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Active: 1768 users

Hong Kong protests of "National Education"

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Gnial
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada907 Posts
September 06 2012 09:01 GMT
#1
Hello TL,

In 1997 the British handed control of Hong Kong back to China, marking the end of British rule after more than 150 years. In accordance with the One Country, Two Systems principle agreed between the United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China, the socialist system of People's Republic of China would not be practiced in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years.

Everything you would want to know about this history can be found here: Wikipedia page

Naturally, this has lead to some insecurity amongst Hong Kong residents that they may lose many of the democratic and other benefits that they are accustomed to. There is a great sensitivity amongst the public here that has risen to the surface in recent months. The Chief Executive elections held earlier this year were a catalyst for protests, as there is fear that pro-China (ie. non-pro-Democracy) leadership in the country will begin infringing on the rights and benefits that people have become accustomed to.

Random article about this:
+ Show Spoiler +
Article link

Thousands of pro-democracy activists filled Hong Kong’s streets over the weekend, adding momentum – and no small amount of vitriol – to the most colorful political contest the city has ever seen.

“This is the most exciting election that’s ever occurred in Greater China, outside Taiwan,” says Richard Cullen, visiting law professor at the University of Hong Kong.

“Election” is a bit of a misnomer, as Hong Kong’s future chief executive will in fact be chosen on March 25 by a so-called election committee — a 1,200-member group dominated by pro-Beijing political and business elites. Although China has promised that Hong Kongers will have universal suffrage beginning in 2017, the government hasn’t offered a roadmap for what that will look like.

Brandishing yellow “People Power” banners, helium balloons and signs opposing the “small-circle” nature of the city’s elections, thousands of protesters surged into the city’s Chater Garden on Sunday afternoon after marching from Causeway Bay in an event sponsored by People Power, a pro-democratic coalition. Police estimated that 3,200 people protested.

“Everyone elected under this system is cursed,” said Vincent Cheung, an information-technology professional who turned out on Sunday to show his support for universal suffrage. “They will not be able to accomplish anything,” he says, because “they are only elected by a group of privileged people and are just representing the interests of those small groups.”

Hong Kong Chief Executive Donald Tsang also found himself in the crosshairs, with protesters demanding his resignation over scandals that revealed he had accepted favors from local tycoons, including luxury yacht rides. Sunday in Charter Garden, protesters chanted antigovernment slogans and tossed fistfuls of fake paper banknotes — an offensive gesture suggesting that Mr. Tsang and other government officials’ souls are destined for the underworld.

One local writer and activist, Wong Yeung-Tat, waved an upright paper effigy of Mr. Tsang, so that protesters could “burn it and send him to hell,” he said.

“He should step down and go to hell,” he said. “He destroyed Hong Kong’s values and he needs to apologize for giving advantages to big businessmen.”

Mr. Tsang, who is under investigation by the city’s Independent Commission Against Corruption, is scheduled to retire from office this June.

In the meantime, the candidates vying to replace Mr. Tsang “just represent the election committee’s 1,200 people, not us,” says Mr. Cheung. “We want a real election, not a fake one.”

While Hong Kong lacks the popular vote, fierce public outcry against Beijing’s originally favored candidate — local business favorite Henry Tang — has nonetheless managed to clip the one-time front-runner’s wings, following a spate of scandals that left his approval ratings hovering around 16%.

In the coming weeks before March 25, there will still be “a lot of turbulence, a lot of uncertainty,” says Regina Ip, a Legislative Council member and former secretary for security whose bid to join the chief executive race fell short of the needed nominations last week. “This small-circle election is not proceeding according to script.”


With all this in mind, it was not surprising that it upset people when the Government of Hong Kong announced that they were planning to impose a "National Studies" curriculum. This would not be the biggest deal if it were a 1 year course - but it is a grade 2 to grade 12 requirement.

The two sides of the coin are as follows:

Hong Kong residents: This is Chinese propaganda. They are poisoning the minds of our children.

Hong Kong government: Hong Kong is part of China now - it only makes sense that Hong Kong citizens learn about China and learn to feel pride for Chinese accomplishments.

This has lead to protests and hunger strikes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Article link

Hong Kong protest over school 'brainwashing' by China

Thousands of protesters surrounded Hong Kong's government headquarters on Monday over a plan to introduce a pro-China school curriculum that they describe as an attempt to brainwash students.

[image loading]

Chanting "No to brainwashing education. Withdraw national education", some 8000 people denounced a Hong Kong government-funded booklet entitled "The China Model" they say glorifies China's single Communist party rule while glossing over more brutal aspects of its rule and political controversies.

One hunger striker was taken away on a stretcher on the third straight day of protests after fasting for more than 40 hours.

The protests represent a challenge for Hong Kong's new pro-Beijing leader Leung Chun-ying, who took office in July, and who has come under pressure for policies that have highlighted underlying tensions as the financial hub becomes increasingly intertwined, economically and socially, with China.

Polls suggest Hong Kong public distrust towards China is at a record high some 15 years after the former British colony reverted to Chinese rule in 1997, with many fearing Beijing's hand encroaching increasingly into the city's cherished freedoms and political affairs.

Many of the protesters were young students who flocked to the demonstrations straight after their first day back at school, some heckling Leung to scrap the scheme or step down.


The most recent development, and the one which has spurned me to create this topic, is that University students are planning to mass protest the curriculum change. It was just announced on the news that the Chinese University of Hong Kong students unions/bodies are the first to officially agree to protest. I do not know where an english article is.

I am from Canada, where student protests recently lasted for many months in Quebec causing the cancellation of the school year, and I am recently arrived in Hong Kong to study at the Chinese University of Hong Kong on exchange. I have no real interest in this protest, and am worried that if it escalates to the same level that the Quebec protests did, this could compromise my ability to take classes while I am here, and ultimately force me to take another year of school in Canada as I will not have the exchange credits I need.

Does anyone know what the heck is going on?
Is the position of Hong Kong residents legitimate enough to potentially escalate to serious student protests?
Could class cancellation ever be on the table, or would the government rather let the protesters fail their classes?

Any insight people have would be awesome.
1, eh? 2, eh? 3, eh?
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
September 06 2012 09:12 GMT
#2
All I know is:
-People from Hong Kong dont seemt to like the rest of China that much (you prolly figured that out as well)
-China isn't exactly known for political subtlety, and if I recall right they had no problem with enforcing rule upon Hong Kong before.

So that leads me to conclude: bad luck Hong Kong
Ryhzuo
Profile Joined November 2011
New Zealand198 Posts
September 06 2012 09:17 GMT
#3
Hong Kong for me as always been a sort of exemplar of what China may look like decades down the line with a couple of steps in the right direction. Horrifying to think that the reverse process may be occurring. As a chinese who spend most of his grade school in China, I can honestly say that the amount of brainwashing that goes on in the classroom is... well, unsavory.
zdfgucker
Profile Joined August 2011
China594 Posts
September 06 2012 09:18 GMT
#4
There have been many tensions, with Beijing enforcing Putonghua, so Hongkongers protest to keep Guandonghua; etc. These protests won't change anything, HK is part of China and won't be SAR forever.
fLDm
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43534 Posts
September 06 2012 09:18 GMT
#5
They're in the unfortunate position of having sovereignty in their state essentially handed over to a foreign nation with a totalitarian government. They're fucked.
They're right to protest, their history is one of a liberal colonial western system and being told they need to learn to conform with the antithesis of that is horrible.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gnial
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada907 Posts
September 06 2012 09:18 GMT
#6
On September 06 2012 18:12 B.I.G. wrote:
All I know is:
-People from Hong Kong dont seemt to like the rest of China that much (you prolly figured that out as well)
-China isn't exactly known for political subtlety, and if I recall right they had no problem with enforcing rule upon Hong Kong before.

So that leads me to conclude: bad luck Hong Kong


If that is the case, do you have any insight into whether students are willing to protest this seriously? I would imagine that since CUHK is so challenging to get admitted to, and since the culture is very academically oriented, that the student protests either a) won't pick up much steam, or b) won't last that long.

Is that a fair assessment?
1, eh? 2, eh? 3, eh?
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
September 06 2012 09:24 GMT
#7
my parents were from hong kong but i know nothing about it other than its really hot and sars started there
hong kong fighting ^.^
@KawaiiRiceLighT
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
September 06 2012 09:24 GMT
#8
On September 06 2012 18:18 KwarK wrote:
They're in the unfortunate position of having sovereignty in their state essentially handed over to a foreign nation with a totalitarian government. They're fucked.
They're right to protest, their history is one of a liberal colonial western system and being told they need to learn to conform with the antithesis of that is horrible.


A "foreign nation"? That's certainly a British way of looking at it lol. I don't support the HK government's decision but "handed back" would be a lot more accurate than "handed over" in this case.
Logic is Overrated
Gnial
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada907 Posts
September 06 2012 09:28 GMT
#9
On September 06 2012 18:24 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 18:18 KwarK wrote:
They're in the unfortunate position of having sovereignty in their state essentially handed over to a foreign nation with a totalitarian government. They're fucked.
They're right to protest, their history is one of a liberal colonial western system and being told they need to learn to conform with the antithesis of that is horrible.


A "foreign nation"? That's certainly a British way of looking at it lol. I don't support the HK government's decision but "handed back" would be a lot more accurate than "handed over" in this case.


Hey, none of this B.S. That debate was resolved 15 years ago.
1, eh? 2, eh? 3, eh?
epicanthic
Profile Joined July 2011
Hong Kong295 Posts
September 06 2012 09:33 GMT
#10
Yeah, we're fucked. Thankfully we can still do this and not have to worry about tanks rolling us over...yet.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
September 06 2012 09:37 GMT
#11
Hmm, Let Hong Kong be Hong Kong. Killing the Chicken to get the egg...
The only value Hong Kong has for China is that it's not a typical Chinese city.
Rillanon.au
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4742 Posts
September 06 2012 09:44 GMT
#12
Thats not a valuable thing for Chinese, they value conformity above all else. It pains them to see, something "theirs" to be so different. Its like a cancer You know, it might spread.

And Honk-Kong was barren low populted island when British took over, look what it is now.
Pathetic Greta hater.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43534 Posts
September 06 2012 09:45 GMT
#13
On September 06 2012 18:24 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 18:18 KwarK wrote:
They're in the unfortunate position of having sovereignty in their state essentially handed over to a foreign nation with a totalitarian government. They're fucked.
They're right to protest, their history is one of a liberal colonial western system and being told they need to learn to conform with the antithesis of that is horrible.


A "foreign nation"? That's certainly a British way of looking at it lol. I don't support the HK government's decision but "handed back" would be a lot more accurate than "handed over" in this case.

It's been one hundred and fifty years. China today would be unrecognisable to the China that HK was previously a part of. I don't dispute that the initial seizure was an illegitimate act of imperialism and I have no desire to defend the 19th Century British record in China. However the people for whom it would be "handing back" are long dead, as is the China they would be "handing back" to. My concern is with the people alive today for whom modern China is an alien system.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
September 06 2012 09:48 GMT
#14
Hey OP what is your opinion on what is happening in Quebec? IMHO the protest is unnecessary. Quebec have the lowest tuition rate in all the province of Canada - even after the tuition hike. And it is like $1000~ increase over the course of 4 year. Instead of getting a job to pay for the thing they want, they decide to protest and complain unfair. The fun thing is some of them claim they're not spoil brat because they protesting in RL and not on the internet. Oh their stupidity...
redviper
Profile Joined May 2010
Pakistan2333 Posts
September 06 2012 09:55 GMT
#15
On September 06 2012 18:18 KwarK wrote:
They're in the unfortunate position of having sovereignty in their state essentially handed over to a foreign nation with a totalitarian government. They're fucked.
They're right to protest, their history is one of a liberal colonial western system and being told they need to learn to conform with the antithesis of that is horrible.


You say colonial western system like its a good thing. As if colonialism was some gift from the great Brits. You know what? I hope China fucking crushes the protests from these faux fucking Brits. There isn't a country or culture in the world more scummy than the British and if it will take a massive act of oppression to destroy the British influence in a region, its completely worth it.



User was warned for this post
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12680 Posts
September 06 2012 10:03 GMT
#16
the main concern about it at the moment is that the government set up a 'model' textbook guideline for the schools to follow.
Now since HK education doesn't really promote any free thinking, so this is especially worrying since the debatable areas will be just stated as facts.

Some people think this event means that we aren't proud/ready to be part of China yet, but the way I see it is that we just don't want our independance to be affected by these propaganda and we want us to accept the Chinese nationality by studying the 'real' history

The protest group mainly hoping to change some of the points in that guideline books.
government won't back down and forcefully to put forth this program, and so parents etc are extremely angry about it and now they want a full cancellation of this program rather than reeditting it

Not all against this program are pro-uk colonialism though (one major hong kong TV channel labeled the pro group as constructive party and those against, the destroyer who wants nothing but chaos in Hong Kong to show China cannot rule Hong Kong well)
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
epicanthic
Profile Joined July 2011
Hong Kong295 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 12:22:50
September 06 2012 10:07 GMT
#17
On September 06 2012 18:01 Gnial wrote:
Is the position of Hong Kong residents legitimate enough to potentially escalate to serious student protests?
Could class cancellation ever be on the table, or would the government rather let the protesters fail their classes?

Any insight people have would be awesome.

It's definitely a legitimite concern. Encouraging people to understand and appreciate your country is one thing, but forcing them to do so is something else entirely, especially if the curriculum is decided by the country, and not individual education boards. I mean, I completely understand where China's coming from, but you can't force acceptance of your history and culture, the history of which is already highly controversial (I mean seriously, the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward completely fucked the country over, both culturally and economically). They already stated that the curriculum is meant to make people appreciate China; that already implies that the material's going to be heavily biased towards favoring China and less towards actual facts, i.e. nationalistic brainwashing.

Sadly, we don't have any power over what out own government does whatsoever, both due to the fact that our government's already in China's pocket and the fact that we're going to lose our sovereignty in 2047 anyway. China's basically got us by the balls.

However, most crucially, China wants Hong Kong due to it's vast economic value; if they fuck us over too much, we're just going to mass exodus the fuck out of here and leave the place to rot. Stability is key in ensuring that HK stays economically beneficial, so (hopefully) they'll try and change their current plan.

On September 06 2012 18:18 zdfgucker wrote:
There have been many tensions, with Beijing enforcing Putonghua, so Hongkongers protest to keep Guandonghua; etc. These protests won't change anything, HK is part of China and won't be SAR forever.

Incorrect, Hong Kong is a soverign (though arguable, considering that our politicians are basically China's bitches) nation, as was agreed by both Britain and China until 2047. It's a cultural issue; even when we join back with you guys, we won't be 'part' of China, because we don't want to assimilate and lose our identities. Saying that the protests won't change anything is true, but having the attitude that we're part of China period is what's causing the tension in the first place.

You guys threw away Hong Kong to the British because you thought we were a valueless fishing village - a "barren rock" - , and we developed it together with the British to make it one of the freest and most successful economies in the world. Now you guys want us back because you want not just a piece of the pie, but the entire thing, and expect us to sacrifice our distinct national and cultural identities, our freedoms of religion, speech, and basic human rights? Surely you can understand why some of us don't want that? I'm all for unity with China, but the shit they're doing right now and the attitudes that seem to be held by a lot of mainland Chinese aren't helping the situation at all.
Gnial
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada907 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 10:16:47
September 06 2012 10:08 GMT
#18
@ epicanthic: Thank you very much for the response - it is exactly what I was looking for, although I have mixed feeling about what it means. If the students are willing to protest this intensely, this could have a big impact for me. However, you are right: Hong Kong has serious leverage. While the trade aspect of Hong Kong is something that could be preserved even in the event of a mass exodus, the financial industry is not. I hope some agreement may be found.

On September 06 2012 18:48 800800 wrote:
Hey OP what is your opinion on what is happening in Quebec? IMHO the protest is unnecessary. Quebec have the lowest tuition rate in all the province of Canada - even after the tuition hike. And it is like $1000~ increase over the course of 4 year. Instead of getting a job to pay for the thing they want, they decide to protest and complain unfair. The fun thing is some of them claim they're not spoil brat because they protesting in RL and not on the internet. Oh their stupidity...


This is off topic, so I won't give you an opinion. However, I will correct you because you do not understand the issue properly.

The Quebec students consider education to be an inalienable right - as does most of the world. In the rest of Canada it is considered the right of every person to have free education up until grade 12.

Imagine if the government all of a sudden forced all high school students to pay $1,000 per year. It is not much, but I bet you everyone would be angry because education for all is a value that we hold dear to our hearts, and it is a right that we want to bestow upon all people.

The Quebec students simply believe that it is the duty of society is to provide for post-secondary education. Thus, ANY increase is in violation of their right to education. They want it to be $0, and they are happy to pay for it with increased taxes when they are older.

For that reason, an argument comparing Quebec tuition to other tuition is not relevant. You must argue that the right to free education should end at grade 12 and not go further.

That is not an easy argument to make.
1, eh? 2, eh? 3, eh?
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
September 06 2012 10:11 GMT
#19
look at the filthy commies trying to beat down a free and mostly friendly people

we are proud to be chinese, but being chinese =/= being part of china
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
beesinyoface
Profile Joined May 2012
2450 Posts
September 06 2012 10:13 GMT
#20
Nice to see some fellow HK people here.

Pretty much summed up perfectly by epicanthic.
aaaaa
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