Hong Kong protests of "National Education" - Page 3

On September 06 2012 20:09 epicanthic wrote:

You're right, there is not such thing as truly objectively sound history, but there's value in having information as objective as possible, isn't there? History is meant to be objectively seen and interpreted by the recipient - it's only been manipulated by both individuals and governments to be used for their own agendas, which in this case is to ensure favorable unity with China. Arguing that history shouldn't be objective just because it generally isn't is not exactly solid.

Yes, it is hard to avoid other opinions of what happened in China, but those opinions aren't being forced upon us. We don't have to go on wikipedia or google to see what really happened, we do so out of choice. In this case however, there will be no choice - and that is what is the problem here.

Imagine this situation: Hong Kong is forced to learn about China from information that will obviously be entirely pro-China. We then get handed over to China in 2047 and then we suddenly fall under the same censorship laws - censoring of the media, literature, and of the internet, thanks to the Great Firewall of China and direct government involvement in forums and search engines. Where then can we learn about the truth? Nowhere. That's where this all leads to. And don't claim it won't happen, it's still happening within China as I type this very sentence.

The thing is, the 1997 handover wasn't actually a full transfer of sovereignty, it was just the creation of an SAR, to be left alone for 50 years. Laws were created in tandem with the British to ensure continued economic and social freedom. The situation here is different; we're going to be handed back to China and our current SAR laws are going to be scrapped in favor of the Chinese government's, because we'll officially, legally, be a part of China. Our economy will change. China isn't even on the list of the top 30 in the Index of Economic Freedom. We don't like government intervention in our economy; it's what's made us so successful. When we rejoin, shit will hit the regulatory fan, businesses will fall under the laws and regulations of the Chinese government. Like I said, the situation is different - instead of heading to an era of economic uncertainty, we're headed towards an era of economic certainty; certain in terms of the fact that businesses are not going to be able to conduct business in the way they have been for the past century, free and (mostly) government free.

This is news that has been turned into opposition to such news, that's it. I don't see any witch-hunting taking place, nor any sensationalism. It's just our opinion of what is going to happen, supported with evidence so gracious given by China's lack of freedom and legacy of propaganda and censorship, both historical and ongoing.

And to clarify, I'd love for there to be a day where the people from both Hong Kong and China can get along. It's just that it's impossible given the inevitability of assimilation,with a government that is absolutely fucking batshit insane. The people are great, everyone living in China are amazing individuals, but the Chinese government itself can go fuck itself (and then censor it out!). No offense to the people, plenty of offense to the government.

On September 06 2012 19:26 Xpace wrote:
China needs to back the fuck off. Nobody wants them here.

I'm sick of China calling us "British dogs", who have lost "our sense of what it means to be Chinese", yet at the same time every mainlander I know wants a piece of Hong Kong (for reference, mainlander is a Chinese from China). They buy tons of property from their "government-approved spending money", essentially turning the city into their own game of monopoly, without caring about what makes Hong Kong the city that it is.

If China really sees us as "paperdoll Chinese" (quoted from CCTV), then why are there hundreds of women crossing our border everyday, waiting to give birth so their children can have HONG KONG PASSPORTS? Why do so many mainland families want to move to Hong Kong, even today? Mind you, we're talking about the RICH and the ELITE families, the 1% (or in China, the 0.001%).

I haven't seen a single star in the sky for over 10 years in Hong Kong because of pollution from China. I haven't gone one day outside without seeing a mainlander spit in the street, or pick his nose and wipe it on bus/train railings. I haven't had one lunch or dinner at a restaurant where there's a mainlander and he or she isn't yelling over our table when he's on the freakin' phone. I haven't been able to shop at a EUROPEAN BRAND store without having to line up because all these mainlanders come to Hong Kong to spend all their dirty money. Sorry, but there's no way you can convince that the mainlanders I see every single fucking day aren't barbaric. They have no respect for people around them, they are uneducated, they have no shame, no tolerance, no common manners (like putting your hand over your mouth when you cough or sneeze), they don't follow public order whatsoever.

I challenge anyone who doesn't believe me to spend ONE day in Hong Kong, and you will see what I mean. I've had friends from all over the world (Africa excluded :\) and when they visit, they all say the same thing. "Hong Kong is a class A world city, like London, Paris, but the mainlanders are really fucking things up".

On September 06 2012 19:49 ETisME wrote:


That's arguable. Many of the people are wanting British sovereignty ONLY because there are recent political scandles and the media are going all crazy about it. But in fact, when we were under British goverence, it was really bad as well but we didn't have that much of a concern simply because we had a great growth in economy.

The main reason why so many Hong Kong people are missing the old times are mainly due to the:
economic environment:
Hong Kong was extremely fast growing, where if you are willing to put an effort, you will be successful (except you are extremely not likely to be as successful as the foreigners). Unlike nowadays where uni grads can barely find any jobs, not to mention land price etcetc

Hong Kong recent years has more Chinese tourists and immigration coming in and some are living on the unemployment benefits, or posing some serious poor reputation for Chinese people (such as letting the Kids shitting in front of a shop in one of the luxury shopping centre in Hong Kong)
other events such as rushing borders to born in Hong Kong region for citizenships, buying off all the milk powder because China brand had problem

I can clearly say the British colonization isn't all good.
The wealth that generated were mainly benefiting the british who lived in Hong Kong at the time.
There were lots of briding going on as well, especially within the police force (My granddad worked there, but he wouldn't take brides and eventually got kicked out)

And actually quite a lot of Hong Kong people are not aware of (or choose not to be awared of) the fact that the economy in Hong Kong is strong during the GFC is mainly due to its connection to China. Now that Chinese economy is slowing down and transforming (no longer only cheap manufacture focused) and price level rising, we are suffering from the higher living cost and we start to blame on China lol

Are you serious? HK is highly dependent on mainland China already and the port of HK is losing the battle against the fast growing ports everywhere in mainland. Yes, HK is rich and has a strong economy but that empty threat of yours is not going to scare anyone.

First off, you are not disagreeing with me, you are a SAR just like Macao. And tell me about losing identity, have you heard about people in Shanghai trying to preserve their language? You are not alone in losing your language and identity. "We" can't change it and neither can you. C'est la vie.

That's coming from both sides. I've spent an exchange semester in HK and got quite a lot of flak for being from mainland, professors were making fun of "China" (HK is part of it but that they would not acknowledge) and Putonghua was not very welcomed by people. Likewise I met many nice and helpful people who treated me as a person.

On September 06 2012 20:16 alffla wrote:
im so sad about the situation here in hong kong ..watching our little city slowly fall apart to the chinese communist party is terrible

On September 06 2012 20:09 epicanthic wrote:

The people are great, everyone living in China are amazing individuals, but the Chinese government itself can go fuck itself (and then censor it out!). No offense to the people, plenty of offense to the government.

On September 06 2012 18:55 redviper wrote:


You say colonial western system like its a good thing. As if colonialism was some gift from the great Brits. You know what? I hope China fucking crushes the protests from these faux fucking Brits. There isn't a country or culture in the world more scummy than the British and if it will take a massive act of oppression to destroy the British influence in a region, its completely worth it.

On September 06 2012 20:45 shadymmj wrote:


I beg to differ, I encounter a great many mainlanders who are rude, loud, lacking in social graces, boorish, tasteless, ignorant, and see the need to wear brand name clothing head-to-toe that shove logos in your face. Obviously not all of them are like this, I have a couple of mainland friends they are very decent people (although hardly average - they're more bohemian folks), but there are so many of the former that they tend to eclipse the latter.

On September 06 2012 20:45 shadymmj wrote:


I beg to differ, I encounter a great many mainlanders who are rude, loud, lacking in social graces, boorish, tasteless, ignorant, and see the need to wear brand name clothing head-to-toe that shove logos in your face. Obviously not all of them are like this, I have a couple of mainland friends they are very decent people (although hardly average - they're more bohemian folks), but there are so many of the former that they tend to eclipse the latter.

On September 06 2012 20:35 Shady Sands wrote:


Dude chill the fuck out. You think New Yorkers don't feel the same way about the denizens of the Bronx? Do they stage protests telling the government of New York to kick out all the Bronx kids off Manhattan island so they can enjoy Central Park without having to deal with anyone not of a socioeconomic status different from them? Do you think a New Yorker gets pissed when a rich Texas oilman buys up luxury penthouses in triplicate?

And to flip your rant back on its head:

I haven't seen one white-collar Hong Konger that doesn't somehow profit off of the backs of Chinese sweatshops. I haven't seen one Hong Konger who walks doesn't wear Prada eyeglasses or talk on their iCon of Steve Jobs worship. I haven't gone one single day without seeing a Hong Konger complain about having to learn Mandarin, or scream high-pitched Canto at their subordinates for the slightest typo on page 34 of a 120 slide deck and then go on to smile at me, the client, and pretend that I didn't just see what happened. I have never been able to walk into a mall and talk in Mandarin in peace, because when I do, Hong Kong salesladies swarm me trying to sell everything from Hugo Boss neckties to Bottega Veneta bags to entire overpriced apartments which I have no interest in buying. I haven't been able to walk on the right side of a Hong Kong street without tripping over some 50 year old Hong Kong lady in half an inch of makeup, and who's wearing a Burberry jacket in spite of it being 90 fucking degrees and 85% humidity, stabbing her pink parasol into my eyes because she's so short. I haven't been able to head into a club in LKF without some guy decked in Triad tattoos offering me and my date MDMA pills. And I haven't ever dated a Hong Kong girl who sleeps in anything less stylish than an Armani t-shirt.

I could go on, but I won't, since stereotypes aren't just stupid, they make you stupid, even if you came out of one of those overpriced Hong Kong private schools with a three-letter acronym and make a living laundering money for those rich mainlanders you profess to hate so much.

On September 06 2012 19:31 andyrau wrote:

western colonialism, and specifically British colonialism, has done nothing but good for the world

out of all the nations to come from the Commonwealth/under British colonization, the only major country to falter has been Zimbabwe.

Canada, South Africa, India, and Malaysia/Singapore are all major economic powers, but the British didn't directly craft them into the financial strongholds they are today. Because all of these nations retained or modeled off their British-influenced educational, financial, judicial, and legislative systems, they were able to develop their nation well after they'd left the British sphere of influence.

The foundations that the British gave these nations is nothing to scoff at when you consider nations that have no official ties to the Commonwealth, but draw heavily from British influences such as the United States and Hong Kong, are central pillars of economy and culture in their respective parts of the world. This is why your blind hatred has no place, and why it's especially important for citizens in HK to recognize that an underlying portion in their formula for continued prosperity is being forcefully altered.

from what I hear, people are wary of the implications national education might carry, and that a milder form of the devastating Cultural Revolution might take place again. For a lot of citizens, excessive PRC influence or impression has been something that they've dreaded ever since the 1997 reunification. A lot of them would have preferred to stay under British sovereignty.

On September 06 2012 20:41 yandere991 wrote:
I also find it interesting that whilst mainlanders act rather uncivilized in HK (that I am sad to admit) it's the reverse once both parties travel overseas. From my experience at Uni and work it's the HKers screaming their Cantonese across campus and talking like a fucking sound blaster in the computer labs, the only other race that even approaches this is the Koreans. Also they always open their food which stink the rooms/trains up without any regard to the other occupants. Lastly I can't seem to talk with a HKer without the conversation degenerating into money (ffs for the last time no one cares you got a shitty accounting job at a big4 firm, also no one cares or believes you will make partner before 30 at GS and own a lambo)

It's funny how most of the shit that HKers accuse mainlanders of (greed, obnoxious loud voice, doing shit without consideration for others) they do themselves when their in another country.

Sorry just like Xpace I had to get that off my chest. The behavior of HKers in Oz makes me rage sometimes. No idea why mainlander migrants generally stay below the radar, maybe because they perceive themselves as second class or not the top dogs anymore...beats me.

On September 06 2012 20:50 haduken wrote:


Maybe it's just that the people who flock there are the ones with cash to splash. Recently rich aren't known for their sophistication don't matter where they come from.

On September 06 2012 21:04 Xpace wrote:


It's completely justifiable that you think that way. And you're probably right on most of what you said. It makes absolute sense.

The people from China I've seen in NYC stay below the radar because they KNOW they're not liked. They're in a foreign country where suddenly, they have full access to the Internet. Suddenly, they can speak their mind. They can criticize the environment around them. They can speak up and share their ideas about government and politics. It's a scary world for someone who's used to the Chinese regime back home. There are lots of videos on YouTube of North Koreans who have escaped their country (though mainly produced by South Koreans, so expect the typical bias and sob story to make the North look bad), and I see the same thing.

As for the Hong Kongers, again I completely understand. They grew up thinking they're the 'elite'. They grew up being told that the huge continental landmass above them are full of barbarians, while they're "better". Look at Shady Sand's post, his anger towards my post is completely justified, but what he doesn't realize is that what I said is SO COMMONPLACE. Again, I challenge anyone who doesn't think so, whether you're from Europe or America, to spend one day in Hong Kong and deny me what I just said. I've seen tons of Hong Kongers on student visas wearing nothing but brand clothes walking around NY, thinking they're all cool and shit, because that's the environment they grew up in. They have the NEED to show off, they have the NEED to feel elitist. They NEED to distinguish themselves from China.

On September 06 2012 20:45 shadymmj wrote:


I beg to differ, I encounter a great many mainlanders who are rude, loud, lacking in social graces, boorish, tasteless, ignorant, and see the need to wear brand name clothing head-to-toe that shove logos in your face. Obviously not all of them are like this, I have a couple of mainland friends they are very decent people (although hardly average - they're more bohemian folks), but there are so many of the former that they tend to eclipse the latter.

On September 06 2012 20:45 shadymmj wrote:


I beg to differ, I encounter a great many mainlanders who are rude, loud, lacking in social graces, boorish, tasteless, ignorant, and see the need to wear brand name clothing head-to-toe that shove logos in your face. Obviously not all of them are like this, I have a couple of mainland friends they are very decent people (although hardly average - they're more bohemian folks), but there are so many of the former that they tend to eclipse the latter.

On September 06 2012 20:56 Shady Sands wrote:
Whoa there. From 1857 to 1949, the main financial center in East Asia was not straitlaced, neo-Victorian Hong Kong, but mongrel, internationalized, utterly amoral Shanghai. It was only after 1949 that Hong Kong became, first, a manufacturing center (due to the influx of cheap refugee labor, and even then it was an also-ran to Taiwan); and then finally only after 1978 did the rise of the Chinese manufacturing enable Hong Kong to vault into position as a center of global finance. Hong Kong's rise has very little to do with its institutional history, and very much to do with the fact that it's the only place the West and the Chinese Communist Party both felt comfortable doing business.

On September 06 2012 21:07 Shady Sands wrote:

If you feel like you need to wear brand names to cover up an ethnicity because you think either one of them can define how other people view you, then your identity must be shallow indeed