EPTIs Algebra Necessary? - Page 28
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Sovern
United States312 Posts
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
While not used directly in many career fields, Algebra is one of those qualifying courses that lets students realize their potential for more advanced maths used in aviation, electrical engineering, and other advanced sciences. Without making it mandatory, students who excel in it will never have a chance to realize their potential, and programs will never have the opportunity to discover their future candidates. Removing the course appeals to the laziness in people... If it is optional, most people will take the path of least resistance and avoid it. Algebra is not absolutely neccessary for everyone, but is absolutely comprehendable for everyone, if they aren't learning it they either aren't putting forth enough effort or the curriculum or method of education is poor. And the value it provides for, at very least mental stimulation and advanced problem solving, and at most qualifying more advanced math students, is superb. LONG LIVE ALGEBRA | ||
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Rumpus
United States136 Posts
Although at the same time, I am a proponent of "if your life doesn't require it, don't make them take it." I am engineer, why do I need to be well rounded in art and culture? I don't care and it doesn't help me. That stuff has always bothered me. There are some kids who will never have to paint a picture or memorize what happened in the Spanish-American War after the age of 17, don't waste their time and energy that can go towards what they like/excel at. | ||
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schben
Germany60 Posts
On July 30 2012 01:37 jakeyizle wrote: In Florida, students graduating in 2014 or later are required to have 4 years of math. 1 year which must be Algebra I or equivalent (such as a year in Algebra 1A and a year in Algebra 1B) and 1 year which must be geometry or higher (pre-calc, alg 2, calc, maybe probability & stats). Edit: students entering high school in 2012-2014 are required to pass Algebra 2 as well. Edit 2: this is a practice Algebra EoC exam (end of course exam, passing it is required to get credit) http://www.flvs.net/areas/studentservices/EOC/Documents/Practice Test for flvs_net_Final.pdf Sorry for being offtopic but how old are students that are taking this exam? | ||
micronesia
United States24773 Posts
On July 30 2012 00:41 paralleluniverse wrote: It's OK 90% of the thread is still on topic. Obviously the students should have some proficiency in symbolic manipulation before learning how to solve quadratics. But I fail to see your point. Do you have a better method? Originally you asserted that a trick like a song shouldn't be used to teach formulas. In an ideal situation I agree... better to have people come up with things than give it to them (although I would argue that if you are already giving a kid a formula for whatever reason, then a song is no better or worse than another memorization method). Here is the problem I have with your approach (and this is without going into the practical limitations as an actual teacher in a school): Kids who get completing the square will very possibly be better off dealing with quadratics than they would have been if you just gave them the quadratic formula itself after factoring was learned. However, kids who struggle with completing the square will have no way of solving quadratics (other than factoring). Should the kid not progress in their math career until they can complete the square? It's not necessary to understand where the quadratic formula comes from in order to be successful in math/life/work/college/etc. Remember, I agree that it's better to understand than to be given, but not always practical. I didn't learn completing the square until precalculus, unfortunately. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
" " ... it’s not easy to see why potential poets and philosophers face a lofty mathematics bar." What an appalling Op-Ed piece! Who the hell is this guy, and what makes him think he's qualified to opine on the subject of an appropriate education for philosophers?" Not that that part in particular matters too much to the argument in the piece, but it struck me as well. Has anyone linked this relevant xkcd yet? | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Enki
United States2548 Posts
I don't think the problem is Algebra, anyone can learn it if they really wanted to (and they should, I still think everyone could use knowledge for basic algebra). Not everyone enjoys having it shoved down their throat though. Saying it is too hard is just bullshit. HS students couldn't give a fuck less about Algebra for the most part, it's a problem of motivation and that's a hard problem to fix. | ||
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ZeGzoR
Sweden307 Posts
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Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
too many bad math teachers I thought there was a general consensus on them being by far the best teachers, though. Unless it's not the case in the U.S. ? | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:08 StarStrider wrote: If there is an excessive amount of dropouts from Algebra, the methods need to be reexamined. To consider eliminating the course because it is 'too hard' is the biggest load of bullshit. While not used directly in many career fields, Algebra is one of those qualifying courses that lets students realize their potential for more advanced maths used in aviation, electrical engineering, and other advanced sciences. Without making it mandatory, students who excel in it will never have a chance to realize their potential, and programs will never have the opportunity to discover their future candidates. Removing the course appeals to the laziness in people... If it is optional, most people will take the path of least resistance and avoid it. Algebra is not absolutely neccessary for everyone, but is absolutely comprehendable for everyone, if they aren't learning it they either aren't putting forth enough effort or the curriculum or method of education is poor. And the value it provides for, at very least mental stimulation and advanced problem solving, and at most qualifying more advanced math students, is superb. LONG LIVE ALGEBRA I feel like lots of people are misreading the article. Quoting from the end: Yes, young people should learn to read and write and do long division, whether they want to or not. But there is no reason to force them to grasp vectorial angles and discontinuous functions. Think of math as a huge boulder we make everyone pull, without assessing what all this pain achieves. So why require it, without alternatives or exceptions? Thus far I haven’t found a compelling answer. He's not saying that because its hard therefore we should eliminate it, people are turning into moral crusaders based on that simple misunderstanding. He's saying he doesn't think its necessary for people to go through training in Algebra if they won't end up using it meaningfully in their lives; and since it is obviously a huge stumbling block for many students according to the statistics and experts he cited, then it should clearly be reviewed for removal. If it were absolutely necessary, like long division and reading and writing, then he wouldn't bring this up. If people would simply read the article more carefully I feel like most of the uproar would die down and we could discuss the substantive issue of how algebra is used in our day to day lives. On July 30 2012 04:36 ZeGzoR wrote: Wow, some people dont get why they teach math in schools. Its not because the math stuff have use outside of class, its for developing logical thinking,,, Isn't the logical counter to this argument that math isn't the *only* subject that teaches logical thinking? I mean really, do you believe that you can't be logical if you don't learn math? Off the top of my head, what about philosophy class, or critical analysis of classic literature? Clearly you don't need math to learn how to think critically or logically; its just a useful tool towards that end. But if it largely teaches unnecessary things, then why not skip it and focus on things that are more relevant to students lives? Anyway I don't have any conclusive opinion on this issue, but it is good to review what is being taught and how useful it is. | ||
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
What I mean is that if your good at Algebra your most times good than not good at solving difficult problems in life if you apply what you have learned in life to it. That is why and only why I think learning that in high school (any part of your schooling) is really essential, because you can simply apply it later in life, on any part of your life. So, for me, learning at least basic Algebra or math or any type of problem solving programs is essential part of teaching in a young persons life. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
.. the degree requires work and practice. like starcraft who is good without practice.. so if they don't practice. they don't get the reward | ||
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nennx
United States310 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:36 Kyrillion wrote: I thought there was a general consensus on them being by far the best teachers, though. Unless it's not the case in the U.S. ? i dunno iirc my high-school math teachers were all pretty bad except one, and this was doing AP classes and all where you'd think teachers would be able to teach better. when i retook calc 2 at community college (and when i did later math at uni), i realized how shitty my high school math teachers were. you might be able to make the argument they were better than other high school teachers though, so i guess they "win" at being not the worst | ||
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DeadEyE X
United States23 Posts
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nennx
United States310 Posts
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On July 30 2012 03:57 docvoc wrote: It should be taught as a simple transative theory, A does B, B does C, so A does C. It should be taught in that kind of build up method rather than the way it is done now in most poorly taught schools which is a haphazard account of some parts of math and skipping the parts that may require some extra thought. What you're describing relates specifically to "sequential learners". These people learn best when there is a linear progression of the course material. Your appeal of A= B, B = C, so A = C is the logical progression best understood by "thinkers". As I mentioned before, this means global learners, "feelers", "sensors", and "perceivers" are at a natural disadvantage. This can be overcome with a lot of hard work and individual effort, but it is a whole lot easier to reach for the C and never think of it again. This thread seems to expect a lot out of teachers. I've been a guest science teacher for underpriviledged high school students and the job is overwhelmingly hard. You can be the best teacher in the world, but if your students don't care, no matter how good you are at motivating them, then there's truly nothing you, as the teacher, can do. Poor US performance in high school STEM fields is as much a reflectance apathetic high school students as ineffictive teaching. | ||
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Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:51 nennx wrote: i dunno iirc my high-school math teachers were all pretty bad except one, and this was doing AP classes and all where you'd think teachers would be able to teach better. when i retook calc 2 at community college (and when i did later math at uni), i realized how shitty my high school math teachers were. you might be able to make the argument they were better than other high school teachers though, so i guess they "win" at being not the worst Then I guess it's a country thing. | ||
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