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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 126

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
spaZps
Profile Joined December 2012
52 Posts
June 25 2013 17:33 GMT
#2501
I am no amrican citzen. I acuttly would be offened, if this dude comes away with less, then murder. Firstival in a 1on1 fistfight, most of the time your life is no imiadate threat. Its most of the time just, when a bunch of people gang up on you and get them kind of bloodthrist.
I really think pulling the trigger has the intent of murder. No normal person charges at you, if you point a gun at him. Secondly you dont have a chance to pull a gun in a one on one fist fight. there just 2 chance you are winning or the guy lets go of you. Just my 2 cent.
bugser
Profile Joined June 2013
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 17:38:17
June 25 2013 17:38 GMT
#2502
He was pretty big for a "kid".

I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium.

(warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
June 25 2013 17:41 GMT
#2503
On June 26 2013 02:28 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:08 dAPhREAk wrote:
Zimmerman trips over Trayvon’s arms and hands

The first day of opening statements and formal testimony in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, covered a lot of ground in eight hours on Monday. But the prosecution zeroed in on something that has fascinated me for one day shy of a year: Trayvon’s hands. In his powerful opening statement outlining the “tangled web of lies” in the case against Zimmerman, Florida Assistant State Attorney John Guy told the jury, “He said that after he shot Trayvon Martin, he got on top of Trayvon Martin. On his back. And he took his arms and he spread them out. That didn’t happen.”

Zimmerman told Sanford police officers that tidbit about Trayvon’s arms twice. The first time was when he was interviewed by detectives the night of the shooting. The second time was during a reenactment of the events the day after the killing, which I detailed last year.

“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up.

Guy’s confidence in saying “that didn’t happen” about Zimmerman moving Trayvon’s arms rests on two pieces of evidence. One we’ve all known about. Another we didn’t — or at least I didn’t.

“The first two officers to Trayvon Martin’s body found him exactly like the defendant left him — face down, his hands clutching his chest,” Guy told the jury. This is the evidence we’ve known from almost the very beginning. Sanford Police Officer Ricardo Ayala wrote in his report of the scene that he “noticed that there was, what appeared to be a black male…laying face down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body.”

Yesterday, Guy revealed that a neighbor took a cellphone photo of Trayvon’s body before the police arrived that rainy Feb. 26, 2012, night. Trayvon’s arms were underneath his body, Guy told the court.

The defense tried to cast doubt on the prosecution’s focus on Trayvon’s hands. After his knock-knock debacle, Don West attempted to cast doubt on the state’s talk about the lack of Zimmerman’s or Trayvon’s DNA on the victim’s hands or under his fingernails. He said it was because the hands weren’t bagged and the evidence might have been lost to the rain. When your job is to cast reasonable doubt, that’s a novel explanation. And yet, there’s no explanation yet for the discrepancy for Trayvon’s hands.

Don’t think of the Zimmerman case as a whodunit. We know who did it. Instead, think of it as a giant puzzle, one where we know what the complex picture looks like but we don’t know how all the pieces fit together. The biggest pieces for me right now involve Trayvon’s arms and hands. And the state has made it clear that Zimmerman’s statements and the evidence just don’t fit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/06/25/zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

Hmm, this inconsistency seems pretty egregious, but I'm not sure how the jury will interpret it. Will it amount to one amongst many strikes to Zimmerman's credibility, or is this merely the poor memory of a scared little fat man? Hard to say.

I don't see how it's THAT big of a deal imo. I think if I was involved in a similar event in the heat of the moment and shortly after I'm not going to have exactly perfect memory/recall of what I did, even if I think I do. IE: Maybe I thought I should check this guys hands, but I forget to, however the thought is so strong I believe it is actually a fact.

Dunno, just throwing it out there. I don't see how the events after Trayvon's death play any role in figuring out what transpired up until that point. I guess the only purpose it serves is to posit that if he is lying about this one thing then maybe we shouldn't believe his version of events for what happened leading up to Trayvon's death. I personally feel that is a weak point and if I was a juror I wouldn't bite for a second. I don't belief failure to recall accurate details during a traumatic experience ruins someones credibility in the slightest. If anything it makes me support it more. If I was lying I wouldn't make up and insist on a story that is wrong and easily disprovable.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 25 2013 17:43 GMT
#2504
On June 26 2013 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:28 farvacola wrote:
On June 26 2013 02:08 dAPhREAk wrote:
Zimmerman trips over Trayvon’s arms and hands

The first day of opening statements and formal testimony in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, covered a lot of ground in eight hours on Monday. But the prosecution zeroed in on something that has fascinated me for one day shy of a year: Trayvon’s hands. In his powerful opening statement outlining the “tangled web of lies” in the case against Zimmerman, Florida Assistant State Attorney John Guy told the jury, “He said that after he shot Trayvon Martin, he got on top of Trayvon Martin. On his back. And he took his arms and he spread them out. That didn’t happen.”

Zimmerman told Sanford police officers that tidbit about Trayvon’s arms twice. The first time was when he was interviewed by detectives the night of the shooting. The second time was during a reenactment of the events the day after the killing, which I detailed last year.

“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up.

Guy’s confidence in saying “that didn’t happen” about Zimmerman moving Trayvon’s arms rests on two pieces of evidence. One we’ve all known about. Another we didn’t — or at least I didn’t.

“The first two officers to Trayvon Martin’s body found him exactly like the defendant left him — face down, his hands clutching his chest,” Guy told the jury. This is the evidence we’ve known from almost the very beginning. Sanford Police Officer Ricardo Ayala wrote in his report of the scene that he “noticed that there was, what appeared to be a black male…laying face down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body.”

Yesterday, Guy revealed that a neighbor took a cellphone photo of Trayvon’s body before the police arrived that rainy Feb. 26, 2012, night. Trayvon’s arms were underneath his body, Guy told the court.

The defense tried to cast doubt on the prosecution’s focus on Trayvon’s hands. After his knock-knock debacle, Don West attempted to cast doubt on the state’s talk about the lack of Zimmerman’s or Trayvon’s DNA on the victim’s hands or under his fingernails. He said it was because the hands weren’t bagged and the evidence might have been lost to the rain. When your job is to cast reasonable doubt, that’s a novel explanation. And yet, there’s no explanation yet for the discrepancy for Trayvon’s hands.

Don’t think of the Zimmerman case as a whodunit. We know who did it. Instead, think of it as a giant puzzle, one where we know what the complex picture looks like but we don’t know how all the pieces fit together. The biggest pieces for me right now involve Trayvon’s arms and hands. And the state has made it clear that Zimmerman’s statements and the evidence just don’t fit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/06/25/zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

Hmm, this inconsistency seems pretty egregious, but I'm not sure how the jury will interpret it. Will it amount to one amongst many strikes to Zimmerman's credibility, or is this merely the poor memory of a scared little fat man? Hard to say.

I don't see how it's THAT big of a deal imo. I think if I was involved in a similar event in the heat of the moment and shortly after I'm not going to have exactly perfect memory/recall of what I did, even if I think I do. IE: Maybe I thought I should check this guys hands, but I forget to, however the thought is so strong I believe it is actually a fact.

Dunno, just throwing it out there. I don't see how the events after Trayvon's death play any role in figuring out what transpired up until that point. I guess the only purpose it serves is to posit that if he is lying about this one thing then maybe we shouldn't believe his version of events for what happened leading up to Trayvon's death. I personally feel that is a weak point and if I was a juror I wouldn't bite for a second. I don't belief failure to recall accurate details during a traumatic experience ruins someones credibility in the slightest. If anything it makes me support it more. If I was lying I wouldn't make up and insist on a story that is wrong and easily disprovable.


Mistaking little things like "left hand/right hand" "taller than me/same height as me" etc... are something I'd consider egregious. I fiddled with the body when I didn't is a pretty big one to me.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 25 2013 17:44 GMT
#2505
in assessing credibility, "lies" are not as important to me as "lies" concerning relevant factors. i dont understand why it matters whether he splayed the hands or not after the fact, and thus, i am not as concerned that he "lied" about it. i am likely missing something though. was he just checking for a weapon? why would he splay the hands?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 25 2013 17:46 GMT
#2506
On June 26 2013 02:44 dAPhREAk wrote:
in assessing credibility, "lies" are not as important to me as "lies" concerning relevant factors. i dont understand why it matters whether he splayed the hands or not after the fact, and thus, i am not as concerned that he "lied" about it. i am likely missing something though. was he just checking for a weapon? why would he splay the hands?


that's the part that gets me, it sounds like a weird mistake to make.

Like, if he said "dry humped his leg a bit" or something. It's that kind of weird and random. Why would he say something that off the wall?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 17:54:19
June 25 2013 17:53 GMT
#2507
On June 26 2013 02:38 bugser wrote:
He was pretty big for a "kid".

I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium.

(warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe

He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though.

In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18846 Posts
June 25 2013 17:55 GMT
#2508
On June 26 2013 02:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:38 bugser wrote:
He was pretty big for a "kid".

I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium.

(warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe

He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though.

In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult.

In fact, a tall, lanky individual would be at a distinct disadvantage in a grapple with someone shorter and stockier. Whether or not it came down to a wrestling match, though, I'm not so sure.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
June 25 2013 17:55 GMT
#2509
On June 26 2013 02:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:44 dAPhREAk wrote:
in assessing credibility, "lies" are not as important to me as "lies" concerning relevant factors. i dont understand why it matters whether he splayed the hands or not after the fact, and thus, i am not as concerned that he "lied" about it. i am likely missing something though. was he just checking for a weapon? why would he splay the hands?


that's the part that gets me, it sounds like a weird mistake to make.

Like, if he said "dry humped his leg a bit" or something. It's that kind of weird and random. Why would he say something that off the wall?


Which is why it seems more likely that it is simply a case of mistaken memory (happens all the time, sometimes I think it's a surprise when my wife and I actually remember something exactly the same way) rather than some conspiracy to cover up the fact that he murdered the kid.

Anyway, I agree with the other poster that this really isn't a salient point. I think if this minutia is a focus of the prosecution it just goes to show how weak their case really is (I think it's pretty weak).
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 18:00:11
June 25 2013 17:56 GMT
#2510
On June 26 2013 00:54 jeremycafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 00:48 m4inbrain wrote:
On June 26 2013 00:41 jeremycafe wrote:
On June 26 2013 00:30 KwarK wrote:
He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control. He probably did shoot the guy in self defence, focussing on the incident ignores the issue that you've got morons with guns. Stupid people are always going to create situations they cannot manage and make problems they didn't anticipate and it's a weakness of American society akin to letting toddlers use grown up scissors. But if you're going to give people that kind of responsibility then they need to know that when they choose to carry a gun then they are choosing to potentially let things escalate into a lethal scenario and understand that they will be accountable for how they use it. If you cannot trust yourself to only ever use a gun on people who absolutely need to die then don't carry a gun. If you choose to carry a gun then you are responsible for the decision to escalate situations you cannot control into potentially lethal situations and if you fuck up then it's on you.


"He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control."
He did have training. A patrol officer was sent to give a course on watch programs on Zimmerman's Request. He also took proper firearms training to obtain a license.

Zimmerman wasn't the only person who made a bad decision that night. They both made decisions that resulted in what happened. Zimmerman should have stayed back and observed, not followed. Martin should have just gone home. He shouldn't have double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn't start a fight, he was trying to follow someone to give details to the police. He never had intent to fight or interact with Martin.

Like I said, they both made mistakes. Don't go overboard with your statements. It is easy for people to say he was way out of line when we don't live in the same shitty area he lived in. That is not what is in question in this case.


Wrong. Maybe both made wrong decisions, but only one had the means to kill and because of that, HAS to be smarter. If he isn't, it's on him.

But that's what weapons do. Give you a (wrong) feeling of safety, nothing can happen to you right? And that's exactly what happens. A gun "forces" people to make the wrong decisions, because they can't handle the responsibility that comes with a gun/that kind of power. And that is exactly what happened here, at least in my mind.



I am going to respond to both of you.

"I would like to know what you would do if a man is following you at night?"
I have been in a situation where I felt I was being followed by someone late at night. I didn't turn back to fight, I ran away and went straight home.

For you to say only one person had the means to kill is pure ignorance. You really think no one has died from solely being punched? How about the referrer that recent died from one punch from a teenage soccer player? Not to mention a head being banged against a hard surface. Both had a means to kill. If Zimmerman wasn't armed, this MAY have been a reversed situation. We don't know.

In the end of the day, Zimmerman did not MURDER someone. This is what this case is about. Zimmerman killed a person, and based on the evidence so far presented NOTHING has shown he had intent to kill prior to being attacked. That is all that matters in this case.


Wow. Just wow. Are you really comparing one single teenager punching a guy to a whole fricking soccerteam chasing and lynching a referee? Really? I'm completely open to a discussion or argument, but not if you just start spewing bullshit without actual knowledge. And believe me, that incendent was discussed quite alot, not only in the netherlands.

You have the means to kill if you hold a gun. Period. I would argue that you also have the means to kill by driving a car. But to argue that a teenager was "armed with a concrete sidewalk" is idiotic, sorry. Based on that, you could say that there was never a death to an unarmed civilian, because there's ALWAYS a way to kill someone. It's just that one of these two guys had a tool that was purposely built to kill, i have no idea how someone can even argue about who has the responsibilities here, there's a middle aged guy with a gun, and a teenager "armed with a concrete sidewalk" (/facepalm). On who do you think is that kill?

I'm not talking about murder. I don't know if he murdered him, but he killed him. Without reason, i might add. Being punched is NOT a reason to kill.

I'm sorry if that comes off agressive, but what you're trying to do, is twisting facts. Or lying, if i would think you did so intentionally. Yeah, there is a chance of being killed in a fistfight. It's more likely to get hit by lightning though, especially if you think about how many people are ->not<- getting killed in fistfights.

edit

As a sidenote, that referee died to headinjuries due to being repeadetly kicked against the head, in soccershoes, from at least half a soccerteam. After being chased(!) by that soccerteam from the "stadium" to the townsplace.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 25 2013 17:59 GMT
#2511
On June 26 2013 02:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:38 bugser wrote:
He was pretty big for a "kid".

I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium.

(warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe

He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though.

In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult.

zimmerman got fat.

trayvon:

The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43]

zimmerman:

Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′7″ (1.70 m); and his weight as 185 lb (84 kg) on his Seminole County Sheriff's Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012, the date of his arrest.[60] Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′8″ (1.73 m); and his weight at 200 lb (91 kg) on the Sanford Police Department Offense Report for February 26, 2012, the night of the shooting.[61]

so, anywhere from a 25-50 lb. difference in weight, and a 3" to 5" height difference, with trayvon being taller and skinnier.

i imagine zimmerman is under a lot of stress as it looks like he gained 40-60 lbs since the incident.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 25 2013 17:59 GMT
#2512
On June 26 2013 02:55 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 26 2013 02:44 dAPhREAk wrote:
in assessing credibility, "lies" are not as important to me as "lies" concerning relevant factors. i dont understand why it matters whether he splayed the hands or not after the fact, and thus, i am not as concerned that he "lied" about it. i am likely missing something though. was he just checking for a weapon? why would he splay the hands?


that's the part that gets me, it sounds like a weird mistake to make.

Like, if he said "dry humped his leg a bit" or something. It's that kind of weird and random. Why would he say something that off the wall?


Which is why it seems more likely that it is simply a case of mistaken memory (happens all the time, sometimes I think it's a surprise when my wife and I actually remember something exactly the same way) rather than some conspiracy to cover up the fact that he murdered the kid.

Anyway, I agree with the other poster that this really isn't a salient point. I think if this minutia is a focus of the prosecution it just goes to show how weak their case really is (I think it's pretty weak).


I don't think its conspiracy at all. But if you can't remember if you fiddled with the dead body or not, how do we trust your statements of events?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
bugser
Profile Joined June 2013
61 Posts
June 25 2013 18:09 GMT
#2513
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
June 25 2013 18:10 GMT
#2514
On June 26 2013 02:59 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:
On June 26 2013 02:38 bugser wrote:
He was pretty big for a "kid".

I would be terrified if this guy had me pinned to the ground and was walloping my cranium.

(warning dead body photo) http://imgur.com/GylcVoe

He was small compared to Zimmerman in terms of mass. In a grappling situation a tall lanky and wiry person does not necessarily have an advantage over a shorter, stronger, bulkier, more massive person. I think Zimmerman had a significant weight advantage. Martin had a reach advantage. I don't think they squared up and traded punches like boxers though.

In any case I am just adding that while Martin wasn't a little boy by any means as some early sensational stories claimed, he was not necessarily at an advantage due to his size vs. Zimmerman's size. Zimmerman is a pretty massive person, albeit short and plump. Grappling with and dominating a significantly larger and more developed/strong man is very difficult.

zimmerman got fat.

trayvon:

The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43]

zimmerman:

Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′7″ (1.70 m); and his weight as 185 lb (84 kg) on his Seminole County Sheriff's Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012, the date of his arrest.[60] Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′8″ (1.73 m); and his weight at 200 lb (91 kg) on the Sanford Police Department Offense Report for February 26, 2012, the night of the shooting.[61]

so, anywhere from a 25-50 lb. difference in weight, and a 3" to 5" height difference, with trayvon being taller and skinnier.

i imagine zimmerman is under a lot of stress as it looks like he gained 40-60 lbs since the incident.


Oh wow, I was not aware he weighed that much now. I actually wrote what I wrote under the assumption that Zimmerman was around 20-30 pounds heavier. 40-60 additional pounds of weight gain sounds like very serious stress for Zimmerman indeed. Hopefully he is healthy and stable enough to get through the long ordeal ahead
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 25 2013 18:11 GMT
#2515
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


His word is that he was acting in self defense.

The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
June 25 2013 18:12 GMT
#2516
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


Since i'm not sure.

Guy pointed out that none of Zimmerman's blood or DNA was found on Trayvon's body, clothing, or under his nails. Zimmerman's gun also didn't have any of Trayvon's blood or DNA, he said.


I read that, what did i miss that people are still talking about the "fact" that he was brutalized? I'm trying to read up on it objectively, but either these quotes are bs, or you are talking about stuff that actually didn't happen. Could someone help with that? -.-
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 18:15:52
June 25 2013 18:14 GMT
#2517
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


His word is that he was acting in self defense.

The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense.


Says the guy typing on the internet and not exposed to the evidence. It hasn't even all been presented by the prosecution yet.

Internet jurors abound. I can just imagine you watching the livestream and fulfilling your closed mind every time a piece of evidence is exposed that you feel makes GZ a guilty man. You're going to feel like an idiot if the evidence leads to this being a case of self-defense in trial.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
bugser
Profile Joined June 2013
61 Posts
June 25 2013 18:15 GMT
#2518
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


His word is that he was acting in self defense.

The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense.

What makes you believe Trayvon was acting in self defense when he doubled back and ambushed Zimmerman?
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 25 2013 18:16 GMT
#2519
On June 26 2013 03:11 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


His word is that he was acting in self defense.

The facts point me to believe Travyon is acting in self defense.


And if Trayvon Martin were on trial and charged with a crime, whether he was acting in self defense would be relevant. However, since he is dead, it is completely irrelevant whether Martin was acting in self-defense. What is relevant is whether Zimmerman was acting in self-defense.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 25 2013 18:16 GMT
#2520
On June 26 2013 03:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 03:09 bugser wrote:
No need to take his word on it. The witness who saw what happened before the shooting said Zimmerman was on his back being brutalized by Trayvon.


Since i'm not sure.

Show nested quote +
Guy pointed out that none of Zimmerman's blood or DNA was found on Trayvon's body, clothing, or under his nails. Zimmerman's gun also didn't have any of Trayvon's blood or DNA, he said.


I read that, what did i miss that people are still talking about the "fact" that he was brutalized? I'm trying to read up on it objectively, but either these quotes are bs, or you are talking about stuff that actually didn't happen. Could someone help with that? -.-


I didn't realize that travyon was so clean of blood for having supposedly brutalized someone.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
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