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On February 28 2012 11:20 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
Well, in English it means the opposite actually, right?
We have to get rid of Mrs., and use Miss instead.
Or else it would be strange to call everyone Mrs.
Or maybe adapt the Madam? But its too formal.
Or use Lady? That'd be awesome.
Hello there, lady. LOL.
in english it does not mean the opposite. mademoiselle = miss, madame = mrs.
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I just want to reiterate what as been said before: it's not about the french language, nor the french culture, it simply is about official forms and state-related stuff. Social interaction will remain just the same.
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I agree with the Memo. There's much historical baggage that comes with lots of our words, and I think it unfair to simplify it down to a dictionary definition and act like that is all that it means. I think it is just outdated and useless.
I hope that English will follow suit and generalize the female titles to just one (or at least not have them based on marital status), like Mister is for males. Women shouldn't be expected to have to state their marital status, in the same way men shouldn't and don't.
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On February 28 2012 09:34 Paperplane wrote:
It's a bit silly to have 3 options on the gender field on a form.
There's also Name // Maiden Name.
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Cool to see the double standard improving, I guess... Nobody fights for us men though, what if I want to be a respected day care worker?
half joking 
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On February 28 2012 15:20 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:20 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
Well, in English it means the opposite actually, right?
We have to get rid of Mrs., and use Miss instead.
Or else it would be strange to call everyone Mrs.
Or maybe adapt the Madam? But its too formal.
Or use Lady? That'd be awesome.
Hello there, lady. LOL. in english it does not mean the opposite. mademoiselle = miss, madame = mrs.
If you read and understood my post and the context, "it" means the situation of what honorific to use in English.
To explain further, if we are faithful to the intention of the French memo, it means we remove "Miss" and use "Mrs." instead.
Hence the that's why I say "in English it means the opposite actually" because in English, if we are faithful to the intention of the memo, a problem arises if we remove "Miss" and instead use "Mrs" for obvious reasons.
Also, you are wrong in another instance again. "Madame" is not necessarily "Mrs." in French, it's just a way to address someone older than you, married or not, in a formal manner.
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On February 28 2012 00:55 Nothingtosay wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:14 Zren89 wrote:Wow, I know that after the fifties and sixties the Germans Kind of did the same thing with Fraulein Now its just Frau, no distinction. the homogenization of langauge, not just between languages and dialects, but even within the language as a whole (based on cultural shifts) is not really something new, what will be will be, either this will catch on with the population as a whole, and mademoiselle will go away and no one will say it much anymore (with the possible exception of more senior members of society, you know old people) regardless of what happens, its interesting to me that any government can mandate what should and should not be said by its citizens. I can't imagine that those two feminist groups speak for the vast majority when they lobby the govt of France. Interesting post, not sure what to think of it. On one hand, distinguishing between women on the basis of maritial status is a bit old-fashioned but I'm sure that it is also quite endearing (much like opening a door for someone of the opposite sex [a woman opened a door for me on a first date once, I was extremely flattered  ] or taking there coat) sometimes its just being polite, not alluding to the archaic idea that women are somehow inferior. It's a complex issue, and its still being worked out, I would appreciate updates as they happen. It would be very interesting to see how this affects peer relationships (if at all) in France. Aussi, Ca va bein! Et toi? You said either and then you only provided one option D:. It's bothering me T.T.
Fixed it in the Original sorry bout that
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On February 28 2012 07:57 Nevermind86 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:54 dAPhREAk wrote:
my french teacher told me that she liked being called mademoiselle (even though she is married) because it made her feel young. she also said to always use mademoiselle when I don't know the marriage status because females would prefer it to being called madame. Exactly the same with "señorita" in spanish. THEY LOVE being called like that when they're old or married, they love it, seriously. But feminism like politics sees an enemy in everybody and think that sloganeering and changing the language changes anything. Edit: My french prof also told me she loves being called mademoiselle. She's like 50 something kinda pretty for her age tbh ^^
Now that is an excellent point, changes in language can indeed precipitate changes in thought and idea but at the end of the day sometimes it really is just sloganeering :/
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i admit i only real the OP
what a waste of tax payers' money and time.
how does this change how women are TREATED?
thats what they're(you're) going for, right?
This does nothing for womens' rights, if anything this is a step backwards, women bitched for a YEAR (!!!) over this? And yea, i specifically use the word 'bitch' here. I'm not saying only women stress over pointless things, everyone does, and i hate them equally so, but labelling who you are AS you stress about something as pointless as this does nothing for the way others think of you.
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On February 28 2012 02:18 Nouar wrote:
[...] there is ANOTHER checkbox with the marital status, single, couple, married, divorced etc. This one is compulsory, whereas the madame/mademoiselle was a matter of what you'd like to see on the envelope when you are sent an official letter. It has no legal value.
Women had the choice,
This went kind of unnoticed, even though this a very important point. Legally, there is NO DIFFERENCE between "mademoiselle" and "madame". A woman can tick whichever box she wishes, married or not.
If having two choices for a woman and only one for a man was that big of a deal, why not change it into "gender : |_| male |_| female"? Which gets rid of the cultural connotations of "madame" and "mademoiselle".
Even though femisinist groups would probably get mad over the fact that "male" is the first option, thus implying a superiority of male over females.
And there would probably be a couple of transsexual right groups protesting in favor of a couple more options anyway...
But this is French feminist groups for you : angry men-haters bitching all day long about useless things. Gender equality is a joke in France. Of course, legally, there is no discrimination at all. But the glass ceiling is as strong as ever (and pretty low as well), women are waaaaayyyy underrepresenteed in politics, especially in the two major parties, and the list goes on...
But who cares?
Feminist groups spent a good year scratching each other's eyes out to determine if breastfeeding your child was conforming to centuries of degrading housetasks for women in our phallocracy, or was rather a proud display of accepting your own body and genetic attributes instead of succumbing to the pressure of our modern pornocracy that treats breasts as sex toys only, letting bottles do the job of feeding babies.
Who cares what is better for the little whining bastard? We are talking about feminist posture here!
And sadly, no, I am not even kidding...
Ps : on a side note, I LOVE the word "mademoiselle", and only use "madame" in formal contexts, unless I am corrected (which happens ). My friends actually feel old and wrinkled when adressed as "madame".
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Mademoiselle is in no way barred from common usage, but it doesn't really have a place on forms in a modern country.
Removing indications of marital status from official documents unrelated to it will have no affect on the ways people indicate their attraction to others.
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This is a perfect example of why feminism is just silly nowadays.
I mean, there was a time when there were actually some things to fight for.
Now it's basically just nip picking.
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EPT
