Hong Kong protests of "National Education" - Page 8

Shady Sands

United States4021 Posts

September 09 2012 12:13 GMT

#141

On September 09 2012 11:41 Citrustea wrote:

That's assuming the CCP lasts for 35 years. 35 years is a long time from now and nobody knows what's going to happen within those years.

Storm in a teacup, really though. The CCP is busy right now figuring out how to chop up the spoils of the past two decades of growth

Bippzy

United States1466 Posts

September 09 2012 12:26 GMT

#142

On September 07 2012 00:08 Shady Sands wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 07 2012 00:02 KwarK wrote:

On September 06 2012 23:16 Shady Sands wrote:

On September 06 2012 23:11 S_SienZ wrote:

On September 06 2012 23:05 Cambium wrote:

On September 06 2012 21:16 Shady Sands wrote:

On September 06 2012 20:45 shadymmj wrote:

On September 06 2012 20:09 epicanthic wrote:

On September 06 2012 19:25 Williammm wrote:
I disagree with your position. Name a single piece of history which isn't biased? There is no such thing as objectively sound history, because it is always going to be the interpretation of the person writing it. Secondly, it is hard to avoid other opinions of what happened in China, because information is as free in HK as it is in the rest of the Western world.
So your opposition of the scheme being brainwashing doesn't really make too much sense in a place like HK.

Also your prediction that people in HK will just flee China when the time came to completely convert the city into the Chinese system. It already happened prior to the 1997 handover, and what happened was people from the mainland coming down to fill the positions. Economic stability didn't change as Hong Kong is still the Asian centre for financial and accounting activities. You could argue that HK is worse off than it was prior to the handover, but I would point you towards the 1972 and 1988 stock crashes that severely lowered wages and increased unemployment that HK is still trying to recover from.

This is just news turned fox news turned pitchfork witching hunting

The people are great, everyone living in China are amazing individuals, but the Chinese government itself can go fuck itself (and then censor it out!). No offense to the people, plenty of offense to the government.

I beg to differ, I encounter a great many mainlanders who are rude, loud, lacking in social graces, boorish, tasteless, ignorant, and see the need to wear brand name clothing head-to-toe that shove logos in your face. Obviously not all of them are like this, I have a couple of mainland friends they are very decent people (although hardly average - they're more bohemian folks), but there are so many of the former that they tend to eclipse the latter.

Behavior like that is not limited to any particular ethnicity...

Obsession with brands is just a very Asian thing in general. I'm pretty sure Japan wins if we do an LV per capital comparison. lol...

Agreed, esp trophy wives with no job no kids and their husbands spend half their time away on business.

Once met a lady who had an entire apartment unit in Hong Kong as her fucking wardrobe.

On the flip side, these ladies are easy pickings if you have bedroom prowess and quick hands. I know of one particularly enterprising ex-banker who slept his way through a whole bunch of trophy wives while stealing/fencing all their shit. Then he reinvested the proceeds into drugs which he sold back to the wives... on top of filming them naked/drugged up so that when they found out about his habits, they couldn't do jack.

Most awesome i-banker exit opportunity I have ever come across. A pity he got arrested though

It's a pity that the drug dealer who seduced rich women in order to get them hooked on drugs so he could take their money and then blackmail them got arrested?

Because I was trying to meet him to pick up a mental snapshot. He would have made an excellent supporting character for the script I'm trying to write

You and quark just had the most ridiculous discussion ever. I laughed so hard at every post in the chain.

Anyhow, nationalism. Its a force for good and bad. I don't know that china will actually let up, oriental communist countries seem pretty regimented. The question really is what will happen to HK, and I have no idea

epicanthic

Hong Kong295 Posts

September 09 2012 12:57 GMT

#143

Still have to be wary about more subtle measures the CCP may take, like other people here have said already. But we still did it! Guess China really does care about the stability of the region, at least for now.

MattBarry

United States4006 Posts

September 09 2012 13:09 GMT

#144

So is the national studies class just a history class with a patriotic spin, because that sounds a lot like pre-highschool American history to me. Nothing wrong with being proud of your roots.

chisuri

Vietnam789 Posts

September 09 2012 22:13 GMT

#145

On September 09 2012 22:09 MattBarry wrote:
So is the national studies class just a history class with a patriotic spin, because that sounds a lot like pre-highschool American history to me. Nothing wrong with being proud of your roots.

America isn't a Communism country. It's different in Vietnam, China and North Korea. Trust me I have first-hand experience.

kakaman

United States1576 Posts

September 09 2012 22:23 GMT

#146

A picture says a thousand words...

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

September 09 2012 22:57 GMT

#147

On September 10 2012 07:13 chisuri wrote:

Show nested quote +

America isn't a Communism country. It's different in Vietnam, China and North Korea. Trust me I have first-hand experience.

What's different, though? When I first read this article I wasn't able to figure out what exactly China was trying to push in HK, either. Is it just a positive spin on the PRC's history?

PineapplePizza

United States749 Posts

September 09 2012 23:05 GMT

#148

Is it bad that I immediately tried to visualize what that picture would look like with a couple of tanks coming from the right side?

+ Show Spoiler +

How slanted IS Vietnam's history curriculum?

Also, is there any way HK could possibly use some kind of diplomatic mumbo-jumbo to weasel their way out of this deal? Perhaps a call for help to the rest of the world? I know that sounds dumb, but I don't know what their options are (I know nothing of this issue outside of what the OP posted)

...then again, the transfer is in 2047, so there's still time for the CCP to water down a bit.

Pulselol

Canada1628 Posts

September 09 2012 23:09 GMT

#149

As a Chinese-Canadian born in Canada, but spent quite a bit of my life in Hong Kong/Macau (both SARs), as well as a few stints in mainland China (I was around Asia quite a bit in my teens):

Hong Kong in particular has a very western look upon the world, thanks to the British colonization that has occurred.

Mainland China, on the other hand, has been as "chinese" to its core forever, valuing traditional concepts like conformism.

As most of you may have gathered from this thread or have lived in both areas, you realize that HK technically is China, but under a different set of laws and a completely different culture. China may want to change this, but in reality its not exactly a great idea (imo) for mainland China itself. As of right now, the region of HK is still relatively stable, and like any sovereign state, any attempts to "introduce" new "norms" would just cause ruckus, and since Hong Kong is still relatively "free," the rest of the world can see what's going on in the region, free from a suppressive government.

Ultimately, this puts China in a lose/lose situation. If they don't make what is technically a part of their country their "own," it makes them feel like they're weak. However, if they try to force HK to conform by force (both physical and political), then the rest of the world would look at them like tyrants.

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

September 09 2012 23:29 GMT

#150

The trend in the US is indeed against governments trying to impose cultural values upon individuals via education, but in Europe there is starting to be a backlash against multi-culturalism, driven by the need to assimilate large populations of immigrants with cultures very different from that of Europeans. The timing is not great for China to try to enact 'national education,' but it's hard to say how things are going to go in the future with regards to how the world sees these things.

ref4

2933 Posts

September 09 2012 23:51 GMT

#151

I was born in China but came to good ol' Murrica when I was 10. Best decision my parents ever made. The only good thing about the Chinese government is they get shit done unlike in America when you have a different party controlling the Congress, the Senate and the Presidency nothing ever gets done.

Oh and the American government isn't too much better either with Patriot Act and dem debts. But at the very least my internet isn't censored here

skindzer

Chile5114 Posts

September 10 2012 02:35 GMT

#152

On September 10 2012 07:23 kakaman wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

A picture says a thousand words...

Dunno, maybe that's low for chinese standards. keke

Zariel

Australia1308 Posts

September 10 2012 03:34 GMT

#153

I'm from HK, migrated to Australia when I was 3 (back in 1991).

The general population of HK tend to 'look down' on people from mainland China. Be it from how they behave in public, what they dress, their attitude to others, lack of general courtesy and the way they talk. It's kinda kept hush-hush amongst them because they don't want to be seen as discriminating. To foreigners, you probably cannot see the difference between a person from HK and a person from mainland China, to us, every little difference in detail sparkles.

How can a more developed country be influenced by a lesser developed country, even though it maybe the 'motherland'? HK would much rather learn off UK education standards than China's.

Sky101

United States1758 Posts

September 10 2012 04:04 GMT

#154

There was already a huge exodus in 1997 when Britain handed HK back to China. Many many HK people flocked to Canada/US/other countries. China wouldn't want a second wave.

Caihead

Canada8550 Posts

September 10 2012 04:28 GMT

#155

I would just like to remind people that looking down on a populace that's just trying to get by and improve their own standards of living and understand the outside world is separate from looking down on a corrupt governing structure. The former is arrogant bigotry and the latter is civil awareness.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

September 10 2012 04:36 GMT

#156

Think it would all depend on how transparent the curriculum development was made to the people and how much of a say voters there would have in altering or rejecting it.

Pretty dumb to make it a 2-12 grade length at inception. I mean that invites an "It's Brainwashing!" opposition. If they made it a 7-12 study and stressed the transparency of the development, they would have better chances.

jacen

Austria3644 Posts

September 10 2012 04:52 GMT

#157

On September 06 2012 19:26 Xpace wrote:
I haven't seen a single star in the sky for over 10 years in Hong Kong because of pollution from China.

Physics guy here:
That's not because of the pollution (from Shenzen) but from the light pollution in HK itself. Please argue your case cleanly, or you play into the hands of the people you want to argue against.

dUTtrOACh

Canada2339 Posts

September 10 2012 05:08 GMT

#158

Sounds like China wants Hong Kong to be a little less open-minded and "Western" and bring the youth back into line. No better way than to introduce propaganda to the curriculum. At least Hong Kong has the balls to stand up for themselves and give this the thumbs down.

Aterons_toss

Romania1275 Posts

September 10 2012 05:34 GMT

#159

If China simply screwed over Hong Kong it wouldn't be beneficial for both, is not like Hong Kong is swarming with natural resources or scientific developments. Hong Kong is an economic hub, a capitalist city in the purest sense of the word.
By assimilating it at an accelerated rate you make a lot of people leave = > economic instability = > you actually lost what mad HK so precious in the first place.

HK is one of the many examples of British colonies that were "let go" due to stupid people not realizing how much better off they are under the British "rule". Could they have kept HK with all the pressure from China... maybe ? If all of HK voiced there opinion against China, but you always find the dumb people that are pro leaving the UK influence.

Sometime they are made hero and the calamities caused by there stupidity only show 50 years latter when a country that was evolving stagnates in the 70s. Other times, like HK, there is no "important figure" that wants assimilation with China but i fell like the fact that the people of HK didn't stood up for there rights 15 years ago got back to them pretty damn soon.

Kimaker

United States2131 Posts

September 10 2012 05:38 GMT

#160

On September 07 2012 02:31 Endymion wrote:

Show nested quote +

do you want someone to fight a war??? everyone criticizes the US, Canada, and the EU for exerting influence on other cultures but as soon as the west has a contractual obligation to not intervene (HK is chinese territory by definition..) everyones feathers get roused.. 1. yes size matters, however HK is a huge economic asset so it would be worth keeping free, but 2. China isn't doing anything wrong, they control HK.. it's none of the West's business to intervene and fight China over HK, which is why the British Empire didn't do it 15 years ago

btw your individual rights are decided by the government that prevails in your region, they're not inherently given to you by being born.

Then they're not "rights" they're pieces of legislation, either de jure or de facto by tradition.

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