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On June 30 2022 17:57 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote:
I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of. There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway. TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible.
Breivik wanted to do it this way initially, but he gave up. He were not able to get an assault rifle that way and he tried for a good amount of time. It probably is possible, but it's extremely far away from what almost everyone in Norway are able to do (e.i. the most focused terrorist in Norway who planned and worked with his plan for a long time weren't able to do it).
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On June 30 2022 18:06 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2022 17:57 r00ty wrote:On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote:
I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of. There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway. TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible. Breivik wanted to do it this way initially, but he gave up. He were not able to get an assault rifle that way and he tried for a good amount of time. It probably is possible, but it's extremely far away from what almost everyone in Norway are able to do (e.i. the most focused terrorist in Norway who planned and worked with his plan for a long time weren't able to do it).
I really hope it's that difficult in your country. My first thought is he may have lacked the criminal connections and wanted to stay under the radar.
It's really mostly career criminals. Drug, human and arms trafficking is often connected. The kinda crowd where a charge like possession of a weapon like that wouldn't matter much or think they need that kind of "protection". Also people that will throw you under the bus for any advantage they can get.
The last find i'm aware of in Germany was 2021 whith members of a well known kurdish arab clan in Berlin, who did every crime possible. They found 2 Uzis, an assault rifle and some semi-automatics.
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On June 30 2022 18:45 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2022 18:06 Neneu wrote:On June 30 2022 17:57 r00ty wrote:On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote:
I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of. There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway. TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible. Breivik wanted to do it this way initially, but he gave up. He were not able to get an assault rifle that way and he tried for a good amount of time. It probably is possible, but it's extremely far away from what almost everyone in Norway are able to do (e.i. the most focused terrorist in Norway who planned and worked with his plan for a long time weren't able to do it). I really hope it's that difficult in your country. My first thought is he may have lacked the criminal connections and wanted to stay under the radar. It's really mostly career criminals. Drug, human and arms trafficking is often connected. The kinda crowd where a charge like possession of a weapon like that wouldn't matter much or think they need that kind of "protection". Also people that will throw you under the bus for any advantage they can get. The last find i'm aware of in Germany was 2021 whith members of a well known kurdish arab clan in Berlin, who did every crime possible. They found 2 Uzis, an assault rifle and some semi-automatics.
It really is that hard, as my example of the most violent norwegian armed robbery in modern times illustrated. Some of those thirteen guys were the most professional (many of them were behind several unsolved high profile armed robberies) and highly connected criminals in Norway. They had connections everywhere and many of them were connected to the most feared criminal gang back then, Tveitagjengen. They still haven't found the money they stole, but it's widely accepted that it's being hidden by the mafia.
When they had messed up their robbery and there were a manhunt on them (although we didn't know exactly who all of them were yet), they threatened to kill the farmer who were hiding their guns (which were used on the crime scene), because he wanted to throw them into the ocean and get rid of the evidence. They had spent a lot of resources and a lot of time to get those guns, they would rather take the chance of the guns identifying them as the robbers by the police and used in court as evidence, than trying to get new ones for any future robberies.
That's how hard it is to get it illegally in Norway. It is way easier to get it legally, we do love our guns after all (personally I got my hunting license when I were 14, as a subject in high school). However, you need to qualify for it and there're tons of safety regulations.
All in all, I am very interested in how the shooter got his guns.
EDIT: Also fuck that guy.
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On June 30 2022 19:20 Neneu wrote:It is way easier to get it legally, we do love our guns after all (personally I got my hunting license when I were 14, as a subject in high school). However, you need to qualify for it and there're tons of safety regulations..
Yeah. You can get hunting rifles and shotguns for hunting, and in some strict cases, a low caliber pistol for trap-hunting birds, after passing the hunting license exam. You can also go the way of sports shooting, and be allowed to buy a pistol after 6 months of being an active member of a gun club (which includes participating in competitions), and a semi-automatic rifle after being an active member for 2 years, and regularly compete in national competitions (You can thank Breivik for the 2 year waiting period for that rifle btw. My local dynamic sports shooting club were thrilled).
For fully automatic rifles, the only legal way is currently to be a member of the Home Guard, and be part of a first response team (Not the more specialised Innsats-force, but rather some local areas have teams of people that live near objects that they want to defend quickly, and they are allowed to keep their guns fully functional at home, while the rest of us have to leave the bolt carrier assembly behind at base. They only started rolling this out a few years ago, and it's not being talked about very loudly for obvious reasons). But you have to be a pretty well trusted member for years for that to happen, and go through vigorous background checks, so not something most people can just choose to want to do.
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Yet another shooting in Scandinavia, this time in a shopping mall near the airport in Copenhagen, Denmark.
This seems even less likely to be politically motivated than the shooting in Oslo recently, but I feel worried that taking a weapon and attacking random people in a crowded place is becoming a trend for troubled individuals. Maybe ignoring these incidents in the media is the best way to avoid them in the future? Did the pandemic or pessimistic movements in society play a part in pushing some of these over the edge?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919
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I think the issue is largely that every single country seem to underfund the psychiatric departments. In Denmark specifically doctors have been yearning for a proper plan and funding for more than 2 decades, yet the politicians have ignored us. Isolation following COVID might have exacerbated the issue, but the problem is larger in scope than just that.
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EPT
