America, Japan and China's position in the Far East, especially those with TL ID's from China saying "fuck Japan" and those from Japan saying "history is history, move on", I couldn't fathom how either side can't seem to look past emotions, or whatever the hell is motivating them to spout such ignorant nonsense. TL;DR: China can't do shit to Japan. They're not in a position to do whatever they want, at least not yet - it's in their best interests to keep things 'cool'. They need Japan. Korea needs Japan. Both countries (the people) hate Japan, but the 1% knows what's up. America's too smart to get their hands dirty, it's not in their best interests to piss off China, especially when it's Japan that's the target - it's not like the Chinese are preparing to invade Japan. Japan is the most insignificant of the three, they have no muscles to flex, yet their overinflated pride doesn't exactly allow them to concede, and even if they do, will that really quell the anti-Japanese sentiment in China/Korea?
That's just genius.
As long as war is the worse option than any other alternatives, it will not happpen. China had been the super power of the far east for the longest time. Japan took over only for the last 150 years or so. China is coming back to where it belongs. I wouldn't be surprised if China was fully clothed in "2030 Beijing" but China wouldn't be facing the viewer even then. Japan... would be still playing the game oblivious to what's going on outside the game.
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On September 17 2012 02:57 Immutant wrote:
Isn't most of America's fleet/army in the Middle East?
Take a look at the map, at China's size vs Japan and their proximity. If China went all out (zerg Japan with a few million soldiers - remember that Japan's military might is constricted by WWII protocols), and quickly subdue Japan, the US will probably not be able to do anything (since Japan as its base is taken over).
Japan: SDF
Military units (from wiki)
The JSDF numbered 239,430 in 2005 with 147,737 in the Ground Self-Defense Force, 44,327 in the Maritime Self-Defense Force, 45,517 in the Air Self-Defense Force, and 1,849 in the Joint Staff Office. Reserves numbered 57,899.[11]
Five armies,
Five maritime districts, and
Three air defense forces
China: PLA
The PLA is the world's largest military force, with approximately 3 million members, and has the world's largest (active) standing army, with approximately 2.25 million members. The PLA comprises five main service branches, consisting of the PLA Ground Force, PLA Navy (PLAN), PLA Air Force (PLAAF), Second Artillery Corps (strategic missile force), and the PLA Reserve Force.
China may not be able to zerg the US, but they CAN zerg Japan. What happens afterwards is rather complex and depressing to contemplate.
The US can probably do more if it is a protracted war, but then the situation would be even worst for the region and the world.
As a resident in SE Asia, the situation is particularly worrying...
Finally somone who gets it. spot on.
The ME has a small portion of our forces, most of which would be withdrawn if it was really NEEDED.
Also only our EASTERN fleet is in the ME region. Our pacific fleet is right where it needs to be.
Also the size of Japan's army isn't the worry. We limit the TYPE OF ARMS they can yield.
Certain missille types are illegal for them to possess. Missilles that could help defend them if China enters the sea of Japan.
Fire from the mainland, would help slow/weaken the Chinese amphibious assault
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EPT
