Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 125

You will blindly believe anything to go along with what you have already accepted as the events that took place. Zimmerman was walking around with a flashlight in his hands, not a gun. He dropped the flashlight near where the fight took place. 21 feet is plenty of space to fire a gun that is already loaded and has no safety. How can you say Martin was able to defend himself? He wasn't, which is why he resorted to his weapon.

On June 26 2013 01:13 Masq wrote:


Very few people are 'allowed to give orders'. You mother telling you not to stick your hand in fire isn't an order, its common sense. When your doctor tells you not to take X with Y medication, its not an order. When a 911 dispatcher tells you to do something, its for a reason.

Using that logic, if he was keeping a safe distance how did the kid engage him to physically attack him?

I thought the general consensus was that they couldn't prove whom was screaming? Additionally, wasn't it stated (originally from Zimmermans father) that it wasn't him screaming? You can't really say such a thing with any credibility.

Finally, why is Martin required to run away? Why didn't Zimmerman run away if Martin was going to engage him? You can flip that argument way too easily.

On June 26 2013 01:52 swiftazn wrote:


No offense but in regards to the 21 feet being plenty of space you are wrong. In the hands of a trained professional shooter even competition shooters 15 feet is impossible to draw and fire a loaded gun even without a safety when the opponent is bum rushing you. Having had personal experience with guns and other shooters + defense training courses and instructors 25-30 feet usually is the mark to get out a gun and fire it responsibly for a normal human being.

edit: if i misunderstood what you were saying sorry just got into the thred

On June 26 2013 01:52 swiftazn wrote:


No offense but in regards to the 21 feet being plenty of space you are wrong. In the hands of a trained professional shooter even competition shooters 15 feet is impossible to draw and fire a loaded gun even without a safety when the opponent is bum rushing you. Having had personal experience with guns and other shooters + defense training courses and instructors 25-30 feet usually is the mark to get out a gun and fire it responsibly for a normal human being.

edit: if i misunderstood what you were saying sorry just got into the thred

On June 26 2013 01:56 jeremycafe wrote:


May or may not be the case. But honestly it is not worth debating. We don't know if Zimmerman was bum rushed. My argument was that Zimmerman did not have his gun out, nor had intent to take it out until he had no other option.

On June 26 2013 01:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:


He's hoping that by saying the gun was not in Zimmerman's hands that Zimmerman shouldn't be considered armed while following a young black kid.

On June 26 2013 01:46 Masq wrote:
I listened to the dispatchers testimony yesterday, and I understand what he is legally required to say. I understand it wasn't an order. The point is he went against someone with whom he was seeking assist from. It shows intent.

On June 26 2013 01:59 dAPhREAk wrote:

intent to do what?

On June 26 2013 01:58 jeremycafe wrote:


When did I EVER say he wasn't armed? I stated he did not have his gun in his hands, like you stated. Are you really that dumb or just a blatant troll? You are starting to sound more like a troll. Thieving Magpie should be banned from this thread for creating false information in hopes to start arguments.

On June 26 2013 01:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:


We don't know his intent. We're talking about an armed man who followed a kid who lived in the neighborhood on his way home.

On June 26 2013 02:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:


Our discussion was on the fight that took place. I said that someone holding a gun would not be punching someone and hence would fit the evidence available. You said it's impossible because a flashlight was present. I disagree.

The first day of opening statements and formal testimony in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, covered a lot of ground in eight hours on Monday. But the prosecution zeroed in on something that has fascinated me for one day shy of a year: Trayvon’s hands. In his powerful opening statement outlining the “tangled web of lies” in the case against Zimmerman, Florida Assistant State Attorney John Guy told the jury, “He said that after he shot Trayvon Martin, he got on top of Trayvon Martin. On his back. And he took his arms and he spread them out. That didn’t happen.”

Zimmerman told Sanford police officers that tidbit about Trayvon’s arms twice. The first time was when he was interviewed by detectives the night of the shooting. The second time was during a reenactment of the events the day after the killing, which I detailed last year.

“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up.

Guy’s confidence in saying “that didn’t happen” about Zimmerman moving Trayvon’s arms rests on two pieces of evidence. One we’ve all known about. Another we didn’t — or at least I didn’t.

“The first two officers to Trayvon Martin’s body found him exactly like the defendant left him — face down, his hands clutching his chest,” Guy told the jury. This is the evidence we’ve known from almost the very beginning. Sanford Police Officer Ricardo Ayala wrote in his report of the scene that he “noticed that there was, what appeared to be a black male…laying face down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body.”

Yesterday, Guy revealed that a neighbor took a cellphone photo of Trayvon’s body before the police arrived that rainy Feb. 26, 2012, night. Trayvon’s arms were underneath his body, Guy told the court.

The defense tried to cast doubt on the prosecution’s focus on Trayvon’s hands. After his knock-knock debacle, Don West attempted to cast doubt on the state’s talk about the lack of Zimmerman’s or Trayvon’s DNA on the victim’s hands or under his fingernails. He said it was because the hands weren’t bagged and the evidence might have been lost to the rain. When your job is to cast reasonable doubt, that’s a novel explanation. And yet, there’s no explanation yet for the discrepancy for Trayvon’s hands.

Don’t think of the Zimmerman case as a whodunit. We know who did it. Instead, think of it as a giant puzzle, one where we know what the complex picture looks like but we don’t know how all the pieces fit together. The biggest pieces for me right now involve Trayvon’s arms and hands. And the state has made it clear that Zimmerman’s statements and the evidence just don’t fit.

On June 26 2013 01:59 dAPhREAk wrote:

intent to do what?

On June 26 2013 02:00 BigFan wrote:

guessing he means intent to kill although I dunno how not following advice and keeping tabs on someone is intent to kill lol

On June 26 2013 02:05 jeremycafe wrote:


I didn't say it was impossible because of the flashlight. I stated the evidence has suggested that he was in fact holding the flashlight and dropped it when the attack started. Holding a flashlight, cellphone, and gun out at the same time sounds a bit outrageous. Sure he could have put the phone away to take it out, but no evidence has suggested the gun was out, included the witness who saw him being attacked while on his back. You calimed he was walking around with a gun out, and assume that he had it in hand when the fight started. No, ZERO, evidence suggests that. If the gun was out, Martin would have gone after it, not straddle and beat his head in.

On June 26 2013 02:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:


It isn't difficult to hold a cellphone and flashlight in one hand. And its even less difficult to let go of a flashlight with one hand.

On June 26 2013 02:16 jeremycafe wrote:


You are trying to force a situation where no evidence supports it. I am done talking with you, I have better luck at talking the desk I am sitting at. It probably has more common sense than you do

On June 26 2013 02:28 farvacola wrote:

Hmm, this inconsistency seems pretty egregious, but I'm not sure how the jury will interpret it. Will it amount to one amongst many strikes to Zimmerman's credibility, or is this merely the poor memory of a scared little fat man? Hard to say.