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On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
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On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US.
Zimmerman case. He thought Martin was a burglar. The kid is dead now.
You'd think the self-defence laws would make the society a safer place in the states. But..it's not. Neither is gun ownership. But that line of thought has been shoved down Americans throat through the NRA/gun lobbyists.
The USA should have the lowest crime rates in the world if any of that belief was true.
Every time there's a mass shooting. I read about how "if only a trained shooter was there with concealed carry, he'd be able to stop this" kind of bullshit is being parroted.
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On December 15 2012 05:11 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:08 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:49 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo There's sport shooting, hunting. Your same logic should mean we should get rid of all swords, including those used to train for Fencing, a well-established sport, because swords are intended to kill people. Just because you don't choose to participate in a sport, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Swords are meant to kill people.. I don't get your point, I just wanted to point out the difference between weapons and alcohol. Of course weapons can be used for sport... but there should be regulation... buying automatic military grade weapons is not normal, and should never be legal... under any circumstance Well now, most weapons have been military grade at some point. The M24 sniper rifle is a modified Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle. Now, do I agree that there should be sensible limitations regarding firearms? Absolutely, for example, they did a background check to make sure I'm not a violent criminal when I bought my pistol. Stuff like that, I applaud. Keeping certain levels of weaponry out of the hand of the average idiot, sure. But the fact is, there ARE non-violent uses for guns. Which was my entire point. You should have worded it differently if you wanted it taken differently.
Maybe I should have said the purpose of guns is to inflict damage? hmmm. I agree with you by the way.
Again as I said 58.2 guns per person in my country, we are right after America in the world in that regard, but much less violent deaths by guns per 100000 people.
Guns a strictly regulated here, any type of police record, and I mean any, no gun for you. Background checks, psychological tests, all this and more just to get the most simple gun license (for hunting). Hand guns and guns for personal (non sport) use are taxed... a lot
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On December 15 2012 05:17 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm. Maybe we just have smarter criminals  The majority of time, a thief will not want to hurt anyone. This is not because the thief is a nice person, but because they know that if they get caught they do not want to add assault charges to the thieving charges. Guns are difficult to obtain for UK criminals, but not impossible to obtain. They choose not to carry guns (most of the time). I remember a security van being robbed as it collected money from a bingo hall in London (I was across the street). The thieves were armed and shot the armed guards in the van (they did not die). On another occasion, I remember a group robbed many jewellery stores in the home counties before they were eventually caught. The thieves carried bats (not guns) because they knew that they would not be facing armed resistance, and they did not want to add firearms charges to their robbery charges (if they got caught). Lots of goods were stolen, but no on was hurt in any of the robberies.
your examples are bad and out of context because you are arguing against owning guns for defense of home with examples of stealing from companies
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On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US.
The result of self defense/stand your ground laws? States that have them have higher rates of homicide which contributes to an additional 500-700 deaths a year.
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On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism  But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death. Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm. The fuck is it with these arguments? The burglar wants money. He doesn't get money by killing you.
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/suspect-in-violent-break-in-busted
You can find countless other examples in the news if you actually try.
There are people who commit acts of violence upon breaking in, be it rape, assault, or whatever else. If nothing else, if they break in, here in Texas, they know I could own a firearm, at which point my very presence could constitute a potentially violent response, even if I was NOT armed. Thus, if they have the means to visit violence upon me preemptively, I would be surprised if they didn't, just to control the situation.
Now, if someone said "your house is going to be robbed in ten minutes" while I was out eating dinner, I'd stay out for a while, and let it happen, call the cops and insurance. That's common sense, keeping my family out of a dangerous situation.
However, if the dangerous situation comes to my family I'm going to protect them with any and all means at my disposal. If, somehow, you consider the life of a criminal to be worth more than that of myself, my wife, or my son, there's not even a point in trying to argue with you, because your outlook is utterly incomprehensible.
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On December 15 2012 05:20 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US. Zimmerman case. He thought Martin was a burglar. The kid is dead now. You'd think the self-defence laws would make the society a safer place in the states. But..it's not. Neither is gun ownership. But that line of thought has been shoved down Americans throat through the NRA/gun lobbyists. The USA should have the lowest crime rates in the world if any of that belief was true. Every time there's a mass shooting. I read about how "if only a trained shooter was there with concealed carry, he'd be able to stop this" kind of bullshit is being parroted.
Now youre just spouting bullcrap. what does zimmerman have to do with shooting someone who broke into your home while you were in it?
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On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm.
And that is why you are more likely to be killed by someone robbing you than us.
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On December 15 2012 05:21 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US. The result of self defense/stand your ground laws? States that have them have higher rates of homicide which contributes to an additional 500-700 deaths a year.
Source? Almost every state has a castle doctrine or something similar. We're talking about people breaking into your home, don't try to twist my words to make a point.
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On December 15 2012 05:20 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:11 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 05:08 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:49 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo There's sport shooting, hunting. Your same logic should mean we should get rid of all swords, including those used to train for Fencing, a well-established sport, because swords are intended to kill people. Just because you don't choose to participate in a sport, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Swords are meant to kill people.. I don't get your point, I just wanted to point out the difference between weapons and alcohol. Of course weapons can be used for sport... but there should be regulation... buying automatic military grade weapons is not normal, and should never be legal... under any circumstance Well now, most weapons have been military grade at some point. The M24 sniper rifle is a modified Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle. Now, do I agree that there should be sensible limitations regarding firearms? Absolutely, for example, they did a background check to make sure I'm not a violent criminal when I bought my pistol. Stuff like that, I applaud. Keeping certain levels of weaponry out of the hand of the average idiot, sure. But the fact is, there ARE non-violent uses for guns. Which was my entire point. You should have worded it differently if you wanted it taken differently. Maybe I should have said the purpose of guns is to inflict damage? hmmm. I agree with you by the way. Again as I said 58.2 guns per person in my country, we are right after America in the world in that regard, but much less violent deaths by guns per 100000 people. Guns a strictly regulated here, any type of police record, and I mean any, no gun for you. Background checks, psychological tests, all this and more just to get the most simple gun license (for hunting). Hand guns and guns for personal (non sport) use are taxed... a lot
I'm all for a sensible level of gun control. Unfortunately, our politics are so violently polarized, that sensible is off the table, it's either minimal, or excessive.
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On December 15 2012 05:21 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US. The result of self defense/stand your ground laws? States that have them have higher rates of homicide which contributes to an additional 500-700 deaths a year.
There is nothing wrong with killing in self-defense. MURDER is a different than killing.
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On December 15 2012 05:21 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting. Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US. The result of self defense/stand your ground laws? States that have them have higher rates of homicide which contributes to an additional 500-700 deaths a year.
Self defense is basically in every state I think. Stand your ground is not.
And these are both different than the Castle Doctrine.
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On December 15 2012 05:15 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death. LOL. You'd sit down and have a beer with a burglar in your own house wouldn't you? You actually respect or think burglars have any rights whatsoever when they violate others' rights by trying to rob them? Wow.
For hell sake, most robberies occur when there is no people inside the house, why do you think it works this way ? Killing instead of robbing will make you way more likely to get caught. What you do by having guns as self defense is forcing robbers to escalate their "intimidation" tools.
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I hope this shooting prompts the US government to do something. It's been 13 years since Columbine...
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On December 15 2012 05:25 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death. LOL. You'd sit down and have a beer with a burglar in your own house wouldn't you? You actually respect or think burglars have any rights whatsoever when they violate others' rights by trying to rob them? Wow. For hell sake, most robberies occur when there is no people inside the house, why do you think it works this way ? Killing instead of robbing will make you way more likely to get caught. What you do by having guns as self defense is forcing robbers to escalate their "intimidation" tools.
Again were talking about reality, not a fairy tale where people won't have guns.
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On December 15 2012 05:26 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:25 Godwrath wrote:On December 15 2012 05:15 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death. LOL. You'd sit down and have a beer with a burglar in your own house wouldn't you? You actually respect or think burglars have any rights whatsoever when they violate others' rights by trying to rob them? Wow. For hell sake, most robberies occur when there is no people inside the house, why do you think it works this way ? Killing instead of robbing will make you way more likely to get caught. What you do by having guns as self defense is forcing robbers to escalate their "intimidation" tools. Again were talking about reality, not a fairy tale where people won't have guns.
Why do you think they wear guns?
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On December 15 2012 05:25 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:15 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death. LOL. You'd sit down and have a beer with a burglar in your own house wouldn't you? You actually respect or think burglars have any rights whatsoever when they violate others' rights by trying to rob them? Wow. For hell sake, most robberies occur when there is no people inside the house, why do you think it works this way ? Killing instead of robbing will make you way more likely to get caught. What you do by having guns as self defense is forcing robbers to escalate their "intimidation" tools.
Criminals do not play fair also why would you allow someone to break into your home and take things you worked for and at the same time put your life and maybe others in danger?
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On December 15 2012 05:22 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm. And that is why you are more likely to be killed by someone robbing you than us.
Not necessarily. Criminals are cowards, usually they won't stand and fight you unless you're a 70 year old man.
On the other hand, that is why you are more likely to be robbed than us. We'd rather not live in fear where the criminals win and the good people lose.
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No.
User was warned for this post
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On December 15 2012 05:14 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:08 jinorazi wrote:the world would be a better place without guns, just like if there were nukes and whatnot. i'll feel comfortable some crackhead coming at me with a knife, more hesitant with a gun. however thats in a fairy tale world when compared to USA. to rid of guns in USA only harms law abiding citizens. there is no need to introduce guns in south korea, there is no need to introduce marijuana in korea because that is determined by the culture, USA and Korea are two different cultures that requires two different approach. trying to shove "gun control" ideas to americans will not work, not because of ignorance but because its understood. On December 15 2012 05:01 tomatriedes wrote:
I wonder if the founding fathers would have worded their 2nd amendment somewhat differently if they had foreseen some of the purposes guns are used in the US for today. weapons, swords or guns, were used for crime throughout human history...its not like guns were never used against innocent pre 1800s. you would not feel comfortable with a crackhead coming at you with a knife, who are you trying to fool?
its happened...though it was a butter knife and i was with a few buddies. i also been at gunpoint and its not a comfortable feeling.
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EPT
