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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:23 Enervate wrote: But it's not. The equivalent of demoiselle is damsel. The equivalent of mademoiselle is literally "My damsel" but more equivalent in meaning to "Ms." or "young lady". Damsel = little lady | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:27 Marou wrote: You make a good point here...showing how useless this change is T__T That's why I just don't get the fuss over that word -_- see my previous post for how it is used culturally. (aimed @ the others, cause you should know, being french and all xD) @ Jibba : demoiselle is not the same as mademoiselle in French. Demoiselle is little lady, "nice" term used for little girls, mademoiselle, I already told it previously. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:18 Nouar wrote: Actually, it is usually used according to the age... If you don't know the woman at ALL, let's say before 30, you would use mademoiselle as a deference/respect kind of term, with the meaning "young lady", and if older, if you want to be purely formal, "madame". It is not being used in the oral language purely as a marital status term. Most young women will laugh or get upset if you use "mademoiselle". It is just ankward and old fashioned lol. | ||
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Kolean.Tellan
Belgium217 Posts
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:29 Boblion wrote: Most young women will laugh or get upset if you use "mademoiselle". It is just ankward and old fashioned lol. Upset ? awkward ? old fashioned ? Lol no. They'd either correct us and tell us to say madame, either be glad cause it means they're young or just say nothing cause it's normal for them. Where do you live to say that lol ? It's nearly honorific, when you want to be courteous etc, it's not the least bit awkward >< Trust me, I deal with young french ladies all the time ;D I'd know if they hated it or were upset :D | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
It means "young lady". Shouldn't translate everything literally. Or taking a break could be very painful. | ||
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
As I said previously, I disagree that "miss" is equivalent to "little lady" I have (as well as most of the rest of my family, on both sides) always used "miss" when speaking to an unfamiliar woman, regardless of age. For instance, if the waitress who was serving me at a restaurant was a young woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?", and if she was an older woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?". Nobody has ever been offended by my use of the term "miss", no matter what age she may be. Given that an older woman would certainly be offended if I had called her "little lady", but not if I called her "miss", the terms are obviously (at least as far as all of my experiences, and the experiences of my extended family goes) not synonymous. And given that "miss" and "mademoiselle" are very similar (if not synonymous) terms, I find your interpretation, and the fact that you state it as fact, to be inaccurate. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:37 AIOL! wrote: I personnaly think no one will give a fuck about that stuff and everybody will keep callin mademoiselle the young girls !!! I don't see how i could call a 20 yo "madame", i can't do that ^^ Yeah, I got bashed by my 23yo banker when I first called her Madame :p | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:38 Golbat wrote: As I said previously, I disagree that "miss" is equivalent to "little lady" I have (as well as most of the rest of my family, on both sides) always used "miss" when speaking to an unfamiliar woman, regardless of age. For instance, if the waitress who was serving me at a restaurant was a young woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?", and if she was an older woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?". Nobody has ever been offended by my use of the term "miss", no matter what age she may be. Given that an older woman would certainly be offended if I had called her "little lady", but not if I called her "miss", the terms are obviously (at least as far as all of my experiences, and the experiences of my extended family goes) not synonymous. And given that "miss" and "mademoiselle" are very similar (if not synonymous) terms, I find your interpretation, and the fact that you state it as fact, to be inaccurate. Ma'am has actually replaced 'Miss' in most parts of the US, specifically because people get annoyed at it. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:30 Kolean.Tellan wrote: why oh why,? Mademoiselle one of the most beautifull words in the world imo. This. Fuck that, I'll just keep using it and it's equivalents. I have yet to meet a woman who was insulted by it. <3 Edit: LOL. Quote from my gf: "So when I move over there they'd call me Madame? I'd feel old and fat then." =D | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:34 Nouar wrote: Upset ? awkward ? old fashioned ? Lol no. They'd either correct us and tell us to say madame, either be glad cause it means they're young or just say nothing cause it's normal for them. Where do you live to say that lol ? It's nearly honorific, when you want to be courteous etc, it's not the least bit awkward >< Trust me, I deal with young french ladies all the time ;D I'd know if they hated it or were upset :D You really use it on a daily basis with every woman below 30 ? o,o | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:41 Jibba wrote: Ma'am has actually replaced 'Miss' in most parts of the US, specially because people get annoyed at it. I've always used ma'am and miss interchangeably. I'm from Florida, along with my mother's side of the family (southern states at least) and my father's side of the family is from New York, so I guess i've grown up with both. The main point i'm trying to make is that "miss" is not equivalent to "little lady". | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:43 Boblion wrote: You really use it on a daily basis with every woman below 30 ? o,o Well, yeah 0o Except in a very official kind of meeting (like the first time I saw my banker, be formal first, got corrected at once), but in the street, in a restaurant/bar (waitress), or to girls I know, to (fake :D) gallantry.... Yeah... basically yes. At work I use ranks in fact since I'm in the army, but overall when I don't really know someone, yes. Never got me into trouble. Madame is more respectful to an older woman when you want to be formal though, but it can be disrespectful to a younger one depending on her mood. | ||
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HereBeDragons
1429 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:47 Nouar wrote: Well, yeah 0o Except in a very official kind of meeting (like the first time I saw my banker, be formal first, got corrected at once), but in the street, in a restaurant/bar (waitress), or to girls I know, to (fake :D) gallantry.... Yeah... basically yes. At work I use ranks in fact since I'm in the army, but overall when I don't really know someone, yes. Never got me into trouble. Madame is more respectful to an older woman when you want to be formal though, but it can be disrespectful to a younger one depending on her mood. So do I, except with close friends, I address most women under 30 as mademoiselle (even-though they're older than me) because they give me funny faces as if I'm insulting them for looking old when I call them "madame". The exceptions are students (undergrads and below) will never do this, but in work settings (or internships), most people will. | ||
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Spieltor
327 Posts
I feel the whole "hiding or masking sexual identity or race or color for "equality"" thing to be a joke. Differences between one person and another always exist, denying differences and covering them up for the sake of PC is what generally harms people in the long run. Here's a reasonable question. if we're expunging the use of feminine traits, does that mean we're only allowing "male" or "neutral"? That sounds more like gender suppression than "equality". A lot of people don't think of it this way, even though that's what happens. Even the so called "Server" instead of "waiter/waitress". The word "server" implies male characteristics because the word itself is inherently masculine. Just like -to and -ta in Spanish. Language is inherently categorizing because the human mind is inherently a categorizing machine. How can this be a win for feminists? We always seem to want to play the gender card in the case of the culpability of males vs females for instance. There is a poll on http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5665921#5665932 and http://www.wnd.com/2006/03/35370/ For these kinds of things to stop being doubel standards would be either to treat females as harshly as males or to treat males as leniently as females. On February 28 2012 00:51 Parsistamon wrote: I think that official forms and documents is hardly the stuff of culture. I'm for it, such often unnoticed things can definitely have a psychological impact. those "official forms" exist because of culture and society. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:38 Golbat wrote: As I said previously, I disagree that "miss" is equivalent to "little lady" I have (as well as most of the rest of my family, on both sides) always used "miss" when speaking to an unfamiliar woman, regardless of age. For instance, if the waitress who was serving me at a restaurant was a young woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?", and if she was an older woman, I would say "Miss, could I get another glass of water?". Nobody has ever been offended by my use of the term "miss", no matter what age she may be. Given that an older woman would certainly be offended if I had called her "little lady", but not if I called her "miss", the terms are obviously (at least as far as all of my experiences, and the experiences of my extended family goes) not synonymous. And given that "miss" and "mademoiselle" are very similar (if not synonymous) terms, I find your interpretation, and the fact that you state it as fact, to be inaccurate. Yea, I mean Miss is perfectly fine colloquially. But on business cards and placards people usually use Ms. (and Ms is almost never pronounced without a last name. You can't be like "would you like some coffee, Miz?"). Miss isn't really appropriate for businesswomen imo. Less professional, which seems to be what this is about. And it sounds like that distinction is more significant in French. | ||
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Spieltor
327 Posts
you realize the biggest supporters of feminist movements in the 20's were the wealthy elite who owned businesses. and these people were typically the biggest bigots and racists behind closed doors (sometimes even in public) | ||
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Nyarly
France1030 Posts
Not saying this is a good or a bad thing, i really couldn't care less. But seeing homeless people dying in the cold streets and families getting destroyed by the racist Claude Guéant, i really think there are things that should been taken care of first. Also, as Booba said : "Ni pute ni soumise vont se réjouir ces sales connasses" | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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