I really think pulling the trigger has the intent of murder. No normal person charges at you, if you point a gun at him. Secondly you dont have a chance to pull a gun in a one on one fist fight. there just 2 chance you are winning or the guy lets go of you. Just my 2 cent.
Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 126
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spaZps
52 Posts
I really think pulling the trigger has the intent of murder. No normal person charges at you, if you point a gun at him. Secondly you dont have a chance to pull a gun in a one on one fist fight. there just 2 chance you are winning or the guy lets go of you. Just my 2 cent. | ||
bugser
61 Posts
I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium. (warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe | ||
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:28 farvacola wrote: Hmm, this inconsistency seems pretty egregious, but I'm not sure how the jury will interpret it. Will it amount to one amongst many strikes to Zimmerman's credibility, or is this merely the poor memory of a scared little fat man? Hard to say. I don't see how it's THAT big of a deal imo. I think if I was involved in a similar event in the heat of the moment and shortly after I'm not going to have exactly perfect memory/recall of what I did, even if I think I do. IE: Maybe I thought I should check this guys hands, but I forget to, however the thought is so strong I believe it is actually a fact. Dunno, just throwing it out there. I don't see how the events after Trayvon's death play any role in figuring out what transpired up until that point. I guess the only purpose it serves is to posit that if he is lying about this one thing then maybe we shouldn't believe his version of events for what happened leading up to Trayvon's death. I personally feel that is a weak point and if I was a juror I wouldn't bite for a second. I don't belief failure to recall accurate details during a traumatic experience ruins someones credibility in the slightest. If anything it makes me support it more. If I was lying I wouldn't make up and insist on a story that is wrong and easily disprovable. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I don't see how it's THAT big of a deal imo. I think if I was involved in a similar event in the heat of the moment and shortly after I'm not going to have exactly perfect memory/recall of what I did, even if I think I do. IE: Maybe I thought I should check this guys hands, but I forget to, however the thought is so strong I believe it is actually a fact. Dunno, just throwing it out there. I don't see how the events after Trayvon's death play any role in figuring out what transpired up until that point. I guess the only purpose it serves is to posit that if he is lying about this one thing then maybe we shouldn't believe his version of events for what happened leading up to Trayvon's death. I personally feel that is a weak point and if I was a juror I wouldn't bite for a second. I don't belief failure to recall accurate details during a traumatic experience ruins someones credibility in the slightest. If anything it makes me support it more. If I was lying I wouldn't make up and insist on a story that is wrong and easily disprovable. Mistaking little things like "left hand/right hand" "taller than me/same height as me" etc... are something I'd consider egregious. I fiddled with the body when I didn't is a pretty big one to me. | ||
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:44 dAPhREAk wrote: in assessing credibility, "lies" are not as important to me as "lies" concerning relevant factors. i dont understand why it matters whether he splayed the hands or not after the fact, and thus, i am not as concerned that he "lied" about it. i am likely missing something though. was he just checking for a weapon? why would he splay the hands? that's the part that gets me, it sounds like a weird mistake to make. Like, if he said "dry humped his leg a bit" or something. It's that kind of weird and random. Why would he say something that off the wall? | ||
FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:38 bugser wrote: He was pretty big for a "kid". I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium. (warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though. In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult. | ||
farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:53 FallDownMarigold wrote: He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though. In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult. In fact, a tall, lanky individual would be at a distinct disadvantage in a grapple with someone shorter and stockier. Whether or not it came down to a wrestling match, though, I'm not so sure. | ||
LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:46 Thieving Magpie wrote: that's the part that gets me, it sounds like a weird mistake to make. Like, if he said "dry humped his leg a bit" or something. It's that kind of weird and random. Why would he say something that off the wall? Which is why it seems more likely that it is simply a case of mistaken memory (happens all the time, sometimes I think it's a surprise when my wife and I actually remember something exactly the same way) rather than some conspiracy to cover up the fact that he murdered the kid. Anyway, I agree with the other poster that this really isn't a salient point. I think if this minutia is a focus of the prosecution it just goes to show how weak their case really is (I think it's pretty weak). | ||
m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:54 jeremycafe wrote: I am going to respond to both of you. "I would like to know what you would do if a man is following you at night?" I have been in a situation where I felt I was being followed by someone late at night. I didn't turn back to fight, I ran away and went straight home. For you to say only one person had the means to kill is pure ignorance. You really think no one has died from solely being punched? How about the referrer that recent died from one punch from a teenage soccer player? Not to mention a head being banged against a hard surface. Both had a means to kill. If Zimmerman wasn't armed, this MAY have been a reversed situation. We don't know. In the end of the day, Zimmerman did not MURDER someone. This is what this case is about. Zimmerman killed a person, and based on the evidence so far presented NOTHING has shown he had intent to kill prior to being attacked. That is all that matters in this case. Wow. Just wow. Are you really comparing one single teenager punching a guy to a whole fricking soccerteam chasing and lynching a referee? Really? I'm completely open to a discussion or argument, but not if you just start spewing bullshit without actual knowledge. And believe me, that incendent was discussed quite alot, not only in the netherlands. You have the means to kill if you hold a gun. Period. I would argue that you also have the means to kill by driving a car. But to argue that a teenager was "armed with a concrete sidewalk" is idiotic, sorry. Based on that, you could say that there was never a death to an unarmed civilian, because there's ALWAYS a way to kill someone. It's just that one of these two guys had a tool that was purposely built to kill, i have no idea how someone can even argue about who has the responsibilities here, there's a middle aged guy with a gun, and a teenager "armed with a concrete sidewalk" (/facepalm). On who do you think is that kill? I'm not talking about murder. I don't know if he murdered him, but he killed him. Without reason, i might add. Being punched is NOT a reason to kill. I'm sorry if that comes off agressive, but what you're trying to do, is twisting facts. Or lying, if i would think you did so intentionally. Yeah, there is a chance of being killed in a fistfight. It's more likely to get hit by lightning though, especially if you think about how many people are ->not<- getting killed in fistfights. edit As a sidenote, that referee died to headinjuries due to being repeadetly kicked against the head, in soccershoes, from at least half a soccerteam. After being chased(!) by that soccerteam from the "stadium" to the townsplace. | ||
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:53 FallDownMarigold wrote: He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though. In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult. zimmerman got fat. trayvon: The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43] zimmerman: Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′7″ (1.70 m); and his weight as 185 lb (84 kg) on his Seminole County Sheriff's Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012, the date of his arrest.[60] Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′8″ (1.73 m); and his weight at 200 lb (91 kg) on the Sanford Police Department Offense Report for February 26, 2012, the night of the shooting.[61] so, anywhere from a 25-50 lb. difference in weight, and a 3" to 5" height difference, with trayvon being taller and skinnier. i imagine zimmerman is under a lot of stress as it looks like he gained 40-60 lbs since the incident. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:55 LaughingTulkas wrote: Which is why it seems more likely that it is simply a case of mistaken memory (happens all the time, sometimes I think it's a surprise when my wife and I actually remember something exactly the same way) rather than some conspiracy to cover up the fact that he murdered the kid. Anyway, I agree with the other poster that this really isn't a salient point. I think if this minutia is a focus of the prosecution it just goes to show how weak their case really is (I think it's pretty weak). I don't think its conspiracy at all. But if you can't remember if you fiddled with the dead body or not, how do we trust your statements of events? | ||
bugser
61 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:59 dAPhREAk wrote: zimmerman got fat. trayvon: The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43] zimmerman: Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′7″ (1.70 m); and his weight as 185 lb (84 kg) on his Seminole County Sheriff's Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012, the date of his arrest.[60] Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′8″ (1.73 m); and his weight at 200 lb (91 kg) on the Sanford Police Department Offense Report for February 26, 2012, the night of the shooting.[61] so, anywhere from a 25-50 lb. difference in weight, and a 3" to 5" height difference, with trayvon being taller and skinnier. i imagine zimmerman is under a lot of stress as it looks like he gained 40-60 lbs since the incident. Oh wow, I was not aware he weighed that much now. I actually wrote what I wrote under the assumption that Zimmerman was around 20-30 pounds heavier. 40-60 additional pounds of weight gain sounds like very serious stress for Zimmerman indeed. Hopefully he is healthy and stable enough to get through the long ordeal ahead | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote: No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon. His word is that he was acting in self defense. The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense. | ||
m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote: No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon. Since i'm not sure. Guy pointed out that none of Zimmerman's blood or DNA was found on Trayvon's body, clothing, or under his nails. Zimmerman's gun also didn't have any of Trayvon's blood or DNA, he said. I read that, what did i miss that people are still talking about the "fact" that he was brutalized? I'm trying to read up on it objectively, but either these quotes are bs, or you are talking about stuff that actually didn't happen. Could someone help with that? -.- | ||
stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote: His word is that he was acting in self defense. The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense. Says the guy typing on the internet and not exposed to the evidence. It hasn't even all been presented by the prosecution yet. Internet jurors abound. I can just imagine you watching the livestream and fulfilling your closed mind every time a piece of evidence is exposed that you feel makes GZ a guilty man. You're going to feel like an idiot if the evidence leads to this being a case of self-defense in trial. | ||
bugser
61 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote: His word is that he was acting in self defense. The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense. What makes you believe Trayvon was acting in self defense when he doubled back and ambushed Zimmerman? | ||
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote: His word is that he was acting in self defense. The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense. And if Trayvon Martin were on trial and charged with a crime, whether he was acting in self defense would be relevant. However, since he is dead, it is completely irrelevant whether Martin was acting in self-defense. What is relevant is whether Zimmerman was acting in self-defense. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:12 m4inbrain wrote: Since i'm not sure. I read that, what did i miss that people are still talking about the "fact" that he was brutalized? I'm trying to read up on it objectively, but either these quotes are bs, or you are talking about stuff that actually didn't happen. Could someone help with that? -.- I didn't realize that travyon was so clean of blood for having supposedly brutalized someone. | ||
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