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This is a tragic event. Let's not derail the thread with a gun control debate. Posts from page 9 onward will be moderated for steering the discussion towards gun control. |
On July 21 2012 03:17 Cylluus wrote:
I can't get over the fact that he was wearing full ballistics gear. What in the hell was he preparing for? And why in the hell did he surrender so easily?
Because a part of playing The Joker is to get apprehended, get thrown in an asylum and then break free.
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On July 21 2012 03:14 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:10 RoosterSamurai wrote:On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 20 2012 18:16 lost_artz wrote:
Did they at least kill the bastard?
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Post below answered question.
Should have shot them both dead. No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^. Guess how much lower their population is? ^_^ Guess much their repeat crime rate cares about the total population ^_^?
I don't know what you guys are talking about, but cut it out. You can use PMs to continue this pointless conversation.
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I stayed up all night listening to the scanner and news reports. This is disgusting. I really hope that the state of Colorado gives him the death penalty. We do not need these people to ever have the chance to kill again.
My thoughts go out to those families affected by this. I know my roommate grew up there, and he's been calling people all day 
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On July 21 2012 03:15 xrapture wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 20 2012 18:16 lost_artz wrote:
Did they at least kill the bastard?
--
Post below answered question.
Should have shot them both dead. No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^. Just like the dead victims get to rehabilitate, right?
Agree with this. Be sorry for the victims not the murderer.
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On July 21 2012 03:11 heroyi wrote:
Jesus fucking christ. A PhD pursuing medical student...
Does anyone know what the motives were?
Once I read the part where smoke cannisters were deployed and people thought it was part of the movie... No one was suspecting anything...wow
Well he is at about the age where Shizophrenia symptoms tend to crop up.
EDIT: Apparently, the normal age is around 19. So he'd have a later onset than normal.
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On July 21 2012 03:15 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:12 RetroAspect wrote:On July 21 2012 03:10 RoosterSamurai wrote:On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:
[quote]
No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? Still , there is a certain correlation.And don't get me started about your country's criminal statistics heh, but let's not discuss this In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^. Guess how much lower their population is? ^_^ RATE, he said repeat RATE. So things like absolute numbers (population) make no sense. Did you go to school? I went to school. Did you? You have to have criminals to have a crime rate, and you need to have a populace to have criminals. Norway has a population of roughly 5 million. The USA has a population of roughly 311 million. Of course we're going to have a higher repeat RATE.
Still, there is a correlation. And do not get me started about your country's criminal statistics heh. But let's not discuss this here
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On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 20 2012 18:16 lost_artz wrote:
Did they at least kill the bastard?
--
Post below answered question.
Should have shot them both dead. No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^.
I'm quite sure the repeat crime rate of violent, psychopathic murderers is higher in a country where they let them out instead of not letting them out.
Rehabilitation is fine for thieves and drug dealers. It's a waste of resources for cold blooded killers. Why don't you read The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson and find out what happened when "rehabilitated" violent murderers were deemed "cured" and let out of Oak Ridge.
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On July 21 2012 03:02 iGrok wrote:
Update from the police - Holmes was apprehended in the back of the theater by his vehicle. He had:
AR-15 Assault Rifle
Remmington 15 12-gauge shotgun
.40 cal Glock handgun
Second .40 cal Glock found in the car
71 people shot
12 deceased (10 on-site, 2 in hospitals)
Not looking for any other suspects, currently confident he acted alone. Full investigation to follow.
Body Armor included throat and groin protector (this is a lot of body armor for someone who just turned himself in - he was geared up for a full firefight.)
Not wanting to bring a debate here, but just for my information, how hard is it in Colorado to get an arsenal like that. I mean don't you need licenses and/or a lot of money?
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On July 21 2012 03:20 drew-chan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:02 iGrok wrote:
Update from the police - Holmes was apprehended in the back of the theater by his vehicle. He had:
AR-15 Assault Rifle
Remmington 15 12-gauge shotgun
.40 cal Glock handgun
Second .40 cal Glock found in the car
71 people shot
12 deceased (10 on-site, 2 in hospitals)
Not looking for any other suspects, currently confident he acted alone. Full investigation to follow.
Body Armor included throat and groin protector (this is a lot of body armor for someone who just turned himself in - he was geared up for a full firefight.) Not wanting to bring a debate here, but just for my information, how hard is it in Colorado to get an arsenal like that. I mean don't you need licenses and/or a lot of money?
Holy fuck that is an inventory. That stuff is NOT cheap at all unless Colorado sells them cheap... and all that body armour...why?
maybe he was expecting a gunfight. Would make sense considering he was in a state with no gun laws...didn't want someone go all vigilante on him
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That's actually insane that some people plan stuff like this out and follow through with it. Like an innocent 3 month old almost died...so fucked up. RIP to all those who died
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On July 21 2012 03:15 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 20 2012 18:16 lost_artz wrote:
Did they at least kill the bastard?
--
Post below answered question.
Should have shot them both dead. No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^. Just like the dead victims get to rehabilitate, right?
No dude - you can't guilt your way out of this argument. The dead victims, as far as I know, are still fucking dead as you so kindly pointed out to everyone. Thank you for your brilliant insight. I hope the guy gets the chance to live a better life. It will not happen - you needn't worry - but all of this "he should have been shot on sight" talk is just insane. If you honestly believe it should be up to you who lives and who dies you are just as insane as this guy and someone should be trying to rehabilitate you. You are AFRAID of what this guy did so you become ANGRY and HATE him. Later you realize that "gee, fuck this whole bitter revenge thing just keeps me focused on the wrong part of this tragedy - I sure wish I had been more focused on the victims instead of revenge" so you end up SUFFERING for it. Do you see what I'm getting at here.
To use the metaphor connected to this incident (for better or worse). Do you remember the Batman comic where Batman flays the Joker alive and then hangs him up in the Batcave and dips him in a vat of lemon juice? Neither do I.
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On July 21 2012 03:20 drew-chan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:02 iGrok wrote:
Update from the police - Holmes was apprehended in the back of the theater by his vehicle. He had:
AR-15 Assault Rifle
Remmington 15 12-gauge shotgun
.40 cal Glock handgun
Second .40 cal Glock found in the car
71 people shot
12 deceased (10 on-site, 2 in hospitals)
Not looking for any other suspects, currently confident he acted alone. Full investigation to follow.
Body Armor included throat and groin protector (this is a lot of body armor for someone who just turned himself in - he was geared up for a full firefight.) Not wanting to bring a debate here, but just for my information, how hard is it in Colorado to get an arsenal like that. I mean don't you need licenses and/or a lot of money?
The AR-15 he used wasn't actually an assault rifle. It was just a magazine-fed semi automatic rifle. He didn't really need any licenses to get any of the stuff except the tear gas. I may be mistaken, but I think any non-felon can buy body armor if they have the money.
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On July 21 2012 03:17 Cylluus wrote:
I can't get over the fact that he was wearing full ballistics gear. What in the hell was he preparing for?
...the possibility that someone in the audience might be armed as well? Since the mods don't want a gun law argument in this thread, I'll stop there.
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On July 21 2012 03:20 drew-chan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:02 iGrok wrote:
Update from the police - Holmes was apprehended in the back of the theater by his vehicle. He had:
AR-15 Assault Rifle
Remmington 15 12-gauge shotgun
.40 cal Glock handgun
Second .40 cal Glock found in the car
71 people shot
12 deceased (10 on-site, 2 in hospitals)
Not looking for any other suspects, currently confident he acted alone. Full investigation to follow.
Body Armor included throat and groin protector (this is a lot of body armor for someone who just turned himself in - he was geared up for a full firefight.) Not wanting to bring a debate here, but just for my information, how hard is it in Colorado to get an arsenal like that. I mean don't you need licenses and/or a lot of money?
I'm 21 living in California, and I'm pretty sure I could acquire all of these legally within 6 months or so (Permits, background checks, etc -someone correct me if I'm wrong). AR-15 is (iirc) a modified version of the military M-16 so it's quite deadly, but only semi-automatic. Fully automatic mods are illegal, but pretty easy to make/acquire from what I've heard.
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On July 21 2012 03:19 Cleomenes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:11 heroyi wrote:
Jesus fucking christ. A PhD pursuing medical student...
Does anyone know what the motives were?
Once I read the part where smoke cannisters were deployed and people thought it was part of the movie... No one was suspecting anything...wow
Well he is at about the age where Shizophrenia symptoms tend to crop up. EDIT: Apparently, the normal age is around 19. So he'd have a later onset than normal.
Spree killers who meticulously plan ahead don't tend to be paranoid schizophrenics, but rather narcissistic psychopaths.
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On July 21 2012 03:26 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:19 Cleomenes wrote:On July 21 2012 03:11 heroyi wrote:
Jesus fucking christ. A PhD pursuing medical student...
Does anyone know what the motives were?
Once I read the part where smoke cannisters were deployed and people thought it was part of the movie... No one was suspecting anything...wow
Well he is at about the age where Shizophrenia symptoms tend to crop up. EDIT: Apparently, the normal age is around 19. So he'd have a later onset than normal. Spree killers who meticulously plan ahead don't tend to be paranoid schizophrenics, but rather narcissistic psychopaths.
Yeah you don't go on a murder spree because you start to exhibit schizophrenic symptoms.
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On July 21 2012 03:20 drew-chan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:02 iGrok wrote:
Update from the police - Holmes was apprehended in the back of the theater by his vehicle. He had:
AR-15 Assault Rifle
Remmington 15 12-gauge shotgun
.40 cal Glock handgun
Second .40 cal Glock found in the car
71 people shot
12 deceased (10 on-site, 2 in hospitals)
Not looking for any other suspects, currently confident he acted alone. Full investigation to follow.
Body Armor included throat and groin protector (this is a lot of body armor for someone who just turned himself in - he was geared up for a full firefight.) Not wanting to bring a debate here, but just for my information, how hard is it in Colorado to get an arsenal like that. I mean don't you need licenses and/or a lot of money?
With no prior criminal record, it's just a matter of money and time.
Handguns are available in most countries.
AR-15 is the civilian version of the M-16. It cannot shoot in fully automatic mode.
Remmington Shotgun is available in many hunting stores.
I don't know colorado law specifically (having only lived here for 2 months), but all states have a minimum of a full background check and a waiting period (usually 3 days to a week) after applying to purchase before you are allowed to purchase a gun.
EDIT: The rumor that he dressed as the joker is not true.
Also, modding an AR-15 to be full auto is "easy" only if you are a master machinist.
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On July 21 2012 03:17 Cylluus wrote:
I can't get over the fact that he was wearing full ballistics gear. What in the hell was he preparing for? And why in the hell did he surrender so easily?
Could be any number of reasons. He could be just an idiot who saw it in a movie and figured thats what you do. He could have planned it that way so that he would be in total god mode and unkillable to heighten the thrill of control that he pretty obviously wanted.
If i had to guess, id say that like all "thrills", the pleasure is fleeting. Which means he probably got there, shot all those people , and then realized holy shit this isnt what i thought it was going to be. I seriously wouldnt doubt that the dude realized part way through that it wasnt as glorified and cinematic as he thought it would be, and just kind of gave up. Its like ordering a pizza that looks great on the commercial when you are starving but then you are there in the moment eating it and its not as great as youd thought and you kinda regret even buying the thing because your hunger is half gone anyways.
Another thing to consider, the dude is obviously mind controlled. Perhaps not by a person but by an ideal. He has a diminished sense of humanity. He believes that human life is worthless and he gets off on anarchy and fear. Also, if you read the reports, he pointed the gun at some peoples face but didnt fire. Which means to me that he likes the idea that there is no telling who will live or die and there is no order. Someone who gets off on that is a classic example of the mind of someone who has been mind controlled. In mind control experiments the slave is forced to witness horrific acts of torture and murder at random, with no cause or reasoning. This breaks their mind because biologically we want to detect a pattern. Believe it or not there is a biological sense of morality across all human cultures throughout time, in all societies. Its a survival tool.
I think once he got there and did it the spell of the thrill was broken.
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Here is 15 minutes of the police scanner chatter from during the shooting event:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d1_1342800958
Didn't listen to much of it, but I figured maybe some people would find this sort of thing interesting.
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On July 21 2012 03:20 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:07 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 03:04 Gatored wrote:On July 21 2012 03:00 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:53 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:50 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 21 2012 02:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 21 2012 02:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On July 20 2012 18:16 lost_artz wrote:
Did they at least kill the bastard?
--
Post below answered question.
Should have shot them both dead. No. How are you then any different from the guy who burst into the theatre and shot a bunch of people, dead? They'll almost definitely get life. That should be more than enough. A 24 year old has about 75 long years of suffering ahead of him in Max. Sec. If you police had killed him they would have been just as bad as he is? what am I reading? In cold blood - yes. If there had been necessity to defend themselves that would be understandable. But to say that you wish the police had just killed this guy when they found him is about one of the most horrible things I think you can come up with. Think about the families and loved ones of the victims - not about revenge. Haven't enough people died already? How will yet another death solve anything? No one wants there to be any more blood spilled. Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Theoden doesn't kill Grima. Hell, even Cary Elwes doesn't kill Prince John. A hero is not forged through rash decisions based on revenge, but by logical decisions made at awkward times in the face of extreme adversity. In my opinion as soon as you take another life without justification your own life is forfeit, that's fine if you disagree. Yes! And he will be given a sentence equal to multiple life sentences he will be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you have any idea what the other convicted mass murderers are going to do to a skinny white kid who shot a baby in the face? My guess is he doesn't even make it as long as Dahmer. Still - there is absolutely NOTHING healthy about wishing death on another human being. You know what I hope - and this may sound crazy - but I hope the guy gets rehabilitated, somehow gets the opportunity for parole (unlikely), makes it, gets out of prison and starts a new life somewhere. I'm glad you're not in charge. We don't need another mass murder on our hands if he were to get out again. And I read what you said, rehabilitation, yada yada yada. Can you ever truly know if a person has changed? The mind is a very complex thing. In Norway they rehabilitate their criminals instead of putting them in jail for X amount of time. Guess how much lower their repeat crime rate is ^_^? I'm glad people like me run the better systems in the world ^_^. I'm quite sure the repeat crime rate of violent, psychopathic murderers is higher in a country where they let them out instead of not letting them out. no shit sherlock
Rehabilitation is fine for thieves and drug dealers. It's a waste of resources for cold blooded killers. Why don't you read The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson and find out what happened when "rehabilitated" violent murderers were deemed "cured" and let out of Oak Ridge.
this has so many fallacies i dont know where to start
if you believe rehabilitation works, you have to apply it reasonably (factoring in risks, and costs and whatever) to every crime, you cant say its ok to try it out on drunk drivers or whatever but not on murderers.
firstly because it implies that the former is a victim-less crime, and secondly because it implies you dont believe rehabilitation works in the first place. and for those of you who cant read, yes im aware the 'risks' are higher when debating the case of releasing a murderer, but thats why i said factoring in the risks, as anyone who is a professional in this case would do.
secondly "why dont you read x" is always an annoying thing to hear. because 99% of books are just as one sided as the people who write them.
rehabilitation works, its been proven to work. does that mean a system of implementing it is instantly perfect? no. does that mean there will never be mistakes? no. but you have to weigh the pros and cons fairly and with as little emotional input as possible. saying because he killed x number of people its impossible to help him or that its not worth helping him is idiotic. locking him up forever wont bring those people back, costs a lot of money and doesnt help anyone. now im not arguing to let everyone out of jail tomorrow or whatever but, especially in america, these 'deterrents' do not work.
you only have to look at the usa prison population, while having very harsh sentencing, to see that throwing people in jail doesnt fix any problems.
i dont even know why im responding to this conversation because it wont force anyone here to reevaluate what they think they know about crime and punishment but demanding this guy be put to death or whatever wont solve your problems, maybe he cant be helped but none of us here are in a position to make that call. even though i feel the people who are put in a position to do so will make the wrong one, and we will just see another death from this tragedy.
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