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On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road?
It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple
The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo
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On December 15 2012 04:44 sM.Zik wrote:
If nobody on earth would have guns, there would be no need to get guns in the first place.
And if nobody was a criminal, there would be no need for police, and we could lower taxes!
This is the real world, not some idealized fantasy. It would be awesome if we could avoid crime, poverty, disease, and everything else negative, but we can't. So it really comes down to this: Who deserves their life and freedom? The person who did nothing wrong, or the person willing to gamble another's life for their own betterment?
Sometimes, we don't have a choice, someone will inevitably create a situation where there is no option for "None of the above". When that happens, I'd rather see the criminal dead.
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On December 15 2012 04:43 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? Precisely why we have laws against drinking and driving. Any suspicious person indulging in driving can be pulled over and arrested for drunk driving. Unfortunately people cant be pulled over and arrested for carrying automatics near schools. Thanks for proving my point.
we have laws against Driving under the influence, but why is it still happening? Also, with the huge variety of guns you can obtain legally in Texas, why has there been very few shootings that occur in texas?
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On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo
There's sport shooting, hunting. Your same logic should mean we should get rid of all swords, including those used to train for Fencing, a well-established sport, because swords are intended to kill people.
Just because you don't choose to participate in a sport, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
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On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. There's gun crime elsewhere too. Of course, it's utterly ridiculous to get into the "what if" arguments of whether an armed civilian could have mitigated a situation. The answer is pretty blatantly "sometimes". The fact is, all other arguments aside, criminals in America own firearms. Even the ones who don't own firearms tend to work in groups, or use other potentially lethal weapons. Nothing is guaranteed to save your life in a potentially lethal situation. However, a gun is a great equalizer. I'm ex-Infantry, do martial arts to stay in shape, and I still own a handgun, and plan to get a CHL for it. In the meantime, I take advantage of the Texas Motorist Protection Act, and carry while driving, when it seems like the better option. Just recently, me and my wife bought something on Craigslist, for example. Worse side of town, carrying cash, had our toddler with us. You're goddamn right I had my 9mm in the truck with me, and loaded. It's not like every person who owns a gun uses it for crime. In fact, it's probably a paltry percentage. Plenty of law abiding citizens just feel better knowing they have the means to defend themselves and their families against bodily harm or worse, regardless of the situation. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. What really sickens me, though, is people who have never experienced crime or violence, who think it's some sort of moral high ground to sacrifice the well-being of the innocent on the altar of gun control. Do guns solve more problems than they create? I don't know, there's all kinds of statistics out there, and sifting through the muddle is insane. In a situation where the criminals are already armed, however, I can only imagine one response, and that's protecting my family. Does that make me some kind of sicko, just waiting to go all cowboy on someone? No. I've just seen the ugly side of reality. In my eyes, anyone who sets out to endanger others for their own gain is gambling their rights. The judicial system sees it the same way, prison is a denial of rights, to protect the well-being of society. It isn't vigilantism, it's prevention. Would we really rather see some guy in prison for killing three people than seeing one guy dead for trying to kill three people? If so, what the fuck has society come to, where the well-being of the criminal becomes more valuable than the well-being of the victim?
i think this post perfectly demonstrates how fucked up the situation in america is, you need to carry a gun around to feel safe? "land of the free"
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On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo
I go shooting quite often. My Dad fires his rifles quite often. Neither of us have ever shot another human being. I shoot cardboard and empty soda cans, my father hunts deer.
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On December 15 2012 04:49 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. There's gun crime elsewhere too. Of course, it's utterly ridiculous to get into the "what if" arguments of whether an armed civilian could have mitigated a situation. The answer is pretty blatantly "sometimes". The fact is, all other arguments aside, criminals in America own firearms. Even the ones who don't own firearms tend to work in groups, or use other potentially lethal weapons. Nothing is guaranteed to save your life in a potentially lethal situation. However, a gun is a great equalizer. I'm ex-Infantry, do martial arts to stay in shape, and I still own a handgun, and plan to get a CHL for it. In the meantime, I take advantage of the Texas Motorist Protection Act, and carry while driving, when it seems like the better option. Just recently, me and my wife bought something on Craigslist, for example. Worse side of town, carrying cash, had our toddler with us. You're goddamn right I had my 9mm in the truck with me, and loaded. It's not like every person who owns a gun uses it for crime. In fact, it's probably a paltry percentage. Plenty of law abiding citizens just feel better knowing they have the means to defend themselves and their families against bodily harm or worse, regardless of the situation. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. What really sickens me, though, is people who have never experienced crime or violence, who think it's some sort of moral high ground to sacrifice the well-being of the innocent on the altar of gun control. Do guns solve more problems than they create? I don't know, there's all kinds of statistics out there, and sifting through the muddle is insane. In a situation where the criminals are already armed, however, I can only imagine one response, and that's protecting my family. Does that make me some kind of sicko, just waiting to go all cowboy on someone? No. I've just seen the ugly side of reality. In my eyes, anyone who sets out to endanger others for their own gain is gambling their rights. The judicial system sees it the same way, prison is a denial of rights, to protect the well-being of society. It isn't vigilantism, it's prevention. Would we really rather see some guy in prison for killing three people than seeing one guy dead for trying to kill three people? If so, what the fuck has society come to, where the well-being of the criminal becomes more valuable than the well-being of the victim? i think this post perfectly demonstrates how fucked up the situation in america is, you need to carry a gun around to feel safe? "land of the free"
Yeah, I'm free to defend myself from criminals. There's plenty of other places where if someone decided to attack me, I'd be stuck with whatever capabilities I have in hand to hand, or whatever was lying around.
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On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family.
You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them.
I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any.
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On December 15 2012 04:18 Eps wrote:
The issue is also with gun culture and the odd belief that more guns makes the society safer. I find there's this really odd hero complex with gun owners, where they believe that one day a bad situation will happen to them - and they'll be armed and ready to deal with it. If you go on firearm forums and such, you'll find its prevalent everywhere.
On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. There's gun crime elsewhere too. Of course, it's utterly ridiculous to get into the "what if" arguments of whether an armed civilian could have mitigated a situation. The answer is pretty blatantly "sometimes". The fact is, all other arguments aside, criminals in America own firearms. Even the ones who don't own firearms tend to work in groups, or use other potentially lethal weapons. Nothing is guaranteed to save your life in a potentially lethal situation. However, a gun is a great equalizer. I'm ex-Infantry, do martial arts to stay in shape, and I still own a handgun, and plan to get a CHL for it. In the meantime, I take advantage of the Texas Motorist Protection Act, and carry while driving, when it seems like the better option. Just recently, me and my wife bought something on Craigslist, for example. Worse side of town, carrying cash, had our toddler with us. You're goddamn right I had my 9mm in the truck with me, and loaded. It's not like every person who owns a gun uses it for crime. In fact, it's probably a paltry percentage. Plenty of law abiding citizens just feel better knowing they have the means to defend themselves and their families against bodily harm or worse, regardless of the situation. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. What really sickens me, though, is people who have never experienced crime or violence, who think it's some sort of moral high ground to sacrifice the well-being of the innocent on the altar of gun control. Do guns solve more problems than they create? I don't know, there's all kinds of statistics out there, and sifting through the muddle is insane. In a situation where the criminals are already armed, however, I can only imagine one response, and that's protecting my family. Does that make me some kind of sicko, just waiting to go all cowboy on someone? No. I've just seen the ugly side of reality. In my eyes, anyone who sets out to endanger others for their own gain is gambling their rights. The judicial system sees it the same way, prison is a denial of rights, to protect the well-being of society. It isn't vigilantism, it's prevention. Would we really rather see some guy in prison for killing three people than seeing one guy dead for trying to kill three people? If so, what the fuck has society come to, where the well-being of the criminal becomes more valuable than the well-being of the victim?
Just had to point this out.
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On December 15 2012 04:51 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:49 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. There's gun crime elsewhere too. Of course, it's utterly ridiculous to get into the "what if" arguments of whether an armed civilian could have mitigated a situation. The answer is pretty blatantly "sometimes". The fact is, all other arguments aside, criminals in America own firearms. Even the ones who don't own firearms tend to work in groups, or use other potentially lethal weapons. Nothing is guaranteed to save your life in a potentially lethal situation. However, a gun is a great equalizer. I'm ex-Infantry, do martial arts to stay in shape, and I still own a handgun, and plan to get a CHL for it. In the meantime, I take advantage of the Texas Motorist Protection Act, and carry while driving, when it seems like the better option. Just recently, me and my wife bought something on Craigslist, for example. Worse side of town, carrying cash, had our toddler with us. You're goddamn right I had my 9mm in the truck with me, and loaded. It's not like every person who owns a gun uses it for crime. In fact, it's probably a paltry percentage. Plenty of law abiding citizens just feel better knowing they have the means to defend themselves and their families against bodily harm or worse, regardless of the situation. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. What really sickens me, though, is people who have never experienced crime or violence, who think it's some sort of moral high ground to sacrifice the well-being of the innocent on the altar of gun control. Do guns solve more problems than they create? I don't know, there's all kinds of statistics out there, and sifting through the muddle is insane. In a situation where the criminals are already armed, however, I can only imagine one response, and that's protecting my family. Does that make me some kind of sicko, just waiting to go all cowboy on someone? No. I've just seen the ugly side of reality. In my eyes, anyone who sets out to endanger others for their own gain is gambling their rights. The judicial system sees it the same way, prison is a denial of rights, to protect the well-being of society. It isn't vigilantism, it's prevention. Would we really rather see some guy in prison for killing three people than seeing one guy dead for trying to kill three people? If so, what the fuck has society come to, where the well-being of the criminal becomes more valuable than the well-being of the victim? i think this post perfectly demonstrates how fucked up the situation in america is, you need to carry a gun around to feel safe? "land of the free" Yeah, I'm free to defend myself from criminals. There's plenty of other places where if someone decided to attack me, I'd be stuck with whatever capabilities I have in hand to hand, or whatever was lying around.
you misunderstood my post. i mean that youre worried about being assaulted or attacked shows how bad things are, here in NZ i feel, as does everyone, perfectly safe walking around with no protection. our fucking cops dont even have guns.
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On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any.
i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk.
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On December 15 2012 04:54 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:18 Eps wrote:
The issue is also with gun culture and the odd belief that more guns makes the society safer. I find there's this really odd hero complex with gun owners, where they believe that one day a bad situation will happen to them - and they'll be armed and ready to deal with it. If you go on firearm forums and such, you'll find its prevalent everywhere.
Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. There's gun crime elsewhere too. Of course, it's utterly ridiculous to get into the "what if" arguments of whether an armed civilian could have mitigated a situation. The answer is pretty blatantly "sometimes". The fact is, all other arguments aside, criminals in America own firearms. Even the ones who don't own firearms tend to work in groups, or use other potentially lethal weapons. Nothing is guaranteed to save your life in a potentially lethal situation. However, a gun is a great equalizer. I'm ex-Infantry, do martial arts to stay in shape, and I still own a handgun, and plan to get a CHL for it. In the meantime, I take advantage of the Texas Motorist Protection Act, and carry while driving, when it seems like the better option. Just recently, me and my wife bought something on Craigslist, for example. Worse side of town, carrying cash, had our toddler with us. You're goddamn right I had my 9mm in the truck with me, and loaded. It's not like every person who owns a gun uses it for crime. In fact, it's probably a paltry percentage. Plenty of law abiding citizens just feel better knowing they have the means to defend themselves and their families against bodily harm or worse, regardless of the situation. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. What really sickens me, though, is people who have never experienced crime or violence, who think it's some sort of moral high ground to sacrifice the well-being of the innocent on the altar of gun control. Do guns solve more problems than they create? I don't know, there's all kinds of statistics out there, and sifting through the muddle is insane. In a situation where the criminals are already armed, however, I can only imagine one response, and that's protecting my family. Does that make me some kind of sicko, just waiting to go all cowboy on someone? No. I've just seen the ugly side of reality. In my eyes, anyone who sets out to endanger others for their own gain is gambling their rights. The judicial system sees it the same way, prison is a denial of rights, to protect the well-being of society. It isn't vigilantism, it's prevention. Would we really rather see some guy in prison for killing three people than seeing one guy dead for trying to kill three people? If so, what the fuck has society come to, where the well-being of the criminal becomes more valuable than the well-being of the victim? Just had to point this out.
When, exactly, was the last time you had someone try to kill you? For me, 2006. When's the last time you saw a neighbor get a ride in an ambulance because of a break-in? Twice in 2009.
When's the last time you had someone try to run you off the road to drag you out of your car and kick your ass for the crime of being in their way when they wanted to change lanes illegally? 3 months ago.
Not every person sees violent crime.
I don't consider it a hero complex to know I'm able to defend myself. I don't consider myself crazy to know situations get violent.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk.
Sometimes being there is "resistance". If you want to just get out? Good odds of going to the hospital. Saw it happen to another soldier in Colorado. His wife got dragged back into their apartment by her hair, he was in the hospital with broken arm and cracked ribs from a baseball bat. All they wanted to do was grab their baby and run out the door.
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On December 15 2012 04:45 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:14 Esk23 wrote:Guns aren't even close to the leading causes of death in the United States, in fact they aren't even in the top 10. Why doesn't anyone ever hear about these in the media: •Number of deaths: 2,437,163•Death rate: 793.8 deaths per 100,000 population •Life expectancy: 78.5 years •Infant Mortality rate: 6.39 deaths per 1,000 live births Number of deaths for leading causes of death:•Heart disease: 599,413 •Cancer: 567,628 •Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353 •Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842 •Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021 •Alzheimer's disease: 79,003 •Diabetes: 68,705 •Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692 •Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935 •Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htmFirearm homicides•Number of deaths: 11,493•Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm Oh, only 10k per year. WTF are you kidding that's still a lot! And furthermore, it's not like we AREN'T constantly trying to prevent deaths due to disease and other medical conditions and literally every item on that list, so why shouldn't we be trying to prevent deaths from firearm homicides?
We should try to prevent firearm homicides of course, but simply taking them isn't fixing the root of the problem. Instead of gunning people down, these mass shooters will probably go into bombing. Or ramming a car into a crowd of people. Taking the guns away won't make them any saner. You can have reasonable restrictions and background checks but that's about all you can do.
US has a major drug problem, more than a gun problem. And it seems to be getting worse with time.
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On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk.
Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? That's naive to the maximum and frankly pretty stupid.
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I wonder if the founding fathers would have worded their 2nd amendment somewhat differently if they had foreseen some of the purposes guns are used in the US for today.
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The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Serbia is 3,050,000 or 58.213 firearms per 100 people
Serbia is second on that list of 'guns per person' behind the US
Serbia has A LOT of fucked up people (wars ect.)
There are no school shootings in Serbia... You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a gun, and pass through a lot of checks
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Wait I dont understand, according to these people the reason these shootings happen is because of the lack of gun control, therefore places with more guns (i.e. the ghetto) would have a higher occurrence of these shootings right? I mean I personally live in the bronx and know several people that own guns. Yet for some reason we've never had shootings like these occur in low income areas? they seem to occur in well-off places and the people just seem to want to get their 15 minutes of fame.
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On December 15 2012 04:06 jalstar wrote:
any law banning guns would probably include a provision that you can keep any gun you owned before the ban, actually taking away people's guns is impossible.
That's how it is now afaik, I own several illegal weapons. However they were legal went I bought them.
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On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself?
Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense.
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EPT
